John from Riverside Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 When I go back to my film of last year I see a TJ Graham open A LOT deep......with a QB who simply couldnt get it there Yes....TJ dropped a lot of balls But the question still remains......in Kevin Kolb we appear to have a QB with an arm.......do we know have the ability to get TJ Graham the ball for however many games Kolb stays healthy (provided he starts) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimer1960 Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 I think the answer is yes, provided that the OL holds up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big C Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 I think so too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 When I go back to my film of last year I see a TJ Graham open A LOT deep......with a QB who simply couldnt get it there Yes....TJ dropped a lot of balls But the question still remains......in Kevin Kolb we appear to have a QB with an arm.......do we know have the ability to get TJ Graham the ball for however many games Kolb stays healthy (provided he starts) The arm seems to be a question mark. Old scouting evals said "good not great arm". People who seem to have watched him lately say "doesn't throw deep" but that might be a function of OL porosity, hard to throw completions when you're sitting on your a** before the guy gets deep. We'll see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 He was sacked alot in Philly/ alot. I am taking a guess but i have hope he will open up the field for us as compared to last years quarterback. Hopefully with a running game and an offensive line(?) in front of him he will make use of the opportunity. An improvement over Fitz and a good fit for Hackett/Marrone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 Kolb is pretty good throwing on the run, and working a hurry up offense. That is why we signed him, IMO. He has decent arm strength, probably slightly better than Fitz, whose problem on the deep ball was 10x more an accuracy issue than an arm strength issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 Kolb is pretty good throwing on the run, and working a hurry up offense. That is why we signed him, IMO. He has decent arm strength, probably slightly better than Fitz, whose problem on the deep ball was 10x more an accuracy issue than an arm strength issue. is that yes he can hit TJ deep on the run or a maybe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 is that yes he can hit TJ deep on the run or a maybe? It's a maybe. I think they only signed him for the ability to run and throw on the run and throw short and intermediate passes, not because he can hit TJ deep, has a huge arm or is accurate on the deep ball. I think he's probably better than Fitz at it though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leelee Phoenix Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 But, now teams will bother to cover TJ deep since the ball has more than a 10% chance of getting there. If Graham is starting WR2 next year, I'll cry. He suuuuuuuuucked last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanker Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 (edited) KK Team Year Games Sacked Philly 2008 6 0 Philly 2009 5 3 Philly 2010 7 15 AZ 2011 9 30 AZ 2012 5 27 RF Team Year Games Sacked Cinci 2008 13 38 Bills 2009 10 21 Bills 2010 13 24 Bills 2011 16 22 Bills 2012 15 30 Kolb was sacked more in his 14 games for Arizona: 57, than Fitz was sacked in his last 31 games with Buffalo: 52 Fitz was sacked more at Cinci in 13 games than he ever was as a Bill. And incidentally, those were the only games he saw action in at Cinci. There is something to be said for OLine play... and scheme. Edited March 31, 2013 by Nanker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 KK Team Year Games Sacked Philly 2008 6 0 Philly 2009 5 3 Philly 2010 7 15 AZ 2011 9 30 AZ 2012 5 27 RF Team Year Games Sacked Cinci 2008 13 38 Bills 2009 10 21 Bills 2010 13 24 Bills 2011 16 22 Bills 2012 15 30 Kolb was sacked more in his 14 games for Arizona: 57, than Fitz was sacked in his last 31 games with Buffalo: 52 Fitz was sacked more at Cinci in 13 games than he ever was as a Bill. And incidentally, those were the only games he saw action in at Cinci. There is something to be said for OLine play... and scheme. In fairness to the objective discussion, there's also something to be said for a quarterback who holds the ball too long versus a quarterback who gets the ball out on time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 In fairness to the objective discussion, there's also something to be said for a quarterback who holds the ball too long versus a quarterback who gets the ball out on time. But how do you account for a 5-6% sack rate on the Philly offense, and then immediately a 12-13% sack rate on the Cards? The Cards really put him in a bad offense for his skills. He's a quick decision WCO kind of guy. http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/K/KolbKe00.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leelee Phoenix Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 But how do you account for a 5-6% sack rate on the Philly offense, and then immediately a 12-13% sack rate on the Cards? The Cards really put him in a bad offense for his skills. He's a quick decision WCO kind of guy. http://www.pro-footb.../K/KolbKe00.htm It's mostly due to Reid's quick passing offense. Michael Vick's sack rate dropped significantly in PHI, too. Even after his one good season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 It's mostly due to Reid's quick passing offense. Michael Vick's sack rate dropped significantly in PHI, too. Even after his one good season. Right. Which is the kind of offense the Bills are going to run. So Kolb is highly likely to get sacked more at the Philly rate than the Cardinal rate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leelee Phoenix Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 Maybe. But, I'm not going to assume that Syracuse v2 has the offensive mind of Andy Reid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhitewalkerInPhilly Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 KK Team Year Games Sacked Philly 2008 6 0 Philly 2009 5 3 Philly 2010 7 15 AZ 2011 9 30 AZ 2012 5 27 RF Team Year Games Sacked Cinci 2008 13 38 Bills 2009 10 21 Bills 2010 13 24 Bills 2011 16 22 Bills 2012 15 30 Kolb was sacked more in his 14 games for Arizona: 57, than Fitz was sacked in his last 31 games with Buffalo: 52 Fitz was sacked more at Cinci in 13 games than he ever was as a Bill. And incidentally, those were the only games he saw action in at Cinci. There is something to be said for OLine play... and scheme. Those are an insane number of sacks for such a short period of time. I particular, right around the time he got injured he took 9 sacks in the game before us, and then 6 against the Bills where he got knocked out for the season. 27 sacks in 6 games is INSANE. In the end...maybe he can be a little better at getting the ball to TJ, but TJ is going to have to get MUCH better at route running. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#34fan Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 Deep Passes to TJ? EFF THAT. Number one, TJ couldn't catch crabs in a whorehouse. Number two, eficency is the path I'd choose for Kolb... Face it, the guy is never going to be a dynamic passer like Flacco, both Mannings, or Brady. -However, IF he's willing to give up on that dream, we might just be able to re-make him in the image of Trent Dilfer. Which would be good enough for me. Hand it off to Jamal Lewis, and don't turn it over! -I think it's the best game plan you can hope for with a new coaching staff, and a SHMUCK GM! Bargain Basement Buddy just needs to make a few more goofy decisions before we can turn this thing 180! -I grow more, and more optimistic with each WTF move by OBD.. PLAYOFFS BABY!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobobonators Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 (edited) When I go back to my film of last year I see a TJ Graham open A LOT deep......with a QB who simply couldnt get it there Yes....TJ dropped a lot of balls But the question still remains......in Kevin Kolb we appear to have a QB with an arm.......do we know have the ability to get TJ Graham the ball for however many games Kolb stays healthy (provided he starts) Kolb's last 22 games (3 seasons): 59.3 comp. %; 4,321yds (6.81avg); 24TD; 18INT; 14 fumbles; QBR: 36.0 (AVG) Fitz last season (16 games): 60.6 comp. %; 3,400yds (6.73avg); 24TD; 16INT; 8 fumbles QBR: 45.8 (his lowest for us out of the 3 years as f/t starter) Kolb put up pretty pedestrian #'s considering he was throwing to some of the better WR's in the game in Philly and Arizona. But ya, we got TJ Graham now who was obviously handicapped by Fitz ! LMFAO. Take your blinders off man. In fairness to the objective discussion, there's also something to be said for a quarterback who holds the ball too long versus a quarterback who gets the ball out on time. It's clearly Fitz's fault he wasn't sacked enough - the bastard got rid of the ball too soon. Poor Kolb however, his O-lines always blew nuts. His ****ty receivers - Fitzgerald, Maclin, DJax, Cooper, etc just couldn't get open quickly enough for Kolb. Kolb should be worlds better now that he has TJ Graham to throw to. Edited March 31, 2013 by bobobonators Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTO Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 (edited) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IqF8zPicVwo I love this signing! This signing not only allows a QB competition in Buffalo, but also allows flexibility in terms of how to approach the draft. A) They can draft the best WR in the draft at 8, Cordarrelle Patterson, and then their QB in the 2nd, considering that the QB that they have their sights on is drafted within the top 7. Conversely, if their QB is available at pick 8, then they can get their WR/TE in the 2nd. As per Kevin Kolb, I have no doubt that he will succeed if he were to start. He will succeed behind a good O-Line and that will instill better foot work, pocket presence, sight of his targets and awareness of defenses forming as well as CONFIDENCE. He wont have the thought of getting knocked down on every snap. I have attached a quick clip of the 2012 highlights for Kevin Kolb. From it I have gathered that he is a good QB, above average at best, but light years better than Fitz in my opinion. By the way, take a look at how mobile he is behind a bad Arizona O-Line. Also, take a look at the pretty deep spiraling throws. When he goes deep he doesn't look like he's straining to get it down field. Lets GO BUFFALO! Edited March 31, 2013 by JTO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTO Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 Here's Cordarrelle Patterson if we go WR in the 1st. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted March 31, 2013 Author Share Posted March 31, 2013 Kolb's last 22 games (3 seasons): 59.3 comp. %; 4,321yds (6.81avg); 24TD; 18INT; 14 fumbles; QBR: 36.0 (AVG) Fitz last season (16 games): 60.6 comp. %; 3,400yds (6.73avg); 24TD; 16INT; 8 fumbles QBR: 45.8 (his lowest for us out of the 3 years as f/t starter) Kolb put up pretty pedestrian #'s considering he was throwing to some of the better WR's in the game in Philly and Arizona. But ya, we got TJ Graham now who was obviously handicapped by Fitz ! LMFAO. Take your blinders off man. It's clearly Fitz's fault he wasn't sacked enough - the bastard got rid of the ball too soon. Poor Kolb however, his O-lines always blew nuts. His ****ty receivers - Fitzgerald, Maclin, DJax, Cooper, etc just couldn't get open quickly enough for Kolb. Kolb should be worlds better now that he has TJ Graham to throw to. Im not making a statement Bob Im asking a question...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincec Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 Maybe. But, I'm not going to assume that Syracuse v2 has the offensive mind of Andy Reid. This is a concern as well. If Wisenhunt and Reid couldn't make Kolb work why should we believe that Marrone can? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 This is a concern as well. If Wisenhunt and Reid couldn't make Kolb work why should we believe that Marrone can? Reid did. They just happened to have Vick and a $100 mil contract and able to get a starting CB and a #2 pick for Kolb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted April 1, 2013 Share Posted April 1, 2013 But how do you account for a 5-6% sack rate on the Philly offense, and then immediately a 12-13% sack rate on the Cards? The Cards really put him in a bad offense for his skills. He's a quick decision WCO kind of guy. http://www.pro-footb.../K/KolbKe00.htm As Caplan and others have surmised, Kolb will probably be a better fit in Marrone's offense than he was in Whisenhunt's and I said that in a different thread. I believe he'll have a better chance to succeed in Buffalo both because of scheme and because of talent. But one still has to acknowledge concern for the rate at which he was sacked in Arizona and his possible culpability in that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jumbalaya Posted April 1, 2013 Share Posted April 1, 2013 The sacks or lack there of is it becaise of better oline play or a qb that would not get rid of it. Fitz got rid of it and threw INTs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbosrrgood Posted April 1, 2013 Share Posted April 1, 2013 Wait, so Kolb struggled to get LARRY FITZGERALD the ball, but we think he's going to get the amazing TJ Graham the ball? As much as people want to blame Fitz for everything, there were a lot of balls thrown to TJ last year both deep and short that he SHOULD have caught. Now I know it was only his first year, but he really struggled with the basics of catching for the ball and going up for the ball. Of particular concern was his lack of physical ability to beat out a WR, and a McKelvin like deficiency in "going up and getting it"...Usually those are instinctual things that can't be taught or coached. I'm less worried about who's throwing to TJ, than I am about TJ actually being able to catch the balls that are thrown to him. Of equal or more importance, Kolb is not the automatic unquestioned starter. You could argue that TJax has been the more successful starter, and has the most upside (both were 2nd round picks). I expect there to be a competition, and there is likely to be a rookie in the mix as well. Kolb is a stop gap to get us to a REAL QB (hopefully), personally I'm not very excited about him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nucci Posted April 1, 2013 Share Posted April 1, 2013 Larry Fitzgerald had his best games when Kolb played. Not sure if that means anything but....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbosrrgood Posted April 1, 2013 Share Posted April 1, 2013 (edited) The sacks or lack there of is it becaise of better oline play or a qb that would not get rid of it. Fitz got rid of it and threw INTs. A combination of both. If you watch Kolb, he clearly hold's onto the ball too long...and Fitz is one of the quickest to get rid of it...I think the Bills O-line was better than AZ's, although they had their own struggles in pass protection (RT). Edited April 1, 2013 by Turbosrrgood Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkington Posted April 1, 2013 Share Posted April 1, 2013 I think the answer is yes, provided that the OL holds up. It won't. It was already pretty bad at pass protection past a couple seconds, it got worse by letting Levitre go. We're stuck with quick throws, for the most part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbosrrgood Posted April 1, 2013 Share Posted April 1, 2013 As Caplan and others have surmised, Kolb will probably be a better fit in Marrone's offense than he was in Whisenhunt's and I said that in a different thread. I believe he'll have a better chance to succeed in Buffalo both because of scheme and because of talent. But one still has to acknowledge concern for the rate at which he was sacked in Arizona and his possible culpability in that. Obviously Whisenhunt's scheme was awful, and didn't work for AZ, so I'll give Marrone the benefit of the doubt and say he should have a better scheme. I think it's a bit optimistic to say we have more talent though. We still have 2 holes on the o-line (LG, RT) and only 1 legitimate WR (good, but not as good as Fitzgerald), and no legitimate healthy TE's. AZ's RB's were actually pretty good when healthy, but we do probably have the edge there. The cupboard is still pretty bare here at the moment though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brainiac21 Posted April 1, 2013 Share Posted April 1, 2013 my 2 cents, or 3 or 4... atm, our o-line is not very good either, so he better get rid of it quick or he'll be sacked, and hurt, and out, like he has been the last 3 years. Fitz got rid of the ball quick and still took some hits. and now they are without their best player, esp. in pass protection. i wouldn't count on a lot of deep passes, even if his arm is marginally better than Fitz's. also, Philly didn't get rid of Kolb because of Vick's 100 million dollar deal, they gave him that after struggled and got knocked out of his starting job. then they traded.. then eventually gave Vick the money later. i don't mind this signing, as it compares to what Seattle did last year. i'm thinking it means they plan to draft someone who isn't likely to start right away. Perhaps a high-upside guy like EJ Manuel, who has the tools but needs work. also hoping maybe just having another recognizable QB name will help if they are targeting another FA... maybe Brandon Moore or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
machine gun kelly Posted April 1, 2013 Share Posted April 1, 2013 Brainiac is right. EJ Manuel has the most upside with a pistol offense and having plyed several years in a pro style offense. With Spiller, it should work well. Kolb can make much better throws deep to WR than Fitz. fitz had guys wide open so many times at 15+ yds and couldn't do it with accuracy. Pick up Manuel at 8 or take your chances he's still there in the second round. Bottom line is we rebuilding AGAIN! If I were Ralph, I'd say what the hell is the front office doing? But after 13 years, who knows. This was our biggest problem. We should have given control to Polian years ago and we would have continued to compete. Ralph blew it and he's been payign for it for almost two decades. And so have we! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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