What a Tuel Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 For example, Brady passed for 4109 yards and had 57 rushing yards for 4166. Wilson passed for 3475 and rushed for 849 for 4324. Although Tom Brady is a good QB , there were 7 other QB's ahead of Tom in that category who did better even with Wilson's rushing yardage included. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#34fan Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 As someone without a dog in this fight, I have to say: your arguments and methodology appear juvenile. There's no "burden of proof"...this is a message board, not a court of law. Others have opinions that differ from yours, and they've clearly provided reasoning for why they have those opinions. That doesn't mean you have to agree, nor does it mean you have to respond with well-reasoned arguments of your own. It would, however, help your credibility if you took part in more logical discussion and less low-brow shot-taking. For my opinion: I don't think Wilson belongs being the highest-paid QB in the NFL. I could see him going for top-5 money (as I said before), somewhere between the $20M/year that Drew Brees and Joe Flacco got after winning their Superbowls and the $21.85M/year that Big Ben is currently making as a 2-time Superbowl winner. He does not, however, belong making more money than Aaron Rodgers or Big Ben IMO. The number that makes the most sense, to me, is $21M/year, since that would put him at 3rd amongst QBs, ahead of Cam Newton and Matt Ryan and behind Rodgers and Ben. Bandit you can't write this type of garbage and then accuse SOMEONE ELSE of having a juvenile methodology... It doesn't work... Still, thanks for brilliantly deducing that this isnt a court of law. . No one ever said it was, but I'm glad you brought it up.. To me, this is an opportuity to inform any shmuck who takes it upon himself to opine on another's paycheck (particularly with designs on limiting it) -to have his facts in hand, and be ready to back his statement. I don't think that's asking too much.... Declarations concerning others carry with them an automatic burden of proof.. So please... Skip the sermon, and help YOUR OWN credibility by explaining why specifically Wilson is undeserving in your estimation.... Cite examples of how he fell short of expectations... Why is it so important that Wilson be behind Rogers in terms of pay? This post is stupid in more ways than I can count. And I've yet to see any compelling evidence that Wilson should be the highest paid player in the game. The fact that he's about the 10-12th best QB in the NFL would make most reasonable people say he shouldn't be. I shouldn't, but I'm going to pretend the bolded portion was actually written by a grownup.... On it's face, it's just an utterly moronic statement... I mean seriously, -is Wilson 10, 11, or 12??? Wait... I'm going to take it easy on you, Barley.. -Who's number 8, and 9? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
What a Tuel Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 Bandit you can't write this type of garbage and then accuse SOMEONE ELSE of having a juvenile methodology... It doesn't work... Still, thanks for brilliantly deducing that this isnt a court of law. . No one ever said it was, but I'm glad you brought it up.. To me, this is an opportuity to inform any shmuck who takes it upon himself to opine on another's paycheck (particularly with designs on limiting it) -to have his facts in hand, and be ready to back his statement. I don't think that's asking too much.... Declarations concerning others carry with them an automatic burden of proof.. So please... Skip the sermon, and help YOUR OWN credibility by explaining why specifically Wilson is undeserving in your estimation.... Cite examples of how he fell short of expectations... Why is it so important that Wilson be behind Rogers in terms of pay? I shouldn't, but I'm going to pretend the bolded portion was actually written by a grownup.... On it's face, it's just an utterly moronic statement... I mean seriously, -is Wilson 10, 11, or 12??? Wait... I'm going to take it easy on you, Barley.. -Who's number 8, and 9? Playoff performance. Specifically the Packers game. Cue the excuses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 Although Tom Brady is a good QB , there were 7 other QB's ahead of Tom in that category who did better even with Wilson's rushing yardage included. I just chose Brady because he is arguably the 1-2 QB in the league and I knew he didnt run. I didnt at all mean to imply that Wilson's total yards would lead the league. Again, he is a unique player. Stats dont tell his real story but he's got them, too. Tell me though, do any of those other 7 have a guy as good as Doug Baldwin to throw to? Maybe RW's stats are distorted by the studs he's throwing to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 Tell me though, do any of those other 7 have a guy as good as Doug Baldwin to throw to? Maybe RW's stats are distorted by the studs he's throwing to.Ha! Or the street free agent who was the receiving star of the Super Bowl. This a point continually ignored by the "Wilson is not elite" crowd. Seattle's receivers are garbage--a bottom two or three unit in the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 Ha! Or the street free agent who was the receiving star of the Super Bowl. This a point continually ignored by the "Wilson is not elite" crowd. Seattle's receivers are garbage--a bottom two or three unit in the league. I don't ignore that - in fact I have highlighted it. Golden Tate is a bona-fide NFL receiver a kind of #1a receiver who is too good to be a #2. But last year Baldwin was his best receiver and is a #3 for most teams. I just don't think that on its own makes someone elite. Alex Smith had rubbish receivers when he got San Fran to the NFC Championship game and when getting KC to the play-offs. He isn't anywhere near elite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
What a Tuel Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 (edited) I just chose Brady because he is arguably the 1-2 QB in the league and I knew he didnt run. I didnt at all mean to imply that Wilson's total yards would lead the league. Again, he is a unique player. Stats dont tell his real story but he's got them, too. Tell me though, do any of those other 7 have a guy as good as Doug Baldwin to throw to? Maybe RW's stats are distorted by the studs he's throwing to. I figured that. He was kind of on a down year though despite winning the Super Bowl. I think this is a myth. Good QB's tend to make good WR's elite. Passing attempts also help. I think the reason WR's aren't standing out in Seattle is likely because Wilson throws 150-200 passes less a year than most of the top 10 QB's. I think the perfect example of this is Golden Tate going from a middling WR in Seattle to a stand out WR in Detroit while Calvin Johnson was gimped. 1,331 yards on 142 targets for Tate in Detroit in 2014 898 yards on 98 targets in Seattle in 2013 Edited July 22, 2015 by What a Tuel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 Bandit you can't write this type of garbage and then accuse SOMEONE ELSE of having a juvenile methodology... It doesn't work... Still, thanks for brilliantly deducing that this isnt a court of law. . No one ever said it was, but I'm glad you brought it up.. To me, this is an opportuity to inform any shmuck who takes it upon himself to opine on another's paycheck (particularly with designs on limiting it) -to have his facts in hand, and be ready to back his statement. I don't think that's asking too much.... Declarations concerning others carry with them an automatic burden of proof.. So please... Skip the sermon, and help YOUR OWN credibility by explaining why specifically Wilson is undeserving in your estimation.... Cite examples of how he fell short of expectations... Why is it so important that Wilson be behind Rogers in terms of pay? What, exactly, is garbage about what I wrote? Everything that I said was 100% factual. I'm quite comfortable with my credibility. You might ask what the effect of not being able to discuss/debate without tossing out insults in every single post is doing to yours. I must've missed the written policy that says that nobody else can have an opinion without an automatic burden of proof (which, by the way, others have very clearly defined their logic). I have, multiple times in this thread, stated why I think Wilson belongs behind Rodgers and Big Ben (just to recap: he's not as good a passer, he hasn't been the impetus for the team's victories the way the other two have--it's far more often been the defense, and there are limitations to his game that the other two don't have). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 What, exactly, is garbage about what I wrote? Everything that I said was 100% factual. I'm quite comfortable with my credibility. You might ask what the effect of not being able to discuss/debate without tossing out insults in every single post is doing to yours. I must've missed the written policy that says that nobody else can have an opinion without an automatic burden of proof (which, by the way, others have very clearly defined their logic). I have, multiple times in this thread, stated why I think Wilson belongs behind Rodgers and Big Ben (just to recap: he's not as good a passer, he hasn't been the impetus for the team's victories the way the other two have--it's far more often been the defense, and there are limitations to his game that the other two don't have). No you're wrong. He is the second best Quarterback in the NFL. The best is Brad Smith, obviously, even though he is not in the NFL.... cos.... well the NFL are all fools, fools he tells you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 No you're wrong. He is the second best Quarterback in the NFL. The best is Brad Smith, obviously, even though he is not in the NFL.... cos.... well the NFL are all fools, fools he tells you! Cheers good sir. As you know, I have zero problem with someone having a different opinion than mine. Kelly, for example, disagrees with me on Wilson, and is able to coherently discuss the issue without getting emotional. I think Wilson is a very, very good QB. I do not think he belongs making more money than Ben or Rodgers, nor do I believe he belongs as the highest paid player in the history of the NFL. I know that the precedent exists for making such a move, since Baltimore made Joe Flacco the highest-paid player in the game immediately after his Superbowl victory. To me, the difference is that Flacco was the team's offensive MVP that postseason, playing lights-out football in road wins over Denver and New England, and won Superbowl MVP as well. Wilson did not accomplish any of those feats. He had a brutal time against Green Bay at home, and when the biggest game of the year was put in his hands, he didn't deliver. There's no shame in being the 3rd-highest paid QB in the NFL, and I'm not knocking Wilson. I believe he's worth $21M/year...if someone has a way of finding that insulting, well... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanker Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 !@#$ Wilson. He plays on a different team. I hope he gets the shaft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 Yep I agree. Everyone else on both sides of this thread has discussed, made argument and counter argument.... I don't have any problem with people disagreeing. When it gets childish I find it very frustrating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D521646 Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 I think he's in Alex Smith range, moneywise.. Tim- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlayoffsPlease Posted July 26, 2015 Share Posted July 26, 2015 If Wilson were an unrestricted free agent this year, some team would make him the highest paid player in the NFL. There is almost no doubt about that. The problem is that he is not a restricted free agent and that diminishes his financial value. It makes little or no financial sense for the Seahawks to pay him as if he were an unrestricted free agent today. They have a remaining year under his rookie contract, and can franchise him for one season. If the only choice is to pay him more than any player in the NFL, they could also franchise him a second time (unusual, but maybe a better deal than paying him more than anyone else). So the Seahawks basicly have three years of Wilson locked up at a total rate well below being the highest paid QB in the NFL, and with almost no guaranteed money. Three years is a long time in the NFL for a running QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Cubed Posted July 26, 2015 Share Posted July 26, 2015 As someone without a dog in this fight, I have to say: your arguments and methodology appear juvenile. There's no "burden of proof"...this is a message board, not a court of law. Others have opinions that differ from yours, and they've clearly provided reasoning for why they have those opinions. That doesn't mean you have to agree, nor does it mean you have to respond with well-reasoned arguments of your own. It would, however, help your credibility if you took part in more logical discussion and less low-brow shot-taking. For my opinion: I don't think Wilson belongs being the highest-paid QB in the NFL. I could see him going for top-5 money (as I said before), somewhere between the $20M/year that Drew Brees and Joe Flacco got after winning their Superbowls and the $21.85M/year that Big Ben is currently making as a 2-time Superbowl winner. He does not, however, belong making more money than Aaron Rodgers or Big Ben IMO. The number that makes the most sense, to me, is $21M/year, since that would put him at 3rd amongst QBs, ahead of Cam Newton and Matt Ryan and behind Rodgers and Ben. Looks like you have it pegged exactly at what the Seahawks have Wilsons number at $21m. Which Wilson hasn't rejected. Hold up seems to be how much is guaranteed. @RapSheet: Update on @DangeRussWilson & #Seahawks contract talks: $21M per the latest offer, but cash up front is an issue. http://t.co/oMPrrt7QjZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 (edited) NFL network Dan H just said - No team throws the ball LESS than the Seahawks. They are a RUN first team and RW is holding out for a contract larger than that of Joe Flacco. Edited July 28, 2015 by BillsFan-4-Ever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 Looks like you have it pegged exactly at what the Seahawks have Wilsons number at $21m. Which Wilson hasn't rejected. Hold up seems to be how much is guaranteed. @RapSheet: Update on @DangeRussWilson & #Seahawks contract talks: $21M per the latest offer, but cash up front is an issue. http://t.co/oMPrrt7QjZ Makes sense. I think the team knows they're going to have to fully-guarantee a higher percentage if they want to get this done soon...it'll save them money in the long run, since he'll end up with a fully-guaranteed year under the tag next year anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 And then there's this: http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/07/28/seahawks-may-be-offering-wilson-21-million-in-new-money/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 And then there's this: http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/07/28/seahawks-may-be-offering-wilson-21-million-in-new-money/ Paul Allen is cheap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D521646 Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 I think that if the Hawks pay him that kind of cush, they will suffer elsewhere, and that will expose Wilson, IMO. I've never seen a game where Wilson took the team on his back and won it, like Brady, Rodgers, Manning et al.. Even Flacco has done this, but I could be wrong if someone could point me to a specific game where Wilson, and clearly Wilson alone won the Hawks a game! Tim- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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