thewildrabbit Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Some different numbers here based on cap hit: link OTOH, I don't see Stevie Johnson in any of those lists... even before or after Bills WR Kamar Aiken ranked at 113th and @ 465,000 BTW, wth is Kamar Aiken? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 My take away from this is Larry Fitzgerald is awesome and I would like to be on the panel rating catchable vs non catchable. Where can I send my resume? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atlbillsfan1975 Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 (edited) I like how Gailey has already handicapped himself with this situation and essentially said that if Stevie leaves, they'll just turn another no-name receiver into Stevie Johnson. A) Not the most diplomatic thing to say B) That is a ridiculous thing to assert, that you can just turn any random person into a number 1/2 WR. I get it is not a diplomatic thing to say. But it is not bad negotiating. Think about it, is Gailey lying? Can you make a strong arguement that SJ production soared under Gailey and his system? It also puts a kernel of doubt in some other teams mind, did Gailey and his system pad SJ stats? All the football execs already know about his big drop against Pitt and also in the NYJ game he had a crucial drop. Dont get me wrong, i want SJ back, but not for 10 mil. If you over pay a player it sets a bad precendt. Do you 100% believe Chan can not find another 1000yd receiver? SJ is not the next Fitzgerald or Moss. He is a solid piece and should get paid accordingly. Just because he is the first Bills receiver to have two back to back 1000 yd years, says more about how bad the Bills have been. And how the league has transformed. Edited February 23, 2012 by atlbillsfan1975 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stony Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Reading comprehension 101. No one has stated anywhere that the franchise tag will not be used. You guys are real big on guessing, but when there is a news article on the subject why read it and understand what was actually stated when you can just guess based on a misleading headline. It's even funnier that there were multiple points to the franchise tag. Whooooooaaaaa!! Zing! Not sure what your overreacting to but, yeah I never read the article. But then again, I never referenced the article. Just viewing the posts. Thank you for the common sense. If they are offering him 6 million a year, why send the mixed message that he is worth 9 million a year. The reality is that the franchise tag on receivers will be significantly more than that. Also, Johnson's camp needs to be wary of the situation Whitner found himself in by overestimating his market value at the time versus what the Bills offered him. And this is a horrible comparison with Whitner. Johnson has tangible results to back up his demands (whatever they might be). Whitner didn't. Teams will see a back-to-back 1000ys WR and a players who won his 1-on-1s with the best CB in the league. Whitner's value was hypothetical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 9 million is waay too much. 7.5 with an incentive or two. And 8.25 is as far as i go. Tomorrow is a big day i am thinking. He can be a very very good # 2 with us if he continues to develop and i would like him to be here for a coupla' reasons for a couple of years. the McGee contract was inspiring enough to consider we will tender Stevie a fair offer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Vader Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 According to LaCanfora: Bills set to meet with reps of Stevie Johnson tomorrow. Link: http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d82725711/article/report-bills-set-to-talk-contract-with-reps-of-wr-johnson?module=HP11_headline_stack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 (edited) OTOH, I don't see Stevie Johnson in any of those lists... even before or after Bills WR Kamar Aiken ranked at 113th and @ 465,000 BTW, wth is Kamar Aiken? What do you think the Chance is of Larry Fitzgerald getting his 15mil in 2018? Me thinks he won't. interesting...look who is the only skill position not named Larry Fitzgerald on that list! Edited February 24, 2012 by jboyst62 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobChalmers Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 Hey, listen, I agree with you 100% that Stevie isn't worth 10 million, but someone will pay him 10 million. Or at least 9 million. The whole argument is based on this premise - and with the number of seriously good FA WR's out there this year, I don't see it at all. What are there - 2 WR's right now over 9M? And the cap isn't getting bigger. As a FA he probably gets ~7M or 7.5 tops. He pwned Revis - but the drops are bad and at bad times. No way he out-earns Wallace, VJ, Bowe, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 (edited) The whole argument is based on this premise - and with the number of seriously good FA WR's out there this year, I don't see it at all. What are there - 2 WR's right now over 9M? And the cap isn't getting bigger. As a FA he probably gets ~7M or 7.5 tops. He pwned Revis - but the drops are bad and at bad times. No way he out-earns Wallace, VJ, Bowe, etc. Doesnt the cap get bigger every year? Serious question. I've never heard of it staying the same or shrinking. And teams will be required to spend more. I agree he wont be the top earner this Free Agency. Edited February 24, 2012 by DrDareustein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plenzmd1 Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 Doesnt the cap get bigger every year? Serious question. I've never heard of it staying the same or shrinking. And teams will be required to spend more. I agree he wont be the top earner this Free Agency. You know, thas a great point about being required to spens more.Forget this coming year, but in the next league year, in order to spend to the cap floor, Bills gotta pay somebody no? Wonder ow tat goes into the Bills thinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThurmasThoman Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 I get it is not a diplomatic thing to say. But it is not bad negotiating. Think about it, is Gailey lying? Can you make a strong arguement that SJ production soared under Gailey and his system? It also puts a kernel of doubt in some other teams mind, did Gailey and his system pad SJ stats? All the football execs already know about his big drop against Pitt and also in the NYJ game he had a crucial drop. Dont get me wrong, i want SJ back, but not for 10 mil. If you over pay a player it sets a bad precendt. Do you 100% believe Chan can not find another 1000yd receiver? SJ is not the next Fitzgerald or Moss. He is a solid piece and should get paid accordingly. Just because he is the first Bills receiver to have two back to back 1000 yd years, says more about how bad the Bills have been. And how the league has transformed. beliceck is a system guy who can get away saying that, because even when tom-goddamn-captain-america-brady goes down, they still won 11 games. chans "system" hasn't won that many games in two seasons COMBINED in buffalo. it's pure hubris on his part to say HE can make the next stev13. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 The whole argument is based on this premise - and with the number of seriously good FA WR's out there this year, I don't see it at all. What are there - 2 WR's right now over 9M? And the cap isn't getting bigger. As a FA he probably gets ~7M or 7.5 tops. He pwned Revis - but the drops are bad and at bad times. No way he out-earns Wallace, VJ, Bowe, etc. This is the heart of the issue - what is Stevie worth? It's gotten to the point where it may be in the interest of both sides to surf the free agent waters. Various pontificaters say Stevie would be a "great value" FA pickup at $6-7 million. Stevie's PR machine claims he wants $7.5 from the Bills. The Bills claim if that was what he wanted, he'd be signed by now. The guess is that both sides are telling the truth and the difference lies in the desired signing bonus, which counts against the cap. Then the question becomes how is Stevie valued by the market - can he get $8-9 million elsewhere, or only $6-7? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CodeMonkey Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 (edited) Doesnt the cap get bigger every year? Serious question. I've never heard of it staying the same or shrinking. And teams will be required to spend more. I think it is going to have to start shrinking at some point if the NFL wants to stay in business. Think about it for a minute, 10 million or more for one player for a 16 game regular season! That is just unbelievably ridiculous! The NFL has been trying to increase its fan base outside of the US, but has been (and in my opinion will continue to be) unsuccessful. There is no way the NFL can support these insane salaries solely on the backs (or wallets) of American fans. Edited February 24, 2012 by CodeMonkey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plenzmd1 Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 I think it is going to have to start shrinking at some point if the NFL wants to stay in business. Think about it for a minute, 10 million or more for one player for a 16 game regular season! That is just unbelievably ridiculous! The NFL has been trying to increase its fan base outside of the US, but has been (and in my opinion will continue to be) unsuccessful. There is no way the NFL can support these insane salaries solely on the backs (or wallets) of American fans. Well, the cap is based on revenue, so if renues continue to grow, so will the cap. And TV money is getting huge, so i do not see revenue going down. And as Dr. pointed out, next year the floor goes up..how the Bills going to get there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 The whole argument is based on this premise - and with the number of seriously good FA WR's out there this year, I don't see it at all. What are there - 2 WR's right now over 9M? And the cap isn't getting bigger. As a FA he probably gets ~7M or 7.5 tops. He pwned Revis - but the drops are bad and at bad times. No way he out-earns Wallace, VJ, Bowe, etc. Bowe is more of a wildcard then SJ. They are alike. Did not exist before Chan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CodeMonkey Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 Well, the cap is based on revenue, so if renues continue to grow, so will the cap. And TV money is getting huge, so i do not see revenue going down. And as Dr. pointed out, next year the floor goes up..how the Bills going to get there? TV money has to hit a ceiling as well in my opinion. I just don't see how this can be sustained without increasing the market (for example TV contracts in Europe or Asia) itself, which I don't see happening. But time will tell I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramius Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 (edited) The whole argument is based on this premise - and with the number of seriously good FA WR's out there this year, I don't see it at all. What are there - 2 WR's right now over 9M? And the cap isn't getting bigger. As a FA he probably gets ~7M or 7.5 tops. He pwned Revis - but the drops are bad and at bad times. No way he out-earns Wallace, VJ, Bowe, etc. I think you're off on a few points. First off, No one knows how many WRs are going to hit the open market. Wallace is a RFA, so he'll require someone to forfeit a 1st round pick. I highly doubt Welker sees free agency either. NE* will keep him. There's also a legit shot that the chiefs use the franchise tag on Bowe to keep him around. they've mentioned it. Colston and V-Jax seems to be the only "sure" bets to hit free agency along with Stevie. Fewer players will drive prices up. Also, you're off on your salaries. Look at the per year salary averages for WRs. Fitzgerald makes $14 million per year. Andre Johnon is 12 million. Santonio Holmes is 10 million annually. Brandon Marshall makes 10 million. Calvin Johnson in going into the last year of his rookie deal (11 million per), and they are working on an extension that will probably come in at 13-15 million per season. Given those numbers, it seems to be an easy bet that Stevie will come in at 8-9 million per year at the low end. Edited February 24, 2012 by Ramius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canadian Bills Fan Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 I just hate to think the Bills will let SJ walk away. They always do this. They are stubborn when it comes to shelling out big money once rookie contracts end. They did it to Winfield and Pat Williams. WR is not an easy position to fill. You cant just throw anyone in at a #1 WR spot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOKBILLS Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 Hey, listen, I agree with you 100% that Stevie isn't worth 10 million, but someone will pay him 10 million. Or at least 9 million. Well then...Buh bye Stevie... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
95altima12 Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 billsdaily.com says they are 2 mil apart... is that alot? Negotiations Today: Representatives for the Bills and Stevie Johnson will meet today in Indianapolis to continue contract negotiations. The two sides swapped proposals earlier this month and reports say they are about $2 Million a year apart at this time. Today's meeting will not result in a new deal but will go a long way in determining if the team has a chance at keeping Johnson off the free agent market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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