Bills to trade Kiko Alonso for LeSean McCoy

[WhitewalkerInPhilly]

And when that's full - and by all accounts it soon should be, there's more room for the jumpers on the Walt Whitman Bridge.

 

Could not happen to a better fan base. Well, maybe the Pats*... if on the day Marcia retires BB comes out as a cross-dresser and admits he cheated every day on the job, and Kraft has compromising videos of him and farm animals leaked on Vimeo.

I am biased, as I am dating one, but I find that Eagles fans tend to share our "I'm optimistic!"/"Well maybe it won't be so bad..."/"Hey, only we get to talk how bad our team is!"/"DOOOOOOOMEEEED" cycle, so I can't hate them.

 

That and they hate the Cowboys.

 

Man, f*ck the Cowboys.

[Dibs]

Demarco Murray will probably end up in Philly now. They get Murray plus Kiko for cheaper than McCoy. I'm jealous

Your crystal ball is firmly tuned into Murray's contract then?

[KDIGGZ]

Your crystal ball is firmly tuned into Murray's contract then?

yep he will get $7-8M per depending how they structure it. You will see tomorrow

[Matt in KC]

Figured this was a good thread to make my first post.

 

I liked this trade for McCoy from the second a friend texted me the news. I only read the first 17 pages of this thread, so maybe this has been discussed: I think the success of Kiko (and to an extent Bradham) is a product of the D-line. It's easy to rack up tackles when you are clean because Marcell and Kyle are playing in front of you. For instance, Ray Lewis' effectiveness was extended by having Ngata soaking up blocks in front of him. Kiko was undersized to play in the middle and his contributions were going to be made by speed and agility . . . but he tore his ACL . . . again. This trade could end up being very heavily one-sided for the Bills, because we know what Shady can do. We traded Kiko to the one person - Chip Kelly - who may overvalue Kiko more than the collective TBD. I say well done Whaley.

 

Another take: wasn't Kiko the extra pick the Bills swiped from the Rams when they traded up to pick Tavon Austin? So Whaley got EJ Manuel and Shady McCoy with that pick? Again, I say well done Whaley.

 

Go Bills!

Nice first post. Welcome to the board!

 

I think some of our problems with the run defense two years ago was on plays when Kiko, or others, were out of position. Sure, he flew around and made a lot of nice plays, more aggressive than you typically see from a rookie, but there were quite a others where we were gashed because he was caught in the wrong gap.

 

I agree, EJ Manuel and Kiko selected from a single draft pick was great maneuvering by Whaley.

[NoSaint]

yep he will get $7-8M per depending how they structure it. You will see tomorrow

saw some chatter that reuniting with a close friend in bradford was also a big part of the appeal in philly..... heck, playing dallas twice a year might be too....

 

you cant just declare he wouldve been ours at the same terms. and i still think mccoy is the better player.

[JohnC]

saw some chatter that reuniting with a close friend in bradford was also a big part of the appeal in philly..... heck, playing dallas twice a year might be too....

 

you cant just declare he wouldve been ours at the same terms. and i still think mccoy is the better player.

Kelly knew what he was doing when he made the McCoy deal. He gave up a very high quality back and not only got a good young LB in Kinko but also got enough cap relief to acquire a good CB in free agency. In additon, not only did he sign the back from San Diego there is a good chance that he will also sign Murray, thus fortifying the backfield and to a great extent offsetting the loss of McCoy. From a roster standpoint he is being very creative and courageous in rebuilding his roster.

 

The big gamble he made is in trading Foles for Bradford. That will be the main factor in determing how successful his numerous transactions turn out to be.

 

I'm not suggesting that he got the better of the deal in his trade with the Bills. The Bills did what was right for them and he did what was right for his team. But without a doubt it is very interesting watching Kelly make his many deals and observing his outside the box thinking. He is not a follower of the conventional NFL way of doing business, he is a trend setter.

[GG]

Kelly knew what he was doing when he made the McCoy deal. He gave up a very high quality back and not only got a good young LB in Kinko but also got enough cap relief to acquire a good CB in free agency. In additon, not only did he sign the back from San Diego there is a good chance that he will also sign Murray, thus fortifying the backfield and to a great extent offsetting the loss of McCoy. From a roster standpoint he is being very creative and courageous in rebuilding his roster.

 

The big gamble he made is in trading Foles for Bradford. That will be the main factor in determing how successful his numerous transactions turn out to be.

 

I'm not suggesting that he got the better of the deal in his trade with the Bills. The Bills did what was right for them and he did what was right for his team. But without a doubt it is very interesting watching Kelly make his many deals and observing his outside the box thinking. He is not a follower of the conventional NFL way of doing business, he is a trend setter.

 

Murray fell in his lap. Would he still be entertaining him if Gore had signed as intended?

[JohnC]

 

Murray fell in his lap. Would he still be entertaining him if Gore had signed as intended?

When the free agency market opens up things happen quickly and unexpectedly. Players that you target and expect to sign often go elsewhere. Players that you didn't believe you are in position to get for a variety of reasons become available.

 

Teams that are in a more flexible cap position are in a better situation to respond to the quickly changing market. Kelly put his team in a good position to take advantage of the situation he didn't expect to happen. That is the nature of of free agency.

[WhitewalkerInPhilly]

yep he will get $7-8M per depending how they structure it. You will see tomorrow

You are aware that Shady's $40M deal divided over five years equals $8M a year, right?

[LB3]

The Eagles now have 4 RB's, as long as the Matthews deal still goes through as it's being reported. Top three:

 

Murray - 5/42m

Matthews - 3/11.5m

Sproles - 2/8.6m (remaining)

[Nanker]

I am biased, as I am dating one, but I find that Eagles fans tend to share our "I'm optimistic!"/"Well maybe it won't be so bad..."/"Hey, only we get to talk how bad our team is!"/"DOOOOOOOMEEEED" cycle, so I can't hate them.

 

That and they hate the Cowboys.

 

Man, f*ck the Cowboys.

Ha, ha man, I'm with you on that!

[NoSaint]

Kelly knew what he was doing when he made the McCoy deal. He gave up a very high quality back and not only got a good young LB in Kinko but also got enough cap relief to acquire a good CB in free agency. In additon, not only did he sign the back from San Diego there is a good chance that he will also sign Murray, thus fortifying the backfield and to a great extent offsetting the loss of McCoy. From a roster standpoint he is being very creative and courageous in rebuilding his roster.

 

The big gamble he made is in trading Foles for Bradford. That will be the main factor in determing how successful his numerous transactions turn out to be.

 

I'm not suggesting that he got the better of the deal in his trade with the Bills. The Bills did what was right for them and he did what was right for his team. But without a doubt it is very interesting watching Kelly make his many deals and observing his outside the box thinking. He is not a follower of the conventional NFL way of doing business, he is a trend setter.

Wait... Did you just argue that he unloaded shady to create space to add players despite also noting he signed a lesser running back at higher average pay to replace him (plus another back)? Edited March 13, 2015 by NoSaint

[BillsFan-4-Ever]

Wait... Did you just argue that he unloaded shady to create space to add players despite also noting he signed a lesser running back at higher average pay to replace him (plus another back)?

looks that way.

[JohnC]

Wait... Did you just argue that he unloaded shady to create space to add players despite also noting he signed a lesser running back at higher average pay to replace him (plus another back)?

From what I read he didn't expect to sign Murray. But because he made a number of deals and cuts that gave him a lot of cap space he was in a position to sign Murray. With the McCoy trade he acquired Kiko and added a good DB from Seattle. So the end result is that even with the loss of McCoy he has a strong running back corps and he has added players to help the defense.

 

You can't look at his salary dump maneuverings only from how much he is now spending on his backfield. The end result is that he has more depth (Mathews, Sproles & Murray) at that position and arguably isn't very much diminished and his defense is bolstered.

Edited March 13, 2015 by JohnC

[BillsFan-4-Ever]

How can anyone truly expect to sign any player in FA? There are too many variables.

[NoSaint]

From what I read he didn't expect to sign Murray. But because he made a number of deals and cuts that gave him a lot of cap space he was in a position to sign Murray. With the McCoy trade he acquired Kiko and added a good DB from Seattle. So the end result is that even with the loss of McCoy he has a strong running back corps and he has added players to help the defense.

 

You can't look at his salary dump maneuverings only from how much he is now spending on his backfield. The end result is that he has more depth (Mathews, Sproles & Murray) at that position and arguably isn't very much diminished and his defense is bolstered.

i understand that he reshaped the backfield - but i think you have to argue he dumped shady and reinvested to sign murray and matthews as the logical 1-1, not he dumped murray to sign a CB and then in turn just happened to spend all that money on rb anyway. he didnt cut the backfield salary, so it may be a minor point or semantics, but its tough to see he cut rb money for a cb here.

[ALF]

With this being a strong draft for RB's I wonder if we could have gotten a good one in the 2nd and still have Kiko. Easy on the salary cap also.

[NoSaint]

With this being a strong draft for RB's I wonder if we could have gotten a good one in the 2nd and still have Kiko. Easy on the salary cap also.

Well.... Now you don't have to wonder if we will have a dynamic playmaker back there - so that's a perk. Relying on pick 50 for a guy that you will design the whole offense around seems like it would cause way more wonder.

[JohnC]

i understand that he reshaped the backfield - but i think you have to argue he dumped shady and reinvested to sign murray and matthews as the logical 1-1, not he dumped murray to sign a CB and then in turn just happened to spend all that money on rb anyway. he didnt cut the backfield salary, so it may be a minor point or semantics, but its tough to see he cut rb money for a cb here.

I disagree with how you are characterizing my position. When Kelly traded McCoy for Kiko he got in addition more cap room to also acquire a DB from Seattle .He was then able to get a good back with an injury history (not as good as McCoy) who should be productive behind one of the best run blocking lines in the game.

 

From what I understand Kelly had no intention in pursuing Murray. It was Murray who called the Eagles and exhorted them to consider a deal for him. The Murray deal was not originally associated with the McCoy deal. It fell into their lap and they seized the opportunity to get a premier back.

 

Where I respectfully disagree with your perspective is that you are collectively viewing these transactions from the primary viewpoint that they overspent on a position. That is not how I am analyzing these transactions. All the players Kelly signed are good value $$$ pick ups. Kiko and the DB they added should bolster the defense and the the backfield grouping of Sproles, Mathews and Murray more than compensate for the loss of McCoy.

 

No one can predict how the free agent market is going to work out. Players come and go on their own volition seeking better deals and organizations respond by letting players go and picking up other players to compensate for the vacated players. The Eagles wanted to keep Maclin but he decided to sign with the Chiefs. The process is quixotic, face paced and to a great extent is uncontrollable and messy.

 

From what I read and heard on the radio it was Demarco Murray who notified the Eagles and not the other way around. It was an unexpected player availability. So they did what good organizations do by seizing the opportunity to sign a talented running back when initially they didn't plan for it.

 

What I find most intriguing about Kelly's dealings is the qb trade he made to get Bradford. Kelly is making a big gamble that he is getting the right qb to implement his imaginative offensive schemes. In my view Kelly is ahead of the curve in a league full of conventional thinkers and followers. Only time will tell whether he is very smart or foolish.

Edited March 13, 2015 by JohnC

[NoSaint]

Where I respectfully disagree with your perspective is that you are collectively viewing these transactions from the primary viewpoint that they overspent on a position. That is not how I am analyzing these transactions. All the players Kelly signed are good value $$$ pick ups. Kiko and the DB they added should bolster the defense and the the backfield grouping of Sproles, Mathews and Murray more than compensate for the loss of McCoy.

 

i dont think they overspent - i think they had a dollar in, dollar out spending cycle at the position so you cant characterize it as saved money to acquire a running back. if we cut fred and then signed someone else, then signed powell at a similar price to fred, you would not characterize it as the bills saving money to get the other player and then also getting a replacement running back... wise spending or not, it seemed like spending your savings twice in the narrative.

[JohnC]

i dont think they overspent - i think they had a dollar in, dollar out spending cycle at the position so you cant characterize it as saved money to acquire a running back. if we cut fred and then signed someone else, then signed powell at a similar price to fred, you would not characterize it as the bills saving money to get the other player and then also getting a replacement running back... wise spending or not, it seemed like spending your savings twice in the narrative.

I don't want to belabor the point but the Demarco pickup was an unexpected pickup, at least that is what I read and heard from a number of reports. As I stated in the prior post it was Murray and his reps that got in touch with the Eagles, not the other way around. Again, Kelly didn't expect to use available money for another RB, but the talent was too enticing not to explore and bring into the fold. They were in position to sieze an unexpected opportunity, and they did so.

 

Sproles, Mathews and Murray make up a very deep and varied running back corps. If you factor in that their OL is near the top of the league in run blocking then it is probable that they will continue to get a lot of pruduction from the backfield despite the loss of a an excellent back in McCoy. That is the bottom line.

 

Unless the Bills do additional work in upgrading their OL they will get a lot less production out of McCoy (elite talent) than the Eagles got out of him. Watkins is a very dynamic receiver. His talents were very much underutilized because the caliber of qb play was less than mediocre. I'm hoping that that type of scenario doesn't repeat itself for McCoy this season because of a lack of supporting cast (OL).

Edited March 13, 2015 by JohnC

[eball]

I don't want to belabor the point but the Demarco pickup was an unexpected pickup, at least that is what I read and heard from a number of reports. As I stated in the prior post it was Murray and his reps that got in touch with the Eagles, not the other way around. Again, Kelly didn't expect to use available money for another RB, but the talent was too enticing not to explore and bring into the fold. They were in position to sieze an unexpected opportunity, and they did so.

 

Sproles, Mathews and Murray make up a very deep and varied running back corps. If you factor in that their OL is near the top of the league in run blocking then it is probable that they will continue to get a lot of pruduction from the backfield despite the loss of a an excellent back in McCoy. That is the bottom line.

 

Unless the Bills do additional work in upgrading their OL they will get a lot less production out of McCoy (elite talent) than the Eagles got out of him. Watkins is a very dynamic receiver. His talents were very much underutilized because the caliber of qb play was less than mediocre. I'm hoping that that type of scenario doesn't repeat itself for McCoy this season because of a lack of supporting cast (OL).

 

JohnC you are clearly an intelligent guy and your comments are never of the knee-jerk variety...unfortunately, you also seem to believe that Marrone was a good head coach and at least an adequate offensive strategist. You blame the OL and the QB without consideration for the fact that both units were very poorly coached.

 

As for Chip Kelly and the Eagles, Kelly has essentially proven himself a liar with the way they have spent $$ at the RB position. He clearly didn't like McCoy and that's why they dealt him. Kelly knew he could pick up one or two top level RBs at some point.

[JohnC]

 

JohnC you are clearly an intelligent guy and your comments are never of the knee-jerk variety...unfortunately, you also seem to believe that Marrone was a good head coach and at least an adequate offensive strategist. You blame the OL and the QB without consideration for the fact that both units were very poorly coached.

 

As for Chip Kelly and the Eagles, Kelly has essentially proven himself a liar with the way they have spent $$ at the RB position. He clearly didn't like McCoy and that's why they dealt him. Kelly knew he could pick up one or two top level RBs at some point.

eball, Without any equivocation I say with confidence that our OL last year was either the worst or near the worst in the league last year. I will aslo say without any equivocation that Orton was the worst or near the worst starting qb in the league. Those staffing deficiencies had little to do with the unlikeable HC that you continue to rebuke even while he is gone from the organization.

 

The departed HC that you revile got an 8-8 caliber of team (9-7 record) to play to its talent level. What more do you want? Is Doug Marrone an elite HC. Absolutely not. He is certainly not an innovative coach but he is a legitimate HC who during his stint had his team moving in the right directiion. Compare that to the loud talking HC from Jersey whose team over the past three years was on a downward trajectory and whose record against DM was not very sterling. You don't have to be reminded that Rex was fired by the Jets and DM was not. He left under his own volution.

 

I don't know what the source of your animus is towards DM. He made a decison based on his own interest and was permissable within the terms of his contract. The former HC and the GM had different visions on how to build a roster. Because of that he did what he felt was right for him and his family. In the end not only did he do what was right for himself but he did what was right for the organization. What is wrong with that?

 

Success in this league is about talent. Being a more personable and appealing character doesn't trump talent.

 

eball, look forward and don't let the past weigh you down. It is better to gain satisfaction from one's own successes rather than delight in the tribulations of others who have departed the scene.

Edited March 13, 2015 by JohnC

[Deranged Rhino]

eball, Without any equivocation I say with confidence that our OL last year was either the worst or near the worst in the league last year. I will aslo say without any equivocation that Orton was the worst or near the worst starting qb in the league. Those staffing deficiencies had little to do with the unlikeable HC that you continue to rebuke even while he is gone from the organization.

 

T

 

I had to stop there because of the blatant absurdity of your last sentence. The offense was Doug's design. The offensive line was Doug's baby. The offensive line was built to specifications requested by Doug's scheme (big bruisers employing a zone blocking scheme for some reason). The QB was brought in specifically because Doug wanted an option better than Jordan Palmer in case EJ faltered.

 

To say Orton and the offensive line's performance had nothing to do with the man who designed the schemes and picked the 53 is complete and udder nonsense.

Edited March 13, 2015 by GreggyT

[JohnC]

 

I had to stop there because of the blatant absurdity of your last sentence. The offense was Doug's design. The offensive line was Doug's baby. The offensive line was built to specifications requested by Doug's scheme (big bruisers employing a zone blocking scheme for some reason). The QB was brought in specifically because Doug wanted an option better than Jordan Palmer in case EJ faltered.

 

To say Orton and the offensive line's performance had nothing to do with the man who designed the schemes and picked the 53 is complete and udder nonsense.

It doesn't matter what scheme a HC designs, brilliant or not, if the players implementing the offense are inadequate it will not work. Success in the NFL is mostly about talent level. Marrone on offense, most notably the OL and at qb, was working with significant deficits.

 

Whether the qb option the HC had to draw from was EJ, Palmer, Orton, Thad Lewis or Tuel the talent level at that critical position was the primary reason why the offense was deeply stuck in the mud with no wheels.

 

Doug Marrone preferred linemen who were big and bulky over light and quick players because it fit his blocking scheme better. There is nothing unusual about that preference. But it was Whaley who used three draft picks on o-linemen and brought in a free agent to bolster the line. All three rookies were overwhelmed, including the second round pick who didn't deserve a roster spot. The veteran qb that was brought in, Orton, who didn't even work out in the offseason (and it showed) was atrocious. As bad as he was the coaches believed that he gave the team a better chance to win than their former first round pick. That is a commentary on the talent level, not the coaching philosophy.

 

Success in the NFL is mostly predicated on talent level rather than the likeability of the HC. DM got a very flawed team to play up to, if not a little beyond, its talent level. What is there to complain about?

[Chilly]

It doesn't matter what scheme a HC designs, brilliant or not, if the players implementing the offense are inadequate it will not work. Success in the NFL is mostly about talent level. Marrone on offense, most notably the OL and at qb, was working with significant deficits.

 

Whether the qb option the HC had to draw from was EJ, Palmer, Orton, Thad Lewis or Tuel the talent level at that critical position was the primary reason why the offense was deeply stuck in the mud with no wheels.

 

Doug Marrone preferred linemen who were big and bulky over light and quick players because it fit his blocking scheme better. There is nothing unusual about that preference. But it was Whaley who used three draft picks on o-linemen and brought in a free agent to bolster the line. All three rookies were overwhelmed, including the second round pick who didn't deserve a roster spot. The veteran qb that was brought in, Orton, who didn't even work out in the offseason (and it showed) was atrocious. As bad as he was the coaches believed that he gave the team a better chance to win than their former first round pick. That is a commentary on the talent level, not the coaching philosophy.

 

Success in the NFL is mostly predicated on talent level rather than the likeability of the HC. DM got a very flawed team to play up to, if not a little beyond, its talent level. What is there to complain about?

It's pretty easy to complain when it's been reported that it was Marrone, not Whaley, that wanted Chris Williams and EJ Manuel.

[JohnC]

It's pretty easy to complain when it's been reported that it was Marrone, not Whaley, that wanted Chris Williams and EJ Manuel.

The GM and his scouting department evaluate and rank players and prospects. There is no doubt that a HC has some input. But the selection is made by the GM. It's not fully known if EJ was favored by Nix and/or Whaley. But there is no doubt that Whaley was instrumental on evaluating and ranking the qb prospects in that particular draft year.

 

Could you please provide the link indicating Marrone's role in the selection of Chris Williams and EJ? The bottom line is that the GM, not the HC, has the last say on the selection of players.

Edited March 13, 2015 by JohnC

[Deranged Rhino]

It doesn't matter what scheme a HC designs, brilliant or not, if the players implementing the offense are inadequate it will not work. Success in the NFL is mostly about talent level. Marrone on offense, most notably the OL and at qb, was working with significant deficits.

 

Whether the qb option the HC had to draw from was EJ, Palmer, Orton, Thad Lewis or Tuel the talent level at that critical position was the primary reason why the offense was deeply stuck in the mud with no wheels.

 

Doug Marrone preferred linemen who were big and bulky over light and quick players because it fit his blocking scheme better. There is nothing unusual about that preference. But it was Whaley who used three draft picks on o-linemen and brought in a free agent to bolster the line. All three rookies were overwhelmed, including the second round pick who didn't deserve a roster spot. The veteran qb that was brought in, Orton, who didn't even work out in the offseason (and it showed) was atrocious. As bad as he was the coaches believed that he gave the team a better chance to win than their former first round pick. That is a commentary on the talent level, not the coaching philosophy.

 

Success in the NFL is mostly predicated on talent level rather than the likeability of the HC. DM got a very flawed team to play up to, if not a little beyond, its talent level. What is there to complain about?

 

Coaching in the NFL makes ALL the difference in the world. Every NFL roster is loaded with talent, yes some have more super stars than others but every player in the NFL has incredible talent. They have to, just by nature of making it as far in the sport as they have. The difference between winning and losing teams often times comes down to which coaches get the most from their rosters, either through scheme or development. St. Doug's scheme and development were both poor. This is undeniable. Every QB regressed, even our good young linemen like Glenn showed signs of regression.

 

Proof of the insanity of Doug's scheme is found in the deployment of the 53 man roster. Big and bulky players do not traditionally work well in the type of scheme Doug was running. Which was my point when I noted that it was a bad plan from the beginning. Moving Pears to guard, stapling Ubrik to the bench, those weren't brilliant moves in hindsight or real time. Excuse the man all you want, but the failures of the offense to produce fall squarely on the coach, not Whaley. But again, we clearly have different opinions. If you think this team went 9-7 because of Doug, not in spite of him, then we're never going to agree. If you think coaching doesn't matter in the NFL, then that tells me all I need to know about your argument.

[NoSaint]

I've taken to simply agreeing to disagree with johns take that the offense was so terrible that coaching could have zero effect. Our relationship is better without having to constantly remind him he's wrong.

[GG]

I've taken to simply agreeing to disagree with johns take that the offense was so terrible that coaching could have zero effect. Our relationship is better without having to constantly remind him he's wrong.

 

Sounds like you've been married for a while.

[JohnC]

I've taken to simply agreeing to disagree with johns take that the offense was so terrible that coaching could have zero effect. Our relationship is better without having to constantly remind him he's wrong.

Let's be clear to what I have consistently said all along. The primary reason for the offense's ineptitude and wretched performance had to do with the mediocre staffing of the OL and qb position. I have never stated that our coaching of the offense was of an elite or even a good level. It was adequate at best.

 

Anyone who watched Orton perform and not come away thinking that he stunk was watching different games than I was. What makes the situation so ridiculous and pathetic is that the HC believed that the middling veteran qb who was glaringly out of shape offered the team a better chance to win than our first round selected qb. What is sad but true is that the unpopular HC was right in his assessment.

 

Anyone who watched our OL play and not come away thinking that the play of the OL was wretched was not watching the same games that I watched. It is not unusual that teams have weak units. But when the weakness are at such a dramatically bad level that you can't mitigate your weaknesses then that is a staffing problem that can't be corrected until the staffing changes.

 

Whaley has consistently stated that upgrading our OL is a priority entering this season. He has stressed that point not because our OL was adequate last year but for the obvious reason that it was blatantly inadequate.

 

On the offensive side of the ball Whaley failed the unlikeable HC much more than the HC failed the GM. That is why the GM is putting a lot of effort in upgrading an offense that was very impotent last year. While most people are directing their harsh criticisms of DM for his misuse of players on offense (mostly OL and qb) my take on the situation is very different. The criticisms should be redirected to the person most responsible for assembling the talent on offense. And that is the GM---not the HC!

Edited March 14, 2015 by JohnC

[Chilly]

The GM and his scouting department evaluate and rank players and prospects. There is no doubt that a HC has some input. But the selection is made by the GM. It's not fully known if EJ was favored by Nix and/or Whaley. But there is no doubt that Whaley was instrumental on evaluating and ranking the qb prospects in that particular draft year.

 

Could you please provide the link indicating Marrone's role in the selection of Chris Williams and EJ? The bottom line is that the GM, not the HC, has the last say on the selection of players.

It's totally fair for you to call for a link, but I saw it on Twitter from two different beat reporters back in January. Can't remember who or wording to search.

[atlbillsfan1975]

eball, Without any equivocation I say with confidence that our OL last year was either the worst or near the worst in the league last year. I will aslo say without any equivocation that Orton was the worst or near the worst starting qb in the league. Those staffing deficiencies had little to do with the unlikeable HC that you continue to rebuke even while he is gone from the organization.

 

The departed HC that you revile got an 8-8 caliber of team (9-7 record) to play to its talent level. What more do you want? Is Doug Marrone an elite HC. Absolutely not. He is certainly not an innovative coach but he is a legitimate HC who during his stint had his team moving in the right directiion. Compare that to the loud talking HC from Jersey whose team over the past three years was on a downward trajectory and whose record against DM was not very sterling. You don't have to be reminded that Rex was fired by the Jets and DM was not. He left under his own volution.

 

I don't know what the source of your animus is towards DM. He made a decison based on his own interest and was permissable within the terms of his contract. The former HC and the GM had different visions on how to build a roster. Because of that he did what he felt was right for him and his family. In the end not only did he do what was right for himself but he did what was right for the organization. What is wrong with that?

 

Success in this league is about talent. Being a more personable and appealing character doesn't trump talent.

 

eball, look forward and don't let the past weigh you down. It is better to gain satisfaction from one's own successes rather than delight in the tribulations of others who have departed the scene.

eball is not the only one who thinks Marrone is a bad HC. No other team hired him. In fact no other team hired him as an OC. The only gig Marrone could get was Oline coach at Jax. It will be Marrones slow disappearance into oblivion.

You talk about how bad the Oline was in Buffalo last year, Marrone was that units coach.

People like you crack me up.

 

McCoy will be the best back we have seen in Buffalo since Thurman. Why? Roman and his staff on O will do a better job the Marrone and his staff did.

 

Rex is such a better coach then Marrone, it is not even funny. The D and talent won 9 games. That idiot Marrone lost 7.

[BillsFan-4-Ever]

 

I had to stop there because of the blatant absurdity of your last sentence. The offense was Doug's design. The offensive line was Doug's baby. The offensive line was built to specifications requested by Doug's scheme (big bruisers employing a zone blocking scheme for some reason). The QB was brought in specifically because Doug wanted an option better than Jordan Palmer in case EJ faltered.

 

To say Orton , EJ and the offensive line's performance had nothing to do with the man who designed the schemes and picked the 53 is complete and udder nonsense.

fix the last for you

It's pretty easy to complain when it's been reported that it was Marrone, not Whaley, that wanted Chris Williams and EJ Manuel.

as noted by other posters.. some players do not develop until their later second or 3rd year.

 

Whaley brought in a bunch of talent. have some faith

you may also recall a group here wanting Gino Smith over EJ

you may also recall a group here wanting Johnny Futball over EJ

 

you may also recall a group here wanting a QB who retired because he lost his will to play @ 26 over EJ

If coaching has little affect please explain Bill Bilicheat

lets say Marrone wasn't a bad coach, just not good enough for the Buffalo Bills

[JohnC]

eball is not the only one who thinks Marrone is a bad HC. No other team hired him. In fact no other team hired him as an OC. The only gig Marrone could get was Oline coach at Jax. It will be Marrones slow disappearance into oblivion.

You talk about how bad the Oline was in Buffalo last year, Marrone was that units coach.

People like you crack me up.

 

McCoy will be the best back we have seen in Buffalo since Thurman. Why? Roman and his staff on O will do a better job the Marrone and his staff did.

 

Rex is such a better coach then Marrone, it is not even funny. The D and talent won 9 games. That idiot Marrone lost 7.

If DM was such a bad coach then why were the Bills going to retain him? If Rex was such a successful head coach then why was he fired?

 

There is no doubt that Rex is a more personable person and interesting character than the dour Marrone. But let's not allow his more engaging personality cloud his actual record. In the two years that Marrone coached in the league with Rex he demonstrably outperformed him. and head to head beat him more often.

 

Rex is a very good defensive coordinator. But as a HC he is average at best. You may be impressed with his juvenile tattoos, his souped up truck and his bombastic predictions that don't come to fruition but I'm not.

 

If Rex is to do well it is because the team improves its personnel. As demonstrated by his record in Jersey it certainly won't be due to his brilliant coaching.

Edited March 14, 2015 by JohnC

[BillsFan-4-Ever]

let me repeat this John C

 

lets say Marrone wasn't a bad coach, just not good enough for the Buffalo Bills.

 

why were the Bills going to retain him?

Because he had talent enough to overcome mediocre coaching?

 

 

If Rex was such a successful head coach then why was he fired?

the Jets FO is a mess and pas usual the NYETS sucked and they switched gears?

 

the day Rex publicly screams a Whaley I'll going in with you on this

[Chilly]

If DM was such a bad coach then why were the Bills going to retain him? If Rex was such a successful head coach then why was he fired?

 

Why do most good coaches get fired at least once in their careers?

[Deranged Rhino]

If DM was such a bad coach then why were the Bills going to retain him? If Rex was such a successful head coach then why was he fired?

 

There is no doubt that Rex is a more personable person and interesting character than the dour Marrone. But let's not allow his more engaging personality cloud his actual record. In the two years that Marrone coached in the league with Rex he demonstrably outperformed him. and head to head beat him more often.

 

Rex is a very good defensive coordinator. But as a HC he is average at best. You may be impressed with his juvenile tattoos, his souped up truck and his bombastic predictions that don't come to fruition but I'm not.

 

If Rex is to do well it is because the team improves its personnel. As demonstrated by his record in Jersey it certainly won't be due to his brilliant coaching.

 

The Jets had zero NFL caliber CBs last season and their defense still finished in the top ten. If you're going to completely remove personnel blunders by the Jets front office from the equation like you are in this post, it seems disingenuous not to do the same to Doug Marrone who you give a complete pass to on that front.

 

You're dramatically underselling Rex Ryan's coaching abilities and ignoring what was going on behind the scenes in New York his last two years. That's not fair when you're doing the opposite to St.Doug.

Edited March 14, 2015 by GreggyT

[atlbillsfan1975]

If DM was such a bad coach then why were the Bills going to retain him? If Rex was such a successful head coach then why was he fired?

 

There is no doubt that Rex is a more personable person and interesting character than the dour Marrone. But let's not allow his more engaging personality cloud his actual record. In the two years that Marrone coached in the league with Rex he demonstrably outperformed him. and head to head beat him more often.

 

Rex is a very good defensive coordinator. But as a HC he is average at best. You may be impressed with his juvenile tattoos, his souped up truck and his bombastic predictions that don't come to fruition but I'm not.

 

If Rex is to do well it is because the team improves its personnel. As demonstrated by his record in Jersey it certainly won't be due to his brilliant coaching.

None of us really know what the Pegula's wanted to do. I am pretty sure Mr and Mrs Pegula are well versed in the art of negotiations. To say they wanted to keep Marrone and he left is what we been told But i really wonder if Marrone's services were wanted. OR the Pegula's knew how to force Marrone's hand. IE tell the ego maniac you are not getting more control, in fact you are getting less, forfeiture of control over your staff.

 

It will be interesting to watch Doug Marrone's career from here till he retires. Something tells me he will be a name in 15 years from now we will be scratching our heads to recall.

Edited March 14, 2015 by atlbillsfan1975

[Fan in San Diego]

None of us really know what the Pegula's wanted to do. I am pretty sure Mr and Mrs Pegula are well versed in the art of negotiations. To say they wanted to keep Marrone and he left is what we been told But i really wonder if Marrone's services were wanted. OR the Pegula's knew how to force Marrone's hand. IE tell the ego maniac you are not getting more control, in fact you are getting less, forfeiture of control over your staff.

 

It will be interesting to watch Doug Marrone's career from here till he retires. Something tells me he will be a name in 15 years from now we will be scratching our heads to recall.

Kind of like Dick Jauron? Where is that guy now?