What is better, no guns, or more guns?

[jrober38]

1 minute ago, njbuff said:

 

To say it only happens in America is pretty disingenuous.

 

Mass shootings happen other places from time to time. Often years apart in many developed countries.

 

It happens in the US on almost a weekly basis. 

[row_33]

1 minute ago, jrober38 said:

 

Mass shootings happen other places from time to time. Often years apart in many developed countries.

 

It happens in the US on almost a weekly basis. 

 

Thanks for that valuable insight, nobody else could possibly have come up with this genius.

 

 

[Boatdrinks]

Just now, jrober38 said:

 

Mass shootings happen other places from time to time. Often years apart in many developed countries.

 

It happens in the US on almost a weekly basis. 

The answer probably lies largely in cultural issues. Not guns themselves. They are just a means to an end. The motive is not “ I can get a high powered weapon, so I will now decide to kill large amounts of people “. There is usually a deeper motive that the perp is acting out on. 

[row_33]

The Norway matter was the most chilling, right through the trial and sentencing.

 

 

[Boatdrinks]

15 minutes ago, B-Man said:

 

 

 

 

This as far from the truth as humanly possible.

 

 

You are aware where ChristChurch is ?

 

There is no time to list the hundreds of other examples.

 

 

 

 

 

Yeah, doesn’t fit their narrative. The perp was a lefty, didn’t legally purchase his weapon, and was shot down before he could take even more lives ( which he would have). “ Nothing to see here “ 

Edited August 5, 2019 by Boatdrinks

[jrober38]

Just now, Boatdrinks said:

The answer probably lies largely in cultural issues. Not guns themselves. They are just a means to an end. The motive is not “ I can get a high powered weapon, so I will now decide to kill large amounts of people “. There is usually a deeper motive that the perp is acting out on. 

 

I think this is a cop out. There are cultural issues all over the world. In the globalized world, everyone has extreme politics, everyone has immigrants, and everyone has a portion of the population who wants to hold onto the way things were. 

 

The main problem is that deranged individuals can walk into a store and legally buy semi automatic weapons and stockpiles of ammo without any deterrents. 

 

The Dayton shooter killed 9 and wounded 16 more in 30 seconds before he was killed. Even when there's a good guy with a gun, that's the type of carnage these weapons can inflict in a short time period.

[Boatdrinks]

9 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

Mass shootings happen other places from time to time. Often years apart in many developed countries.

 

It happens in the US on almost a weekly basis. 

And what of the “ mass shootings “ that take place over a summer in say , Chicago ? Crickets on CNN et al....

1 minute ago, jrober38 said:

 

I think this is a cop out. There are cultural issues all over the world. In the globalized world, everyone has extreme politics, everyone has immigrants, and everyone has a portion of the population who wants to hold onto the way things were. 

 

The main problem is that deranged individuals can walk into a store and legally buy semi automatic weapons and stockpiles of ammo without any deterrents. 

 

The Dayton shooter killed 9 and wounded 16 more in 30 seconds before he was killed. Even when there's a good guy with a gun, that's the type of carnage these weapons can inflict in a short time period.

I believe the Dayton shooter’s weapon was obtained illegally. Again, criminals will find a way to obtain these weapons. How does one rid the black market of the flood of weapons currently available ? That’s a much tougher problem to solve. 

[jrober38]

3 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said:

And what of the “ mass shootings “ that take place over a summer in say , Chicago ? Crickets on CNN et al....

Good point.

 

Pretty sure in one of my earlier posts I said I'd implement a program encouraging the public to turn in illegal weapons or give info on who has them. Something like $500 per handgun and $1000 per assault rifle.

 

I'm not trying to cherry pick anything. My position is very consistent in that guns need to be harder to access. 

 

If you have to get a license to drive a car, you should get a license to buy a gun showing you understand the laws around ownership and have demonstrated proper gun safety techniques to experienced gun operators. 

Edited August 5, 2019 by jrober38

[row_33]

2 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

I think this is a cop out. There are cultural issues all over the world. In the globalized world, everyone has extreme politics, everyone has immigrants, and everyone has a portion of the population who wants to hold onto the way things were. 

 

The main problem is that deranged individuals can walk into a store and legally buy semi automatic weapons and stockpiles of ammo without any deterrents. 

 

The Dayton shooter killed 9 and wounded 16 more in 30 seconds before he was killed. Even when there's a good guy with a gun, that's the type of carnage these weapons can inflict in a short time period.

 

Your country is obsessed with guns, it was founded on a War, the high priority of the 2nd amendment went to gun rights. Farming and hunting and the military are engrained for generations.

 

this Canadian doesn’t even remotely agree, but fully understands.

 

 

 

 

 

[jrober38]

1 minute ago, row_33 said:

 

Your country is obsessed with guns, it was founded on a War, the high priority of the 2nd amendment went to gun rights. Farming and hunting and the military are engrained for generations.

 

this Canadian doesn’t even remotely agree, but fully understands.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Never once have I said guns should be banned.

 

Own all the guns you want after you pass a proper test and extensive background check proving your capable of handling a weapon responsibly and are fit to own a gun without being a danger to anyone or yourself. 

[Boatdrinks]

2 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

Good point.

 

Pretty sure in one of my earlier posts I said I'd implement a program encouraging the public to turn in illegal weapons or give info on who has them. Something like $500 per handgun and $1000 per assault rifle.

 

I'm not cherry picking anything. My position is very consistent in that guns need to be harder to access. 

Maybe they do, but I don’t think the impact would be very big. The black market is too big. How did outlawing marijuana turn out, for example. Your suggestions on buybacks sound good, but there is a lack of respect for law enforcement in America that is deep rooted in some cultures. There are political and cultural obstacles to these things. I just don’t see an easy fix. 

[row_33]

2 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

Never once have I said guns should be banned.

 

Own all the guns you want after you pass a proper test and extensive background check proving your capable of handling a weapon responsibly and are fit to own a gun without being a danger to anyone or yourself. 

 

The whole conversation is bizarre to me.... one or two topics I have no attempt to influence with my American friends.

 

criminals don’t obey the law, they never will.

 

an AK47????  What on earth....

————-

 

Canadian media has no qualms about broadcasting the names of the shooters

[jrober38]

2 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said:

Maybe they do, but I don’t think the impact would be very big. The black market is too big. How did outlawing marijuana turn out, for example. Your suggestions on buybacks sound good, but there is a lack of respect for law enforcement in America that is deep rooted in some cultures. There are political and cultural obstacles to these things. I just don’t see an easy fix. 

 

I don't view the perpetrators of most of these shootings as criminals in the sense you're describing. 

 

I understand they're breaking a law, but this is purely a mental illness thing in my eyes. For the most part, these are deranged, socially awkward white men in their 20s with minimal social skills.

 

If you make something like this illegal, I think the odds of these guys navigating the black market to find a gun to kill a bunch of people with is slim to none. I think that's why you hardly see it in other countries. 

 

It's one thing to sell someone some weed because frankly who cares. I think it's another to sell some sketchy guy a gun illegally who fits the profile of a potential mass shooter. 

 

Just my opinion. 

 

Maybe he'll resort to another weapon, but whatever the alternate choice it'll be a hell of a lot less effective than an AR-15 or similar model. 

[row_33]

1 minute ago, jrober38 said:

 

If you make something like this illegal, I think the odds of these guys navigating the black market to find a gun to kill a bunch of people with is slim to none. I think that's why you hardly see it in other countries. 

 

 

 

 

 

90 percent of Canadians have no thoughts about guns their whole life.

 

[Boatdrinks]

4 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

I don't view the perpetrators of most of these shootings as criminals in the sense you're describing. 

 

I understand they're breaking a law, but this is purely a mental illness thing in my eyes. For the most part, these are deranged, socially awkward white men in their 20s with minimal social skills.

 

If you make something like this illegal, I think the odds of these guys navigating the black market to find a gun to kill a bunch of people with is slim to none. I think that's why you hardly see it in other countries. 

 

It's one thing to sell someone some weed because frankly who cares. I think it's another to sell some sketchy guy a gun illegally who fits the profile of a potential mass shooter. 

 

Just my opinion. 

 

Maybe he'll resort to another weapon, but whatever the alternate choice it'll be a hell of a lot less effective than an AR-15 or similar model. 

I think the young person you’re describing is becoming increasingly common, created by the internet obsessed society that we now are. I don’t know the percentage of these shootings that are carried out with illegal or legally obtained weapons. It’s just not any one thing , it’s a perfect storm of things from what they are taught at school to decreased social interaction due to internet and smartphone addiction along with other influences. I don’t think it’s pure madness in the way of say a Dahmer or some other serial killer. Just a violent lashing out due to other psychosis brought on by environmental factors. I still think that most anyone could get their hands on an illegal high powered weapon fairly easily.  That’s just my opinion though. While I am not a “ gun person “, there are substantial constitutional, cultural and political barriers to any sweeping changes via legislation. 

[B-Man]

 

OOPS

[Big Blitz]

A short thread.  Good takes, exactly what I was trying to say earlier:

 

 

[Hedge]

2 hours ago, jrober38 said:

 

Mass shootings happen other places from time to time. Often years apart in many developed countries.

 

It happens in the US on almost a weekly basis. 

 

I would assume that the systematic shuttering of mental institutions, along with the rise of those taking (or needing) behavior modification drugs plays a large part. I have no idea what is going in other countries in those regards.

[Bakin]

The culprit is SSRI drugs. 

Ban them. 

[Doc Brown]

6 hours ago, jrober38 said:

 

I don't view the perpetrators of most of these shootings as criminals in the sense you're describing. 

 

I understand they're breaking a law, but this is purely a mental illness thing in my eyes. For the most part, these are deranged, socially awkward white men in their 20s with minimal social skills.

 

If you make something like this illegal, I think the odds of these guys navigating the black market to find a gun to kill a bunch of people with is slim to none. I think that's why you hardly see it in other countries. 

 

It's one thing to sell someone some weed because frankly who cares. I think it's another to sell some sketchy guy a gun illegally who fits the profile of a potential mass shooter. 

 

Just my opinion. 

 

Maybe he'll resort to another weapon, but whatever the alternate choice it'll be a hell of a lot less effective than an AR-15 or similar model. 

It's a good question.  Do these extremely isolated people whose only real interaction is with like minded individuals in some radical online forum have the social skills required to acquire a weapon like the AR-15 off the black market? 

 

I'm not sure, but I've always been in favor of raising the gun buying age until 26 as your brain's cognitive processing isn't fully developed until that point.  If you want to be able to purchase a gun before that age you should have to pass a psychological background test, have a clean criminal record, and receive a gun training course.  It'll pry never happen though given the slippery slope argument that many 2nd amendment advocates make.

Edited August 5, 2019 by Doc Brown