Golisano to bid on Bills & propose new WS staduim

[Delete This Account]

The Buffalo News article said the West Seneca site is owned by S & R Group - - here's what an ownership search of Erie County property records shows for West Seneca:

 

http://www2.erie.gov...y-parcel-search

 

 

 

Haven't tried to figure out if S & R Company owns any land adjacent to the "Shops" site, or the total acreage it owns, or if all of the above parcels are contiguous.

 

The general area:

 

https://www.google.c...=!3m1!1e3?hl=en

 

what i've found is that S&R curiously has the same address as Pyramid in Syracuse. it's quite confusing, but it's evident that there is a connection there.

 

jw

[26CornerBlitz]

Congel is a deadbeat. He screwed Monroe County over huge tax breaks after he bought the Irondequoit mall and has let it sit there and rot for years.

 

Form the D and C:

 

"Congel, who promised hundreds of millions of dollars in redevelopment at the mall in exchange for the tax breaks, has so far failed to deliver. He's also failed to pay the town of Irondequoit $500,000 that was due in April 2009. And, on Monday he missed the deadline to remit $3.9 million he owes the town, school district and COMIDA for his regularly scheduled PILOT payment and a penalty he's facing for missing a construction deadline."

 

Then, comically, Congel claims that "Demands for payment are "crippling our efforts to proceed with construction by requiring that we spend significant monies now to pay disputed claims," according to the company's statement."

 

So, when he welshes on a deal he agreed to and the County tries to hold him to the deal, he claims the holding him to the deal part is preventing him from keeping his part of the deal.

 

It amazed me when I read that Golisano would seek to partner with this two bit player. It's a red flag that I think could hurt his bid with the other owners.

 

Yikes!!!

[nucci]

Yikes!!!

What you said!!

[MarkyMannn]

As a few people said previously, that old Seneca Mall site is REALLY small. Now if you took out the tracks and cleared the adjacent plaza, maybe you have enough room. You could probably negotiate with Wegmans to move also, it is an older store.

 

I doubt you see trains to the stadium. Amtrak would not dedicate the equipment for a once a week every other week trek off its planned routes. The same reasoning you don;t see trains to OP. The West Seneca tracks are severed also, but farther down the line in Blasdell. They are only used now for car storage

[Mr. WEO]

Even more disturbing to me is that Steve Pigeon has wormed his way into the discussion as a lobbyist. Pigeon's a turd who even makes Donald Trump look respectable.

 

http://www.buffalone...tadium-20140528

 

"Pigeon and longtime business associate Gary R. Parenti also have just formed a lobbying firm that, according to Albany records, has been paid $116,000 by Congel's company to represent it before the Town of West Seneca."

 

It reflects poorly on Golisano's judgement that he seems to repeatedly partner up with such snake oil salesmen as Pigeon and Congel (or even Larry Quinn, although I wouldn't put him in quite the same category as the other two).

 

Even the old man sounds like a dirty dealer--with a history rife with lawsuits brought by municipalities and former employees.

 

Golisano is dooming himself. He should get rid of this small time wannbe.

[zonabb]

what i've found is that S&R curiously has the same address as Pyramid in Syracuse. it's quite confusing, but it's evident that there is a connection there.

 

jw

 

Like any good multibillion dollar corporation, Pyramid starts new LLCs for every project.... limiting the risk from one LLC upon another under a single umbrella corporation, which is the intent of LLCs. So in 1999 S&R Company of West Seneca, L.L.C. was formed with Pyramid Management Group as listed as the applicant. Subsequently, S&R Company of West Seneca Newco LLC and S&R Company of West Seneca Newco II LLC were formed in August 2004 and then S&R Company of West Seneca II, LLC was formed in 2012. Pyramid and these subsidiary LLCs were share the same 4 Clinton Street, Syracuse address.

 

This is very common in development. For example, if you look at most development projects, they're separate LLCs from the companies identified in the paper.

[Just Jack]

This Golisano/Congel stuff is getting pretty interesting. Dont want to get my hopes up, but they would be an ownership that could completely fund the new stadium themselves. Been saying we need a Lucas Oil-type for the new stadium. Ideally it would be downtown/on the water, but I wouldnt hate this location. Thoughts?

 

http://www.buffalonews.com/city-region/developers-700-million-plan-for-west-seneca-plaza-could-include-new-stadium-20140528

 

Uhhh.. here's why everyone should be worried with this one statement from that article....

 

"But Congel said he is confident in the track record and expertise of his company to develop such a project,"

 

Ask people in Syracuse and Rochester how good the record on the Congels are.

[CodeMonkey]

Uhhh.. here's why everyone should be worried with this one statement from that article....

 

"But Congel said he is confident in the track record and expertise of his company to develop such a project,"

 

Ask people in Syracuse and Rochester how good the record on the Congels are.

His track record is lukewarm at best. And if Erie County asks Monroe County it's game over. Congel as far as I can tell has all his experience in shopping centers which have some of the same concerns as stadiums such as traffic flow, but they are obviously very different beasts.

 

But, Golisano is no dummy and I am sure he is well aware of the Medley Centre fiasco in Rochester. I have to believe he knows what he is doing.

Edited May 29, 2014 by CodeMonkey

[CodeMonkey]

Like any good multibillion dollar corporation, Pyramid starts new LLCs for every project.... limiting the risk from one LLC upon another under a single umbrella corporation, which is the intent of LLCs. So in 1999 S&R Company of West Seneca, L.L.C. was formed with Pyramid Management Group as listed as the applicant. Subsequently, S&R Company of West Seneca Newco LLC and S&R Company of West Seneca Newco II LLC were formed in August 2004 and then S&R Company of West Seneca II, LLC was formed in 2012. Pyramid and these subsidiary LLCs were share the same 4 Clinton Street, Syracuse address.

 

This is very common in development. For example, if you look at most development projects, they're separate LLCs from the companies identified in the paper.

Yup so that when he !@#$s up royally like he did (actually still in progress) in Rochester and that company get's it's ass sued off by Monroe County (also in progress) his other endeavors as well as his personal assets are sheltered.

[Delete This Account]

Like any good multibillion dollar corporation, Pyramid starts new LLCs for every project.... limiting the risk from one LLC upon another under a single umbrella corporation, which is the intent of LLCs. So in 1999 S&R Company of West Seneca, L.L.C. was formed with Pyramid Management Group as listed as the applicant. Subsequently, S&R Company of West Seneca Newco LLC and S&R Company of West Seneca Newco II LLC were formed in August 2004 and then S&R Company of West Seneca II, LLC was formed in 2012. Pyramid and these subsidiary LLCs were share the same 4 Clinton Street, Syracuse address.

 

This is very common in development. For example, if you look at most development projects, they're separate LLCs from the companies identified in the paper.

 

i figured as much. thanks.

 

jw

[ICanSleepWhenI'mDead]

 

 

what i've found is that S&R curiously has the same address as Pyramid in Syracuse. it's quite confusing, but it's evident that there is a connection there.

 

jw

Sometimes when people do business together they form a new business entity and name it with some sort of combination of their names. Just a guess, but the "S" could be Scott Congel, and the "R" could be his father Robert Congel. You can't always rely on that as to who currently owns the entity, though, because sometimes the business entity keeps its original name even if the people involved in the business change (for any number of reasons).

 

Edit: It also occurs to me that if Scott Congel branched off from his father's mall development company to start his own, maybe his first properties were in the Syracuse and Rochester areas.

Edited May 29, 2014 by ICanSleepWhenI'mDead

[26CornerBlitz]

5/29 Erie County Executive Mark Poloncarz on WGR: http://audio.wgr550.com/a/92562723/5-29-erie-county-executive-mark-poloncarz.htm

[26CornerBlitz]

Pyramid: We're not part of plan for new Buffalo Bills stadium: http://www.syracuse....ls_stadium.html

[ICanSleepWhenI'mDead]

5/29 Erie County Executive Mark Poloncarz on WGR: http://audio.wgr550.com/a/92562723/5-29-erie-county-executive-mark-poloncarz.htm

Poloncarz says during the interview that he's writing a book about the negotiations that led up to the most recent stadium lease extension.

[ICanSleepWhenI'mDead]

Pyramid: We're not part of plan for new Buffalo Bills stadium: http://www.syracuse....ls_stadium.html

Yesterday's USA Today article says Scott Congel is a "former principal" of the Pyramid Group, so the Pyramid Group's statement today leaves open the possibility that Scott Congel is working on a plan for a stadium in West Seneca that involves S & R Group but not the Pyramid Group (even though the WGR Poloncarz interview indicates that Scott Congel did not speak to Poloncarz about any such plan). Poloncarz did say that Scott Congel owns a different parcel in the same area - - but did not specify exactly where.

 

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/2014/05/28/ap-sources-golisano-expresses-plans-to-buy-bills/9678877/

 

. . . [scott] Congel was previously a principal at Pyramid. He has most recently run into difficulties attempting to redevelop the Medley Centre mall outside of Rochester. The mall is now vacant.

Edited June 1, 2014 by ICanSleepWhenI'mDead

[Mr. WEO]

Sources tell me Golisano is in Rochester today...

[SRQ_BillsFan]

Maybe Buffalo is different, but that certainly is not the case in Columbus. There are various ages of people who live downtown, just as many empty nesters as recent college grads, but the suburban sprawl is real. Everything is built around the city, not in the city. Our hockey arena and AAA ballpark are there, but the main draw, OSU, is not. I agree downtown is a great idea. But just not sure that a suburban location is not an option as well.

 

While true OSU is relatively close to downtown. When I lived out in the suburbs they were both in that general direction and considered close enough.

 

Not to mention that OSU is so big and has so many students that it could most likely be a city by itself. In the last 10-15 years they have expanded quite a bit. It used to be when you thought OSU you thought High Street. When I go back and visit now it's truly amazing how they have added so much to the north side.

 

Not sure if the distance from downtown to High street area of OSU but it can't be more that 5-6 miles from the Nationwide buildings?

 

.

[YoloinOhio]

While true OSU is relatively close to downtown. When I lived out in the suburbs they were both in that general direction and considered close enough.

 

Not to mention that OSU is so big and has so many students that it could most likely be a city by itself. In the last 10-15 years they have expanded quite a bit. It used to be when you thought OSU you thought High Street. When I go back and visit now it's truly amazing how they have added so much to the north side.

 

Not sure if the distance from downtown to High street area of OSU but it can't be more that 5-6 miles from the Nationwide buildings?

 

.

It is about that far from Nationwide. It is like a city in itself, but still feels like it is part of UA or Grandview, or Clintonville, vs. being downtown. There is never anyone in DT Cbus except M-F 8-5, when the Jackets or Clippers are playing, or weekend nights at the bars. Edited June 1, 2014 by YoloinOhio

[billsfanmiami(oh)]

 

 

I lived in German Village about ten years ago, and it was just like that then-- totally dead in downtown after 5 pm. I remember going to that downtown mall once after 5 pm (I think it no longer exists), and there were like 15 people in the entire mall--it was scary. Other than a few GV hot spots, we used to usually go to the suburbs for stuff to do (gym, movies, restaurants, etc.).

 

That's still how it is. All the activity and nightlife outside "work hours" is concentrated to the arena district / short north / campus. The brewery district is pretty much dead. The heart of downtown is a empty after everyone leaves work. You're correct too about city center mall it's been gone for a few years now. Easton & Polaris have pretty much taken over the shopping scene.

[Cleveland Rocks?]

That's still how it is. All the activity and nightlife outside "work hours" is concentrated to the arena district / short north / campus. The brewery district is pretty much dead. The heart of downtown is a empty after everyone leaves work. You're correct too about city center mall it's been gone for a few years now. Easton & Polaris have pretty much taken over the shopping scene.

Yep - Columbus is a large, thriving, young city but the downtown area is not where I would put an NFL stadium if there were to get a franchise. It is so suburb-oriented. BTW people choose spend their money on what matters to them. That is why affluent cities with deep pockets and corporations like SD, Miami and LA can barely support a NFL team, but cities like Cleveland, Pitt, GB can and pack the stadium every week and wear their gear year-round, win or lose. Those other cities have a lot of other things they care about and the NFL team doesn't rank highly whereas football cities with their heart and souls tied to their team will find a way.

 

Also, as a grad student at OSU I paid $90 for Buckeye season tix (student pricing) and sold for 5k. I sold my OSU-UM ticket one year for 7500. People like to spend money on football.

Edited June 2, 2014 by Cleveland Rocks?