Wayne Cubed Posted September 24, 2014 Share Posted September 24, 2014 Probably. They were on the field I think the most in the NFL last year and they were top 5 in the league at plays and yards/drive. That is a telling stat. This is why the casual observers hate Pettine. They just see the bulk stats. See this is where I disagree with you. Schwartz, by all accounts and metrics so far, is getting just as much production from the defense for the Bills through 3 games as Pettine did through 3 games with the Bills. No one hate's Pettine, but if Schwartz is able to get the same production or better, and the question is asked if you miss Pettine, then the answer should be no. Why would you miss Pettine if Schwartz is getting it done? And btw I brought up a lot of the stats that you've already posted (they were #2 in avg yards per drive behind Seattle last year, not 1) as to why the defense wasn't that bad last year. But thats not the premise of this thread. Also it looks like Mike Pettine has taken a good Cleveland defense and completely flushed it down the toilet. So we have no way of knowing if his defense here was a 1 hit wonder or not. Rex Ryan had to take back over the Jest defense in NY after a slow decline when Mike took over defensive duties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted September 24, 2014 Share Posted September 24, 2014 (edited) The offense isn't built for small ball, and I don't believe that it's the strategy the coaching staff would ideally employ. until we start hitting the big plays, its small ball. we arent high powered, high scoring currently. i agree that its not what they would have as an ideal, or are trying to build - but its where we are until we prove otherwise. Run heavy, playmakers that can turn a short gain into a long one. and a defense that will be relatively safe keeping it close. Edited September 24, 2014 by NoSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted September 24, 2014 Share Posted September 24, 2014 until we start hitting the big plays, its small ball. we arent high powered, high scoring currently. i agree that its not what they would have as an ideal, or are trying to build - but its where we are until we prove otherwise. Run heavy, playmakers that can turn a short gain into a long one. and a defense that will be relatively safe keeping it close. I agree. Manuel's play has been small-ball. But I don't believe for a second that's the game plan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted September 24, 2014 Share Posted September 24, 2014 Probably. They were on the field I think the most in the NFL last year and they were top 5 in the league at plays and yards/drive. That is a telling stat. This is why the casual observers hate Pettine. They just see the bulk stats. Dude. They were on the field most in the NFL last year, BOTTOM 5 in the league for TOP (it's golf, low score wins), 26th in the league for #plays (not top, BOTTOM), because they couldn't stop the run and get the f*@# off the field on 3rd down. That is a telling stat all right - telling of a porous D that isn't getting it done, and entirely consistent with being 29th in the league in run D. Nothing casual in that observation, it's key Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsburgh Posted September 24, 2014 Share Posted September 24, 2014 one thing that has been failed to be mentioned is that Pettine had Kiko on the field last year, and Schwartz does not have Kiko this season. That has to count for something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maddog69 Posted September 24, 2014 Share Posted September 24, 2014 I personally prefer Pettine's more aggressive style of Defense. I would've liked for Pettine to stay and build on the success from last year. Adding a run thumper like Spikes would have been fun to see under Pettine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Hindsight Posted September 24, 2014 Share Posted September 24, 2014 one thing that has been failed to be mentioned is that Pettine had Kiko on the field last year, and Schwartz does not have Kiko this season. That has to count for something. Neither does JS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cage Posted September 24, 2014 Share Posted September 24, 2014 I wish we would rush five guys to nail QBs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rfk Posted September 24, 2014 Author Share Posted September 24, 2014 With a small sample it's impossible to prove anything but I just liked the aggressive Petinne style more than Detroit Weinstadt and the 4 man rush ad nauseum... a few blitzes may have helped last week ...What do I know ? just intuition Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BUFFALOTONE Posted September 24, 2014 Share Posted September 24, 2014 And Weinstadt's Mini Me from Detroit wasn't..In fact I'd take Petinne as head coach and let Cleveland have Marrone... Wow...just wow. This is the stuff the MODS need to shut down. Its not even a healthy conversation. One loss man.....one loss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted September 24, 2014 Share Posted September 24, 2014 And Weinstadt's Mini Me from Detroit wasn't..In fact I'd take Petinne as head coach and let Cleveland have Marrone... I believe based on reputation and origin, Pettine is going to do a better job v pass and Schwarz v run up front. If the corners play better than last week Schwarz could be the better bet. If they continue to struggle we are going to miss the creative means of pressure generation more than we love the run d. I'd say Gilmore Graham and Leodis are going to make our mind up for us on this topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincec Posted September 24, 2014 Share Posted September 24, 2014 Absolutely. Pettine was the best DC that the Bills have had since Wade Phillips. After only one season there was a marked improvement in the play of virtually all the players on the defense and the defense as a whole. That's good coaching 101- get the most out of your players. Given another year in his complex system I would've expected another sizable jump in team performance, including vs the run (which so many of the sour grapes crowd harp on). Schwartz has exceeded my expectations so far by having the defense play at a similar level to last season but they need to start improving if I'm going to put him up there with Pettine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TPS Posted September 24, 2014 Share Posted September 24, 2014 Actually the Bills defense was 4th best in the league at only allowing 5.34 plays/drive. They were getting the ball back to the offense at an incredible rate. The whole no huddle thing last year really skews what you see on television. The Bills defense was also #1 last year in only allowing 25.78 yards/drive. That is incredible! Must have been the offense that gave up so many points then... I personally prefer Pettine's more aggressive style of Defense. I would've liked for Pettine to stay and build on the success from last year. Adding a run thumper like Spikes would have been fun to see under Pettine. The bottom line is points. Pettine's D gave up 24.3 ppg. ranking 21st. Right now, Schwartz's D is giving up 17.3 ppg and ranked 8th. there's a long way to go, but I'll take fewer points over sacks any day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CardinalScotts Posted September 24, 2014 Share Posted September 24, 2014 do you like watching Jim Leonard play ?....umm nope Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBillsForever Posted September 24, 2014 Share Posted September 24, 2014 I'd say Gilmore Graham and Leodis are going to make our mind up for us on this topic. I agree with this in its entirety. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted September 24, 2014 Share Posted September 24, 2014 one thing that has been failed to be mentioned is that Pettine had Kiko on the field last year, and Schwartz does not have Kiko this season. That has to count for something. Good point here. Schwartz's plan of having two 3-down LBs that could play every snap got blown up. Instead of Kiko matching up in the passing game, we get Preston Brown "welcome to the NFL" moments. Damn shame, too, because I think Kiko would do very well in Schwartz's scheme. GO BILLS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KollegeStudnet Posted September 24, 2014 Share Posted September 24, 2014 I'm going to start a thing called TT TT = Troll Topic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PolishDave Posted September 24, 2014 Share Posted September 24, 2014 Can I wait to answer this question until after we play New England and Detroit. Because if he doesn't find a way to get a pass rush against either of those teams then I will want to scream. Defense played decent in the first two games without needing many adjustments that I am aware of. However, in the last game it seemed like there were no real adjustments at half time even though they weren't getting the job done. That makes me question Schwartz's ability. I admit that during the game this passed sunday I was wondering how much more of a pass rush a Pettine defense would have generated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah John Posted September 24, 2014 Share Posted September 24, 2014 No, I think Schwartz's schemes are much better balanced to defend both the run and the pass. The pass defense is worse partly because of the absences of Byrd and Kiko. I think it's a good enough defense to win games just with competent offensive play. Last year, it wasn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted September 24, 2014 Share Posted September 24, 2014 I was reading through this today and reached some conclusions. And they should not be unexpected. Pettine disguised of looked to create mismatches from that method. He did . Jim is a more in your face type of D. at least up front . I wished for the best of both worlds. Jim S has only had 3 games with these Bills players. Pettine got better as the seosn went on. Neither of these guys are fools. And to compare to Pettine in Cleveland as a HC situation in any way is just reaching . Jim will come along and the team will improve. even though they are pretty good already under him. Preston Brown was thrown into the fire. And the kid has worked his tail off but he also has been targeted and abused. last week was justa rough day for the team. So to answer the question. I thought Pettine was much much more fun to watch but i think Jim has the experience and knowledge to come out the better coach (DC) by seasons end. edge .. Jim Schwartz No, I think Schwartz's schemes are much better balanced to defend both the run and the pass. The pass defense is worse partly because of the absences of Byrd and Kiko. I think it's a good enough defense to win games just with competent offensive play. Last year, it wasn't. Can we get over Byrd please John woulda could shoulda. He kinda sucked last year. A Wiliams was the playmaker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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