Dibs Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 Many of you seem to be thinking that I have doubts about Brady's guilt. I don't. I'm just saying that there is room for doubt..... ' I understood what you meant. What I have been saying is that there isn't any room for (reasonable) doubt. There is plenty of room for muddying the waters, but the crux of the situation shows that Brady's guilt is without doubt. There are two guys who are guilty of commiting the cheating act. Though they both say that Brady had nothing to do with it their text messages clearly implicate Brady as not only knowing about it, but actively directing it. What reasonable explanation is there to account for those texts being false or misleading? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan1959 Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 (edited) Just because Brady wanted balls deflated does not mean he wanted them underinflated. Also, while the report makes it clear that Brady knew Jastremski there is no evidence that Brady knew McNally. The report simply speculates that Brady knew McNally. Except for the texts from Jastremski to McNally specifically saying Brady mentioned McNally... Jastremski to McNally: "Talked to him last night. He actually brought you up and said you must have a lot of stress trying to get them done..." Edited May 7, 2015 by billsfan1959 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 Speaking of math ..... the math clearly shows that no guys were needed to lessen the PSI to below the legal limit; grade 10 physics, applied to mother nature conditions, assured this as so. Only if you have a rudimentary understanding of physics, which would lead you to believe that the volume of a football is a constant in the equation. It isn't. Even if someone were so misguided as to assume that, the assumption of filling a ball to the absolute minimum requirement in a 75-degree room, and then having it exposed to 51-degree air for an hour would only results in a maximum drop to approximately 11.4 psi. Every single ball tested was below that threshold. And that's without applying the real-world scenario that the volume isn't constant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevewin Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 i do not think that people put spy gate on brady, but instead of BB. That's the whole point and what burns me. The whole point of the taping to give you an advantage is to use the information gained real time during the game. Ie. Brady was the one who used and benefited from that information and was obviously a key player in the whole scheme. I have never understood why he has never been held accountable for that. It also goes to the whole "he is so great he didn't need to" argument which I absolutely hate. Perhaps his success is DUE TO the cheating. I have always said, imagine the scenario where for Brady's formative years at the QB position he went to the LOS and knew what defense was going to be called. Not only does it provide success in those moments, but it is the best training in the world to master the QB position over time - even if at some point the real time tip off info isn't there.. How many other mediocre QBs could become great with that advantage? To me, Brady's success is a direct product of the system of cheating he was a part of his entire career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DasNootz Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 My numerous Pats friends are in denial mode too, although one of the fair-minded ones (a corporate litigator at a leading firm and a peripheral follower) said something reasonable: "From what I can glean, the defense of Brady has to rest on the notion that he wanted balls deflated as close as possible to the legal minimum but that he never expressly told the equipment guys that it should be below the legal minimum." That makes sense, I think. As I said, I don't think this is an open-and-shut case. That is true - and indeed, it could be interpreted to read that Jastremski was a go-between between Brady and a guy he didn't know. Don't get me wrong - I think he's guilty. But there is some flimsiness in the report - which is why it signals "probably." The problem with that logic is that the balls were tampered with after the leagues inspection. Had that been Brady's defense, why would the ball boy lower the pressure after the league approved the balls... and why would the ball boy be given gifts from Brady. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pneumonic Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 Except for the texts from Jastremski to McNally specifically saying Brady mentioned McNally... Jastremski to McNally: "Talked to him last night. He actually brought you up and said you must have a lot of stress trying to get them done..." But, like much in this case, you are presuming ...... that Brady knew him by name. It's possible Brady only knew him as the guy who deflates the balls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 Your link you provided even says it. The Pats balls were to be set at 12.5. The Colts at 13.0 I just did and it proved what I said. The Pats balls were asked to be set at 12.5. The Colts at 13.0 I never argued about the Colts game, and I never have said that there is any real doubt about whether the Patriots as an organizational culture did this. I'm talking specifically about Brady's involvement. Honestly, while I think Brady should be suspended, I also think that the team shouldn't escape penalty. There was a culture within the team that allowed for this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plenzmd1 Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 I read the report. BTW, I am an EE and studied science Ad nauseam. BTW, I did a science breakdown on this matter in the "New England Patriots caught deflating balls" thread some time ago if you wish to see the math involved. As for the report, the issue with it that nullifies the validity of its scientific (used very loosely) conclusion is the small sample size of the Colts (4) footballs. I could easily chose a different 4 of the 11 Pats measurements and come to the conclusion that the drops are similar. I want to clear..are you saying that the average drop does not matter? I have not read the report cover to cover, has it been explained why only 4 balls of the Colts were measured? I am as far from a scientist / mathematician as one can get, so I tend to trust Nate Silver and his crew....are you saying they are missing something that would refute the conclusion that the " science " angle does not hold water....a conclusion that both the Wells report and the 538 crew came to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloHokie13 Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 I want to clear..are you saying that the average drop does not matter? I have not read the report cover to cover, has it been explained why only 4 balls of the Colts were measured? I am as far from a scientist / mathematician as one can get, so I tend to trust Nate Silver and his crew....are you saying they are missing something that would refute the conclusion that the " science " angle does not hold water....a conclusion that both the Wells report and the 538 crew came to? It states that they were running out of time before the 2nd half needed to start I believe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevewin Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 The problem with that logic is that the balls were tampered with after the leagues inspection. Had that been Brady's defense, why would the ball boy lower the pressure after the league approved the balls... and why would the ball boy be given gifts from Brady. And if it truly were the case why in the world wouldn't Brady just say that was the case from the beginning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Cubed Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 Except for the texts from Jastremski to McNally specifically saying Brady mentioned McNally... Jastremski to McNally: "Talked to him last night. He actually brought you up and said you must have a lot of stress trying to get them done..." And McNally testified that Brady knew him. It's in the report. But, like much in this case, you are presuming ...... that Brady knew him by name. It's possible Brady only knew him as the guy who deflates the balls. You sure you read the report? McNally testified that Brady knows who he is. It's not a play on words... He doesn't say he knows me as "the deflate guy". He says he knows who I am. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan1959 Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 But, like much in this case, you are presuming ...... that Brady knew him by name. It's possible Brady only knew him as the guy who deflates the balls. Jastremski and McNally are trading texts specifically about McNally getting the footballs exactly how Brady wants them. During those texts, Jastremski says Brady specifically mentioned McNally and that he must be stressed trying to get them done. Split hairs all you want....although, I do agree with you that Brady did know him as "the guy who deflates the footballs"...to a PSI outside the limits of the rules...and the only reason he would do that is because that is what Brady wanted. And McNally testified that Brady knew him. It's in the report. You sure you read the report? McNally testified that Brady knows who he is. It's not a play on words... He doesn't say he knows me as "the deflate guy". He says he knows who I am. Exactly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 Between Brady's father and his agent, am I the only one having flashbacks of Anthony Weiner trying to deny his sexting gig? The guy spent over a week in front of microphones and TV cameras, unabashedly denying that he would ever do something like that...just before finally admitting that yes, he had a problem texting his junk to young chicks. The Wells report is overwhelmingly clear, and yet the Brady camp is yelling he was framed? Best. Offseason. Ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigPappy Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 That is exactly what I was going to post!! They spent however many days on it and it is officially done the 1st business day after the draft. That doesn't seem questionable.... I'm actually okay with this. Next years 1st round pick for them will be much higher than this years due to the team falling apart from Brady's suspension of 4-6 games that i think he will get. I rather they lose a pick from the 18-25 range than the 31st or 32 pick. fwiw. Big Pappy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 (edited) I never argued about the Colts game, and I never have said that there is any real doubt about whether the Patriots as an organizational culture did this. I'm talking specifically about Brady's involvement. Honestly, while I think Brady should be suspended, I also think that the team shouldn't escape penalty. There was a culture within the team that allowed for this. At first I didn't think they should. Yesterday when all this came out. I thought that it showed that Belichick probably didn't know, and Brady did this all on his own and said as such on here (which also shows I am not just out to get the Pats and being unreasonable). Later on, people made a couple very good points about the fact that they should, and someone, I forgot who, convinced me to change my mind. That the culture, as you say, within the team allowed this. And Belichick's actions, in retrospect, probably influenced Brady's the Co-King's I can do whatever I want attitude and actions. You also said, I think, that the report didn't "prove" Brady did anything illegal but I think I proved beyond any doubt that he did. Edited May 7, 2015 by Kelly the Dog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wiz Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 (edited) Ummm, "the dude who deflates the balls must be under a lot of stress" I think you mean *puts on glasses* under pressure. Edited May 7, 2015 by The Wiz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 And McNally testified that Brady knew him. It's in the report. You sure you read the report? McNally testified that Brady knows who he is. It's not a play on words... He doesn't say he knows me as "the deflate guy". He says he knows who I am. I'm going to guess that pneumonic hasn't read it...for some reason, the posts have been nothing but blind support for the Patriots**** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan1959 Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 (edited) I'm going to guess that pneumonic hasn't read it...for some reason, the posts have been nothing but blind support for the Patriots**** I believe the term is "willful blindness" Edited May 7, 2015 by billsfan1959 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloHokie13 Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 I'm going to guess that pneumonic hasn't read it...for some reason, the posts have been nothing but blind support for the Patriots**** I started going down that road, but found it more entertaining to let him keep digging a hole with is official Patriots* shovel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 I did not read this as such in the report. As an aside, if this happened as you claim in the AFCCG then the PSI of the balls would have appreciably lower then they were checked in at. The temp and atmospheric conditions were such that the could explain the full under pressure condition on its own. Yes...if game time temperature was -75 F! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts