Buffalo Bills Regionalization

[Trader]

I know this is a difficult subject I have been a Bills fan as long as there was an AFC. Looking at the demographics of Western New York I do not believe the franchise is viable post Ralph Wilson without successful regionalization into the Toronto market. The Bills will need to sell more tickets at higher prices to stay here.

 

What name and or other tactics would you give to a team that would be inclusive to the Ontario market and not lose the Rochester and Syracuse markets? I would like to see a Shoulder patch on a new uniform or a helmet decal that uses the crossed U.S. and Canadian Flags similar to the one we use on youth hockey garb. Using the word "Niagara" certainly is a possiblity the "Niagara Power"

is a start but I would like to see some other ideas especially from Canadians who will need to embrace this team if it is to stay here.

 

I know this is heresy to many fans who are attached to the Bills as am I and I certainly understand your issues with it but I do not think the status quo is really an option post Ralph.

[NoSaint]

It's spelled "traitor"

[Optometric Insight]

If you don't get involved over there, you don't have to move there. But unfortunately, we got involved over there so here's what I say to that:

Canadians. Giving us Beiber and saying "A" at the end of every sentence. Just because it's the first letter of the alphabet doesn't mean that you have to end every sentence with it!

 

And then you guys have the balls to steal our football!?!?! you guys, you.

[SageAgainstTheMachine]

I personally wouldn't stop rooting for the Bills in such a case, especially if it's just the name that's changing. What's in a name? I haven't actually lived there for 6 years and my interest hasn't exactly waned.

 

A relocation to Toronto or beyond, though, and I might have to shift the focus of my masochism to Cleveland.

 

EDIT: I still don't think it's going to happen, though. I've yet to see something more substantial than "Based on my limited understanding of the markets involved, it seems sorta logical."

Edited July 13, 2012 by SageAgainstTheMachine

[Charles Romes]

Penn State fans.

[BillnutinHouston]

Not regionalizing is not an option for this franchise. Because of Buffalo's small size, its version of regionalizing into Canada is pretty much equivalent to other NFL cities just now starting to market to their own northwest suburbs.

 

The "Buffalo Bills" is a 50+ year, storied, iconic brand name, steeped in history and tradition. You don't casually mess with that unless/until your fanbase has already gone 60-70% Canadian as a result of other, organic means. I don't think you rebrand in an effort to gain fans, as that would backfire. It's more appropriate to gain Canadian fans then rebrand (way, way down the road, if ever) to better capture the essence of the fanbase.

 

I believe a Niagara Falls stadium would do far more to attract Canadian fans than a name change would.

Edited July 14, 2012 by BillnutinHouston

[Chandler#81]

I have to check TSW by-laws, but I'm pretty sure heresy rates a lifetime ban.. Jk.

I don't want to think about that future possibility, but like Sage, I'd adapt if they stayed in Western NY. They'd HAVE to keep the buffalo logo though, so it could be the team name..

The Erie Buffalo?

[boyst]

dafuq did i just read?

[Dirtbag]

i've always believed that money would be the deciding factor as to whether the bills stay or go. now that i see it's just a matter of adding a few shoulder patches and helmet decals, i'm much more optimistic.

 

patch away, ralphie!

Edited July 14, 2012 by Dirtbag

[BillnutinHouston]

i've always believed that money would be the deciding factor as to whether the bills stay or go. now that i see it's just a matter of adding a few shoulder patches and helmet decals, i'm much more optimistic.

 

patch away, ralphie!

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

dafuq did i just read?

 

The TSW equivalent of Lady Gaga in a steak bikini.

[You herd it hear last]

But you see, I think the Bills single value to the NFL is it's short but interesting history and it's loveable-loser-like, small town charm and brand. It's the WNY / state politicians' lack of vision that has driven people (such as myself) from the area. It's not the Bills fault, WNY hasn't reinvented itself. As soon as the vitality of the AREA is returned, the pride and confidence of its' people will lag shortly behind. The seats and club boxes will be teeming with smiling, boisterous fans as the FO hangs banner upon banner in honor of it's championship squads.

 

But why should we care about those things when we can vent our frustrations through our local, PRIVATELY OWNED, football club?

[sir andrew]

This has the potential to be a really really good thread or a really really bad one.

[BRAWNDO]

If you don't get involved over there, you don't have to move there. But unfortunately, we got involved over there so here's what I say to that:

Canadians. Giving us Beiber and saying "A" at the end of every sentence. Just because it's the first letter of the alphabet doesn't mean that you have to end every sentence with it!

 

And then you guys have the balls to steal our football!?!?! you guys, you.

 

The "eh" at the end of every sentence isn't as bad as pronouncing Z as Zed.

 

Not regionalizing is not an option for this franchise. Because of Buffalo's small size, its version of regionalizing into Canada is pretty much equivalent to other NFL cities just now starting to market to their own northwest suburbs.

 

The "Buffalo Bills" is a 50+ year, storied, iconic brand name, steeped in history and tradition. You don't casually mess with that unless/until your fanbase has already gone 60-70% Canadian as a result of other, organic means. I don't think you rebrand in an effort to gain fans, as that would backfire. It's more appropriate to gain Canadian fans then rebrand (way, way down the road, if ever) to better capture the essence of the fanbase.

 

I believe a Niagara Falls stadium would do far more to attract Canadian fans than a name change would.

 

This.

[Captain Hindsight]

I know this is a difficult subject I have been a Bills fan as long as there was an AFC. Looking at the demographics of Western New York I do not believe the franchise is viable post Ralph Wilson without successful regionalization into the Toronto market. The Bills will need to sell more tickets at higher prices to stay here.

 

What name and or other tactics would you give to a team that would be inclusive to the Ontario market and not lose the Rochester and Syracuse markets? I would like to see a Shoulder patch on a new uniform or a helmet decal that uses the crossed U.S. and Canadian Flags similar to the one we use on youth hockey garb. Using the word "Niagara" certainly is a possiblity the "Niagara Power"

is a start but I would like to see some other ideas especially from Canadians who will need to embrace this team if it is to stay here.

 

I know this is heresy to many fans who are attached to the Bills as am I and I certainly understand your issues with it but I do not think the status quo is really an option post Ralph.

To sell your product, you want to change its already all recognized label?

[OCinBuffalo]

Should we change the name of Buffalo Wings...because they are now consumed by a wider market? I mean, after all, if we apply the reasoning above, wouldn't North American Wings make more sense?

 

 

No. The brand....which albeit....we have gotten way far away from the last 10 years.....of the Buffalo Bills is:

1. Punishing Defense that only gets hungrier and angrier as the game goes on and the weather gets worse.

2. The weather...while bringing cold discomfort to the opponent, only adds firery wrath to our fans who can't feel the cold. Whether that is due to years of conditioning, zealotry, or inebriation, can't be known, and therefore adds to the mystique.

3. Soccer moms who are scarier to opposing teams than even the most bizarrely dressed Raiders fan...because they are LOUDER, and will keep cheering the whole game regardless of the score!

4. A city who has every reason to feel bad....refusing to...and instead feeling good about their team, thus confounding the rest of the nation.

5. And of course, the most important ingredient: when the Bills are winning, they can't be angry. They can't hate. They know that we are the good guys, whether they want to admit it or not it irrelevant.

 

We haven't seen this brand for a while, but it is still there, in the minds of those who can remember. The best is that we seem to be headed back in that direction. That's why I don't care as much about the offense, or who the QB is. As long as they can finish what the D starts, and then, as the sheets of rain and snow come down, and the winds of FAIL swirl around the other team, run the ball to close the game, we will be back to our brand of football.

 

A brand, that can only emanate from one place, one stadium, and one fan base.

[PearlHowardman]

Batavia.

 

With a stadium in Batavia you draw all of Buffalo, all of Rochester, and most of Syracuse (where I live).

 

That should be enough.

[bills_fan_in_raleigh]

A downtown stadium or a nfalls stadium makes it closer for fans on the north side of the border. Add in some nice regional transit from Rochester and Syracuse along with Ontario and you make it easy to get the fans in the seats. However when the product is decent there has never been an issue filling RWS.

 

A name change to address regional aspect is just plain damn stupid

Edited July 14, 2012 by bills_fan_in_raleigh

[Nanker]

Yes. What a fantastic idea! Think of all the excellent naming possibilities that would trounce that tired, haggard name - The Buffalo Bills.

Why, they could be renamed the Niagara Nincompoops, or the Lake Ontario Salmon, or the Erie Freezers, or the Niagara Riverwakers.

[T.O.]

Should we change the name of Buffalo Wings...because they are now consumed by a wider market? I mean, after all, if we apply the reasoning above, wouldn't North American Wings make more sense?

 

 

No. The brand....which albeit....we have gotten way far away from the last 10 years.....of the Buffalo Bills is:

1. Punishing Defense that only gets hungrier and angrier as the game goes on and the weather gets worse.

2. The weather...while bringing cold discomfort to the opponent, only adds firery wrath to our fans who can't feel the cold. Whether that is due to years of conditioning, zealotry, or inebriation, can't be known, and therefore adds to the mystique.

3. Soccer moms who are scarier to opposing teams than even the most bizarrely dressed Raiders fan...because they are LOUDER, and will keep cheering the whole game regardless of the score!

4. A city who has every reason to feel bad....refusing to...and instead feeling good about their team, thus confounding the rest of the nation.

5. And of course, the most important ingredient: when the Bills are winning, they can't be angry. They can't hate. They know that we are the good guys, whether they want to admit it or not it irrelevant.

 

We haven't seen this brand for a while, but it is still there, in the minds of those who can remember. The best is that we seem to be headed back in that direction. That's why I don't care as much about the offense, or who the QB is. As long as they can finish what the D starts, and then, as the sheets of rain and snow come down, and the winds of FAIL swirl around the other team, run the ball to close the game, we will be back to our brand of football.

 

A brand, that can only emanate from one place, one stadium, and one fan base.

[MHS75]

Not regionalizing is not an option for this franchise. Because of Buffalo's small size, its version of regionalizing into Canada is pretty much equivalent to other NFL cities just now starting to market to their own northwest suburbs.

 

The "Buffalo Bills" is a 50+ year, storied, iconic brand name, steeped in history and tradition. You don't casually mess with that unless/until your fanbase has already gone 60-70% Canadian as a result of other, organic means. I don't think you rebrand in an effort to gain fans, as that would backfire. It's more appropriate to gain Canadian fans then rebrand (way, way down the road, if ever) to better capture the essence of the fanbase.

 

I believe a Niagara Falls stadium would do far more to attract Canadian fans than a name change would.

My Thoughts exactly!

[RevWarRifleman]

If you don't get involved over there, you don't have to move there. But unfortunately, we got involved over there so here's what I say to that:

Canadians. Giving us Beiber and saying "A" at the end of every sentence. Just because it's the first letter of the alphabet doesn't mean that you have to end every sentence with it!

 

And then you guys have the balls to steal our football!?!?! you guys, you.

 

Did someone from Canada murder a member of your family?? Such negative whining. Canadians are good people.

[Captain Hindsight]

If you don't get involved over there, you don't have to move there. But unfortunately, we got involved over there so here's what I say to that:

Canadians. Giving us Beiber and saying "A" at the end of every sentence. Just because it's the first letter of the alphabet doesn't mean that you have to end every sentence with it!

 

And then you guys have the balls to steal our football!?!?! you guys, you.

Holy overreaction Batman

[B-Man]

I know this is a difficult subject I have been a Bills fan as long as there was an AFC. Looking at the demographics of Western New York I do not believe the franchise is viable post Ralph Wilson without successful regionalization into the Toronto market. The Bills will need to sell more tickets at higher prices to stay here.

 

 

 

 

I reject your supposition..........................it is an oft repeated myth.

 

 

Winning solves everything. Over a decade of drought proves that.

 

If the Bills win and are battling for playoffs IN Nov. and Dec. the stadium will be filled.

 

 

.

[metzelaars_lives]

The TSW equivalent of Lady Gaga in a steak bikini.

 

Thanks for the laugh.

 

In all seriousness, to the people saying. "this team HAS to regionalize if..." THEY ARE ALREADY EXTREMELY REGIONALIZED. Rochester is a city with a skyline and its own suburbs and is all Bills fans and many of them make the drive. The parking lot is 15-20% Canadian plates on any given Sunday. If they weren't already thoroughly regionalized, they would've left a long time ago. As is stands they already draw from a very decent sized market.

[chris heff]

Firstly, when you get past LA, look at city populations and tell me which would be better for this franchise than western NY.

Secondly, why change the name? Jets and Giants play in NJ, Redskins play in Maryland.

[Billsfreak17]

I reject your supposition..........................it is an oft repeated myth.

 

 

Winning solves everything. Over a decade of drought proves that.

 

If the Bills win and are battling for playoffs IN Nov. and Dec. the stadium will be filled.

 

 

.

So this theory is that for the Bills to be financially successful, they need to have a winning record every year. That's not stability. Every team has its ups and downs....and like every team, the Bills need to be financially secure to build their way back up when they are down.

 

Firstly, when you get past LA, look at city populations and tell me which would be better for this franchise than western NY.

Secondly, why change the name? Jets and Giants play in NJ, Redskins play in Maryland.

Actually, I'm sure I speak for the majority of Canadian fans. We love going to the U.S.A. to catch a game.

I live in Quebec (just across the river from Ottawa), and when I go to see a Bills game, I drive right past Toronah to Buffalo. I've never been to a Bills game in Toronah, and hopefully never will. Why? TAILGATE PARTY, PERIOD.

 

Moving the stadium to Niagra (the U.S. side) would probably be the best move. Keep the name, just make a symbolic reach out to the Canadian fans to make them feel like it's partly their team too, and they can easily get to a game and return home for dinner.

It still would be close enough for Syracuse and Rochestah fan to make it, too.

[Optometric Insight]

Moving the stadium to Niagra (the U.S. side) would probably be the best move. Keep the name, just make a symbolic reach out to the Canadian fans to make them feel like it's partly their team too, and they can easily get to a game and return home for dinner.

It still would be close enough for Syracuse and Rochestah fan to make it, too.

Sounds like a pretty sound idea. Like you said, moving the stadium to Niagara. It would stink if they put a dome over there; it would be an amazing home field advantage to have the crowd AND *the roar of the falls*.

 

I'm not sure how far it is but when we make the trip to the Falls from Derby, its about a 45 minute trip and it takes a half an hour to get to downtown Buffalo so 15 minutes away from downtown wouldn't be such a bad idea especially since the Ralph is already 5-10 minutes away from there.

 

*Depending on how close to the Falls the stadium is*

[NoSaint]

Thanks for the laugh.

 

In all seriousness, to the people saying. "this team HAS to regionalize if..." THEY ARE ALREADY EXTREMELY REGIONALIZED. Rochester is a city with a skyline and its own suburbs and is all Bills fans and many of them make the drive. The parking lot is 15-20% Canadian plates on any given Sunday. If they weren't already thoroughly regionalized, they would've left a long time ago. As is stands they already draw from a very decent sized market.

Honest question: how many teams don't also have a Rochester equivalent or larger within similar distance?

 

The Rochester draw doesn't seem unique or special to our market when I think about it.

 

For instance:

New Orleans has baton rouge and Biloxi, Nashville has Memphis, Milwaukee is a little further for green bay (2hrs), Seattle has Tacoma (even closer), miami has ft lauderdale, tampa has orlando less than 2 hours etc.....

 

Every team large or small leverages the regional draw. Without Toronto, we're not closing any market gap.

Edited July 14, 2012 by NoSaint

[Pirate Angel]

Winning.....Winning solves everything, winning brings in more money, a larger fan base. If we continue to be mediocre than our franchise becomes more and more expendable. Green Bays situation is similar and is anybody questioning them leaving the area?,,,no because they have a wining organization that creates a strong fan base. Do I want a bunch of bandwagon half witted fans pulling for my team?...hell no! but its money to the bills.

[metzelaars_lives]

Honest question: how many teams don't also have a Rochester equivalent or larger within similar distance?

 

The Rochester draw doesn't seem unique or special to our market when I think about it.

 

Interesting question. You may have a point. I live in Denver and Colorado Springs is an hour away and it's a bigger city than Buffalo (granted it doesn't have the suburbs). But the Canada thing is certainly unique.

 

EDIT: Upon further review: Rochester is the 51st biggest metro area in the US (Buffalo is 49th). To have a city that big an hour away, I can't think of too many other teams that have that type of luxury. Not to mention Syracuse is 80th, just ahead of Colorado Springs. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Table_of_United_States_Metropolitan_Statistical_Areas

Edited July 14, 2012 by metzelaars_lives

[NoSaint]

Interesting question. You may have a point. I live in Denver and Colorado Springs is an hour away and it's a bigger city than Buffalo. But the Canada thing is certainly unique.

 

I edited some - kind of talking into the same conclusion.

[RevWarRifleman]

So this theory is that for the Bills to be financially successful, they need to have a winning record every year. That's not stability. Every team has its ups and downs....and like every team, the Bills need to be financially secure to build their way back up when they are down.

 

 

Actually, I'm sure I speak for the majority of Canadian fans. We love going to the U.S.A. to catch a game.

I live in Quebec (just across the river from Ottawa), and when I go to see a Bills game, I drive right past Toronah to Buffalo. I've never been to a Bills game in Toronah, and hopefully never will. Why? TAILGATE PARTY, PERIOD.

 

Moving the stadium to Niagra (the U.S. side) would probably be the best move. Keep the name, just make a symbolic reach out to the Canadian fans to make them feel like it's partly their team too, and they can easily get to a game and return home for dinner.

It still would be close enough for Syracuse and Rochestah fan to make it, too.

You live in the Province of Quebec? Cool. This might be a bit off from the poster's topic, Billsfreak17, but one of the best experiences we had watching a Bills game on TV was was in Quebec City. It was during the first few weeks of the 2008 season & we would go to a great place called "La Cage a Sports". Great facilities, food, service & tons of TV's all over. We came in & told the waitress what game we wanted, & before we knew it, they turned almost ALL of the TV's to the Bills game. Sweet. We've been to the city several times, and our experience those weeks at the La Cage a Sports was one of many, many while in Quebec.

Just thought I'd share. When you mentioned where you live, those are the memories I have.

[NoSaint]

Interesting question. You may have a point. I live in Denver and Colorado Springs is an hour away and it's a bigger city than Buffalo (granted it doesn't have the suburbs). But the Canada thing is certainly unique.

 

EDIT: Upon further review: Rochester is the 51st biggest metro area in the US (Buffalo is 49th). To have a city that big an hour away, I can't think of too many other teams that have that type of luxury. Not to mention Syracuse is 80th, just ahead of Colorado Springs. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Table_of_United_States_Metropolitan_Statistical_Areas

 

A lot of the ones I named were in the 150k-200k I think. Some larger. Rochester was a little bigger (and a few thousand more than I thought) but once you get in that range a small gap in population can cause a huge gap in ranking. I still think a lot have their own "Rochester draw" and that truly toronto is the special discussion if your actually going to make up market size to the big boys. Essentially, yes, target Rochester- but everyone's doing the same thing in their own markets.

Edited July 14, 2012 by NoSaint

[Billsfreak17]

You live in the Province of Quebec? Cool. This might be a bit off from the poster's topic, Billsfreak17, but one of the best experiences we had watching a Bills game on TV was was in Quebec City. It was during the first few weeks of the 2008 season & we would go to a great place called "La Cage a Sports". Great facilities, food, service & tons of TV's all over. We came in & told the waitress what game we wanted, & before we knew it, they turned almost ALL of the TV's to the Bills game. Sweet. We've been to the city several times, and our experience those weeks at the La Cage a Sports was one of many, many while in Quebec.

Just thought I'd share. When you mentioned where you live, those are the memories I have.

Sadly, La Cage a Sports near my place here in Gatineau just closed down. However, on the market in Ottawa, construction is underway on a 'Real Sports' bar and restaurant.

Now THAT is going to be niiice. 99 TVs, one 20 foot mega-screen.....can't wait.

 

Back to the original topic though, I should point out that literally ALL the Bills fans that I know also make the trek to B-lo, rather than watch the Bills game in Toronto. They give the same reasons; the atmosphere and the tailgate parties. The Toronah people could make a bigger case if they built an outdoor stadium in somewhere like St. Catherines, or near Hamilton. Out in the middle of nowhere, with a parking lot like the one at the Ralph.

More fans would come over the border, I"m sure. I wish the best for Toronto, and hope that (after the Bills have their new outdoor stadium in Niagra area), they make plans to build a stadium like the one I described. It would be Canada's way of saying ''thanks for sharing, check out what we're gonna do for you guys''.

[biglukes]

I don't see any chance that if a new stadium is ever built, that it is not built in Erie County. Niagara and Genesee counties don't have even remotely close to the population that Erie does. How would either be able to afford all of the county money that the Bills currently get?

[RevWarRifleman]

Sadly, La Cage a Sports near my place here in Gatineau just closed down. However, on the market in Ottawa, construction is underway on a 'Real Sports' bar and restaurant.

Now THAT is going to be niiice. 99 TVs, one 20 foot mega-screen.....can't wait.

 

Back to the original topic though, I should point out that literally ALL the Bills fans that I know also make the trek to B-lo, rather than watch the Bills game in Toronto. They give the same reasons; the atmosphere and the tailgate parties. The Toronah people could make a bigger case if they built an outdoor stadium in somewhere like St. Catherines, or near Hamilton. Out in the middle of nowhere, with a parking lot like the one at the Ralph.

More fans would come over the border, I"m sure. I wish the best for Toronto, and hope that (after the Bills have their new outdoor stadium in Niagra area), they make plans to build a stadium like the one I described. It would be Canada's way of saying ''thanks for sharing, check out what we're gonna do for you guys''.

 

Ah oui, Gatineau. I've heard that Ottawa & the area from those who have been there is a great place to hang. Maybe some day me & my wife can make the trip. Yeah, I'm somewhat familiar with the wide open territory it is around St Catherinesand how nicely a stadium would fit. So, with that being said, I'd like to bounce this question off of you. You seem to be a pretty knowledgeable Canadian sports fan. Say the 'regionalization' powers that be get their way after Ralph dies & the Bills move into a new stadium across the border, even if it's just outside N-Falls, let alone out around St Catherines. Would putting an NFL team there eventually mean the death of the two CFL teams from Hamilton & Toronto? And if that could be a viable possiblity, wouldn't that, at least, severelly cripple, if not collapse the CFL? Just a question. Your thoughts?

[Billsfreak17]

Ah oui, Gatineau. I've heard that Ottawa & the area from those who have been there is a great place to hang. Maybe some day me & my wife can make the trip. Yeah, I'm somewhat familiar with the wide open territory it is around St Catherinesand how nicely a stadium would fit. So, with that being said, I'd like to bounce this question off of you. You seem to be a pretty knowledgeable Canadian sports fan. Say the 'regionalization' powers that be get their way after Ralph dies & the Bills move into a new stadium across the border, even if it's just outside N-Falls, let alone out around St Catherines. Would putting an NFL team there eventually mean the death of the two CFL teams from Hamilton & Toronto? And if that could be a viable possiblity, wouldn't that, at least, severelly cripple, if not collapse the CFL? Just a question. Your thoughts?

Good question. I'm not sure. However, the CFL hasn't exactly collapsed since the Bills started playing there. I'm only speaking about a 'regionalization' plan. For it to work for the Bills in Toronto series in the long term, the next stadium to host a game or two every year would be better off built nearer the border. This would make the whole experience an easier thing to swallow for the American fans, and probably improve the tailgate and atmosphere for all fans....and the Bills themselves.

[RevWarRifleman]

Good question. I'm not sure. However, the CFL hasn't exactly collapsed since the Bills started playing there. I'm only speaking about a 'regionalization' plan. For it to work for the Bills in Toronto series in the long term, the next stadium to host a game or two every year would be better off built nearer the border. This would make the whole experience an easier thing to swallow for the American fans, and probably improve the tailgate and atmosphere for all fans....and the Bills themselves.

 

Ok, thanks for your input and taking the time to post. Appreciate it, and enjoy the Bills, the tailgates, and those great Canadian brews. Go Bills!

[PastaJoe]

Ever heard of the Green Bay Packers? Their region is the whole state of Wisconsin.