Ferguson

[Dante]

The Police asking for an apology is proof the police are completely out of touch with reality. People, even athletes, have the right to protest anything they want.

Who's more out of touch with reality? High profile athletes or cops? Like these guys are qualified to take a political stand on anything. Not that I disagree with your point on their right but maybe they should just realize they can play football that's really it. It doesn't make them politically aware or bright just because people kiss their butt every day.

[Nanker]

IMHO the people that are out of touch with reality are the ones who are following the "hands up - don't shoot" meme that was proven to be absolutely false. They're perpetuating a fraud and reduce their credibility of the discussion about the real problems of race relations we have in this nation. B. O. and his henchmen are not helping the situation.

Edited December 3, 2014 by Nanker

[Rob's House]

IMHO the people that are out of touch with reality are the ones who are following the "hands up - don't shoot" meme that was proven to be absolutely false. They're perpetuating a fraud and reduce their credibility of the discussion about the real problems of race relations we have in this nation. B. O. and his henchmen are not helping the situation.

 

As much as it pisses me off, I actually think they are helping the situation. By acting this way in a situation where most people know it's bull ****, they're making it plain as day that they aren't to be taken seriously and that charges of racism, even when picked up nationally, are usually bull ****.

Edited December 3, 2014 by Rob's House

[Keukasmallies]

As much as it pisses me off, I actually think they are helping the situation. By acting this way in a situation where most people know it's bull ****, they're making it plain as day that they aren't to be taken seriously and that charges of racism, even when picked up nationally, are usually bull ****.

 

Agree

[bbb]

As much as it pisses me off, I actually think they are helping the situation. By acting this way in a situation where most people know it's bull ****, they're making it plain as day that they aren't to be taken seriously and that charges of racism, even when picked up nationally, are usually bull ****.

 

The thing I hate is you read twitter, and 99% of black people tweeting are still going with that narrative, along with a good number of liberal whites. So, it seems it doesn't matter.

[Rob's House]

 

 

The thing I hate is you read twitter, and 99% of black people tweeting are still going with that narrative, along with a good number of liberal whites. So, it seems it doesn't matter.

 

It's definitely opened my eyes to the racism that is prevalent in black America. I'm glad I have a handful of black friends to remind me that it's not all of them, and it really isn't all of them, but it's most of them. That could just as easily be me in Wilson's shoes and people I thought of as friends would be calling for my head, if they didn't know me, based solely on race. And they'd be calling me the racist.

 

[ExiledInIllinois]

That's the one thing I don't understand. If you're in a car at a stoplight and people walk up and start hitting your car with hammers, why get out of the car? Drive off. Run the light, don't get out of the car.

 

Exactly.

 

Self-preservation is lost on many with judging "fight or flight." Sure one can get out of the vehicle and investigate, just make sure you bring @ least one of your two buddies along to the hammer fight. You know, Smith & Wesson, or Mr. Ruger.

 

To the "Stop shooting us" crowd... They will, when you stop making poor choices.

[boyst]

IMHO the people that are out of touch with reality are the ones who are following the "hands up - don't shoot" meme that was proven to be absolutely false. They're perpetuating a fraud and reduce their credibility of the discussion about the real problems of race relations we have in this nation. B. O. and his henchmen are not helping the situation.

I love that there are reports out there that list as many as 16 witnesses and others that the GJ met with who claim his hands were up. People who support the hands up part of this story use that as their fall back.

[ExiledInIllinois]

 

The St Louis police want these guys fined or suspended and an apology. The Rams said no way. The NFL said they won't do anything.

 

Can't wait until one of these idiots is pulled over for speeding.

 

I got no problem with it. Now if the cops do what you say, it just proves the other side's point... That they are corrupt. Why should we pander to the cops just because they have a tough job? Just do your job and shut up. Darren Wilson was just doing his job.

 

Let the players act like ill informed fools.

 

Again: "All great nations have their heros, it's the sad nation that needs them."

[Rob's House]

Unarmed white teenager shot by police. Oops, he was 20. One year younger and we'd have half a headline.

 

http://downtrend.com/71superb/unarmed-white-man-shot-by-police-no-riots-al-sharpton-silent-obama-keeps-golfing/

Edited December 3, 2014 by Rob's House

[Deranged Rhino]

Who's more out of touch with reality? High profile athletes or cops? Like these guys are qualified to take a political stand on anything.

 

They're US citizens. They have just as much right as you do to say and protest whatever they want. They just have a larger platform that they can do with as they chose to their benefit or to their detriment. It's still not up to the police to ever dictate to them about what they can or cannot say. It's a symptom of a larger problem and more people should be outraged by it than by what the players did. At least in my view.

[ExiledInIllinois]

 

 

They're US citizens. They have just as much right as you do to say and protest whatever they want. They just have a larger platform that they can do with as they chose to their benefit or to their detriment. It's still not up to the police to ever dictate to them about what they can or cannot say. It's a symptom of a larger problem and more people should be outraged by it than by what the players did. At least in my view.

 

This^

 

They are cops... Of course they want them suspended and fined, that's what cops do... How do you think villages & towns make their money.

 

They are like Richie Cunningham in ROTC... "You're on report! You're on report! Everybody is on report!"

 

Type A douchebags. That doesn't mean Wilson was wrong. Even though he was practically a kid himself @ 28.

Edited December 3, 2014 by ExiledInIllinois

[Rob's House]

 

 

They're US citizens. They have just as much right as you do to say and protest whatever they want. They just have a larger platform that they can do with as they chose to their benefit or to their detriment. It's still not up to the police to ever dictate to them about what they can or cannot say. It's a symptom of a larger problem and more people should be outraged by it than by what the players did. At least in my view.

 

I just hate them for being idiotic racist ass holes.

 

I'm not calling for them to be punished, but to borrow a page from the Birddog brigade on Rice/Peterson, Try using your position with a major corporation to advance your personal political agenda (particularly on a highly controversial topic) while wearing the company logo, and see how that works out for you.

[bbb]

I love that there are reports out there that list as many as 16 witnesses and others that the GJ met with who claim his hands were up. People who support the hands up part of this story use that as their fall back.

 

I'm hearing about this from liberals on the Springsteen board. Are these 16 credible?

[Rob's House]

 

 

This^

 

They are cops... Of course they want them suspended and fined, that's what cops do... How do you think villages & towns make their money.

 

They are like Richie Cunningham in ROTC... "You're on report! You're on report! Everybody is on report!"

 

Type A douchebags. That doesn't mean Wilson was wrong. Even though he was practically a kid himself @ 28.

 

Plenty of cops are ass holes, but a lot (I'd say most) are just regular guys. If you judge someone guilty based not on the facts, but on race/status, then you're no different from the guy burning a cross in a hood & robe.

[ExiledInIllinois]

If you judge someone guilty based not on the facts, but on race/status, then you're no different from the guy burning a cross in a hood & robe.

 

True. I just get why the St. Louis cops are all up in arms (is that a pun) about the Rams players. They use their status to advance their agenda too.

 

[Deranged Rhino]

I just hate them for being idiotic racist ass holes.

 

I'm not calling for them to be punished, but to borrow a page from the Birddog brigade on Rice/Peterson, Try using your position with a major corporation to advance your personal political agenda (particularly on a highly controversial topic) while wearing the company logo, and see how that works out for you.

 

I'm not even talking about what they're protesting about, it's immaterial to what upset me about the SLPOA response. If the NFL had come down on them or the Rams my tone would be entirely different. It doesn't bother me that average folks are upset about the protest, they have every right to their opinions on it. But police can't, and shouldn't, take sides on what's in or out of bounds in terms of freedom of speech. ESPECIALLY when the protest is directed against the police themselves.

 

The individual cop has every right to be upset and grumble, they have first amendment rights too -- when they're off duty.

[LeviF]

The individual cop has every right to be upset and grumble, they have first amendment rights too -- when they're off duty.

 

Just like the individual Rams have free speech rights when they're off the clock. Just about all of our 1st Amendment rights are left at the door when we punch that clock. It has nothing to do with freedom of speech. That you keep saying that it does baffles me.

Edited December 3, 2014 by LeviF91

[Deranged Rhino]

Just like the individual Rams have free speech rights when they're off the clock. Just about all of our 1st Amendment rights are left at the door when we punch that clock. It has nothing to do with freedom of speech. That you keep saying that it does baffles me.

 

It has everything to do with it. Again, it's not their employers who are upset, if they were it'd be a different conversation. It's the police demanding a private organization punish private citizens for daring to speak out against the police. Maybe you like living in a police state, I prefer a country where we have the right to say whatever we want -- especially about the police.

[FireChan]

I don't know if this was posted, but this is why Chuck is the best.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ehYIR26ZsK4

[Joe Miner]

 

It has everything to do with it. Again, it's not their employers who are upset, if they were it'd be a different conversation. It's the police demanding a private organization punish private citizens for daring to speak out against the police. Maybe you like living in a police state, I prefer a country where we have the right to say whatever we want -- especially about the police.

Stick to comedies, dramas aren't your strong suit.

[ExiledInIllinois]

 

 

It has everything to do with it. Again, it's not their employers who are upset, if they were it'd be a different conversation. It's the police demanding a private organization punish private citizens for daring to speak out against the police. Maybe you like living in a police state, I prefer a country where we have the right to say whatever we want -- especially about the police.

 

Exactly! What gives the cops a **** to demand this. ?? What is this grade school? Way outta bounds. If the NFL wanted to punish it, then fine. They don't need the cops butting in like babies demanding that the NFL take care of this. If anything, it had the opposite effect. If I was the NFL, I would now do the exact opposite. Should have kept their traps shut.

 

Snitch and whine culture... Sorry jack boot cops, it don't work that way. And I even took your side w/Darrin Wilson. You wonder why they have an image & public trust problem in and around St. Louis. Totally overstepping their bounds.

[Deranged Rhino]

Stick to comedies, dramas aren't your strong suit.

 

So you think it's okay for the police to determine what is or is not appropriate when it comes to free speech? Again, forget the merits of the protest and think about what the police are actually saying with this ridiculous statement. They're the last organization in the country that should EVER take a stance on a first amendment issue unless it's to defend it -- especially when the issue is about criticizing the police themselves.

 

You might not agree with this issue, but you might care about the next one. It sets an alarming precedent -- or attempts to.

Edited December 3, 2014 by GreggyT

[Alaska Darin]

Obviously most people are small picture thinkers, which is why we end up with the political representation we do.

[3rdnlng]

So you think it's okay for the police to determine what is or is not appropriate when it comes to free speech? Again, forget the merits of the protest and think about what the police are actually saying with this ridiculous statement. They're the last organization in the country that should EVER take a stance on a first amendment issue unless it's to defend it -- especially when the issue is about criticizing the police themselves.

 

You might not agree with this issue, but you might care about the next one. It sets an alarming precedent -- or attempts to.

It is obvious not in the police's authority to determine what political expression is allowed unless it is somehow breaking the law. Since it wasn't within their authority they can't demand it but certainly have their own free speech rights and have every right to request it. So there.

[KD in CA]

So you think it's okay for the police to determine what is or is not appropriate when it comes to free speech? Again, forget the merits of the protest and think about what the police are actually saying with this ridiculous statement. They're the last organization in the country that should EVER take a stance on a first amendment issue unless it's to defend it -- especially when the issue is about criticizing the police themselves.

 

You might not agree with this issue, but you might care about the next one. It sets an alarming precedent -- or attempts to.

 

It seems what you are saying is cops don't have the same freedom of expression that the football players do. The SLPOA isn't dictating anything; they are expressing an opinion just like the Rams did. I still don't see the problem. They are citizens too.

 

 

The NFL made the obviously correct decision to ignore the complaint and not turn the spotlight on themselves.

[B-Man]

So you think it's okay for the police to determine what is or is not appropriate when it comes to free speech?

 

You might not agree with this issue, but you might care about the next one. It sets an alarming precedent -- or attempts to.

 

 

No one is saying that the police gets to set the standard.

 

but in this case, they are the SPECIFIC group that is "offended",

 

They are asking in that capacity, not as the authority.

[Security]

As much as it pisses me off, I actually think they are helping the situation. By acting this way in a situation where most people know it's bull ****, they're making it plain as day that they aren't to be taken seriously and that charges of racism, even when picked up nationally, are usually bull ****.

 

I can see no way that thinking this BS makes this better, it makes people who are sympathetic reverse their course in my opinion. It makes sane people who understand that blacks saying they are under attack are complete morons, I think it makes people take back the benefit of the doubt that they formally were giving.

[LeviF]

It has everything to do with it. Again, it's not their employers who are upset, if they were it'd be a different conversation. It's the police demanding a private organization punish private citizens for daring to speak out against the police. Maybe you like living in a police state, I prefer a country where we have the right to say whatever we want -- especially about the police.

 

Your faux outrage is cute, but not grounded in reality. They're not demanding anything, at least not with any potency. They made a request to the employers of a group of men who made a very public demonstration while at their workplace. The employers did what they felt was best and denied the request. Cops didn't ride up in there and demand apologies or blood offering at gunpoint. They made a request. They, as an organization which has the avenues and the opportunities to express the organization's views in accordance with their own first amendment rights, made a request.

 

Let's review: their organization has First Amendment rights. The players paid by the Rams, for all intents and purposes, do not have First Amendment rights while they are on the clock for their employer. So a group with collective free speech rights asked an employer with free speech rights to discipline their employees who used speech when they do not have free speech rights. The request was denied. Outrage averted (unless you're Greg or a race baiter or some sort of leftist who thinks that police are the greatest evil of our time [look, I can be dramatic too!]).

 

You want it to be about free speech, so framed everything here around free speech. The only people without free speech rights in this whole mess are the players involved, so I'm still not sure why you're so butt-hurt.

 

P.S. If you've been around these parts and paying any sort of attention over the past four or five years, you'd know exactly what I think about police, police states, militarization of police forces, etc. Regardless of how little you know about them, my thoughts on the subject have no bearing on what I think about your arguments, which are silly.

[Nanker]

http://www.usatoday....-rams/19773415/

Saint Louie bar giving the Rams the shiv.

Edited December 3, 2014 by Nanker

[Security]

http://www.usatoday....-rams/19773415/

Saint Louie bar giving the Rams the shiv.

 

hAHAHA, they are getting tons of 1 stars on yelp now.

 

Soon you will need to do paid services like Angie's List to get anything close to accurate in reviews.

[IDBillzFan]

It has everything to do with it. Again, it's not their employers who are upset, if they were it'd be a different conversation. It's the police demanding a private organization punish private citizens for daring to speak out against the police. Maybe you like living in a police state, I prefer a country where we have the right to say whatever we want -- especially about the police.

 

I say this not directly to you because all you'll do is explain how you're not a progressive. However, you are toeing the progressive line on this, so it's worth pointing out how Progressives are a funny group.

 

Consider that Rams players do a moronic protest on national TV, police ask for an apology, and progressives yell how the players have EVERY right to do what they did based on the First Amendment, even if it's on their employer's clock.

 

But let a Republican aide post a Facebook comment about the way the president's daughters dress for a public appearance, and progressives don't stop bitching and moaning until the aide is out of work.

 

Must be great to always be right simply because you can change the rules.

Edited December 3, 2014 by LABillzFan

[Alaska Darin]

Bet Leonard Little wouldn't support the current players in their"protest" against the STLPD

[TakeYouToTasker]

No one is saying that the police gets to set the standard.

 

but in this case, they are the SPECIFIC group that is "offended",

 

They are asking in that capacity, not as the authority.

Braches of the government have no rights at all, and it's appauling that anyone would approve of a governmental entity being offended by free speech.

 

They are asking, as an authority, because that's all that they are.

 

I say this not directly to you because all you'll do is explain how you're not a progressive. However, you are toeing the progressive line on this, so it's worth pointing out how Progressives are a funny group.

 

Consider that Rams players do a moronic protest on national TV, police ask for an apology, and progressives yell how the players have EVERY right to do what they did based on the First Amendment, even if it's on their employer's clock.

 

But let a Republican aide post a Facebook comment about the way the president's daughters dress for a public appearance, and progressives don't stop bitching and moaning until the aide is out of work.

 

Must be great to always be right simply because you can change the rules.

No, Greg is 100% in the right on this issue.

 

It's offensive, and wildly inappropriate, that a government agency would demand an appology, and further, would demand retribution, for individuals engaging in free speech.

 

What the NFL decideds to do is immaterial.

 

Your faux outrage is cute, but not grounded in reality. They're not demanding anything, at least not with any potency. They made a request to the employers of a group of men who made a very public demonstration while at their workplace. The employers did what they felt was best and denied the request. Cops didn't ride up in there and demand apologies or blood offering at gunpoint. They made a request. They, as an organization which has the avenues and the opportunities to express the organization's views in accordance with their own first amendment rights, made a request.

 

Let's review: their organization has First Amendment rights. The players paid by the Rams, for all intents and purposes, do not have First Amendment rights while they are on the clock for their employer. So a group with collective free speech rights asked an employer with free speech rights to discipline their employees who used speech when they do not have free speech rights. The request was denied. Outrage averted (unless you're Greg or a race baiter or some sort of leftist who thinks that police are the greatest evil of our time [look, I can be dramatic too!]).

 

You want it to be about free speech, so framed everything here around free speech. The only people without free speech rights in this whole mess are the players involved, so I'm still not sure why you're so butt-hurt.

 

P.S. If you've been around these parts and paying any sort of attention over the past four or five years, you'd know exactly what I think about police, police states, militarization of police forces, etc. Regardless of how little you know about them, my thoughts on the subject have no bearing on what I think about your arguments, which are silly.

Neither the government, nor agents of the government, have rights.

 

The police are not a private organization. They are the executive branch of the government.

 

Individual officers have rights as individuals when not acting as agents of the government, but this is not the case in question.

[Alaska Darin]

Dear everyone: The St Louis Police Officer's Association IS NOT a government entity.

 

Carry on.

[IDBillzFan]

No, Greg is 100% in the right on this issue.

 

It's offensive, and wildly inappropriate, that a government agency would demand an appology, and further, would demand retribution, for individuals engaging in free speech.

 

Explain that to Elizabeth Lauten.

 

More to the point, I'm not arguing that Greg is wrong. I'm arguing that progressives are nothing but a bunch of hypocrites when it comes to something like the First Amendment.

[LeviF]

Neither the government, nor agents of the government, have rights.

 

The police are not a private organization. They are the executive branch of the government.

 

Individual officers have rights as individuals when not acting as agents of the government, but this is not the case in question.

 

Actual question that I haven't found an answer to: is the SLPOA a government entity? I thought it was more like a benevolent association, which operates separate from the police and not as agents of the government.

 

Edit: I guess Darin answered my question. The answer is no.

Edited December 3, 2014 by LeviF91

[B-Man]

Dear everyone: The St Louis Police Officer's Association IS NOT a government entity.

 

Carry on.

 

Thank you.

 

and I didn't imply approval, just that they were the group offended.

 

 

 

.

[TakeYouToTasker]

Dear everyone: The St Louis Police Officer's Association IS NOT a government entity.

 

Carry on.

It's a organization designed to "protect the rights of police officers".

 

Their membership includes active officers (government agents).

 

The officers membership in this organization is as a function of their role as government agents, not private citizens.

 

When a group of government agents band together to form a "private organization" in order to further their agenda as government agents, as stated in the organization's own charter; it doesn't serve to blur the line, and make that advocacy OK. It's simply a disgusting attempt to mask the intentions of government agents, especially when the demands of the organization are to muffle free speech directed at the member government agents.

Edited December 3, 2014 by TakeYouToTasker

[LeviF]

It's a organization designed to "protect the rights of police officers".

 

Their membership includes active officers (government agents).

 

The officers membership in this organization is as a function of their role as government agents, not private citizens.

 

When a group of government agents band together to form a "private organization" in order to further their agenda as government agents, as stated in the organization's own charter; it doesn't serve to blur the line, and make that advocacy OK. It's simply a disgusting attempt to mask the intentions of government agents, especially when the demands of the organization are to muffle free speech directed at the member government agents.

 

So...it's a union?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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