Deflate-gate investigation complete

[BuffaloHokie13]

Same here. It's bad enough they can send me emails all the time. Not a chance they are looking at my personal texts

That's not what they asked for. They allowed Tom's representation to sift through everything and only hand over texts and emails relevant to the investigation, he still declined.

Edited May 7, 2015 by BuffaloHokie13

[The Wiz]

which is fair enough (assuming they are good about crossing t's and dotting i's in setting it up) - but if the bills were first team to be subject to the sting, im sure you would be frustrated too. not saying it excuses behavior but discussing why the reaction is what it is from some.

Absolutely I would be frustrated but when evidence is that apparent I wouldn't go off my rocker trying to defend it. It's similar to when Lynch hit that girl with his car. I was skeptical and defended him but when the facts came out, wasn't much else I could do but accept it.

Edited May 7, 2015 by The Wiz

[Pneumonic]

Why didn't he turn over his texts/call log to them? The League said he didn't have to turn over his phone and were only interested in his communications on this matter and with those individuals--they were willing to let Brady and his lawyers do the record combing to come up with those, but he still said no. Similarly, why didn't the Pats* allow the interview of McNally about communications with Brady? In fact, they didn't even pass the request along to McNally or his lawyer.

 

Those are all the acts of the innocent, right? Also just have to love the smarmy "We good, bro" vibe of Brady to those guys after they got caught. Guys that clearly hated his guts before that, probably because he was such a jerk to them before he needed their cooperation.

 

I've read the Exec Summary of the report, and it takes a special kind of homer (read: delusional) to hold out any hope that his or her hero(es) were blameless here, from the top of the organization (Kraft (for refusal to fully cooperate) and Brady especially) to the bottom (those two schlubs who did the dirty work).

What's interesting is that I tried to share that on FB and the link doesn't work (it shows the wrong article). Not to sound conspiracy theorish, but I've never had that problem before. It linked to two different articles, too, in the two ways you can share on FB.

 

I have no idea how to answer your questions because I am not privy to the situation to know for sure. Neither are most fans who are reading the report which is why I contend any conclusion one makes is based entirely on speculation and conjecture.

 

As for handing over the cell .... maybe he's like me and, unless legally made to do so, would never make any of my personal info available to anyone .... especially a lawyer or my wife ;-)

 

I actually think Brady's toast in all of this. Right or wrong, the wording of the report concluded in such a way as to arm the league with all they need to administer punishment.

[NoSaint]

This wasn't the first sting. They were stung during Spygate as well.

i thought spy gate was an in the moment accusation, not something the league pre-planned. i could be wrong on memory.

That's not what they asked for. They allowed Tom's representation to sift through everything and only hand over texts and emails relevant to the investigation, he still declined.

i asked earlier and with the volume of posts, im not sure you saw/replied.

 

how would you feel if he turned over a couple texts but none were incriminating? would the next issue simply be "well why wont he let the investigator analyze it, why does it come from him, of course he wouldnt turn over something incriminating?"

 

if so, why even participate on that level?

[The Wiz]

i thought spy gate was an in the moment accusation, not something the league pre-planned. i could be wrong on memory.

 

i asked earlier and with the volume of posts, im not sure you saw/replied.

 

how would you feel if he turned over a couple texts but none were incriminating? would the next issue simply be "well why wont he let the investigator analyze it, why does it come from him, of course he wouldnt turn over something incriminating?"

 

if so, why even participate on that level?

I believe there were accusations prior from other teams and they caught them later.

[BuffaloHokie13]

i asked earlier and with the volume of posts, im not sure you saw/replied.

 

how would you feel if he turned over a couple texts but none were incriminating? would the next issue simply be "well why wont he let the investigator analyze it, why does it come from him, of course he wouldnt turn over something incriminating?"

 

if so, why even participate on that level?

I believe that the attorney's turning over the text/email logs would have come with a statement from the attorney stating that the logs included any and all relevant information, but I could be wrong.

[NoSaint]

I believe there were accusations prior from other teams and they caught them later.

wasnt it mangini during the game complaining? Not the nfl having a meeting the week before and saying "ok we have credible sources that the pats do this, and instead of talking to them we are going to set up spies in the sideline seating to keep a lookout"

 

i dont really care the finer points here... sting or no sting, i think the point stands that some are frustrated that it wasnt handled per the nfl norms in a situation like this. like i said, not excusing the actions, just discussing the reactions.

[Lurker]

I believe that the attorney's turning over the text/email logs would have come with a statement from the attorney stating that the logs included any and all relevant information, but I could be wrong.

Someone should ask Yee if Brady would like to "clear up this misunderstanding" by turning over the texts and phone calls now. They must still exist, right?

[NoSaint]

I believe that the attorney's turning over the text/email logs would have come with a statement from the attorney stating that the logs included any and all relevant information, but I could be wrong.

fair enough, and i wasnt thinking of that. possible.

[Pneumonic]

 

Not sure about that Wayne.

 

Admittedly, I haven't read the entire report, but it sure appears as though the ball handlers were told specifically to get the pressure lower and lower (hence "this next one's gonna be a f**king balloon" and "F Tom").

 

Moreover, Brady lied. He flat out said that he'd never even heard of McNally, yet there's documentation in the report that clearly indicates they'd been in communication about the preparation of the balls. The dog and pony show that Brady, Belichik, and Kraft put on about there being no tampering (with all its righteous indignation, belligerence, and incredulity) and Brady knowing nothing about it is what's going to come home to roost IMO.

 

Brady was the ring-leader in ANOTHER Patriots cheating scandal, one that involved tampering with the game's most critical piece of equipment. Then, when questioned directly by the NFL, he lied.

 

He's going to get something.

 

Just because Brady wanted balls deflated does not mean he wanted them underinflated.

 

Also, while the report makes it clear that Brady knew Jastremski there is no evidence that Brady knew McNally. The report simply speculates that Brady knew McNally.

[Kelly the Dog]

wasnt it mangini during the game complaining? Not the nfl having a meeting the week before and saying "ok we have credible sources that the pats do this, and instead of talking to them we are going to set up spies in the sideline seating to keep a lookout"

i dont really care the finer points here... sting or no sting, i think the point stands that some are frustrated that it wasnt handled per the nfl norms in a situation like this. like i said, not excusing the actions, just discussing the reactions.

I'm not denying it but what are the previous times the NFL thought some team was blatantly breaking the rules to gain a competitive advantage, in a championship game no less, and just sent a memo?

[NoSaint]

I'm not denying it but what are the previous times the NFL thought some team was blatantly breaking the rules to gain a competitive advantage, in a championship game no less, and just sent a memo?

they send points of emphasis memos that weve heard about before on various rules that they think are being broken. theyve been reported on before.

 

i do not get cc'ed on all those going out to teams so i cant just shoot you the emails. i can say tagliabue (sp?) did come out and say he didnt think it was handled properly which might satisfy your question about how the league has handled stuff in the past. if you need me to produce a specific memo about a specific team in a championship game, im going to disappoint you though.

[PromoTheRobot]

Is anyone else really enjoying the all out attack waged on the Pats? This is just so great. I have been trolling every Pats fan I know and they are SO defensive. This is just great.

My Facebook Pats* fan friends are in full coniption denial mode.

[Kelly the Dog]

they send points of emphasis memos that weve heard about before on various rules that they think are being broken. theyve been reported on before.

i do not get cc'ed on all those going out to teams so i cant just shoot you the emails. i can say tagliabue (sp?) did come out and say he didnt think it was handled properly which might satisfy your question about how the league has handled stuff in the past. if you need me to produce a specific memo about a specific team in a championship game, im going to disappoint you though.

Right. But I am thinking those are more like Jersey violations or even stuff like the formation the Pats were using. This seems different to me. And obviously to the league.

 

When someone is looking a little strange in a card game you say "hey, don't be looking at my cards." That's a memo. When someone is cheating at cards you watch and then catch them cheating.

Edited May 7, 2015 by Kelly the Dog

[PromoTheRobot]

Not that I don't agree but very unlikely. Unless there is a way to link it back to BB and the rest of the organization I think they are going to focus the punishment on the 3 individuals and not the "team".

If the NFL doesn't drop the hammer on the Pats* they are sending the message that cheating is okay.

[Captain Hindsight]

That's not what they asked for. They allowed Tom's representation to sift through everything and only hand over texts and emails relevant to the investigation, he still declined.

I know, just saying I understand Tammys vote to not allow that. Still think it screams guilt

[dave mcbride]

My numerous Pats friends are in denial mode too, although one of the fair-minded ones (a corporate litigator at a leading firm and a peripheral follower) said something reasonable: "From what I can glean, the defense of Brady has to rest on the notion that he wanted balls deflated as close as possible to the legal minimum but that he never expressly told the equipment guys that it should be below the legal minimum."

 

That makes sense, I think. As I said, I don't think this is an open-and-shut case.

 

Just because Brady wanted balls deflated does not mean he wanted them underinflated.

 

Also, while the report makes it clear that Brady knew Jastremski there is no evidence that Brady knew McNally. The report simply speculates that Brady knew McNally.

That is true - and indeed, it could be interpreted to read that Jastremski was a go-between between Brady and a guy he didn't know.

Don't get me wrong - I think he's guilty. But there is some flimsiness in the report - which is why it signals "probably."

Edited May 7, 2015 by dave mcbride

[NoSaint]

Right. But I am thinking those are more like Jersey violations or even stuff like the formation the Pats were using. This seems different to me. And obviously to the league.

 

When someone is looking a little strange in a card game you say "hey, don't be looking at my cards." That's a memo. When someone is cheating at cards you watch and then catch them cheating.

i recall talk of it for bounty stuff, and i think practicing players that shouldnt be eligible (IR and PUP).... but its not like i catalog memos that pft mentions in passing years ago

 

in your example i think going into the big card game, if you suspect someones a cheater, you would say "and we will be watching the table closely" before you even deal the first hand.

Edited May 7, 2015 by NoSaint

[Wayne Cubed]

My numerous Pats friends are in denial mode too, although one of the fair-minded ones (a corporate litigator at a leading firm and a peripheral follower) said something reasonable: "From what I can glean, the defense of Brady has to rest on the notion that he wanted balls deflated as close as possible to the legal minimum but that he never expressly told the equipment guys that it should be below the legal minimum."

 

That makes sense, I think. As I said, I don't think this is an open-and-shut case.

 

I think that's as close as you can get to a defense. I said something similar a couple pages back. I think the only problem with that is that he did lie and he didn't cooperate with the leagues investigation. Which is a big no-no. Also Goodell set precedent with his "ignorance is not an excuse" statement during spygate, so just because Tom didn't know they were lowering below the limit shouldn't be an excuse, he was still asking them to do it and bribing them.

[Kelly the Dog]

My numerous Pats friends are in denial mode too, although one of the fair-minded ones (a corporate litigator at a leading firm and a peripheral follower) said something reasonable: "From what I can glean, the defense of Brady has to rest on the notion that he wanted balls deflated as close as possible to the legal minimum but that he never expressly told the equipment guys that it should be below the legal minimum."

 

That makes sense, I think. As I said, I don't think this is an open-and-shut case.

Belichick said in his interview that we, The Patriots*, tell the league to set them at the minimum 12,5 (and went as far to say maybe we will change that in future so this thing doesn't happen. Brady would know that. So anything after the original check would by definition be illegal and cheating. Remember this is after they were checked by the officials. Edited May 7, 2015 by Kelly the Dog