BillsfaninMyrtleBeach Posted July 3, 2013 Share Posted July 3, 2013 Maybe he can star in a sequel to The Longest Yard". Well at least with his size he's probably not going to end up as "Bubba's" prison B word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted July 3, 2013 Share Posted July 3, 2013 Of course they did, but that doesn't make them responsible for his actions off the field. I don't hold any team, or the league, responsible for the off-field actions of their employees, any more than I hold MetroBus responsible for actions of their off-duty drivers. I never said the team was responsible for the actions of it's players. The team is however completely responsible for the team's actions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted July 4, 2013 Share Posted July 4, 2013 So nothing earth shattering, but deadspin has some of the findings from his "flophouse" The two biggest developments being Carlos Ortiz is the one that led them there, and the warrant made reference to the "sale of cocaine" http://deadspin.com/...floph-659695754 Funny how a guy who lives in a McMansion has an apartment just a short distance away. I'm gonna guess that his girlfriend had no idea about the existence of this apartment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prickly Pete Posted July 4, 2013 Share Posted July 4, 2013 (edited) I never said the team was responsible for the actions of it's players. The team is however completely responsible for the team's actions. ' The team didn't commit any crimes. They signed a guy that as far as I know had no criminal record, who played very well for them, and who they cut when he got into trouble. I'm no Patriot lover, but I think they acted appropriately. Edited July 4, 2013 by Marauder'sMicro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted July 4, 2013 Share Posted July 4, 2013 ' The team didn't commit any crimes. They signed a guy that as far as I know had no criminal record, who played very well for them, and who they cut when he got into trouble. I'm no Patriot lover, but I think they acted appropriately. The team either knowingly made a calculated risk that blew up in their faces or they were oblivious to the fact that they were making a commitment to a player that numerous other teams had blackballed. Take your choice. They may have acted appropriately in cutting Hernandez but extending him with a lucrative contract certainly begs the question whether they acted appropriately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prickly Pete Posted July 4, 2013 Share Posted July 4, 2013 (edited) The team either knowingly made a calculated risk that blew up in their faces or they were oblivious to the fact that they were making a commitment to a player that numerous other teams had blackballed. Take your choice. They may have acted appropriately in cutting Hernandez but extending him with a lucrative contract certainly begs the question whether they acted appropriately. I'm not sure how to resolve these circular conversations. All I can say, is I don't think the Pats (or Bills, or Bengals,...) are obligated to police their players, that is law enforcement's job. They hired a very good athlete that had no criminal record, and he performed well for them. Off the field, he ran into troubles with the law, and they released him (as they should have). Any "red flags" were their own risk, but they don't control what the players get involved in off the field. As far as I know, they weren't "harboring a criminal" or something. He had his own life away from the team. When they f*** up, you release them. Simple as that. Edited July 4, 2013 by Marauder'sMicro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted July 4, 2013 Share Posted July 4, 2013 I'm not sure how to resolve these circular conversations. All I can say, is I don't think the Pats (or Bills, or Bengals,...) are obligated to police their players, that is law enforcement's job. They hired a very good athlete that had no criminal record, and he performed well for them. Off the field, he ran into troubles with the law, and they released him (as they should have). Any "red flags" were their own risk, but they don't control what the players get involved in off the field. As far as I know, they weren't "harboring a criminal" or something. He had his own life away from the team. When they f*** up, you release them. Simple as that. I'm saying that although a team never knows how a player will act, the very act of having that player on their team means (to me) that the team has made the determination that this player will not be a risk to be a felon and bring dishonor to himself and the team. Thus the team has to bear the responsibility of having made a bad decision when that player acts as Hernandez has acted. They have to be accountable for the fact that they made a miscalculation on a person's character. So I disagree with the idea that just because a team can't predict the future that they can simply wash their hands of any personnel decision gone bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bills44 Posted July 4, 2013 Share Posted July 4, 2013 Agreed, SJBF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted July 4, 2013 Share Posted July 4, 2013 (edited) The team either knowingly made a calculated risk that blew up in their faces or they were oblivious to the fact that they were making a commitment to a player that numerous other teams had blackballed. Take your choice. They may have acted appropriately in cutting Hernandez but extending him with a lucrative contract certainly begs the question whether they acted appropriately. I guess it depends on what you define as appropriate. Until it effects his job, is it appropriate to pay him in line with his skills? Where I would draw the line in my own life differs from the point I'd judge someone else. I won't judge the pats for extending him unless they were very aware of MAJOR off field transgressions. At the same time I'm quite alright with the bills shipping marshawn off before extending him or seeking a replacement to Travis Henry (disregarding how they went about getting that replacement) as a flipside to that coin. As far as we knew, the pats had a very good player that had a poor history and wasnt a great locker room guy but a special athlete that was showing up on Sundays. He had a new fiancé, at the time of resigning a child on the way, and was likely saying/doing a lot of the right things (I know that sounds absurd with a possible murder at the same time, but I don't think they fathomed that).... I get why it's easy to hit them, but I think it amounts to they took a risk, it failed beyond their wildest expectations and they generally handled it well when it did. Edited July 4, 2013 by NoSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted July 4, 2013 Share Posted July 4, 2013 You've pointed out a few times that Hernandez had no police record but both before he was drafted (when he was blackballed by over one-third of NFL teams) and before he was re-signed to an extension, there was plenty of evidence that this guy was a bad actor. I reject the notion stated or implied that what happened to the Cheatriots*** was simply bad luck. To me, the two decisions to employ Hernandez was an avoidable mistake. edit: This is a continued response to Marauder'sMicro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bills44 Posted July 4, 2013 Share Posted July 4, 2013 You've pointed out a few times that Hernandez had no police record but both before he was drafted (when he was blackballed by over one-third of NFL teams) and before he was re-signed to an extension, there was plenty of evidence that this guy was a bad actor. I reject the notion stated or implied that what happened to the Cheatriots*** was simply bad luck. To me, the two decisions to employ Hernandez was an avoidable mistake. edit: This is a continued response to Marauder'sMicro. Once again, bang on. I'm sure a missing a few of Hernandez's pre-draft Greatest Hits, but here goes: 1. Failed drug tests 2. Gang tats 3. Rupturing the eardrum of a bouncer 4. Possible involvement in a 2007 shooting. Sounds like kids being kids, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted July 4, 2013 Share Posted July 4, 2013 I guess it depends on what you define as appropriate. Until it effects his job, is it appropriate to pay him in line with his skills? Where I would draw the line in my own life differs from the point I'd judge someone else. I won't judge the pats for extending him unless they were very aware of MAJOR off field transgressions. At the same time I'm quite alright with the bills shipping marshawn off before extending him or seeking a replacement to Travis Henry (disregarding how they went about getting that replacement) as a flipside to that coin. As far as we knew, the pats had a very good player that had a poor history and wasnt a great locker room guy but a special athlete that was showing up on Sundays. He had a new fiancé, at the time of resigning a child on the way, and was likely saying/doing a lot of the right things (I know that sounds absurd with a possible murder at the same time, but I don't think they fathomed that).... I get why it's easy to hit them, but I think it amounts to they took a risk, it failed beyond their wildest expectations and they generally handled it well when it did. You know NoSaint, you and I are quite similar in that we're fairly forgiving of others in terms of benefit of the doubt and also we hold ourselves to a higher standard than we hold others. That said (with no proof), IMO the Cheatriots*** exercised reckless disregard for the truth about AH. I'm HIGHLY skeptical that they new nothing of these (how many incidents are we speaking of now? Seven, eight?) actions on his part and I believe that they hid their heads in the sand, hoping that the risk wouldn't blow up in their faces. I understand the NFL is a win-at-all-costs business but over one-third of the teams in the NFL said "no thanks" and "not at any cost" to AH even before he started becoming an even worse person. The Cheatriots*** re-signed this guy about 10 months ago which is after several of these incidents took place… some of them right in their own backyard. (Again without knowing) I reject the notion that the Cheatriots*** new nothing of AH's personal life. Remember, this is an organization that cheated for years. Why would anyone doubt that they were simply hoping the time bomb wouldn't explode before they won another Super Bowl? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted July 4, 2013 Share Posted July 4, 2013 (edited) You've pointed out a few times that Hernandez had no police record but both before he was drafted (when he was blackballed by over one-third of NFL teams) and before he was re-signed to an extension, there was plenty of evidence that this guy was a bad actor. I reject the notion stated or implied that what happened to the Cheatriots*** was simply bad luck. To me, the two decisions to employ Hernandez was an avoidable mistake. edit: This is a continued response to Marauder'sMicro. A lot of guys get blackballed. Many of then succeed trouble free, many are a handful for life. It was a risk. They had a level of risk in mind, and they lost the gamble. That's not exclusive of luck, but even though its bad luck it doesnt absolve them completely of what was a risky choice they now eat the consequences of (sudden departure of talent, distraction, cap hits, pr) That the pats had an especially close relationship with Florida.... Makes it harder to look at as an outsider. I'd be very curious to know what urban told bill behind closed doors. I bet that would be a fascinating room to by a fly on the wall of. Edited July 4, 2013 by NoSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bills44 Posted July 4, 2013 Share Posted July 4, 2013 You know NoSaint, you and I are quite similar in that we're fairly forgiving of others in terms of benefit of the doubt and also we hold ourselves to a higher standard than we hold others. That said (with no proof), IMO the Cheatriots*** exercised reckless disregard for the truth about AH. I'm HIGHLY skeptical that they new nothing of these (how many incidents are we speaking of now? Seven, eight?) actions on his part and I believe that they hid their heads in the sand, hoping that the risk wouldn't blow up in their faces. I understand the NFL is a win-at-all-costs business but over one-third of the teams in the NFL said "no thanks" and "not at any cost" to AH even before he started becoming an even worse person. The Cheatriots*** re-signed this guy about 10 months ago which is after several of these incidents took place… some of them right in their own backyard. (Again without knowing) I reject the notion that the Cheatriots*** new nothing of AH's personal life. Remember, this is an organization that cheated for years. Why would anyone doubt that they were simply hoping the time bomb wouldn't explode before they won another Super Bowl? Killing it tonight, SJBF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted July 4, 2013 Share Posted July 4, 2013 Thanks bills44. Great point NoSaint about the Urban Meyer/Belichick friendship. It would be an interesting conversation to eavesdrop on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted July 4, 2013 Share Posted July 4, 2013 (edited) You know NoSaint, you and I are quite similar in that we're fairly forgiving of others in terms of benefit of the doubt and also we hold ourselves to a higher standard than we hold others. That said (with no proof), IMO the Cheatriots*** exercised reckless disregard for the truth about AH. I'm HIGHLY skeptical that they new nothing of these (how many incidents are we speaking of now? Seven, eight?) actions on his part and I believe that they hid their heads in the sand, hoping that the risk wouldn't blow up in their faces. I understand the NFL is a win-at-all-costs business but over one-third of the teams in the NFL said "no thanks" and "not at any cost" to AH even before he started becoming an even worse person. The Cheatriots*** re-signed this guy about 10 months ago which is after several of these incidents took place… some of them right in their own backyard. (Again without knowing) I reject the notion that the Cheatriots*** new nothing of AH's personal life. Remember, this is an organization that cheated for years. Why would anyone doubt that they were simply hoping the time bomb wouldn't explode before they won another Super Bowl? To the start, I certainly think thats part of why even when we disagree its easy to respect your opinion. I know you've put good thought into it. It's tough on this one. I doubt they thought he was shooting people in their faces repeatedly, and doing that repeatedly through the years but I don't doubt they were aware there were red flags. That might simply be me wanting to be a fan of a league that wouldn't knowingly employ a man doing that in his free time. This is also a team that goes for it on 4th down in their own end of the field in the 4th quarter. They have formulas, and take real risks in the face of potential bad PR. Either their info was faulty, or their equation failed them, or it was some bad luck. Without being behind the scenes it's hard to gauge how heavily the fault falls on any of those - likely some weight on all three though. Edited July 4, 2013 by NoSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Jack Posted July 4, 2013 Share Posted July 4, 2013 Those hugely inflated prices on eBay for his jersey and other stuff, might not be true sales... Vigilante takes to eBay to thwart auctioning of Aaron Hernandez's jersey One thing I did learn from the article, is you could take the winning bidder to civil court if they don't pay. You still might not get your money, but can you imagine if enough people do this how it could hurt him legally? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted July 4, 2013 Share Posted July 4, 2013 You know NoSaint, you and I are quite similar in that we're fairly forgiving of others in terms of benefit of the doubt and also we hold ourselves to a higher standard than we hold others. That said (with no proof), IMO the Cheatriots*** exercised reckless disregard for the truth about AH. I'm HIGHLY skeptical that they new nothing of these (how many incidents are we speaking of now? Seven, eight?) actions on his part and I believe that they hid their heads in the sand, hoping that the risk wouldn't blow up in their faces. I understand the NFL is a win-at-all-costs business but over one-third of the teams in the NFL said "no thanks" and "not at any cost" to AH even before he started becoming an even worse person. The Cheatriots*** re-signed this guy about 10 months ago which is after several of these incidents took place… some of them right in their own backyard. (Again without knowing) I reject the notion that the Cheatriots*** new nothing of AH's personal life. Remember, this is an organization that cheated for years. Why would anyone doubt that they were simply hoping the time bomb wouldn't explode before they won another Super Bowl? You're getting a bit of a free ride here. You have to be much more explicit. Exactly what do you presume the pats knew about (things his team mates and the press knew nothing about until now) before they offered him a new contract? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prickly Pete Posted July 4, 2013 Share Posted July 4, 2013 I'm sure they knew he had problems, but do you really think they were somehow expecting murder(s)? I don't, and one of the interesting things about his personality profile is that he scored very high (I think a perfect 10) for his "Coach-ability". I could easily see Belichick thinking "this kid just needs a firm hand, my specialty"... I don't think that the Pats have a higher percentage of "bad guys" than the average NFL team. I can't tell how much of the vitriol is motivated by Bills fan's hatred of the Pats. I think there are LOTS of players with gang connections, playing in the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted July 4, 2013 Share Posted July 4, 2013 (edited) You're getting a bit of a free ride here. You have to be much more explicit. Exactly what do you presume the pats knew about (things his team mates and the press knew nothing about until now) before they offered him a new contract? WEO, I have to admit I don't understand your angle here -- you continue to insist we give specific information about what the Pats* did or didn't know before extending AH last August, when obviously we aren't going to have those details. What we DO have is the ability to logically speculate based upon the following: -- NFL locker rooms are a pretty tight-knit group -- Belichick is a control freak Former HC Mularkey talked about how much information coaches receive regarding what players are up to. Multiple reports have come out from AH's teammates. The Pats* no longer have strong leaders in that locker room, with the possible exception of Brady -- and how much does Mr. Giselle Bundchen really care about what's happening with the other guys when they're not practicing or playing? As I and SJBF have opined, it's foolish to think the Pats* extended AH believing he was a solid citizen and good guy. They took a calculated risk they hoped wouldn't blow up in their faces before they had one or two more Lombardis in the house. They were wrong. Edited July 4, 2013 by eball Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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