Mark80 Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 (edited) That may be what they mean, but it's still incorrect. The team tried to hire Mike Shanahan; he passed. They tried to hire Bill Cowher; he passed. They tried to hire Chip Kelly; he passed. It's never been an issue of spending. And to clarify, I'm not one the people who believe that, that was just my impression of them. To play devil's advocate they would probably say that we didn't offer them enough to come here. I can't remember what we offered them (or if it was even made public), but that would be the logic of their argument. I too, think it's unfounded and untrue. Edited July 3, 2014 by Mark80 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 (edited) And to clarify, I'm not one the people who believe that, that was just my impression of them. To play devil's advocate they would probably say that we didn't offer them enough to come here. I can't remember what we offered them (or if it was even made public), but that would be the logic of their argument. I too, think it's unfounded and untrue. Sure, I gotcha...I don't know for sure, but I seem to remember it being reported that Shanahan was offered $7M/year, same as what he eventually signed for in Washington. Edit: Found this link from Carucci saying Wilson wanted to spend up to $10M/year on Shanahan... http://blogs.buffalobills.com/2009/11/25/nfl-com-wilson-ready-to-spend-big/ Edited July 3, 2014 by thebandit27 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOUSE Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 Look, if the team sucks then no tickets are sold No tickets, no team. Make up your mind....keep the team or Play horse shoes on the weekend Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 Look, if the team sucks then no tickets are sold No tickets, no team. Make up your mind....keep the team or Play horse shoes on the weekend Odd. The Bills have sucked for 12 years and how many blackouts have they had in that time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heitz Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 If we're hoping, wouldn't it just be easier to hope that a light goes off and Manuel looks like a future HoFer? Hoping for the worst season in franchise history in hope that some "fix" is on the way is beyond idiotic. For real - not sure why some have to hope for the worst vs hoping for the best. I get it, the OP doesn't think that the current situation will work out, ok, but is that really a reason to HOPE FOR THE WORST? Hope for the best, but know that whatever is going to happen is going to happen, and you'll stay much less stressed and be much happier. I mean, the season's coming you might as well get on board and at least try to enjoy it regardless of how it all plays out... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kemp Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 Rooting for 0-16 at any time is idiotic. Rooting for it when you don't have a first round pick is truly moronic. The explanation given for this opinion displays someone without a clue who has far too much time on his hands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 (edited) This organization is like the tree in your backyard that's dying. Oh sure, there are some branches with some green leaves on it, but by and large it's dead. You know it's dead, and the only thing to do is call a tree guy to come cut it down, chip it up, grind the stump, and give you the bill for it. That's the Bills for you right there--oh sure, Sammy Watkins may be great, Dareus is a pro bowler, Spiller has looked good in places... there's some healthy young, green leaf growth right there. But the trunk? Dead. And before you jump down my throat and say "Is this another Kiko post? lol" consider the following--there was a point during the offseason (before the Byrd negotiations) where Marrone let it leak that there is a rift between the bean counters and the football guys. Well, I'll lump them all together: everyone must go. See, here's the thing: I may be the biggest optimist on here. When the Bills are there usual 4-8, I'm the one on ESPN.com's playoff calculator figuring out just how easy it will be for the Bills to steal the 6 seed. I'm the one staying up to watch the Chargers/Bengals games in week 15, because it impacts the chances of the Bills getting a wild-card at 7-9. But not this year. On offense: we lost our best receiver. Yes, our best receiver. I dont care about his antics, or what you think a true number 1 receiver should look like. It doesn't matter--Stevie Johnson was our biggest producer on offense over the last 3 years, and he's gone. Who will replace him? It's a gamble, but for whatever reason, Whaley saw fit to ship out our most productive offensive weapon. Our best running back is now a year older and 30 is long-since faded out of his rear-view mirror. We are, at this point in time, worse on offense. Oh sure, there's potential to be better, but for now, we are worse. On defense: our coordinator, gone. our best safety, gone. our best linebacker, done for the season. our best d-lineman, in trouble with the law. this is a problem. The strength of our 5-11 unit is now weaker. this is undeniable. do not try to tell me that i am a glass half empty person, this point is irrefutable: our defense is weaker. special teams: an absolute disaster last season, remains largely intact. Same coaching. this is also a problem. And most importantly (as everyone will note) our quarterback, because this is what our season hinges on, right?: missed too many games to injury last season, a major major problem that Bills fans seem to be in denial about. 3 knee injuries in one season? THREE KNEE INJURIES IN ONE SEASON? If that happened to Brady, we would be dancing in the street. But in Buffalo? That's cause for optimism because he "hasn't had a full season to show us what he can do yet!" Well, in the limited time he did have to show us what he could do, he was middling. a .500 qb at best, who looks like he needs to be surrounded by an extremely talented cast to succeed. He is not a game changer, he is not elite, he can not put this team on his back and take us to the Super Bowl. It's not happening, and in your heart, you know that's true. So a 5-11 team (please note the 1 game regression from Gailey's teams--we got worse, not better) who is weaker across the board, is going to turn it around this year? What, may I ask, in the last 15 years, has given you ANY indication whatsoever, that that is going to happen? It isnt. But for the first time ever, this is now a good thing. A new owner will inherit this train wreck. And after another typical, awful 4-12 Bills train wreck, there will finally be some accountability. And it starts right with the golden boy GM, because our rebuild will have to be put off ANOTHER year--with no first round draft pick in next years selection meeting, we suddenly will be the most pathetic franchise in the NFL. If we truly, truly bottom out, (and im talking 0-16 here folks) that should be all the impetus that is needed to drop an a-bomb at one bills drive and clean house. everyone: from russ to the ball boys. Sorry to piss in your coffee this morning, but I've been thinking about this a lot since OTA's. But ask yourself this: are the pieces in place for this team to win a super bowl? Do you think EJ Manuel can be a Super Bowl winning quarterback? Ask yourself that. Don't just hit reply and tell me the sky isn't falling: ask yourself if you can picture EJ Manuel hoisting the lombardi trophy. If you're older than a 4th grader, the answer is likely "no." So open your mind. Let's be happy when Pegula takes over ownership, and then let's just enjoy this season for what it is: the curtain call for Bills football as we've known it for 2 decades. Yes, it's going to be painful to watch us struggle this year, and yes it's going to be even worse next offseason knowing we don't have a first round pick, but good times are on the horizon. You Mad Bro ?Thats a lot of pent up hostilty there mister : ) I am glad the board allows such a broad perspective of opinions. I truly do enjoy that leniency. This is hanging it out there Johnny . For anyone who bitched about the OP , just notice how many responded . I dont need to crituque this line of thought " 0-16 ' because it has been covered here ad nauseum hasnt it J G. ? You dont come off as much of a fan. Maybe you had not noticed , so i wanted to mention that here. GO BILLS Edited July 3, 2014 by 3rdand12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CountryCletus Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 Firstly, it sounds like someone started hitting the sauce early this holiday weekend!!! You don't quite sound like the optimist that you claim to be... Not even barely a realist... As to your claims of the sky falling... (Please keep in mind that I am not trying to say that things are great and and we have everyone we need too to bottom...) - my dying tree is in my front yard, the guy is actually coming this month to take it down... - best DL is Dareus?? Really??? We can argue to Kyle's merit -> (Mrags) but I think that Mario is far and away our best DL... - key additions to combat your talk of key losses Spikes- he single handedly bolsters our run d. Far and wide one of the top LB's against the run, which, as you've seen and know, is why our D struggles last year... Watkins is slightly more than a green leaf on my dying tree... You claim that we lost our biggest offensive weapon in Stevie... Watkins projects (yes projects, as he has yet to play a game) as a much better WR than Stevie... So I consider that a gain, not a loss. OL is deeper and has more quality than it has had across the board in YEARS! DC is a much more proven DC than Pettine was. Pettine had one year out of the shadow from Rex and cashed it in for a head coaching job... If he was that stud DC that you think he was, don't you think he would have had a scheme to keep us from being 30th in the league against the run? Oh, run D... That's Schwartz forte.... Yup, we lost Byrd... "Is that a Byrd, a plane?? NO! It's Aaron Williams!!" He resurrected his career sliding to S, and while he was forced into CB role a few times due to injury, he has quickly become a damn fine S in this NFL, top 15 Not going to touch the knee injury issue as it could be a fluke... You never know- and the only games he truly played healthy were in the PS... You mention this team not being a legit Super Bowl candidate... Maybe... Maybe not- any given Sunday, but YES, I can see EJ hoisting the Lombardi trophy... I can also see 6-8 players that would probably be more likely to win the MVP if that were to ever happen... If Trent Dilfer can win a Super Bowl, virtually anyone can. I don't think that it's fair to insinuate that anything other than a Super Bowl victory (or appearance) is a wasted season... A franchise that hasn't seen playoff football in 14 years should be extremely happy to make it to a wild card game- and that, I would consider a successful season!! A successful season that actually shows hope for the following year, given a healthy, wait for it.... Wait for it... KIKO!!!! I'm anxious to see your reply... If you indeed were drinking, I won't judge... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 Nice post Country ^ You seem to have a decent take on the situation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CountryCletus Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 So the entire post is "I'm an optimist, and I think we suck, so you should all agree with my opinions or you're 4th graders"? No, the offense isn't worse. Stevie Johnson wasn't the most productive passing target on the team last year; that was Chandler. It's also short-sighted to say we're worse on offense when we've added Watkins, Bryce Brown, and Anthony Dixon and lost only Johnson (who pretty much any Bills' fan could tell didn't have very good chemistry with Manuel). I also noticed that you conveniently ignored the 4 offensive linemen the team added this off-season. No, the defense isn't worse. The run D was historically bad, and the team added one of (if not the) best run-stopping LBs in football. Also, Mario Williams is the team's best DLmen, not Dareus. They drafted Preston Brown, Ross Cockrell, and Randell Johnson. They also added Corey Graham and are likely to have Gilmore back at full speed. To say the defense is worse is an assumption, not an undeniable truth as you claim. Jim Schwartz is a very sharp football mind, and had strong defensive success at times in Tennessee. No, the ST unit isn't the same. The team added specific ST pieces in Dixon and Graham, and should get a boost from the increase in overall team depth. As to EJ, nobody knows whether or not he's a franchise guy...all I can tell you is that it would be irrefutably ignorant for someone to gauge their opinion based on whether or not they can picture a guy lifting a piece of metal; it would be even greater folly to suggest anyone that can do so is juvenile or unintelligent. So open your mind. Let's be happy IF Pegula takes ownership (it's not a given), and then let's just enjoy this season for what it is: Buffalo Bills football. No, you have no idea if it'll be painful or fun, a struggle or a success, or whether things will get significantly better this season or next, but I agree that good times are on the horizon. Pretty sure I just said everything you already had- sorry, read the first thing and got livid... Nice post Country ^ You seem to have a decent take on the situation Thank you, sir... My longest winded post to date, lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky Landing Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 To the OP: I tried to make it through your entire post, I really did. And, my hat's off to all the forum members who took the time to read this twaddle, and thoughtfully reply. But, for me, the stench of smug self-indulgence was too much to take. I was really only able to more, or less skim the wretched thing. You honestly want to sell the notion that the most enjoyable part of next season should be the bye week? You honestly believe that the best outcome for an organization that is quite possibly on the precipice of being relocated-- possibly several time-zones away-- and is clinging to the depressed economy of Western New York, with wolves at the door, is abject failure? And let's forget, for the moment, that this is a fan site, and consider the players, themselves. Do you have so little regard for the lives, and careers of the 53 dedicated professionals on our team, that you would wish upon them the ignoble distinction that would come with such an accomplishment? You want them, our team, to be a laughingstock? And then, at the end of your long, tiresome post, you have the audacity to beseech the fan base of the Buffalo Bills to "open their minds." Wow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CountryCletus Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 No fan wants their team to truly go 0-16. Maybe the first thing we have agreed on!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
machine gun kelly Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 You want us to go 0-16 when we have no 1st round pick? CBF Thanks CBF. Working so didn't see this until now. Enough said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 But can Pegula own the worst NFL team, AND the worst NHL team? As far as I know the Jags aren't for sale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CountryCletus Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 > If you'd like to re-read it and offer your own summary feel free. Okay. The OP does not believe the Bills' front office and coaching staff can build a Super Bowl winner. The sooner they get replaced, the sooner the new owner will have the opportunity to put the team on a Super Bowl winning path. If going 0-16 is the price needed to get off the wrong path and onto the right one, the OP is prepared to pay that price with his eyes open. > I'm sorry, but 4-0 in Bowl games and a YPA and QB rating that was better than Peyton Manning coming out of Tennessee disagrees with that assessment. In college, Peyton Manning averaged a YPA of 8.1. Tim Tebow's college YPA was 9.4. While I'm not a fan of the QB rating stat, Tebow's college QB rating was 170.8; compared to Peyton Manning's 147.1. YPA, QB rating, and bowl games are not necessarily good tools with which to evaluate college QBs. The correct way to evaluate college QBs is to watch tape, not crunch statistics. When watching tape, you should look for accuracy, the ability to fit the ball into tight places, the ability to quickly read the field and see multiple targets; and the ability to hit the receiver in stride. Peyton Manning did a very good job with these things in college. Neither Tebow nor Manuel were strong in most of these areas; which is why--despite their gaudy college statistics--neither of them were remotely comparable to Manning as QB prospects. > while I appreciate your desire to draw conclusions about my thought process without ever asking any questions . . . How is that any different than the way you treated the OP? But to return to the subject of my comment: the theme of Gladwell's book is that sometimes a quick glance can tell you a great deal. (At least when your instincts have been augmented by training and life experience.) To give an example, people have a strong financial incentive to create fake antique statuary. In one case, a man began selling statues which he claimed were antiques. They passed every chemical test to which they were subjected. But when they were seen by experts in the area, their first, gut level reaction was that the statues seemed "fresh." It later turned out that the statues were fake. The OP is asking us to take the "blink" concept described in Gladwell's eponymous book, and apply it to E.J. Manuel. > is it your opinion that Whaley should've drafted another QB early, or are you more worried about the "what do we do next year if EJ fails" scenario? I personally would have drafted a QB early, if there was a QB prospect I liked. I understand this is not typical NFL GM thinking, and I'm not willing to write Whaley off due to his failure to address the QB position in this draft. But by trading away his first round pick, he closed the door on taking a QB early in the 2015 draft. That's an extremely bold move, and seems to demonstrate a high degree of confidence in Manuel. Confidence I believe is wholly unjustified. > why don't we wait and see what the offense looks like with the full playbook before drawing any conclusions? I have already concluded that Gailey was much better than Hackett at finding ways to use Spiller. It wouldn't surprise me at all if Spiller goes first-contract-and-out due to no longer having what (for him) would be a good coaching situation in Buffalo. Will there be additional costs to having Hackett, in addition to the probable loss of Spiller? I don't know. Losman was never able to run a complete NFL offense. During his one good year, the Bills' coaching staff had to greatly simplify their offense so that he could be effective. I've read that Manuel ran a simplified college offense, and I don't expect things to be any different in the NFL. Hackett may never get the chance to install a complete, complex NFL offense. Which is probably something he should have considered before becoming part of the "consensus" which led to the selection of Manuel. This is a sincere question... Do you always at devils advocate, or defend people that are getting the boots put to them? Maybe I misread a couple of your comments on here (I hope I did), but it seemed to me, that you are mostly defending the OP in what could be the worst thread in the last 5 years... Also seems that you are attempting to explain his views, and elaborate on his mess... This isn't a personal attack, I just want to understand what's going on here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 So open your mind. Let's be happy when Pegula takes over ownership, and then let's just enjoy this season for what it is: the curtain call for Bills football as we've known it for 2 decades. Yes, it's going to be painful to watch us struggle this year, and yes it's going to be even worse next offseason knowing we don't have a first round pick, but good times are on the horizon. SJ whatever, No I don't believe in EJ but we need to see how does this year, you are forgetting that most of holes have been filled this offseason. However if we do bomb I'm all for Pegula cleaning house. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 I see the OP's point and he's right in a macro sense. The whole front office needs to be shown the door, from Brandon on down to the coaches. We are never going to become winners with those jobbers running the show. Having said that, an 0-16 season is not a prerequisite for that to happen, and would be downright embarrassing (more so when the Browns are at the podium with the first pick next year). I think any new owner will consider making changes whether we finish 0-16 or 8-8. For the sake of Bills fans, I certainly hope he or she does. I didn't know Pegula was a female. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis in NC Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 I am surprised at how so many people can't appreciate the positive- -and overdue- -changes the organization has made in the last couple years. The way they have handled coaching searches, activity during the draft, and even the way they handled Byrd, are all things that the old Bills would have stumbled and bumbled over for sure. Can you imagine hanging out at a party with some of these people (that small handful of very negative TSW posters)? Are they taking downers with their Genny Cream Ale? Does life just completely suck for them? The good side of all this negativity is that I have re-discovered the IGNORE feature. It used to be a button on the post (I think), but now it is found in your settings. JohnnyPyrite - maybe just a troll that likes to rile folks. He/she makes it difficult not to start calling people bad names. But they do have a way of making reasonable people feel much better about themselves. Like "Hey, at least I'm not THAT guy..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mort Hendrickson Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 You are no longer allowed to be fan of this team. Your privileges are revoked. If YOU can no longer Billieve, then find a new team. If Trent Dilfer can hoist a Lombardi, then I have no reason not to Billlieve that EJ can as well. GO BILLS!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloFan68 Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 With Kiko is was predicting that we go 6 -0 in the division. Without Kiko I'll go with 4-2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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