uncle flap Posted May 20, 2013 Share Posted May 20, 2013 All that would be great, but I'm not predicting either willl happen. PTR Mods- has someone hacked PTR's account? I was under the impression he was a pollyanna obsessed with attacking the "realistic" posters! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted May 20, 2013 Share Posted May 20, 2013 Bryd should have been rookie of the year over that cheating, female breasted Cushing. 9 INTs is so rare. . Weren't 6 of them off of sanchez? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swnybillsfan Posted May 20, 2013 Share Posted May 20, 2013 He had 1,700+ total yards last year with 8 TD's to boot. Averaged 6.0 YPC and 10.7 YPR. If the team doesn't find a way to get him more, they're idiots. Fred Jackson should be the more limited of the two, considering his significant injury risk. 75-25 is what I would think it should look like. Personally, I would like to see if Spiller can handle 250 carries and 75 receptions. Yet to be seen. absolutely agree that CJ needs as many touches as he can handle, and with the addition of some of the weapons around him, he may be even more dangerous this year. but, as good as he is, and as good as he could be, i think freddy is still very important to this team. his value to the locker room should not be taken lightly, his role as a mentor to the youngsters, and just the drive and work ethic he has shown throughout his carreer. he may be approaching the end of his carreer, but i believe he still has tremendous value as a player on this team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Hammersticks Posted May 21, 2013 Share Posted May 21, 2013 absolutely agree that CJ needs as many touches as he can handle, and with the addition of some of the weapons around him, he may be even more dangerous this year. but, as good as he is, and as good as he could be, i think freddy is still very important to this team. his value to the locker room should not be taken lightly, his role as a mentor to the youngsters, and just the drive and work ethic he has shown throughout his carreer. he may be approaching the end of his carreer, but i believe he still has tremendous value as a player on this team. Agreed about Freddy. I think many Bills fans have dismissed him after last season, however, I still think he has a lot to offer this offense. I don't buy into that "well he's a running back in his 30's so he must be washed-up" mentality. CJ has earned the lions share of the carries, but Freddy can still make a significant inpact with 10 touches per game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajzepp Posted May 21, 2013 Share Posted May 21, 2013 Agreed about Freddy. I think many Bills fans have dismissed him after last season, however, I still think he has a lot to offer this offense. I don't buy into that "well he's a running back in his 30's so he must be washed-up" mentality. CJ has earned the lions share of the carries, but Freddy can still make a significant inpact with 10 touches per game. I love Freddy, but if he keeps fumbling the ball then he needs to go. Injuries happen and you can't hold that against the guy, but the fumbling is another issue. Especially if we start EJ, we can't have a RB who turns the ball over like that. CJ is going to have a huge year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hondo in seattle Posted May 21, 2013 Share Posted May 21, 2013 There's 1 chance in 32 of the OROY being a Bill. There's 1 chance in 32 of the DROY being a Bill. So there's 1 chance in 1,024 of both the OROY and DROY being Bills. It would be awesome if it happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leelee Phoenix Posted May 21, 2013 Share Posted May 21, 2013 The odds are a lot better than that if you consider opportunity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JESSEFEFFER Posted May 21, 2013 Share Posted May 21, 2013 There's 1 chance in 32 of the OROY being a Bill. There's 1 chance in 32 of the DROY being a Bill. So there's 1 chance in 1,024 of both the OROY and DROY being Bills. It would be awesome if it happened. Haslett and Conlan were the two Bills defenders to win the AP award. Alonso looks to be cut from the same cloth as a 3 down defender that is likely to make a lot of tackles as a rookie starter. LBs and DEs are the favored choices over DTs and DBs and I'd put the probability at ~ 1/12. QBs and WRs seem more likely to win the award in today's NFL and there really aren't that many RB candidates this year anyways. There are more RB by committee approaches now , especially for rookies. O-line has never won the AP award and when you consider that the winners are usually top of the draft talents (makes sense--they are more talented and more likely to play from day 1) the field of potential winners is much smaller. My guess is that Manuel and Woods give the Bills 2 chances out of 16 or so. Without a calculator, that gives the Bills an ~ 20% chance to win one award and ~1% chance to win both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jauronimo Posted May 21, 2013 Share Posted May 21, 2013 (edited) There's 1 chance in 32 of the OROY being a Bill. There's 1 chance in 32 of the DROY being a Bill. So there's 1 chance in 1,024 of both the OROY and DROY being Bills. It would be awesome if it happened. Unless something has changed and every team has one offensive and one defensive rookie and these honors are chosen by drawing names from a hat at random with equal weighting, then thats not even remotely reflective of the odds of such an occurrence. Edited May 21, 2013 by Jauronimo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EasternOHBillsFan Posted May 21, 2013 Share Posted May 21, 2013 (edited) There's 1 chance in 32 of the OROY being a Bill. There's 1 chance in 32 of the DROY being a Bill. So there's 1 chance in 1,024 of both the OROY and DROY being Bills. It would be awesome if it happened. The Bills haven't had a Rookie of the Year since 1987 with Conlan (DROY) and 1970 with Shaw (OROY)... and yet I don't care because the pre-preseason is always exciting when new blood arrives! Edited May 21, 2013 by BmoreBills Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auburnbillsbacker Posted May 21, 2013 Share Posted May 21, 2013 The defensive rookie of the year is often a middle linebacker because the accumulate a lot of tackles. The offensive rookie of the year is a RB more often than not. Since there were no RBs selected in round and the bills will have a rookie starting at ILB it is not impossible for a bills to win rookie of the year. EJ would need to start early obviously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hondo in seattle Posted May 21, 2013 Share Posted May 21, 2013 Unless something has changed and every team has one offensive and one defensive rookie and these honors are chosen by drawing names from a hat at random with equal weighting, then thats not even remotely reflective of the odds of such an occurrence. You are right, of course. So I'll let you figure out a way of calculating the odds that's more precise and not (1) subjective, or (2) a royal pain in the ass. My point was only that the odds were long. But what a great year for the Bills if we had either ROY. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keukasmallies Posted May 21, 2013 Share Posted May 21, 2013 Or Buffalo could very well go 5 - 11 next season; given past experience that's a much safer bet than two RsOY. Don't you think that somewhere someone else is posting that their team has a good chance of having two RsOY? Do you (OP) exhibit this rabid optimism in other aspects of your life...do you have other aspects of your life? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leelee Phoenix Posted May 21, 2013 Share Posted May 21, 2013 Don't you think that somewhere someone else is posting that their team has a good chance of having two RsOY? The Rams, Packers and Steelers, maybe. That's about it. The hate on this topic is sad. So many people not even thinking about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max997 Posted May 21, 2013 Share Posted May 21, 2013 I get the optimism but come on, lets try and be a little realistic here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nukethis Posted May 21, 2013 Share Posted May 21, 2013 This is just a ridiculous stretch to ASSume that the other 31 teams did not also draft possible DROY and OROY candidates. Homer much ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EasternOHBillsFan Posted May 21, 2013 Share Posted May 21, 2013 This is just a ridiculous stretch to ASSume that the other 31 teams did not also draft possible DROY and OROY candidates. Homer much ? Why are you here again then? To not root for the possibility of an OROY or a DROY is not being a Bills fan, that's for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luxy312 Posted May 21, 2013 Share Posted May 21, 2013 absolutely agree that CJ needs as many touches as he can handle, and with the addition of some of the weapons around him, he may be even more dangerous this year. but, as good as he is, and as good as he could be, i think freddy is still very important to this team. his value to the locker room should not be taken lightly, his role as a mentor to the youngsters, and just the drive and work ethic he has shown throughout his carreer. he may be approaching the end of his carreer, but i believe he still has tremendous value as a player on this team. Agreed about Freddy. I think many Bills fans have dismissed him after last season, however, I still think he has a lot to offer this offense. I don't buy into that "well he's a running back in his 30's so he must be washed-up" mentality. CJ has earned the lions share of the carries, but Freddy can still make a significant inpact with 10 touches per game. I don't disagree at all that Freddy still has value. I just think when you have a RB averaging 5.4 ypc and another averaging 4.5, that the first guy should be on the field more. Fred still has plenty of utility on this team and should be utilized less so that we finally can keep him healthy for an entire season. I don't think he's approaching the end of his career either. While he is older, he has a lot less game mileage on him than most RB's his age. To the second point, I'm not dismissing him at all. He's been productive for this team and can be used in both the running and passing game. People forget that before his injury last season, he was leading the league in total YPG for a RB. Still, Spiller is something really special. His dynamic running style reminds me a bit of Priest Holmes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swnybillsfan Posted May 21, 2013 Share Posted May 21, 2013 I don't disagree at all that Freddy still has value. I just think when you have a RB averaging 5.4 ypc and another averaging 4.5, that the first guy should be on the field more. Fred still has plenty of utility on this team and should be utilized less so that we finally can keep him healthy for an entire season. I don't think he's approaching the end of his career either. While he is older, he has a lot less game mileage on him than most RB's his age. To the second point, I'm not dismissing him at all. He's been productive for this team and can be used in both the running and passing game. People forget that before his injury last season, he was leading the league in total YPG for a RB. Still, Spiller is something really special. His dynamic running style reminds me a bit of Priest Holmes. completely true. CJ needs to get the majority of the rb touches because of the shiftiness and breakaway speed. he really could be a superstar in this league. and freddy should get his as well, there should be plenty to go around. spiller has the speed and the moves, freddy has that grit and veteran savvy. both can break runs in their own way and both are very good out of the backfield as receiving options. I love Freddy, but if he keeps fumbling the ball then he needs to go. Injuries happen and you can't hold that against the guy, but the fumbling is another issue. Especially if we start EJ, we can't have a RB who turns the ball over like that. CJ is going to have a huge year. i really think that the majority of freddy's fumbles last year came on the 5th, 6th, and 7th efforts. he was really trying to do to much. i admire and respect him trying to do everything in his power to get the win, but there comes a time when you have to just go down. much like a qb holding the ball to long or forcing the throw when he feels like he has to take it all on himself. there is a time and a place, but you really have to pick your spots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brucethomas34 Posted May 21, 2013 Share Posted May 21, 2013 Anything is possible, highly unlikely however due to the fact that EJ is raw and KIKO is a 2nd round line backer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted May 21, 2013 Share Posted May 21, 2013 Pettine was effusive in his praise of Kiko today. He said that the staff at Oregon made sure that Kiko was "pro ready." Looks like there's no doubt that he's gonna be the opening day MLB/ILB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swnybillsfan Posted May 21, 2013 Share Posted May 21, 2013 Pettine was effusive in his praise of Kiko today. He said that the staff at Oregon made sure that Kiko was "pro ready." Looks like there's no doubt that he's gonna be the opening day MLB/ILB. he was very diplomatic in saying that nothing was set in stone and that it was only running around in shorts, but yes, he did seem to be very happy with his young linebacker thus far. Anything is possible, highly unlikely however due to the fact that EJ is raw and KIKO is a 2nd round line backer. raw does indicate that there is ability there, and that if refined could develop into something great. and second round is not exactly an udfa that you take a flier on. do i expect these two to run away with rookie of the year honors, no. but i do think we will see some very nice things out of both. and hey, you never know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted May 22, 2013 Author Share Posted May 22, 2013 (edited) Or Buffalo could very well go 5 - 11 next season; given past experience that's a much safer bet than two RsOY. Don't you think that somewhere someone else is posting that their team has a good chance of having two RsOY? Do you (OP) exhibit this rabid optimism in other aspects of your life...do you have other aspects of your life? LOL...first off, fully expected a bunch of negative nancies who wouldnt get past the actual topic title and actually look at the situation objectively. But your comments are unnecessary Edited May 22, 2013 by Alphadawg7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kemp Posted May 22, 2013 Share Posted May 22, 2013 This notion of two rookies of the year reminds me of the fans here last year before the season telling me that the Bills will have one of the top D's in the league and that they might have the best pass rush in the league. Fans are funny people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted May 22, 2013 Author Share Posted May 22, 2013 (edited) I get the optimism but come on, lets try and be a little realistic here Please keep in mind, I did NOT say we will field both, I said it was possible more so than usual given the opportunity of playing time here come week 1 of highly drafted and talented rookies at high profile skill positions here. The negative nancies about blew their mind reading it, way too much optimism for some. The difference is, my OP was not about optimism, but about the reality of the situation that we have 1 for sure, and maybe 2 high profile rookies who could contirbute a ton on offense, while the draft didnt have many other offensive players expected to do so. And that we also likely have a rookie MLB who will be put in positions to make a lot of plays and MLB's have an advantage for DROY votes because they can amass a lot of stats, especially on a team like this with a lot of talent on the front line. Edited May 22, 2013 by Alphadawg7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kemp Posted May 22, 2013 Share Posted May 22, 2013 If Manuel starts week 1, he's the frontrunner for OROY. Woods also has a good chance. This is a very weak year for OROY candidates, no other QBs starting most of the season probably. Not many RBs or WRs appear to be in great situations either. Alonso has a good shot as well, since DROY is highly slanted towards LBs who gets lots of tackles, and bad teams get the most tackles against the run. Like Kuechly last year, who was pretty bad most of the year, but led the league in tackles. However, there's Te'o, and if he gets 100 tackles, the media is riding that train. I'll bite. What makes Manuel the frontrunner for ROY just because he starts? I like comic relief threads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted May 22, 2013 Author Share Posted May 22, 2013 (edited) This notion of two rookies of the year reminds me of the fans here last year before the season telling me that the Bills will have one of the top D's in the league and that they might have the best pass rush in the league. Fans are funny people. And last year is relevant to this year how? Lets see...new QB, new WR's, new LB's, new HC, new OC, new DC, new positional coaches, new FO, new GM... Hmmmmmm...yeah, last year is exactly like this year. I'll bite. What makes Manuel the frontrunner for ROY just because he starts? I like comic relief threads. Is that a real question? I guess you are not one of the people who actually liked the Manuel pick. First off, rookie QB's who have some measure of success have a leg up in ROY voting. Secondly, most here (apparently not you) believe in Manuel being a potential franchise QB and a guy who could lead this team. Thirdly, everything coming out from the Bills suggests that EJ is coming along quickly increasing his chances of winning the job (doesn't mean he will, but so far all the reports have been very positive on both him and the new WR's). So, there is a lot of reason to think EJ could very well be in the running if he starts early, especially given there are not a lot of other rookie QB's expected to contribute much this year outside of maybe Geno (who I think struggles on that bad team even if he does, but thats just my personal opinion, and I am not convinced he will start the season as their QB anyway) . Edited May 22, 2013 by Alphadawg7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted May 22, 2013 Share Posted May 22, 2013 Well, mathematically-speaking and assuming all things being equal, there is a 0.1% chance of that happening. Smart money at Vegas is on this prediction not paying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kemp Posted May 22, 2013 Share Posted May 22, 2013 (edited) And last year is relevant to this year how? Lets see...new QB, new WR's, new LB's, new HC, new OC, new DC, new positional coaches, new FO, new GM... Hmmmmmm...yeah, last year is exactly like this year. LMAO Is that a real question? I guess you are not one of the people who actually liked the Manuel pick. First off, rookie QB's who have some measure of success have a leg up in ROY voting. Secondly, most here (apparently not you) believe in Manuel being a potential franchise QB and a guy who could lead this team. Thirdly, everything coming out from the Bills suggests that EJ is coming along quickly increasing his chances of winning the job (doesn't mean he will, but so far all the reports have been very positive on both him and the new WR's). So, there is a lot of reason to think EJ could very well be in the running if he starts early, especially given there are not a lot of other rookie QB's expected to contribute much this year outside of maybe Geno (who I think struggles on that bad team even if he does, but thats just my personal opinion, and I am not convinced he will start the season as their QB anyway) . Excellent logical point. This year isn't last year so the Bills have a chance of winning two ROY awards. Brilliant. My point stands. Making possible predictions of greatness in May are beyond absurd. Tells us all the last time you heard negatives about rookies on any team in May. Edited May 22, 2013 by Kemp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted May 22, 2013 Author Share Posted May 22, 2013 (edited) Anything is possible, highly unlikely however due to the fact that EJ is raw and KIKO is a 2nd round line backer. Correction, Kiko is a FIRST round talent LB who fell because he had early college off field issues. Just about every scout or draft pundit I have seen seems to believe he would have been a likely first round prospect if it was not for that. Just because many of you had not heard of him before the draft because all the talk were about other guys, does not mean he can't play. I watched Kiko play a ton and he is really talented prospect and could be a top LB for us for a long time. Do not sleep on this kid...hes gonna turn some heads. FWIW - I said the same thing about Byrd when people did not know who he was...watched him play a lot in college and loved that pick too. Look the threads up, even though they announced the Bills drafted a CB in Byrd, I was all over the boards saying we just drafted the best FS prospect in the draft and the kid was a play maker and ball hawk. I know Oregon football, and this kid Kiko out shined Dion (the #3 pick in the draft) a lot when on the field together. Edited May 22, 2013 by Alphadawg7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swnybillsfan Posted May 22, 2013 Share Posted May 22, 2013 I'll bite. What makes Manuel the frontrunner for ROY just because he starts? I like comic relief threads. just taking a stab...because he has apparent physical ability, a noted work ethic, high character, intelligence, desire, and most importantly, he is OUR qb. if this team has even modest success this year and he is a part of it, then the national media will be giving him credit he deserves and probably some he doesn't. it will be a story, and we know how the talking heads love a story. Well, mathematically-speaking and assuming all things being equal, there is a 0.1% chance of that happening. Smart money at Vegas is on this prediction not paying. so you're saying there's a chance! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted May 22, 2013 Author Share Posted May 22, 2013 Excellent logical point. This year isn't last year so the Bills have a chance of winning two ROY awards. Brilliant. My point stands. Making possible predictions of greatness in May are beyond absurd. Actually, everything about my post was logical, and there has not been a single word of logic in any of yours...which is fine...to each their own. Amazing how starting a positive thread about the potential of our young guys brings out so much hate among the fan base. Keep the narrow minded, everything sucks mindset if it works for you...let me know how that turns out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted May 22, 2013 Share Posted May 22, 2013 so you're saying there's a chance! I did round up. But I didn't factor in the power of wishful thinking. So, on balance, yeah, there is a chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaybee Posted May 22, 2013 Share Posted May 22, 2013 (edited) Actually, everything about my post was logical, and there has not been a single word of logic in any of yours...which is fine...to each their own. Amazing how starting a positive thread about the potential of our young guys brings out so much hate among the fan base. Keep the narrow minded, everything sucks mindset if it works for you...let me know how that turns out. Well, I for one like positive threads. And...we may well have a few guys in the running for ROY awards. That'd suit me just fine. BUT...like I said earlier I'd be ecstatic if Doug won coach of the year ! BECAUSE...That would probably mean we had a winning record and slid into the playoffs. How cool would that be ? !!! Edited May 22, 2013 by jaybee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bladiebla Posted May 22, 2013 Share Posted May 22, 2013 this kid Kiko out shined Dion (the #3 pick in the draft) a lot when on the field together. One of the Bills scouts put itas follows: "I was sent to watch Jordan but my eyes kept being pulled towards Alonso, he was actually making the plays Jordan was advertised as making". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keukasmallies Posted May 22, 2013 Share Posted May 22, 2013 And last year is relevant to this year how? Lets see...new QB, new WR's, new LB's, new HC, new OC, new DC, new positional coaches, new FO, new GM... Hmmmmmm...yeah, last year is exactly like this year. The best predictor of tomorrow is yesterday.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tennesseeboy Posted May 22, 2013 Share Posted May 22, 2013 yeah yaah yeah...offensive AND defensive rookie of the year. I don't see any reason for either of the rookie of the year awards to go to us, at least not until the guys make the team, break into the starting lineup and actually play in a few games. I think there are 30 some other teams who could make the same projection right about now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted May 22, 2013 Author Share Posted May 22, 2013 yeah yaah yeah...offensive AND defensive rookie of the year. I don't see any reason for either of the rookie of the year awards to go to us, at least not until the guys make the team, break into the starting lineup and actually play in a few games. I think there are 30 some other teams who could make the same projection right about now. So a thread discussing the possibility of our young players and potential success is somehow annoying to you. Got it. Thanks for playing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luxy312 Posted May 22, 2013 Share Posted May 22, 2013 First off, rookie QB's who have some measure of success have a leg up in ROY voting. The phenomena of rookie QB's having some measure of success isn't what you think. Recent ROY winners have had pretty great rookie seasons and not just "some measure of success". Let's look at actual history. 46 offensive rookies of the year since 1967. QB's - 7 WR's -8 RB's - 31 84.78% of the time, it hasn't been a QB. So much for the "leg up" theory. That's pretty much shot to hell by any measure of statistic that you look at. Recent QB's in Griffin, Newton, and Bradford had stellar rookie seasons that clearly stood out from any rookie WR's or RB's. There's NOTHING that you can really say that makes your statement true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted May 22, 2013 Author Share Posted May 22, 2013 (edited) The phenomena of rookie QB's having some measure of success isn't what you think. Recent ROY winners have had pretty great rookie seasons and not just "some measure of success". Let's look at actual history. 46 offensive rookies of the year since 1967. QB's - 7 WR's -8 RB's - 31 84.78% of the time, it hasn't been a QB. So much for the "leg up" theory. That's pretty much shot to hell by any measure of statistic that you look at. Recent QB's in Griffin, Newton, and Bradford had stellar rookie seasons that clearly stood out from any rookie WR's or RB's. There's NOTHING that you can really say that makes your statement true. Actually your stat is inherently wrong. You are using stats from eras where QBs didn't play mostly at all their rookie years. In today's era that is substantially different as rookie QBs are getting opportunities to play early and having success doing so. You stat is like averaging the cost of buying a house since 1950 and saying that's the average house price today which would be ridiculously inaccurate. Anyone who thinks a rookie QB having success in today's NFL doesn't have an advantage in the voting doesn't watch the NFL. It's the most high profile, most watched, most difficult, and most important single position in all of team sports. Hers the funniest part about the stats you just listed: RBs have won most often in history...only because WRs and QBs in years past didn't contribute much as rookies. But QB and WR are the ones who have won when a RB did not. This was said to have been the worst draft for RBs in a decade too leaving QB and WR as a more likely winner this year, which is what I wrote in my OP as to one of the main reasons I think we have a shot at it as we have one of the two most likely rookie QBs to play and probably the most likely rookie WR to both play and contribute this year. Damn you logic lol Edited May 22, 2013 by Alphadawg7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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