Well, that was embarrassing.

[boyst]

agreed on the sentiments. dont be a stranger now that the game is passed. you probably wont get a ton of browns talk, but if johnny is playing theres bound to be an active handful of threads about them.

I know you get around the block often and I am sure you've seen plenty of other boards. There are about 45 frequently used team boards, of them only 3 or 4 are worth anything.

 

The KC board, this board, and the Panthers boards are the only ones I have found that can actually discuss things honestly while being civil.

 

If I was a Redskins, Browns or Jets fan the fanbases and boards would make me give up on the team.

[machine gun kelly]

CR- there is still some hope for you. i wrote yesterday not b/c of you, but some fans calling into NFL Radio on the Browns, but I wrote out the Browns played one defense in the top 16. I knew they would hit a buzz saw with us, but I like your team, you are always welcome here, and we have a lot in common us Browns and Bills fans. Conversely, the Bills have played (this is by memory) the 2nd, 5th, 7th, 8th, 9th, 12th, and 14th defenses and some twice. We have been battle tested against tough flipping defenses.

 

I just finished my work so looked up all of the teams with 7-5 or better records.

 

Yours is a favorable one with the following:

 

Colts

Bengals

Panthers

Ravens

 

You can win the middle two and possibly split the bookends. That compares well to other teams. Take a look.

 

Chargers Chiefs Ravens Steelers Dolphins Bills Browns

 

Pats Cardinals Dolphins Bengals Jets Broncos Colts

Broncos Raiders Jags Falcons Bengals Packers Bengals

49ers Steelers Texans Chiefs Pats Raiders Panthers

Chiefs Chargers Browns Bengals Vikings Pats Ravens

Jets

 

So the colts have the 23rd ranked defense, Bengals are the 22nd ranked defense, 17th with the Panthers, and 16th with the Ravens. It's not over bud, and as long as you don't take one of our 2 wildcard spots, I'm all in to root for you guys.

 

Look at the teams the Chargers, and Chiefs have to play as well as us. Just playing the odds the Ravens will probably steal a spot.

 

Anyway, come here as much as you want bud, and i hope I'm wrong and JM turns out to be a good QB. Gordon will get his groove soon. He's been out all year. Don't worry about Thomas. No one outside of Buffalo knows how good Jerry Hughes is in the NFL as a speed rusher, and he looks better as he has all of those other studs opposite of him.

[Cleveland Rocks?]

Thank you everyone. I appreciate this info. I remain hopeful! I never expected the Browns to even be in the playoff hunt, so I need to remind myself of that!

 

Since you guys have seen both... why do you think the Browns D (Pettine's scheme) is so weak against the run? I was watching Buffalo's defense and it seems like (someone was discussing this at the party I was at) they run a lot of stunts with the front 4 but basically say "come and get us" and nothing too tricky. And they don't give up the edge.

 

Whereas the Browns are trying to surprise the offense with disguises. It results in turnovers sometimes but can really hurt with giving up 3rd down/long drives. If the team can run then you can't get the ball back when you are trailing. Is it a talent issue with the Browns (we have some injuries on D) where we just don't have the same level of players or the right players for the scheme, or a result of Pettine/O'Neil's scheme?

Edited December 1, 2014 by Cleveland Rocks?

[1B4IDie]

Thank you everyone. I appreciate this info. I remain hopeful! I never expected the Browns to even be in the playoff hunt, so I need to remind myself of that!

 

Since you guys have seen both... why do you think the Browns D (Pettine's scheme) is so weak against the run? I was watching Buffalo's defense and it seems like (someone was discussing this at the party I was at) they run a lot of stunts with the front 4 but basically say "come and get us" and nothing too tricky. And they don't give up the edge.

 

Whereas the Browns are trying to surprise the offense with disguises. It results in turnovers sometimes but can really hurt with giving up 3rd down/long drives. If the team can run then you can't get the ball back when you are trailing. Is it a talent issue with the Browns (we have some injuries on D) where we just don't have the same level of players or the right players for the scheme, or a result of Pettine/O'Neil's scheme?

Big Difference

Swartz philosophy is "I have the best D-Line in the NFL and I know all of them can beat double teams so good luck trying to single any of them. We will pwn your QB eventually."He also believes in a heavy D-Line rotation. Which keeps Kyle and Dareus fresh. A Fresh Kyle Willimas and Dareus against a winded Guard in the 4th QTR = QBs on the ground.

 

Pettine was too cute. He definitely can game sacks and get some INTs as a result of the disguised pressure but clearly his defense gets gashed by the run.

 

To be fair the Bills LBs are much improved in 2014 as compared to 2013 which helps with the run defense but I really like how Swartz uses his players.

Pettine's system is probably better with less talented players but the Bills defense is mostly 1st and 2nd round picks. Schwartz just puts the Bills superior pure talent in positions to win. Less cute more just Bullying the opposing offense.

I don't know what Schwart D would look like with a bad D Line. He went from a motivated Haynesworth to Suh/Fairely to Mario freakin Williams, Marcell Dareus, Kyle Williams and Jerry Hughes (#1 overall pick, #3 overall pick, #9 overall pick and Kyle Williams) must be nice to coach that talent.

Edited December 1, 2014 by Why So Serious?

[thebandit27]

Thank you everyone. I appreciate this info. I remain hopeful! I never expected the Browns to even be in the playoff hunt, so I need to remind myself of that!

 

Since you guys have seen both... why do you think the Browns D (Pettine's scheme) is so weak against the run? I was watching Buffalo's defense and it seems like (someone was discussing this at the party I was at) they run a lot of stunts with the front 4 but basically say "come and get us" and nothing too tricky. And they don't give up the edge.

 

Whereas the Browns are trying to surprise the offense with disguises. It results in turnovers sometimes but can really hurt with giving up 3rd down/long drives. If the team can run then you can't get the ball back when you are trailing. Is it a talent issue with the Browns (we have some injuries on D) where we just don't have the same level of players or the right players for the scheme, or a result of Pettine/O'Neil's scheme?

 

A lot of it is LB play and personnel.

 

Buffalo's run D had really blossomed with bigger LBs like Brown/Bradham/Spikes in the game.

 

Pettine seems to be more interested in speed at the LB position at the cost of being weaker at the POA.

 

I think the Browns may want to invest a bit at the ILB position in the offseason.

[Cleveland Rocks?]

That all makes sense although we were led to believe by our media the Bills D was just a continuation of Pettine's scheme from last year. Then I watched them closely for the first time and looks so different. I think some of our outside LBs are DEs trying to fit into a 3-4 scheme. Also we lack depth which seems to be in abundance in Buffalo. One week Kruger and Sheard will be all over the place, the next week they look worn out. These guys are on the field every down and they aren't "every down" LBs.

 

We drafted Christian Kirksey from Iowa to be a ILB and kind of eventually replace Dansby. He has been pretty good but Dansby is a big loss. We also seemed to be able to stop the run much better when Phil Taylor was in. Fortuntely I think Pettine can coach guys up to play above their talent.

 

Its so disappointing to have traded up for Justin Gilbert at 8 and passed on all those stud WRs, only to have Gilbert ride the pine.

Edited December 1, 2014 by Cleveland Rocks?

[Augie]

Manziel gives us some hope. But there is always a learning curve for rookies, and we go up against the Colts this week. Then we have 3 division games. It is a very tough road. Hope he shows something to keep hope alive!

 

Not sure how long he'll hold up with his size and stye of play. These are big, dangerous men every week (ask RG III). My favorite play of the game was Kyle Williams landing on Johnny - even with the mysterious call reversal robbing us of a TD. Like Pettine's D, Johnny will be exciting!

[nucci]

All the comments about the Bills not running more....we have a terrible run game!! Freddie is banged up a bit and slowing down. Our interior line can not run block and we have no big play threat at RB

[BigBuff423]

Classy and well done Cleveland...sincerely, thanks for taking the time to send a "Congrats" to fans of a rival team. You, are a great representation of what being a fan is all about: passionate but personally respectful - love the game and want to win without making it derogatory about others. Sincerely, wish Cleveland the best - until they meet the BILLS again, lol - and hope for good things for fans like you.

[Formerly Allan in MD]

Manziel can play. Play him otherwise he'll never develop. I'm not sure he has that far to go in any case. Perhaps he needs some seasoning in Buffalo.

[machine gun kelly]

That all makes sense although we were led to believe by our media the Bills D was just a continuation of Pettine's scheme from last year. Then I watched them closely for the first time and looks so different. I think some of our outside LBs are DEs trying to fit into a 3-4 scheme. Also we lack depth which seems to be in abundance in Buffalo. One week Kruger and Sheard will be all over the place, the next week they look worn out. These guys are on the field every down and they aren't "every down" LBs.

 

We drafted Christian Kirksey from Iowa to be a ILB and kind of eventually replace Dansby. He has been pretty good but Dansby is a big loss. We also seemed to be able to stop the run much better when Phil Taylor was in. Fortuntely I think Pettine can coach guys up to play above their talent.

 

Its so disappointing to have traded up for Justin Gilbert at 8 and passed on all those stud WRs, only to have Gilbert ride the pine.

 

CR - I expect that every week from the media who doesn't do their homework, and relies on a few points here and there. an earlier point is Wahley picked up some nice rotational talent for us in Wynn and Charles keeping Dareus and crew fresh. And yes, our LB crew is quite a bit bigger and tougher against running teams. You answered your own question with Pettine being very deceptive to opposing teams in that he doesn't blitz a ton, but you don't know where the pressure is coming from and the players in your defense are taught to play multiple roles. It's interesting in his concepts but as you see last year from us (28th against the run), and now this year with you (29th against the run) he leaves you open to problems.

 

i still though believe Pettine is a fine coach, and will turn the Browns into winners. I like him, and keep your hope buddy. I promise if we get knocked out of the picture (praying we don't), and your still in the hunt, I'm rooting for the Browns. Your our Lake Erie brothers. I'd love to see one of us knock out the usual suspects (Ravens, Chiefs, Steelers etc.)

[Buffalo Barbarian]

Congrats, Bills fans! So much for our playoff hopes and our top 10 offense. It was fun while it lasted, but "same old Browns."

 

Josh Gordon looked really lazy running his routes and you would think his head would be in the game with the amount of targets he had. Apparently according to our coaches, your defense was doing some things to confuse him. Joe Thomas was horrendous. I know you have a good front 4 but the only guy before Jerry Hughes I've seen him have that kind of problem with is Dwight Freeney. With a speed guy rushing the passer on every play JT can't contain him.

 

I was surprised the Bills didn't run the ball more in the 1st half. We have a good passing D and bad run D.

 

Do the Bills bench QBs as their job?

 

Do you always hit that hard? Man. Austin out. Barnidge out.

 

Our rookie RBs were lost. They can't block and they couldn't get anything going.

 

Donte Whitner - Thanks for firing up the other team with your mouth and then not even freaking showing up. Pissed about this!

 

Pettine still hasn't made a decision on QB and Hoyer was making all kinds of excuses as to why he didn't have a good game. Fun week in Cleveland!

 

Good luck the rest of the season.

 

Johny Football coming up :thumbsup:

[Beerball]

Thank you everyone. I appreciate this info. I remain hopeful! I never expected the Browns to even be in the playoff hunt, so I need to remind myself of that!

 

so, you'll give us that #1 back?

[GunnerBill]

CR - I expect that every week from the media who doesn't do their homework, and relies on a few points here and there. an earlier point is Wahley picked up some nice rotational talent for us in Wynn and Charles keeping Dareus and crew fresh. And yes, our LB crew is quite a bit bigger and tougher against running teams. You answered your own question with Pettine being very deceptive to opposing teams in that he doesn't blitz a ton, but you don't know where the pressure is coming from and the players in your defense are taught to play multiple roles. It's interesting in his concepts but as you see last year from us (28th against the run), and now this year with you (29th against the run) he leaves you open to problems.

 

i still though believe Pettine is a fine coach, and will turn the Browns into winners. I like him, and keep your hope buddy. I promise if we get knocked out of the picture (praying we don't), and your still in the hunt, I'm rooting for the Browns. Your our Lake Erie brothers. I'd love to see one of us knock out the usual suspects (Ravens, Chiefs, Steelers etc.)

 

That's all true - I would add something else too... in my mind Pettine was only a genuine DC for 1 year - here in Buffalo. His 3 years as Rex's coordinator in New York it was Pettine running the Rex Ryan defense and I think it is more than reasonable to assume that Rex was making sure it was done his way. I think therefore that Pettine still has some learning to do in terms of the balance of his scheme. Schwartz was an experienced DC who had some success in this league in that role before getting his HC gig. He has had longer to tweak, refine etc.

 

Make no mistake Marrone had told Pettine before the whole Browns thing came up that he had to fix the run D and fix the 3rd down D this season. I think in terms of his development as a defensive mind it would have been beneficial to Pettine to stay here and take on that challenge and see if he could make those adjustments. Now he was never going to turn the opportunity with Cleveland down, nor should he have, I'm just saying in terms of him being a really top notch defensive mind it might have been good for him. I presume you are matched with the NFC North next year are you? That should prove a tougher test than the NFC South did this year and so there may be some slight stepping back next year. But the Browns should stick with Pet..... they have a good one there. He changed the culture on this defense completely from talented underachievers to fearsome opponents and in that sense (if not in scheme) Schwartz has been building on Pettine's work.

[maddenboy]

 

Since you guys have seen both... why do you think the Browns D (Pettine's scheme) is so weak against the run?

 

When we got Pettine last year, I remember a piece where they analyzed the Front Seven. In NYJ, the scheme was to get pressure up the middle with the DTs. To play the run on the way to the QB, not to clog lanes or keep the LBs clean or any of that stuff.

 

In NYJ, they had long, lean DTs and that was what they kept drafting. Sheldon Richardson and Muhammad Wilkerson were both long and lean.

 

Then Pettine got to Buffalo. With short-stocky DTs instead of long-lean. I think that short-stocky does a better job of playing the run (on the way to the QB), while long-lean does a better job of rushing the QB.

 

So, I'd guess you Browns will start drafting players to fit Pettine's preferred style. Which is to say, I dont think he prioritizes stopping the run.

[Gordio]

Thanks guys. It was the best team we played all year. And your stadium (although I could not afford to go I had friends who went) sounded like it was very intimidating. I know you are entering the "gated community" of NFL teams on your schedule coming up, but you sure have some elite players to build on.

 

I was wondering about the hit from 53 (?) on Barnidge. Usually a personal foul? Oh well, it wasn't our day I guess.

 

When Haden blocked the FG before the half I really thought that was a sign and then the Bills throw an INT on first possession of 2nd half! There was a sack on Hoyer (and he almost never gets sacked) that took them out of FG range and the game was over after that. Huge momentum swing.

 

Thanks. Our stadium it is one of the few old school stadiums left that really has a great atmosphere. An article captured it best when it says "going to a game at the Ralph on a Sunday to watch the bills play is like going to a high school football game on steroids". It really has a bit of a college football atmosphere feel to it. I hate to say it but I think given the schedules, even with the loss your Browns have a better chance to make the playoffs then the Bills. IMO all this win did was keep the season interesting one more week for the Bills. We gave away to many games earlier this season(Houston, KC, 2nd Miami game). With Manning, Rodgers & Brady 3 out of the next 4 weeks my guess is the Bills will end up 8-8, 9-7 at best & that won't be good enough this year. Looking at Cleveland's schedule, while not easy I think you guys could get to 10-6 if you get some better play from the QB position. Good luck rest of the season.

[BillsFan-4-Ever]

I'd like to say I'd root for them but .... Sorry I can't do it.

 

Johnny has a new commercial coming out --

 

 

 

 

Edited December 2, 2014 by BillsFan-4-Ever

[CodeMonkey]

#Manzieling ... love it

[Meark]

 

 

Crowell fumble returned for a TD.

 

 

 

It was Terrance West that fumbled, not Crowell.

[filthymcnasty08]

Much respect to you CR for posting a tip of the hat to your opponent. ...class gesture. We're definitely bros separated by a lake and bound by football-related pain and suffering.

 

we will prevail!

 

I visited Cle a couple weeks ago and saw the spurs play the cavs. ...great sports town, great people. You deserve a title.