Gray Beard Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 People have been asking why Lewis and Tuel seemed to get more chances to throw the ball around, but EJ seems to have the training wheels on. Maybe EJ is the one who is playing conservative and checking down. Maybe the play calls have been similar for all three QBs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanC883 Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 Conservative coaching or (and?) conservative QB play? Pass plays call for multiple routes, different depths. How is it Hackett's fault if Manuel always takes the short option? I would love to get a look at last weeks game showing more downfield. You don't know what else is going on during a game, you see what CBS shows you. Also consider that we played without one of our top wideouts and losing another during the game. I agree. Less likely Hackett's fault than EJ checking down, which Marrone stated EJ did. Look at how Lewis and Tuel threw the ball down the field. Looks like Captain Checkdown V 2.0 has come out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 People have been asking why Lewis and Tuel seemed to get more chances to throw the ball around, but EJ seems to have the training wheels on. Maybe EJ is the one who is playing conservative and checking down. Maybe the play calls have been similar for all three QBs. Why are we calling for anyones head this year so soon? Besides graham . he really blows. But all these rookies . players and staff both, then the injuries and some serious adversaries so far including the Steelers trap game bitches have been alot to overcome for any coaching staff. Its just not fair to start the bonfires and sharpen pitch forks just yet. Not yet.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mart Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 What are fingers for if not to point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 Hacketts job is NOT on the line. Like it or not, he is here as long as Marrone is here. Hackett is Marrones buddy just like Grossman, the awful ST Coach is here. They will go with Marrone because any new coach will not hire either one. Marrone does not strike me as a guy who hangs onto coaches that dont perform.......I think this statement is a bit early......first.....lets see if Hackett improves...second...lets see how Marrone handles it. Too early they havent even had a full year yet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjmac Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 More than coaching, the talent level on this team is a real problem. Once the young guys who can develop do so, we'll be OK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewildrabbit Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 I tend to agree with the OP, only from a different perspective. Previous to this season starting, Nathaniel Hackett stated he would run Spiller until he threw up, and that clearly hasn't been even close to happening. Then last year around mid season Chan Gailey admitted he needed to get both his RB's at least 20 carries each to win games. Again, this never ever happened. Both Gailey & Hackett seem to think they have a superstar QB behind center and Hackett keeps calling shotgun, 3 wide sets. Its like Hackett starts the game intent on running it and when that fails, and it mostly has. Then he starts going pass happy just like Gailey. The thing in common with both these coaches is neither coach had an elite QB behind center to allow all that passing to work. In Hacketts case it is particularly damning because he has rookies that don't know how to set protections, read thru more then one or two progressions. How to make hot reads or read a defense and call the proper audibles that will make the play work. Top OC's find a way to make the run game work, PERIOD! Like Gailey, Hackett gives up on the run game far to soon in every game. (week ten) Pittsburgh 20 rushes, 39 passes.(L) (week nine) Chiefs 38 rushes, 39 passes. (L) This game was the one that really opened my eyes about Hackett, with Tuel at QB, and I knew how raw & limited he was in college. If EJ was something of a "project" at QB then wth was Tuel? An Odyssey? Yet, he was allowed to throw it 39 times. The Bills RB's were killing the Chiefs#5 defense. Tuel made some bad throws / decisions and it cost them the game. A top OC would have NEVER put this QB into this situation!!! (week eight) NO Saints 25 rushes, 39 passes (L) (week seven) Miami 30 rushes, 32 passes (W) (week six) Cincinnati 32 rushes, 32 passes (L) Close OT game the Bills could have won. (week five) Cleveland 31 rushes, 41 passes (L) EJ went down and this game showed how raw and inexperienced Tuel really was. (week four) Baltimore 55 rushes, 22 passes (W) This is how it should have been all season! I was ecstatic when I saw these stats, and thought the Bills could do really well this year if this type of game plan continued. (week three) NY Jets 25 rushes, 42 passes.(L) Bills QB sacked 8 times. (week two) Carolina 33 rushes, 39 passes. (W) (week one) New England 34 rushes, 27 passes (L) Close game the Bills could have won If you look at the throws EJ made in first game against the Patriots, 3 deep left, one deep middle, two deep right. He was throwing deep often enough. But, this was when he had Robert Woods and Marquise Goodwin, and a full receiving corps. Stevie Johnson hasn't been close to 100% for quite awhile, and with both Woods & Goodwin out, and so many with injuries the receiving corps is in complete disarray. I suspect EJ doesn't trust his current receivers to run the right routes. Another big reason as to why Hackett should be running it more and throwing it less. Its up to the OC to find new creative ways to make the run game work, even when it isn't working. JMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDH Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 Fine but if you know you have a QB who likes the short dump off, why not design more plays featuring Spiller cutting across the middle of the field? GET YOUR BEST PLAYER THE BALL. That's your only job. I think it's pretty obvious that Spiller is not the best player on offense. Most talented? Yep, but until he learns how to run up the field instead of across it he'll see fewer and fewer carries. He's in year 3, how long does it take to figure this out? He's going to Reggie Bush the Bills and not figure it out until he's on another team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 Marrone does not strike me as a guy who hangs onto coaches that dont perform.......I think this statement is a bit early......first.....lets see if Hackett improves...second...lets see how Marrone handles it. Too early they havent even had a full year yet I seriously do have trouble figuring out if it's the play calling or the play execution - and if the players aren't executing simple limited in number plays, would they do better with different plays? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsBytheBay Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 Check out Joe Buscaglia's photos he is tweeting of Spiller's runs. He missed big holes right up the middle and bounced outside instead. That's not Hackett's fault. It's also not Hackett's fault that EJ had no confidence to throw down field and checked down repeatedly even when more yardage was needed. The offense simply didn't execute so there is no way to know whether the play calls would have worked had they been executed properly. link? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delete This Account Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 jeepers. one week, the Bills put up a season-best 470 yards with an undrafted rookie, the next, a rusty Manuel proves he still has a long way to go in developing, and this somehow falls on Hackett. the media isn't pointing the finger at Hackett, because it's been busy pointing the finger at EJ, because he's got a long way to go to prove himself as a bona fide starter. jw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 Maybe Hackett doesn't think that EJ can hack it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LB3 Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 (edited) Sunday's loss was hard to watch. Even harder to watch was the extremely vanilla play calls on offense. At the beginning of the year Hackett was interviewed by the John Murphy show saying that he was going to be utilizing our strengths getting people into space speed and allowing them to make plays. After looking through the aftermath news stories about their loss, not one media source called out Hackett for how basic JV Highschool his game plan really was. Marrone is partly to blame for not showing faith on fourth and 5 from the 36 yd line and punting but if i'm in his shoes, our defense was our only hope of scoring points and how sad is that. Mix the calls up, surprise people, maybe call a trick play every so often to keep things exciting for the fans at least. Then if we lose we could go back and say, gee that sucked but remember that one play that was a gutsy call and at least they put themselves out there a bit. I think everyone here agrees that we are all done with conservative coaching. The playoffs are lost, lets get aggressive and see what happens? Heck we might start winning games if we're relentless. Another suggestion is to use no huddle the way Kelly did when you have them on their backs, not when you're two touchdowns back and the defense is gassed. We need to huddle to give them a freaking rest. My hope for the remainder of the season is that they ditch the bullsh** play calling and get more aggressive. Open the dang playbook all the way up and if EJ can't soak it up on the fly then we need a new QB next year. Let's see what you have Hackett , your job is on the line as well and we haven't seen much more than a predictable check down offense. The media isn't pointing the finger at Hackett because unlike us, they aren't emotionally attached and therefore have a better ability to look at all factors that we ignore because it's been the same thing for years. Playing with 3 different qbs through 10 games is tough on any coordinator, let alone a rookie coordinator. Look at the other teams with back up qbs playing. None are doing well with the exception being Philly but he was challenging for the starting job in preseason. Just look at the Packers. Three weeks ago they were Super Bowl contenders. Rodgers goes down and all of a sudden their defense sucks and their offensive scheme is crap. Those are just the breaks. No matter what, i love this team. If i didn't, I'd stop watching. Go Bills! Edited November 13, 2013 by KikoSeeBallKikoGetBall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atlbillsfan1975 Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 Hacketts job is NOT on the line. Like it or not, he is here as long as Marrone is here. Hackett is Marrones buddy just like Grossman, the awful ST Coach is here. They will go with Marrone because any new coach will not hire either one. If that is th ecase the Bills will have a new HC AGAIN in after the 2015 season. Hackett is not a good QB coach or OC. And the special teams are soft and sad. Pettine will bail after next year and the Bills will be the worse team in the league in 2015. Hope i am wrong but if Marrone keeps his staff intact after this year he has started the clock on how long he has to be a HC in the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewildrabbit Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 jeepers. one week, the Bills put up a season-best 470 yards with an undrafted rookie, the next, a rusty Manuel proves he still has a long way to go in developing, and this somehow falls on Hackett. the media isn't pointing the finger at Hackett, because it's been busy pointing the finger at EJ, because he's got a long way to go to prove himself as a bona fide starter. jw Yea, and Hackett is pointing right along with everyone else. The majority of those 470 yards were from the RB's to the tune of 241 yards. Plus the RB's were averaging 6.3 YPC and dominating that Chiefs #5 defensive unit. Then this OC has a kid who never won more then 4 outta 26 games in college sling it all over....and it worked...right up until he had to make a play on 3rd and goal. That QB then threw an unforgiving pick 6 which turned around the entire game. None of these rookie QB's should be forced to shoulder the game this soon. In my view Hackett calls so many pass plays like he has a vet QB back there. But then, this is the same old story for every young QB no matter what happens with his surrounding cast, coaches, players, its always the QB's fault. Bottom line here is that this HC & OC had better figure out a way to win games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delete This Account Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 Bottom line here is that this HC & OC had better figure out a way to win games. so does EJ. jw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Formerly_of_Roch Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 Actually just last week I read two articles where the media pointed fingers at Hackett, both stated he was doing a good job, one was even from Sully. As other poster mentioned their view tends to be more rational as opposed to many here so easy to miss them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CardinalScotts Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 The Bills are 24th in the league in points per game. Considering the following, I'm not sure that's horrible production: * Our starting QB is a rookie who plays like one. * Our starting QB has been injured. Our other QBs have been a PS player and UDFA. * Our RBs have been dinged up. * Our offensive line is only so-so. * Our TEs are only so-so. * Our WRs have been injured. Also, let's remember that Hackett is still learning. Presumably, he's going to get better with more NFL experience. ya this idiots Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bisonbrigade Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 I think there playbook was written by fisher price. If your offense is struggling how about a flea flicker, a screen to spiller, a reverse, something. They run sweeps, off tackle runs, and primitive pass plays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 ...(week nine) Chiefs 38 rushes, 39 passes. (L) This game was the one that really opened my eyes about Hackett, with Tuel at QB, and I knew how raw & limited he was in college. If EJ was something of a "project" at QB then wth was Tuel? An Odyssey? Yet, he was allowed to throw it 39 times. The Bills RB's were killing the Chiefs#5 defense. Tuel made some bad throws / decisions and it cost them the game. A top OC would have NEVER put this QB into this situation!!! No offense, but I have to question the context of all the stats you list as a basis to slam Hackett for not running the ball enough with young QBs. For instance, it was pointed out numerous times after the KC game that early in the 4th quarter of that game, the Bills had a run/pass ratio of 35/23. Gee, I wonder what happened to cause that ratio to shift so dramatically. Could it be they were forced to play catch-up? If there is ONE thing Hackett has done this year, it's try to protect his young QBs with the running game. But there comes a point when you're behind and you're just running the clock out on yourself. GO BILLS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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