Jets, Bills to pursue Revis (Update-Signed with Jets)

[Dorkington]

rookie DBs don't become shut down corners overnight. They might flash ability but it takes awhile to adjust to the nfl QBs, WRs and coverages. I think the Bills want it all now. Jmo.

They definitely don't, but sometimes you hit a homerun... just trying to think of compromises that wouldn't absolutely kill our cap space

 

The idea of a #1 defense is really cool... but I think our priority should be maintaining the defense we have, and then improving the offense as much as possible. But, as we saw in another thread... you're more knowledgeable than I with how our predictions turned out

 

Do you take:

 

#4 defense + #12 offense

 

or

 

# 1 defense + 20 offense

[Perk71]

Sign Revis (trade McKelvin), Demarco Murray (let Spiller walk) and Iupati (cut Chris Williams after June 1st). Take a TE in round 2. We go from paying lip service to being a run and defense team to having a chance at being the league's best run and defense team.

 

I agree with this option.

[Deranged Rhino]

They definitely don't, but sometimes you hit a homerun... just trying to think of compromises that wouldn't absolutely kill our cap space

 

The idea of a #1 defense is really cool... but I think our priority should be maintaining the defense we have, and then improving the offense as much as possible. But, as we saw in another thread... you're more knowledgeable than I with how our predictions turned out

 

Do you take:

 

#4 defense + #12 offense

 

or

 

# 1 defense + 20 offense

 

The #1 defense with the #20 offense might be enough to win the super bowl, depending on the difference between #12 and 20 in this hypothetical. People who think this defense can stand pat are fooling themselves. The NFL is a week to week league, let alone year to year. You need to be constantly bringing in pieces and talent to compliment what you have and what you lack. Revis would make this defense substantially better than it already is -- even without Hughes whom I love.

 

If the scenario is we add Revis and keep Spikes while letting Hughes walk, that's a win. There's more than enough money to sign Revis and still get the pieces we need on offense.

[Jamie Nails]

The notion that the offense will be worse if we sign Revis is flawed in my book. Yes more money will be allocated to an already stacked D, but we'd let Hughes and Spikes walk in this instance, which is almost comparable to what we'd end up paying Revis. We have a fair amount of cap space to play with and we're surely going to save more money by cutting guys like Pears. Also, the Roman hire alone will do more for this team than people expect. Having him in the fold will improve the team greatly before we even look to add additional pieces to the O in the offseason. No more Wilson is cheap and buddy is asleep at the wheel in Buffalo.

[dave mcbride]

Honestly, I think that going after Revis would not be wise. He's a great player, but the Bills are already better than solid at CB. Their offense is a disaster, however, and Ryan needs to demonstrate that he can bring offensive improvement. Even with that great defense, they were an 8-8 team this year (they would have been annihilated by the Pats if the game mattered) because of the offense. And that offense needs players.

[Kirby Jackson]

I really think that people are underestimating the difference in contracts. The highest paid corner in the league is $15M a year and Hughes is going to be about a $12M guy. The Bills are not in any sort of cap trouble. They will have to decide on one or the other but the offense will still be adequately addressed. The question keeps coming back to "are the Bills better with Revis or Hughes?" Whatever your feelings are on that should determine where you stand on the issue. The $ really isn't a big factor in this case because of how much room they have. They aren't going to have to make any sacrifices if they sign Revis or Hughes. The only way that the offense will not be addressed is if they sign them both (which they have the money to do).

 

The flip side which has yet to be talked about at length is to let them both walk and throw BIG resources at the offense. They could do something like Iupati and Julius Thomas if that were the case.

Edited February 3, 2015 by Kirby Jackson

[Deranged Rhino]

Honestly, I think that going after Revis would not be wise. He's a great player, but the Bills are already better than solid at CB. Their offense is a disaster, however, and Ryan needs to demonstrate that he can bring offensive improvement. Even with that great defense, they were an 8-8 team this year (they would have been annihilated by the Pats if the game mattered) because of the offense. And that offense needs players.

 

Bringing in the best player at his position in the NFL, who still has 5 years left (3 at FS), is never unwise. Especially when cap room isn't an issue. Bringing Revis in doesn't preclude the front office from addressing the needs on the other side of the ball, and the salary cap certainly doesn't prohibit it. Your hesitation seems to hinge on Ryan, which is strange. Are you saying if the Bills had hired Roman as the head coach and he wanted to bring in Revis it'd be okay because he doesn't "need to demonstrate he can bring offensive improvement"?

 

One doesn't preclude the other. Adding Revis would be a win for this team.

[Chuck Wagon]

I really think that people are underestimating the difference in contracts. The highest paid corner in the league is $15M a year and Hughes is going to be about a $12M guy. The Bills are not in any sort of cap trouble. They will have to decide on one or the other but the offense will still be adequately addressed. The question keeps coming back to "are the Bills better with Revis or Hughes?" Whatever your feelings are on that should determine where you stand on the issue. The $ really isn't a big factor in this case because of how much room they have. They aren't going to have to make any sacrifices if they sign Revis or Hughes. The only way that the offense will not be addressed is if they sign them both (which they have the money to do).

 

The flip side which has yet to be talked about at length is to let them both walk and throw BIG resources at the offense. They could do something like Iupati and Julius Thomas if that were the case.

 

 

To me Revis is an easy choice over Hughes and Julius Thomas. I expect Rex to be able to find a guy to do what Hughes does (likely a better fit than Hughes) for a fraction of the price Hughes would require. There's no one comparable to Revis and the likely replacement (McKelvin?) is going to be nowhere near Revis level. Revis-Gilmore-Graham gives us perhaps the best corner trio in the league, if the opportunity cost to that is a OLB likely to be overpaid and a questionable scheme fit then it's not even a conversation.

 

No to Thomas. The guy can't stay on the field and when he is on it he can't block. Our offense is likely going to need to look similar to what Denver will need to put around Peyton (ie run first) if they let Julius walk with little fight that says everything we need to know about him filling our need.

 

 

A corner upgrade, a real rb and a LG upgrade may look like luxuries to a lot of people, but that's one of the few benefits of not having a franchise QB, we have an extra ~$16 mil to spend that teams with a franchise QB locked up do not. We need to use this "advantage" to the best of our abilities and load up with as many "luxury" moves as possible.

[Kirby Jackson]

 

No to Thomas. The guy can't stay on the field and when he is on it he can't block. Our offense is likely going to need to look similar to what Denver will need to put around Peyton (ie run first) if they let Julius walk with little fight that says everything we need to know about him filling our need.

 

Just to be clear I am not necessarily advocating for that. I am just trying to present an alternative option to those worried about the offense. They can let Hughes walk and not sign Revis and go crazy on the offensive side of the ball. My personal feelings are they should sign Revis and Clint Boling as their FA acquisitions.

[Deranged Rhino]

Just to be clear I am not necessarily advocating for that. I am just trying to present an alternative option to those worried about the offense. They can let Hughes walk and not sign Revis and go crazy on the offensive side of the ball. My personal feelings are they should sign Revis and Clint Boling as their FA acquisitions.

 

Sign me up for that.

[John from Riverside]

I wouldn't. The talent gap between Hughes and backup, vs Revis and McKelvin is larger imo. McKelvin isn't great, but he was playing at a Pro Bowl level last year, and there's no reason why he can't continue on that path this year. Who do we have behind Hughes? Lawson? He's not that great of a pass rusher, and his motor is no where near Jerry's. Also, Hughes comes cheaper (most likely), which allows us to dedicate more money to the offense.

This is actually my only arguement against it

 

I want to know who replaces Hughes

[dave mcbride]

 

Bringing in the best player at his position in the NFL, who still has 5 years left (3 at FS), is never unwise. Especially when cap room isn't an issue. Bringing Revis in doesn't preclude the front office from addressing the needs on the other side of the ball, and the salary cap certainly doesn't prohibit it. Your hesitation seems to hinge on Ryan, which is strange. Are you saying if the Bills had hired Roman as the head coach and he wanted to bring in Revis it'd be okay because he doesn't "need to demonstrate he can bring offensive improvement"?

 

One doesn't preclude the other. Adding Revis would be a win for this team.

Bear in mind why the Bills are OK on the cap space front. They have no elite players on offense who aren't on rookie contracts. None. Their offense is terrible, partly because there is no one to pay. They don't have a starting-caliber RB now that Spiller is a FA, their QBs are terrible, their TEs are weak, and the o-line is one of the three or four worst in the league. They're solid at receiver, but you simply can't win in the NFL with a bad offense.

 

In the last dozen years, the Bills have done better than 19th in offense only once - in 2011, when they were a middling 14th. Here are their offensive rankings in those years. This is a freaking shameful record of futility.

 

2014: 26

2013: 19

2012 19

2011: 14

2010: 25

2009: 30

2008: 25

2007: 30

2006: 30

2005: 28

2004: 25

2003: 30

Edited February 3, 2015 by dave mcbride

[Zac]

I choose Hughes even though I think Revis could make us better this year. For a few reasons:

 

1. Hughes is younger and will have a longer impact.

2. The D-line is a tight-knit group. I like that chemistry. I'm not sure how spending cash on a guy like Revis, who is pretty much a mercenary at this point, instead of Hughes would sit with them. I know this is the NFL and it seems like a small thing, but I think it's important.

3. Hughes is not as replaceable as people think. He made plays last year that won us games. He isn't just a speed guy. I remember in the Lions game he bull-rushed the OT for a crucial sack. That forced fumble in the GB game isn't a play a lot of DE/LBs make. He was a first round talent for a reason.

Edited February 3, 2015 by Zac

[John from Riverside]

Bear in mind why the Bills are OK on the cap space front. They have no elite players on offense who aren't on rookie contracts. None. Their offense is terrible, partly because there is no one to pay. They don't have a starting-caliber RB now that Spiller is a FA, their QBs are terrible, their TEs are weak, and the o-line is one of the three or four worst in the league. They're solid at receiver, but you simply can't win in the NFL with a bad offense.

I would like to know (and will probably not find out till the season starts) how much of that bad offense is coaching.......

I choose Hughes even though I think Revis could make us better this year. For a few reasons:

 

1. Hughes is younger and will have a longer impact.

2. The D-line is a tight-knit group. I like that chemistry. I'm not sure how spending cash on a guy like Revis, who is pretty much a mercenary at this point, instead of Hughes would sit with them. I know this is the NFL and it seems like a small thing, but I think it's important.

3. Hughes is not as replaceable as people think. He made plays last year that won us games. He isn't just a speed guy. I remember in the Lions game he bull-rushed the OT for a crucial sack. That forced fumble in the GB game isn't a play a lot of DE/LBs make. He was a first round talent for a reason.

 

Zac...I am not beating up your post at all....but are you suggesting that our defense wouldnt like to play with a Revis?

 

I mean...just think about it for a minute.....your talking about a player that literally shuts down the other teams best WR.....doesnt matter who it is.....every game. Leaving Gilmore to shut down the number 2 guys.....leaving our 3rd best corner (who is starter quality) to cover the 3rd best and on an on.

 

For many of these offenses its a passing league....you cant pass if no one is open.

 

Hughes has done a fine job ressurecting his career in Buffalo given he was riding the bench with the colts......I love him as a player.....but not at the expense of an absolute game changer on defense.

 

The other thing to consider is this is a Rex Ryan defense.....corners are gonna have to hold their coverage and QB pressure comes from exotic blitz schemes.......having a pure pass rusher like Hughes suddenly is not as big of a need.

[dave mcbride]

I would like to know (and will probably not find out till the season starts) how much of that bad offense is coaching.......

See my edited post above. It's what I'd call a long-term trend that transcends individual coaches (of which there have been many).

Edited February 3, 2015 by dave mcbride

[Nanker]

 

 

besides the fact it makes perfect sense......

 

new england will not keep him at a cap hit of $25 mil for 2015. revis will become a UFA and new england will still try to resign him. if not NE then revis & rex is the next most likely scenario.

 

bills better be careful....NE already has tampering charges against the jets after owner woody johnson's comments.

 

That's a love fest thing they have going on there. They get into it every few years or so. It's like the owners trading wives.

 

#dont forget about Lou Potty.

 

Bear in mind why the Bills are OK on the cap space front. They have no elite players on offense who aren't on rookie contracts. None. Their offense is terrible, partly because there is no one to pay. They don't have a starting-caliber RB now that Spiller is a FA, their QBs are terrible, their TEs are weak, and the o-line is one of the three or four worst in the league. They're solid at receiver, but you simply can't win in the NFL with a bad offense.

 

In the last dozen years, the Bills have done better than 19th in offense only once - in 2011, when they were a middling 14th. Here are their offensive rankings in those years. This is a freaking shameful record of futility.

That's why they brought in Roman. It's his issue to fix, and he's quite capable.

It might not all get done in a year, but I do believe they will get it right.

 

 

I will say this about getting Revis here. It will mess with Brady's head.

[NastyNateSoldiers]

Revis would cost far more than 12 - 14 mil. More like 17-20.

Nobody absolutely Nobody is gonna pay him that kind of money. He's gonna get bout 13mil a yr tops.

[KD in CA]

Bear in mind why the Bills are OK on the cap space front. They have no elite players on offense who aren't on rookie contracts. None. Their offense is terrible, partly because there is no one to pay. They don't have a starting-caliber RB now that Spiller is a FA, their QBs are terrible, their TEs are weak, and the o-line is one of the three or four worst in the league. They're solid at receiver, but you simply can't win in the NFL with a bad offense.

 

Agreed, which says to me they might as well spend it on Revis. Other than a couple guys on the OL, where else are they going to spend the money? It's not like there are top QBs and TEs available and only fools overpay for RBs. Those positions will not be fixed until they find the right guys in the draft.

 

Essentially the Bills need to strike gold at QB on day 2 of the draft like Seattle did. Sadly, the odds of that happening seem remote for a team that has managed to find just 3 QBs in the draft in 50 years.

[NastyNateSoldiers]

 

The #1 defense with the #20 offense might be enough to win the super bowl, depending on the difference between #12 and 20 in this hypothetical. People who think this defense can stand pat are fooling themselves. The NFL is a week to week league, let alone year to year. You need to be constantly bringing in pieces and talent to compliment what you have and what you lack. Revis would make this defense substantially better than it already is -- even without Hughes whom I love.

 

If the scenario is we add Revis and keep Spikes while letting Hughes walk, that's a win. There's more than enough money to sign Revis and still get the pieces we need on offense.

Im hearing Greg Hardy can be had for cheap on a 1 yr prove it deal. I think he'd love to play with this D cause it's good business considering all the one on one's he'll be getting. This can be lethal sign Revis & Hardy. TRADE Mckelvin for draft pk.

[dave mcbride]

 

Agreed, which says to me they might as well spend it on Revis. Other than a couple guys on the OL, where else are they going to spend the money? It's not like there are top QBs and TEs available and only fools overpay for RBs. Those positions will not be fixed until they find the right guys in the draft.

 

Essentially the Bills need to strike gold at QB on day 2 of the draft like Seattle did. Sadly, the odds of that happening seem remote for a team that has managed to find just 3 QBs in the draft in 50 years.

Who besides Kelly and Lamonica - Fergy?

Im hearing Greg Hardy can be had for cheap on a 1 yr prove it deal. I think he'd love to play with this D cause it's good business considering all the one on one's he'll be getting. This can be lethal sign Revis & Hardy. TRADE Mckelvin for draft pk.

Greg Hardy appears to be a horrible human being: http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2014/07/15/5044910/panthers-greg-hardy-arrives-for.html#.VNFLPyw_x2A .

Edited February 3, 2015 by dave mcbride