At this point, does anyone think we keep Spiller?

[mrags]

CJ is an amazing player. Other teams' fans hold their breath when he gets the ball. He is going to have some really big games this season. I hope the Bills resign him.

haha

[LabattBlue]

...freddy doesn't have a problem with it.

Duh. Jackson is a different type of runner who also is probably 20 pounds bigger than Spiller, and built to run between the tackles. This is a case of a coach(es) trying to put a square peg into a round hole instead of taking advantage of player strengths.

 

BTW...If Spiller is such a bust, why did he have success under Gailey. My guess is that in 2012 when he was having a very good season under Gailey that you were probably drooling over him.

[KDIGGZ]

now that we have a QB that extend the field and throw it to the 2nd level receivers, let's send the receivers deep and then hit CJ on some crossing patterns. let's see if the LB's can cover him in the open field. that's an easy 10 yards min every time

[peterpan]

If some team wants him and they can offer an upgrade at G or TE I trade hime now. A starting G would be much more beneficial to this team than Spiller

[peanuts]

Hackett needs to put CJ IN space.

 

They need to use CJ motioned out of the back field into the slot while Fred is in the backfield. Use them both on the field at the same time. Use Bryce Brown to give them a rest. The best way to use CJ's speed is as a wide out & kick returns.

[BringBackFergy]

They need to use CJ motioned out of the back field into the slot while Fred is in the backfield. Use them both on the field at the same time. Use Bryce Brown to give them a rest. The best way to use CJ's speed is as a wide out & kick returns.

So you're saying he isn't a RB at all then? Will teams game plan as such?

[CodeMonkey]

now that we have a QB that extend the field and throw it to the 2nd level receivers, let's send the receivers deep and then hit CJ on some crossing patterns. let's see if the LB's can cover him in the open field. that's an easy 10 yards min every time

The Bills have sufficient speed and skill at WR now to get down field and get some separation, there is no way a LB is going to be able to consistently cover Spiller on the underneath patterns, and Spiller is far less than useless when he is kept in to block so what you say makes perfect sense. Manuel was not effective getting the ball down field so that wasn't much of an option before. Maybe we will start seeing that now with Orton.

[mrags]

 

Duh. Jackson is a different type of runner who also is probably 20 pounds bigger than Spiller, and built to run between the tackles. This is a case of a coach(es) trying to put a square peg into a round hole instead of taking advantage of player strengths.

 

BTW...If Spiller is such a bust, why did he have success under Gailey. My guess is that in 2012 when he was having a very good season under Gailey that you were probably drooling over him.

axtually, based in height and weight, Pound for pound, CJ is larger. He's only 16lbs lighter and 2 inches shorter. On average, 1" is equal to 10lbs.

 

http://www.nfl.com/player/fredjackson/2506871/profile

 

http://www.nfl.com/player/c.j.spiller/497204/profile

 

It's not a case of square peg into a round hole. CJ has all the ability that Fred has on paper. The only thing missing is his vision. It sucks. Do you really think Fred just runs Into the back of his linemen and miraculously falls forward for 4 yard gains? CJ continuously hits the wrong holes.

 

Keep making your excuses. He's getting outplayed by a 33 year old RB. He's constantly being pulled in serious situations because they can't count on CJ when the game is on the line.

 

I don't know what your talking about with 2012. First of all, it wasn't a very good season. It was good. That's it. Good. Nothing more. If he had reached the end zone more than 8 times then maybe I would concede that it was a very good season. But it wasn't.

 

And no, I wasn't drooling over him. I was pleased he was doing something. Unfortunately he has dissapointed in ever single season with the exception of 1. I call that a fluke. Lucky. But I sore don't call him good. He's now on oace to have 1 good season out of 5. Numbers don't lie.

[Storm Front]

I don't understand the complaints about CJ's football skills. It's not his fault that he is being told to run up the gut on many downs. Just wait till he makes a few big plays in the coming weeks. We are only a quarter of the way through the season. Mr. Rags' comments will cease and he may even change his tune.

[mrags]

I don't understand the complaints about CJ's football skills. It's not his fault that he is being told to run up the gut on many downs. Just wait till he makes a few big plays in the coming weeks. We are only a quarter of the way through the season. Mr. Rags' comments will cease and he may even change his tune.

it's Mrags. Not Mr. Rags. You don't see me calling some name you are not. Do you?

 

I've been waiting for years to be proved wrong about CJ. In fact I was a fan of his at one time. He continued to prove me wrong an I got sick of making excises for him. Just like everyone else still does. It's not my fault I'm ahead of the curve and don't fall for that crap anymore.

 

The complaints are 100% earned. He runs behind the same line as Freddy and Freddy has no issues making something out of nothing. He has no problem finding the small holes created by our terrible Guards. CJ continues to show he has horrible vision. He cannot figure out where to go. When he chooses to break it to the outside, he should have kept it up the middle and when he runs it up the middle he should be breaking it to the outside. It's as simple as shuffling 3 feet in either direction. The problem is, he doesn't make the right decision. Id say ever, but we all know that he has 1 run for 15-30 yards every 45 times he touches the ball.

Edited October 6, 2014 by mrags

[LabattBlue]

I don't know what your talking about with 2012. First of all, it wasn't a very good season. It was good. That's it. Good. Nothing more. If he had reached the end zone more than 8 times then maybe I would concede that it was a very good season. But it wasn't.

 

1700 yards from scrimmage and 8 rushing/receiving TD's is just a "good" season? :blink: I'm not saying he is the be all, end all, just that I think that the coaches could play to his strengths more than they are.

 

I'll move on.

Edited October 6, 2014 by LabattBlue

[mrags]

 

1700 yards from scrimmage and 8 rushing/receiving TD's is just a "good" season? :blink: I'm not saying he is the be all, end all, just that I think that the coaches could play to his strengths more than they are.

 

I'll move on.

if he would have had double digit TDs, then maybe.

 

Every year some RB gets 1,700 yards from scrimmage. Multiple. MJD used to do it all the time. There's RBs in this legie that do that on the ground alone.

 

1,200 rushing yards is nothing special in this league. It's barely considered good.

 

If your argument is going to be that last year, or some other year only X amount of okayers got that. Then my reply will be only X amount of players were good that particular year.

 

Call it what you want man. I'm on record for thinking he sicks and costs is first downs and games. I haven't been proven wrong yet. Everyone that's in love with him keeps making excises for him. He had 1 good year. That's it. The other 4 so far have been anywhere from bad to barely average. Especially for a 1st round pick. Especially for a guy that everyone here seems to Gawk over. I don't see this much love for good RBs in the league. I don't see this many excuses for them either. Every time he dissapoints (which has been a lot) someone comes up with a new excuse. When will it end?

 

Fwiw, I'd love to see him on some other team too. To prove that he's just not that good.

[DanInUticaTampa]

I say keep him if the price is right. He has had his good games this year, and he came up huge with that kickoff return in the bears game. I say keep him on as long as the price is right. Dont overpay for him.

[dave mcbride]

if he would have had double digit TDs, then maybe.

 

Every year some RB gets 1,700 yards from scrimmage. Multiple. MJD used to do it all the time. There's RBs in this legie that do that on the ground alone.

 

1,200 rushing yards is nothing special in this league. It's barely considered good.

 

If your argument is going to be that last year, or some other year only X amount of okayers got that. Then my reply will be only X amount of players were good that particular year.

 

Call it what you want man. I'm on record for thinking he sicks and costs is first downs and games. I haven't been proven wrong yet. Everyone that's in love with him keeps making excises for him. He had 1 good year. That's it. The other 4 so far have been anywhere from bad to barely average. Especially for a 1st round pick. Especially for a guy that everyone here seems to Gawk over. I don't see this much love for good RBs in the league. I don't see this many excuses for them either. Every time he dissapoints (which has been a lot) someone comes up with a new excuse. When will it end?

 

Fwiw, I'd love to see him on some other team too. To prove that he's just not that good.

TDs are a very overrated metric for assessing a RB's skill. So much of it depends on the play calling at the goal line and an offense's ability to get within the 10 yard line. Edgerrin James - a probable HOF player - had only 9 TDs in 2004 despite having a phenomenal season (2031 yards from scrimmage) because Indy threw it into the end zone (Manning had 49 TD passes that year). In 1994, the Cowboys were second in points and 8th in yards, but Aikman (a great QB) only threw 13 TDs and Emmitt Smith had 22 TDs. Does that mean that Aikman wasn't good that year? Of course not. Despite the lack of TD passes, he was great at getting the team into the red zone. Plus the o-line was phenomenal - far better than the 2012 Bills o-line.

 

Speaking of which, in 2012 the offense-challenged Bills were 28th in plays per drive, 21st in yards per drive, and 20th in points per drive. They weren't getting into the red zone nearly enough that season.

Edited October 6, 2014 by dave mcbride

[BillsFan-4-Ever]

let me type it slowly

 

Y E S, w e k e e p C J

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

I predict he'll end up in NE ...The Hoodie will make a 3rd Down Slot Smurf out of him. Thats how he should be used.

Interesting idea. Not sure he runs routes well either. Hoodie needs slots that run perfect routes and option on the fly.

[Kirby Jackson]

I've felt (and still do) that he will end up in New Orleans if he isn't signed here. He is going to be looking for $5M a year (ish). He is an explosive weapon but a part time player.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

Here is my guess. It depends on how honest CJ is with himself on what he is and isn't as a player.

 

If he gets delusions of grandeur and tells his agent to find him top rb money... For what's likely his last shot at big coin, he'll probably find and go with a higher bidder elsewhere.

 

What he is- a ridiculously fast and super shifty change of pace speed back with marginal hands and route running, poor field vision in tight space, and no pass protection ability whatsoever.

 

Not to say he might develop this other stuff with more in game touches but his age will match his number next season, just a few years from where the very best have dropped off of a cliff... Hey maybe low touches and drinking from Freddie's well water will help.

 

If he's willing to forego the extra cash to stick in buffalo and see this thing through then I'm sure they can reach a deal. If he wants to hit the last big payday, which is certainly understandable, he's gone.

[Bangarang]

I hope we don't keep CJ. He's likely going to get paid far too much for his production. He's had 1 really good season in 5 years and for being a top 10 pick that's not very impressive. RBs are a dime a dozen these days and teams have shown that they can get production from guys plucked off the streets.

 

You look at the most recent contracts given to RBs and you'll see Johnathan Stewart just got $36.5 million and Jamaal Charles got nearly $28 million. I would have to imagine CJ is going to want something close to either one and that's just an insane amount of money to pay for him when it's obvious our coaching staffs have shown that they don't know to use him.

[Kirby Jackson]

I hope we don't keep CJ. He's likely going to get paid far too much for his production. He's had 1 really good season in 5 years and for being a top 10 pick that's not very impressive. RBs are a dime a dozen these days and teams have shown that they can get production from guys plucked off the streets.

 

You look at the most recent contracts given to RBs and you'll see Johnathan Stewart just got $36.5 million and Jamaal Charles got nearly $28 million. I would have to imagine CJ is going to want something close to either one and that's just an insane amount of money to pay for him when it's obvious our coaching staffs have shown that they don't know to use him.

Reggie Bush got 4 years and $16M and he is the best comp for CJ. There are rumors that he is looking for $5M a year (4 years $20M is in my head). Would you make that deal?