San Jose Bills Fan Posted June 29, 2013 Share Posted June 29, 2013 I would argue Gonk and Hernandez have both already justified their draft picks. Obviously you don't want to sell a maniac who murders people in the regular course of his business...but from a football perspective the Gronk/Hernandez draft was a success already. I agree. Player careers are short in the NFL and it's not like they were top 10-15 picks in a draft. When you can get that kind of production out of second and fourth round picks and go to a SB and multiple championship games then you have done very well. BTW, I don't think Hernandez slipped in the draft. Teams view TE's a little differently now but a few years ago a short TE was just a tweener. Teams wanted TE's 6'5" and up and Hernandez was more of an h-back, a position which was out of style in the league. That didn't help them win any Super Bowls and now one is gone forever and the other is injury prone. Success my ass. They may look like a success to a fan of a losing team but the Pats were winning 12+ games a year without them. With them they won 12+ games and no Super Bowls. This is an interesting point and I think it was spurred partly by Peter King's tweet. I think there's no question that Gronk and Hernandez have justified their draft positions, even if neither plays another down of football. But I also believe that Belichick has misgivings at this moment regarding Hernandez and if he could re-do the draft, might likely not draft him. As to the discussion of Hernandez' role in the Lloyd homicide, there's zero doubt in my mind that he was the ringleader and these guys his entourage. I don't think the prosecution will have any trouble proving that to be the case. We don't know who delivered the kill shots but I wonder what the law is if AH "ordered" one of his loser puppets to pull the trigger? Also I wouldn't be surprised if the two other losers pointed the finger at Hernandez in order to save their own skins. Finally I'd hate to see one or more of them plea down in order to seal a conviction on Hernandez. I'd prefer to see all three rot in prison for a very long time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted June 29, 2013 Share Posted June 29, 2013 (edited) No, he has no legal basis for a mitigating factor. Even if the scenario played out as you described he was aware that one of the parties had a gun. This was a case where they picked up the victim in his rented car late at night and took him for a ride to a secluded location. AH was the orchestrator of the event. He brought people from out of town to fortify his position. There is nothing (that I see) that he can lay claim to to help his very hopeless cause. That's what I thought. It'll be interesting to see what his lawyer argues. The more details we get it seems "slightly reduced sentencing" is about the highest hope unless he has a real ace up his sleeve. Edited June 29, 2013 by NoSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted June 29, 2013 Share Posted June 29, 2013 @RapSheet #Patriots have voided Aaron Hernandez's remaining guarantees, source says. $2.5M guaranteed salaries, $3.25M signing bonus, workout bonuses Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted June 29, 2013 Share Posted June 29, 2013 Unless his defense team is Houdini, Hernandez is heading for life in prison...evidence against him is becoming overwhelming... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Hindsight Posted June 29, 2013 Share Posted June 29, 2013 @RapSheet #Patriots have voided Aaron Hernandez's remaining guarantees, source says. $2.5M guaranteed salaries, $3.25M signing bonus, workout bonuses Good move by the Pats* Very happy to see how they have handled this whole situation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted June 29, 2013 Share Posted June 29, 2013 That's what I thought. It'll be interesting to see what his lawyer argues. The more details we get it seems "slightly reduced sentencing" is about the highest hope unless he has a real ace up his sleeve. Probably going to try and convince it was self defense and that Lloyd attacked him...lol...right, he attacked him because he knew he was about to get whacked mafia style Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted June 29, 2013 Share Posted June 29, 2013 That's what I thought. It'll be interesting to see what his lawyer argues. The more details we get it seems "slightly reduced sentencing" is about the highest hope unless he has a real ace up his sleeve. The prosecutors are not going to give him any break, even a meaningless symbolic break. The reason I believe that is that he (apparently) orchestrated this assassination to silence someone he was afraid might squeal on him regarding other killings. The people who are more likely to get a "meaningless symbolic break" are his hired guns. If they verify what happened in this killing and they explain the motive for this killing (the victim's knowledge of the drive-by killing) then they might get some sort of deal. Getting some of the participants to provide the motive in this cold-hearted killing is a big deal. It provides the narrative for this case. If the hired guns help close the drive-by killing case then they have some bargaining chips. Make no mistake about it they are probably going to spend the rest of their lives in jail with a small chance of getting out. Having an infinitesimal chance of eventually getting out is better than not having a chance to get out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanker Posted June 29, 2013 Share Posted June 29, 2013 You don't have to pull the trigger to be charged with capital murder. If you are involved with the situation in a substantial way such as being in the car as a driver knowing that a shooting is going to occur you are just as culpable as the person who is the shooter. In the assassination killing it doesn't matter if he mercilessly shot the victim or somelse did. He is the one who orchestrated the crime and he was aware that a killing was going to happen. So he is just as guilty if not moreso because he orchestrated it. In the prior incident of a dirve by shooting and killing the same logic of the law applies. If he drove back to the confrontation with guns in the car looking for the victims with the end result being that his associate in the car does the shooting and killing everyone in the car can be charged with the killing. The reasoning behind the law is that you created the dangerous situation and thus you are just as responsible in the killing as the actual shooter. Another example is if you rob a store with a group of other robbers and one of your associates panics in the robbery and shoots the clerk you are just as culapable in the eyes of the law, even if you yourself didn't bring a gun to the event because you are responsible for the event that resulted in a killing. JohnC, thank you for that and your subsequent posts to date on this subject. I'm just cautious about waiting for all the facts and evidence to be brought forth before a judgement is pronounced. Lord knows, we've seen enough torch carrying mobs seeking "justice" recently. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLvGnro4Cgw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattM Posted June 29, 2013 Share Posted June 29, 2013 Good move by the Pats* Very happy to see how they have handled this whole situation Believe it or not, I agree on this. I hate the Pats* as much (or more than) the next Bills fan, but I must admit I can't find fault with how they've handled the present situation with Hernandez. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted June 29, 2013 Share Posted June 29, 2013 Good move by the Pats* Very happy to see how they have handled this whole situation Speaking of good moves by the Pats, and I hate the Pats and all, but this is pretty cool... http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/patriots-conduct-aaron-hernandez-jersey-exchange-july-6-193511953.html Patriots to conduct Aaron Hernandez jersey exchange on July 6-7 On Friday, the Patriots announced that fans who have purchased a No. 81 jersey — from either Reebok or Nike — from the team's store or through the team's website will have a two-day window to exchange the jersey for a new, in-stock Patriots jersey of comparable value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerball Posted June 29, 2013 Share Posted June 29, 2013 Speaking of good moves by the Pats, and I hate the Pats and all, but this is pretty cool... http://sports.yahoo....-193511953.html You're a little late. We've already decided that this is the way to get all Hernandez jerseys out of the stands. Pats* don't want to suffer the embarrassment of having TV cameras pick up fans wearing his jersey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted June 29, 2013 Share Posted June 29, 2013 You're a little late. We've already decided that this is the way to get all Hernandez jerseys out of the stands. Pats* don't want to suffer the embarrassment of having TV cameras pick up fans wearing his jersey. I'm still waiting for the "that'll really make a huge $3 dent in the original $300 profit they made selling the jersey in the first place" posts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 I'm still waiting for the "that'll really make a huge $3 dent in the original $300 profit they made selling the jersey in the first place" posts not only that but they can control who gets what jersey. If they have a lot of extra on player "x" they can give it away and cut overhead. Then find a way to write it off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rafter Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 I'm still waiting for the "that'll really make a huge $3 dent in the original $300 profit they made selling the jersey in the first place" posts It looks like you might be better off selling it on ebay than trading it in. Looks to be a collectors item to the d-bags of the world http://www.ebay.com/itm/Aaron-Hernandez-New-England-Patriots-football-jersey-M-w-SuperBowl-patch-/261237113461?pt=US_Football_Fan_Shop&hash=item3cd2f20275 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 (edited) The New England Patriots ProShop will offer a free jersey exchange of any #81 Hernandez jersey purchased at the Patriots ProShop or online at PatriotsProShop.com for a new Patriots jersey of comparable value. The free jersey exchange will be available exclusively at the Patriots ProShop the weekend of Saturday, July 6 and Sunday, July 7. So two salient points. It's not made clear who gets to choose the jersey but one would assume it's the customer. It says "for a new Patriots jersey of comparable value" so probably the customer chooses the player's jersey. Secondly it's only a two-day window to exchange. It seems like the team should make the exchange a long-term policy. Not all their fans will be able to take advantage of the program within the two-day window. Why not make it indefinite? Is the point to make the team look good with PR or to actually eradicate as many Hernandez jerseys as possible? Edited June 30, 2013 by San Jose Bills Fan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NDBUFFCUSEFAN Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 The New England Patriots ProShop will offer a free jersey exchange of any #81 Hernandez jersey purchased at the Patriots ProShop or online at PatriotsProShop.com for a new Patriots jersey of comparable value. The free jersey exchange will be available exclusively at the Patriots ProShop the weekend of Saturday, July 6 and Sunday, July 7. So two salient points. It's not made clear who gets to choose the jersey but one would assume it's the customer. It says "for a new Patriots jersey of comparable value" so probably the customer chooses the player's jersey. Secondly it's only a two-day window to exchange. It seems like the team should make the exchange a long-term policy. Not all their fans will be able to take advantage of the program within the two-day window. Why not make it indefinite? Is the point to make the team look good with PR or to actually eradicate as many Hernandez jerseys as possible? I must have missed when the Bills did this for OJ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 I must have missed when the Bills did this for OJ. Why would a team do this for a player who hadn't played for them in 17 years? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbb Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 And players jerseys - esp. retro ones - were not nearly as prevalent as they are today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NDBUFFCUSEFAN Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 Why would a team do this for a player who hadn't played for them in 17 years? So murder suspects lose their negative connotations over time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 (edited) So murder suspects lose their negative connotations over time? It's apples to oranges. Hernandez is an active player in an age where player jerseys are popular. OJ was a long-retired player who played when player jerseys were not anywhere near as common. Hernandez is arrested in the age of internet, 24-hour news cycles, smart devices, wi-fi. OJ played during the newspaper age. The internet wasn't as heavily trafficked as it is now. Did the Panthers conduct a jersey exchange when Rae Carruth shot the mother of his unborn child? Carruth was an active player and this happened 14 years ago. The answer is no, the Panthers did not. Is there an actual point that you're trying to make? Is this some lame-ass attempt to criticize the Bills 19 years after OJ committed murder and 36 years after he played for them? Do you care to state what you're getting at? Edited June 30, 2013 by San Jose Bills Fan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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