bbb Posted July 2, 2013 Share Posted July 2, 2013 How could you have all these unique critiques of him and say he writes the same story as all the writers on the same topic? If he did that, he'd blend in with the rest of them instead of standing out for such harsh criticism. So, you're critiquing him because he wrote the same thing basically after Jovan B. And, I'm sure if he wrote something different, you'd say he's contradicting himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prickly Pete Posted July 2, 2013 Share Posted July 2, 2013 We'll just respectfully disagree and leave it at that. You are making the point that big time school athletics is completely separate from the educational system. I agree that to a great extent they do exist separately from the educatiional system, but not completely. When drug rules exist in the football operation and they are ignored by the coaches and players then in my view things have gotten out of hand. If you are promoting an athletic system that is completely divorced from the educational system, then that is a reasonable point of view. The problem with your position is that as it currently exists it is still associated with the educational institution, although in some places it is a very thin relationship. If you have drug rules in your athletic program and they are ignored then what is the point of even having those rules. Maybe the point is to allow people to hide their head in the sand, and let fans pretend it's "family entertainment", I don't know. Drug use in football is rampant. PED's, painkillers, and "post-game relaxants" are used and abused at both the college and pro-level. Hernandez is not an aberration in this matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted July 2, 2013 Share Posted July 2, 2013 My pointing out the flaws in your post are hardly evidence of "defending the pats". Nice misdirection. Exactly what did Hernandez do while a member of the patriots prior to this month that has led you to conclude that the pats "knew he was a dirtbag" and therefore should not have given him a new contract last year? Enlighten us all. Hernandez told teams at the combine about his drug use. The pats gave him a tiny signing bonus and an incentive laden rookie contract that he would earn in full if he behaved. He did and they rewarded him with a new contract early. You are unable to articulate why this was a mistake. And since your arguement that they were wrong (or very bad men) for giving a new contract is nonsense, your claim that they should have stood by him until conviction is even less logical. You keep asking me what I know about Hernandez -- the answer is nothing. That doesn't mean my logic is flawed. I didn't say the Pats* were "bad men" for giving AH an extension, and I didn't even say it was a mistake at the time they did it. I suggested they were desperate to keep one of their talented receivers in the fold because of what else was happening on that roster. They ignored the negatives in favor of "locking up" a good football player (bad choice of words). I guess they figured the "Patriot Way" would keep AH on the straight and narrow. They were wrong. It's not faulty logic to infer, however, that had the Pats* felt AH was a solid citizen they would have waited to release him and start the PR machine until after the legal action took its course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted July 2, 2013 Share Posted July 2, 2013 Maybe the point is to allow people to hide their head in the sand, and let fans pretend it's "family entertainment", I don't know. Drug use in football is rampant. PED's, painkillers, and "post-game relaxants" are used and abused at both the college and pro-level. Hernandez is not an aberration in this matter. Aaron Hernandez murdered someone, execution-style. That's not the same as Brett Favre getting hooked on Vicodin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted July 2, 2013 Share Posted July 2, 2013 How could you have all these unique critiques of him and say he writes the same story as all the writers on the same topic? If he did that, he'd blend in with the rest of them instead of standing out for such harsh criticism. So, you're critiquing him because he wrote the same thing basically after Jovan B. And, I'm sure if he wrote something different, you'd say he's contradicting himself. whitlock is widely considered a joke in the sports world. im not sure that Weos comments on him were a well thought out thesis of why hes a joke, but they did touch on issues that whitlock has had. im not sure if you genuinely think hes a talented well respected writer, or if you are primarily just giving weo a hard time here? You keep asking me what I know about Hernandez -- the answer is nothing. That doesn't mean my logic is flawed. I didn't say the Pats* were "bad men" for giving AH an extension, and I didn't even say it was a mistake at the time they did it. I suggested they were desperate to keep one of their talented receivers in the fold because of what else was happening on that roster. They ignored the negatives in favor of "locking up" a good football player (bad choice of words). I guess they figured the "Patriot Way" would keep AH on the straight and narrow. They were wrong. It's not faulty logic to infer, however, that had the Pats* felt AH was a solid citizen they would have waited to release him and start the PR machine until after the legal action took its course. unless, much like you or i, they looked at the evidence that they expected and decided that even the best case scenario was not something they wanted their names attached to. some teammates loved him, some hated him. he had big red flags, but he had things that would cause one to have hope he would steer towards a positive track. they thought his talent outweighed the risk - many would agree with that assessment a year ago. in the end, no one expected all this. when the downside(negative publicity galore, distractions all over) outweighed the potential reward (unlikely to play this year, if ever again) they moved on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prickly Pete Posted July 2, 2013 Share Posted July 2, 2013 (edited) Aaron Hernandez murdered someone, execution-style. That's not the same as Brett Favre getting hooked on Vicodin. Ugh. I don't know how to respond to this....maybe "Wearing orange and blue is not a crime!", or "Marv Levy was never a tight end!!", or "Steve Tasker played college football, and he is a family man!!!" Go back and read the previous posts before commenting... Edited July 2, 2013 by Marauder'sMicro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerball Posted July 2, 2013 Share Posted July 2, 2013 The Pats should be criticized for AH's extension just as much as the Bills should be for Fitz' extension. in retrospect both were disasters. One on the field, the other off the field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted July 2, 2013 Share Posted July 2, 2013 Maybe the point is to allow people to hide their head in the sand, and let fans pretend it's "family entertainment", I don't know. Drug use in football is rampant. PED's, painkillers, and "post-game relaxants" are used and abused at both the college and pro-level. Hernandez is not an aberration in this matter. Hernandez is certainly an aberration; he is a killer! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LancasterSteve Posted July 2, 2013 Share Posted July 2, 2013 Your choice of night manager or fry technician doesn't have multimillion dollar implications on your franchise. There's little risk of the fry tech you just turned down going to a competitor and causing your business to suffer greatly. Its unlikely that your choice between qualified applicants is going to vault you among the most successful managers in the business and bring you immortality among the fans of your product. Risk and reward. Make better analogies. Where the hell did I ever mention what line of work ? Far from any franchise type work but that's beside the point. The Chicago Bears flagged this future muderer and took him off their draft board. Very possible that other teams followed suit but New England it would seem ignored or disreguarded all the red flags. It was no secret to every NFL team of what the NFL's background checks revealed about Hernandez. All teams are given the same background information as part of the overview for each player. Some teams dig deeper, some just take that player off the board Your insults show an immaturity that I rarely remember seeing in my line of work. Most were screened out before they were interviewed by me. As far as risk/ reward, the NFL and particularily the New England Patriots are going to receive a lot of negative press. Does anyone for a moment believe that the NFL or that most NFL teams would want to leave the same door open for this to occur in the future if they can put in force stricter (drafting) hiring pratices. Damage control costs money. It is already costing the Patriots with their jersey buy back. The trial most likely will begin this fall and the negative press the NFL will receive will be countered by advertising and that is going to be expensive. No one in the NFL, especially the teams that do not draft players of questionable character will be all too happy to foot the bill because of another teams arrogance. The NFL being an employer can set hiring guidelines that all teams must follow if adopted by a majority vote. Is this imminent, probably not at present but if another shoe were to fall there undoubtedly would be pressure (both internally from owners and externally from the press and paying public) to adopt a different set of hiring guidelines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted July 2, 2013 Share Posted July 2, 2013 in retrospect both were disasters. One on the field, the other off the field. Yep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted July 2, 2013 Share Posted July 2, 2013 Ugh. I don't know how to respond to this....maybe "Wearing orange and blue is not a crime!", or "Marv Levy was never a tight end!!", or "Steve Tasker played college football, and he is a family man!!!" Go back and read the previous posts before commenting... Ugh. Look up the big words before using them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prickly Pete Posted July 3, 2013 Share Posted July 3, 2013 (edited) Hernandez is certainly an aberration; he is a killer! Yeah, but we were discussing his marijuana use, where he is definitely NOT an aberration. But then, you know that... your argument is so lacking in logic that you have create tangents. Ugh. Look up the big words before using them. You're right! Favre must be watched closely from now on!! Thanks for the tip. Edited July 3, 2013 by Marauder'sMicro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted July 3, 2013 Share Posted July 3, 2013 How could you have all these unique critiques of him and say he writes the same story as all the writers on the same topic? If he did that, he'd blend in with the rest of them instead of standing out for such harsh criticism. So, you're critiquing him because he wrote the same thing basically after Jovan B. And, I'm sure if he wrote something different, you'd say he's contradicting himself. No, he does jump on the same bandwagon (who isn't writing about AH and thug culture right now?). I was also pointing out his inconsistencies as he tries to be more provocative than his peers. You keep asking me what I know about Hernandez -- the answer is nothing. That doesn't mean my logic is flawed. I didn't say the Pats* were "bad men" for giving AH an extension, and I didn't even say it was a mistake at the time they did it. I suggested they were desperate to keep one of their talented receivers in the fold because of what else was happening on that roster. They ignored the negatives in favor of "locking up" a good football player (bad choice of words). I guess they figured the "Patriot Way" would keep AH on the straight and narrow. They were wrong. It's not faulty logic to infer, however, that had the Pats* felt AH was a solid citizen they would have waited to release him and start the PR machine until after the legal action took its course. You clearly stated that the pats were aware of his "proclivities" before they re-signed him, yet signed him anyway. I'm again asking you to tell us exactly what those proclivities were that they were aware of at that time and why this should have compelled them not to offer a new contract. As for the "solid citizen" stuff, it should be clear to you that after he was picked for murder 1, they no longer thought he was the a "solid citizen" anymore. Why even ask? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted July 3, 2013 Share Posted July 3, 2013 Neither. Man is an animal with limited capacity for logic and reason. Man has been killing man since the day we ceased to be monkeys/humanoids who slaughtered one another. Violence is woven into our very makeup. We are currently living in the most peaceful times man has ever known. On the discussion of whether the media reflects or reacts to violence in society and whether the violence in society reflects or reacts to violence in the media: I didn't say that the world was any more or less violent than it's ever been and in fact I believe that very few things change over time, contrary to those who believe that the world is any worse or any better than it was one decade, one century, or one millenium ago. What I'm questioning is the "style" of violence, the motif if you would. Why was AH, who grew up in a decent home in a decent city, so drawn to the gun/gang model of violence? I don't think you are very realistic about big time sports. You are applying McDonalds-style employment screening, to a billion dollar industry that seeks out cocky, in your face, violent individuals. It's not a sport for healthy, well-adjusted people. That's news to you? It's not like he is in a constant rage or something. He is reasonably well spoken, and can be easy going etc. There were red flags, but this is a billion dollar industry, filled with all kinds of troubled backgrounds etc. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B70pVcuHVmI The reports (from more than one source) are that approximately 12 teams had Hernandez as undraftable. Mike Brown of the Bengals disclosed yesterday that the Bengals were one of the teams who considered AH undraftable. Just TODAY, it's been reported that: 1) There was an incident at Florida in 2007 that went unreported (swept under the rug) that AH cold cocked a bar manager (who suffered a ruptured ear drum as a result) while drinking as an underaged person. The argument arose due to AH's refusal to pay for two drinks. AH claimed that he didn't order the drinks. http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/07/01/another-gainesville-incident-involving-hernandez-comes-to-light/ 2) AH was involved in a domestic disturbances in 2012 with his then-pregnant fiancee while renting a place in Hermosa Beach, CA. and officers were called to the apartment on multiple occasions for noise. On the domestic disturbance, a call was made to police but when they showed up his girlfriend did not want to press charges. http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/07/02/hernandez-was-involved-in-domestic-dispute-disturbance-last-year/ On top of the civil suit pending where AH shot a man, his probably involvement in an unsolved double homicide, and several other incidents he was involved in it's perfectly clear that all the NFL teams, the Patriots included, knew what they were dealing with from a character standpoint. Between the teams' security department and NFL security, it's obvious that the Cheatriots*** assumed the risk of employing this very questionable human being solely because he is a talented player and their arsenal of weapons was getting quite bare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted July 3, 2013 Share Posted July 3, 2013 You're right! Favre must be watched closely from now on!! Thanks for the tip. To say this makes no sense would be offensive to the word, "no." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prickly Pete Posted July 3, 2013 Share Posted July 3, 2013 To say this makes no sense would be offensive to the word, "no." Oh Gug's, you do it to yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buff_bills4ever Posted July 3, 2013 Share Posted July 3, 2013 http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/man-police-wanted-talk-aaron-hernandez-dies-car-012034083.html Person or interest in Hernandez case turns up dead in one car accident in Hernandez Uncle's car. Just can't get any weirder, can it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prickly Pete Posted July 3, 2013 Share Posted July 3, 2013 (edited) Between the teams' security department and NFL security, it's obvious that the Cheatriots*** assumed the risk of employing this very questionable human being solely because he is a talented player and their arsenal of weapons was getting quite bare. Of course they did, but that doesn't make them responsible for his actions off the field. It doesn't appear that the victims were related to the NFL, or even that AH's high level of income enabled him in some way. These killings could have been done by any average wage earner. There have been many violent, bad guys in the NFL, some turned out worse than others. I think everyone agrees that he was a risk. The NFL has been taking chances on players for a long time. There were 20 teams that didn't consider him un-draftable (and how easy is it to say he was off a team's draftboard NOW? And how many would have changed their mind in the 6th rd, or the 7th, or if he was a free agent?). I don't hold any team, or the league, responsible for the off-field actions of their employees, any more than I hold MetroBus responsible for actions of their off-duty drivers. Edited July 3, 2013 by Marauder'sMicro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted July 3, 2013 Share Posted July 3, 2013 http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/man-police-wanted-talk-aaron-hernandez-dies-car-012034083.html Person or interest in Hernandez case turns up dead in one car accident in Hernandez Uncle's car. Just can't get any weirder, can it? The car crash was ruled an accident. No foul play suspected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted July 3, 2013 Share Posted July 3, 2013 http://sports.yahoo....-012034083.html Person or interest in Hernandez case turns up dead in one car accident in Hernandez Uncle's car. Just can't get any weirder, can it? The report said the car shot through the air and hit the Farmington Country Club six feet off the ground. Uh...what? The car hit a golf course in mid-air? Must be the Bluesmobile... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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