Trayvon Martin Case

[KD in CA]

In a state where the defendant has to prove self-defense as an affirmative defense its burden is preponderance of the evidence. In most cases when the "victim" was on top of the shooter pumping his face with his fist when he got shot you've got a pretty good case. Especially when all it appears he did to provoke the attack is report the other guy to the police.

 

Of course if the "victim" has some cute childhood pictures & skittles all bets are off.

 

Yup. This has nothing to do with FL law. Same verdict would have been reached in any sane state.

[Just Jack]

I worked for a few years as security at various jobs. My fellow security guards were the biggest bunch of Chernobyl survivors I ever saw. Almost all were dumber than a jar of mayonnaise.

 

Where I work, I think most of the security guards would keel over with a heart attack if they had to chase someone.

[TakeYouToTasker]

In a state where the defendant has to prove self-defense as an affirmative defense its burden is preponderance of the evidence. In most cases when the "victim" was on top of the shooter pumping his face with his fist when he got shot you've got a pretty good case. Especially when all it appears he did to provoke the attack is report the other guy to the police.

 

Of course if the "victim" has some cute childhood pictures & skittles all bets are off.

In Rhode Island the person claiming self defense needs to prove, even in their own home against an armed intruder and assailant, that they first tried to escape and that they were cornered with no other options, at all.

[OCinBuffalo]

The verdict is in clowns. Deal with it.

 

Enough of your straw grasping distractions. Let's get back to how:

 

1. Obamacare is an abject failure that is costing us jobs/$

2. The IRS managed to break the law multiple times, and clearly isn't fit to run Obamacare

3. The POTUS showed cowardice under fire, by running to his bed, when we had Americans engaged in a fire fight

4. The DOJ has abused their power, over and over, both in investigating reporters, when people in their admin are the leakers, and they leaked for political gain

5. Obama foreign policy ideology fail has created Obama disaster in 5 different countries, at the same time.

 

...and, the real issue that Ds have been trying to avoid forever, by throwing in gay marriage, global warming and every other non-priority...

 

6. You have no plan to fix entitlements, so, you have no plan to fix the country's budget and finances as a whole, and you've stated this publicly, numerous times

 

Since you can't raise any political $ from unions, gays/hollywood, and environtologists, because all of their issues have expired...do you really think that you can fleece the black community some more, and that this will not only help you win in 2014, but, will give you the distraction from 1-6 that you are so desperate for?

 

Make no mistake, by the end of this week? We are back to 1-6. So, I ask you: now what?

[ExiledInIllinois]

 

 

Yup. This has nothing to do with FL law. Same verdict would have been reached in any sane state.

 

Did you read TYTT's comment above. Granted, I will give you that you said: "sane state." But, self-defense for most part of the last century has been defined as how Rhode Island defines it. Maybe, all the other states are insane and FLA is sane... Go figure that one out! LoL... I thought it was the opposite.

 

The verdict is in clowns. Deal with it.

 

Enough of your straw grasping distractions. Let's get back to how:

 

1. Obamacare is an abject failure that is costing us jobs/$

2. The IRS managed to break the law multiple times, and clearly isn't fit to run Obamacare

3. The POTUS showed cowardice under fire, by running to his bed, when we had Americans engaged in a fire fight

4. The DOJ has abused their power, over and over, both in investigating reporters, when people in their admin are the leakers, and they leaked for political gain

5. Obama foreign policy ideology fail has created Obama disaster in 5 different countries, at the same time.

 

...and, the real issue that Ds have been trying to avoid forever, by throwing in gay marriage, global warming and every other non-priority...

 

6. You have no plan to fix entitlements, so, you have no plan to fix the country's budget and finances as a whole, and you've stated this publicly, numerous times

 

Since you can't raise any political $ from unions, gays/hollywood, and environtologists, because all of their issues have expired...do you really think that you can fleece the black community some more, and that this will not only help you win in 2014, but, will give you the distraction from 1-6 that you are so desperate for?

 

Make no mistake, by the end of this week? We are back to 1-6. So, I ask you: now what?

 

Hey Nate... Where the heck did this post come from? LoL...

[TakeYouToTasker]

Thoughtful edit:

 

I can't wait until liberals realize that their stance, if applied objectively, means that women are not permitted to use force against rapists and assailants; and if they do, and wish not to go to jail, that they must submit to an open state's inquiry into the truthfulness of their rape and assault claims, including opening themselves up to direct investigation into their personal sexual history, and personal medical records.

 

Did you read TYTT's comment above. Granted, I will give you that you said: "sane state." But, self-defense for most part of the last century has been defined as how Rhode Island defines it. Maybe, all the other states are insane and FLA is sane... Go figure that one out! LoL... I thought it was the opposite.

Rhode Island's law seems sane to you?

[Wacka]

The bumbling prosecution added the manslaughter as the case closed. What that means is that the prosecution did NOT set the case up as manslaughter, but instead spent the entire case trying to get at Zimmerman's frame of mind, which was required for Murder 2. The jury (probably) didn't buy that Zimmerman was a nutjob. I gotta tell you--if the prosecution doesn't prove what it spent 2 weeks trying to prove, adding a lesser charge at the 12th hour usually won't stick because the jury thinks the prosecution failed.

 

Zimmerman was not stupid for calling the cops. He was stupid for leaving his car. He didn't have a duty to stay in his car. He did not have to listen to the dispatcher. He was just being dumb, but dumb doesn't equal murderer.

 

From what I seen you spout in PPP in the past , it is my opinion that you may be a bigger nutjob than you think Zimmerman is.

Edited July 15, 2013 by Wacka

[ExiledInIllinois]

Thoughtful edit:

 

I can't wait until liberals realize that their stance, if applied objectively, means that women are not permitted to use force against rapists and assailants; and if they do, and wish not to go to jail, that they must submit to an open state's inquiry into the truthfulness of their rape and assault claims, including opening themselves up to direct investigation into their personal sexual history, and personal medical records.

 

 

Rhode Island's law seems sane to you?

 

Saner than FLA... @ least they stood the test of time (w/other states too) a bit longer. When it comes to laws... Any big, high-profile cases like hanging chads and race relations up there in "providence." :-P

 

 

 

From what I seen you spout in PP in the past , it is my opinion that you may be a bigger nutjob tan you think Zimmerman is.

 

LoL... Oh boy, volley across the bow from Wacka! You go!

 

Anway... I am still looking for the OJ-Martin thread since the other one got closed. Is this it? 170+ pages of abortion... @ least it has a long way to being locked down (Last Post Wins Standard)... ;-)

[B-Man]

Zimmerman isn’t out of the legal woods

 

FTA:

Even so, Alan Dershowitz, who followed the criminal case closely, isn’t sure “where you’ll find a lawyer who is prepared to bring [a suit], because it has very little chance of success.”

 

One place where we might find such a lawyer is in Eric Holder’s Department of Justice. Indeed, the Justice Department, which already has fanned the flames against Zimmerman, now says it will continue its own investigation.

 

Dershowitz believes that the DOJ will not pursue a case against Zimmerman. He also believes that, if it does bring a case, the case will not succeed.

 

I agree on the second point. One does not violate any federal law, including the civil rights laws, by shooting someone in self defense. And the evidence that Zimmerman acted in self-defense is strong enough that he should be able to prevail under the standard of proof applicable in a civil case.

 

Zimmerman also broke no federal law by following Trayvon Martin in furtherance of the former’s neighborhood patrol role. One should never underestimate the creativity of over-zealous civil rights lawyers, but I doubt there is a plausible theory under which it can maintained that Zimmerman violated Martin’s civil rights as defined by federal law.

 

It was no accident that the prosecution in the criminal case backed away from the theory that Zimmerman acted out of racial animus. There is no evidence that he did; nor any evidence that Zimmerman, who has mentored African-American children, holds such animus.

 

Let’s also keep in mind the fact of the jury’s verdict in the state case. The Justice Department acknowledged this complication when it said it will examine “whether federal prosecution is appropriate in accordance with the Department’s policy governing successive federal prosecution following a state trial.”

 

But none of this means that Holder’s DOJ won’t bring a case against Zimmerman. It would be nice to believe, as Dershowitz seems to, that Holder is simply trying to appease the race-mongers in the aftermath of a verdict they hate, and that ultimately he will let the matter fade.

That’s a plausible scenario. But the race-mongers won’t so easily be appeased. Moreover, the DOJ contains more than its share of them. Thus, a scenario in which DOJ comes out of the shadows and takes the lead in the further persecution of George Zimmerman is also plausible.

 

http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2013/07/zimmerman-isnt-out-of-the-legal-woods.php

[Fezmid]

In Rhode Island the person claiming self defense needs to prove, even in their own home against an armed intruder and assailant, that they first tried to escape and that they were cornered with no other options, at all.

I think when you have a 6' guy on top of you doing the "ground and pound" (and a witness testified that he saw this, just like Zimmerman claimed - I think it was even a state's witness, although I can't remember since all of the witnesses favored the defense ), you've proven that you're cornered with no other options. Or would you disagree with that statement?

 

So, according to what you wrote, even in Rhode Island, Zimmerman would've been let off.

[OCinBuffalo]

Hey Nate... Where the heck did this post come from? LoL...

Oh, I don't know...how about: the real world?

 

The real world, where Obamacare does actually suck, on wheels.

The real world, where the IRS, and government in general, has obvious and massive corruption problems.

The real world, where cowardice in the face of the enemy gets you court martialed.

The real world, where real law breaking, done by law enforcement/intelligence services, is the ONLY criminal case we should be focused on right now.

The real world, where Obama F'ing about in fairyland/leftist ideology for the first 4 years, is causing massive damage to our standing in the world, is causing real people to get dead.

 

Yeah, none of it comes from fairyland, the land of wishes and magic, unicorns and rainbows, where you live. The land where everything comes out OK in the end, because the bad guy isn't really bad, he's just misunderstood, and all it takes to turn him around is some magical fruit and lots of hugs, because he's really just hungry and lonely.

 

The land where magic wands are real and they solve all our problems. Who doesn't want to live there? We can, if only we really believe hard enough...and repeat "yes we can" enough times...entitlement programs won't destroy our economy, the debt they create won't destroy our currency, massive immigration won't destroy the middle class's wages, and every evil a-hole in the world won't use poision gas on his own people.

 

Yes, we should spend more time on race relations, because all the other issues(that actually matter) are: yucky and no fun.

 

 

Yeah all of this is

[/dev/null]

Tonight on CNN, Ms Jeantel goes face to face with one creepy ass cracker:

 

http://www.theblaze.com/blog/2013/07/15/piers-morgan-lands-rachel-jeantel-interview/

 

Talk about a meeting of the minds

[BuffaloBillsForever]

Dershowitz doesn't pull any punches when asked about Angela Cory

 

MIKE HUCKABEE: You have said that you thought the prosecutor ought to be disbarred, that's a pretty serious type of violation to get a person disbarred. It is that serious to you?

 

ALAN DERSHOWITZ: Right, it is. She submitted an affidavit that was, if not perjurious, completely misleading. She violated all kinds of rules of the profession, and her conduct bordered on criminal conduct. She, by the way, has a horrible reputation in Florida. She's known for overcharging, she's known for being highly political. And in this case, of course she overcharged. Halfway through the trial she realized she wasn't going to get a second degree murder verdict, so she asked for a compromised verdict, for manslaughter. And then, she went even further and said that she was going to charge him with child abuse and felony murder. That was such a stretch that it goes beyond anything professionally responsible. She was among the most irresponsible prosecutors I've seen in 50 years of litigating cases, and believe me, I've seen good prosecutors, bad prosecutors, but rarely have I seen one as bad as this prosecutor, [Angela] Cory. (Huckabee, July 14, 2013)

[boyst]

Chris Matthews is... well...he is going Chris Matthews.

[Gary M]

http://www.ijreview.com/2013/07/65527-in-513-days-between-trayvon-shooting-and-zimmerman-verdict-11106-blacks-murdered-by-other-blacks/

 

where are the protests for these innocent victims?

[OCinBuffalo]

Chris Matthews is... well...he is going Chris Matthews.

crap, I forgot to turn on MSNBC. Is it as funny as usual?

[Doc]

http://www.ijreview....y-other-blacks/

 

where are the protests for these innocent victims?

Please. Do they look like Barry's fictitious son would have?

[bbb]

I have this ultra liberal friend/colleague who I correspond with by email.

 

She emailed me about the "appalling verdict" Sunday morning.............I asked her repeatedly - did you watch the trial and/or how did you come to this conclusion...........She kept just coming back with worse "Facts" than dog12345. I said OK, I can see that you didn't watch or pay attention to the trial and this is what she said (finally answering my question, but in a horrifying way - horrifying because she is also one of the multitudes saying the travesty, etc. on social media:

 

I guess my feeling is I don't NEED to watch the trial to know what my feelings are. There is NEVER a time when someone with a gun should be allowed to shoot an unarmed teenager walking on the street where his father owns a home. NEVER. No matter what else happened. If Zimmerman hadn't been such a vigilante then none of this would have happened. If they had armed neighborhood watch people they should have told all the residents of the Condo and they should have been clearly designated as such and with a proper authority to have a gun and have it in plain view so the poor kid would have had a chance. Nothing else matters, no other circumstances matter because they basic scenario is, for me, unacceptable. So I can't change my mind about how I feel unless I change my mind about all sorts of things, including my feeling about guns.

[boyst]

Another work gem:

Talking to a 55 year old black man. We usually get along and find common ground that the end result is fubar. He and I talked about the case multiple times in the past week but today I finally started to get to him I guess. I had stated that it was not about race - and he stated it was. He came back saying he heard the tapes. I asked what tapes and where? Of course, on TV, talking about him being black. OK. Well, he shouldn't have got out of the car, the police told him not to... Of course, I corrected him. Then it was about Trayvon only had Skittles against a grown man...correct him. Then, explained Trayvon had ample time to get away and even got to the steps of the house...didn't believe it. In fact, after each truth he came out and said, "Well, that's your opinion. I wasn't there, you were not there." I explained to him these are the facts, the guy picked a fight with the wrong guy and shouldn't have hit first. "How do you know he hit first?"

"I know the evidence, I know the case. Trayvon was an instigator and there is enough evidence to show he came back to Zimmerman, and even if he didn't - the prosecution had to prove beyond a reasonable doubt."

"ok, so you're telling me this was nothing at all? no race?"

"No," I quoted the testimony of many about his tone and stuff.

"Ok, well, I didn't see all that."

obviously, I noticed, told him to watch the news, told him about altered tapes...all of it didn't matter. He didn't care.

 

Eventually, I got to the FBI investigating it. He said he did not believe it, otherwise it'd be on TV. I mentioned that he is suing NBC and other media outlets - he didn't believe it and said he cannot. I mentioned that the lead prosecutor resigned before taking the case. Didn't believe it, because "it doesn't change the facts." "what facts?"....

 

"He was an unarmed boy, walking home and didn't deserve to get shot."

"No, he was an unarmed boy who attacked a man and used the sidewalk to assault a man and paid the price of his life for that mistake."

 

"Well, you got your story and beliefs...I have mine."

 

"No, I have the truth and 6 women proved that."

 

crap, I forgot to turn on MSNBC. Is it as funny as usual?

Stuff like

"the right is turning this in to a talking point and a time to attack the minorities, even tblame the Pres on this."

"We need to focus on the real problem here - the profiling of young black males."

"I am worried about young black males growing up today seeing the distortion of the laws..."They cut it off where the guy finished saying the black kids will carry guns to shoot first.

"Urban culture is under attack."

[IDBillzFan]

I have this ultra liberal friend/colleague who I correspond with by email.

 

She emailed me about the "appalling verdict" Sunday morning.............I asked her repeatedly - did you watch the trial and/or how did you come to this conclusion...........She kept just coming back with worse "Facts" than dog12345. I said OK, I can see that you didn't watch or pay attention to the trial and this is what she said (finally answering my question, but in a horrifying way - horrifying because she is also one of the multitudes saying the travesty, etc. on social media:

 

This is one of those rare times when you can clearly tell who followed the trial and who didn't, and the more you see people protesting, the more you realize they are doing what they were told to do, not what they think they should do.