bbb Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 I don't know whether he should be in the HOF or not. His numbers would indicate he should be........But, poor man's Emmett Smith sure describes him....I never had any thought of Oh, no - how how we going to stop Curtis Martin! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 I don't know whether he should be in the HOF or not. His numbers would indicate he should be........But, poor man's Emmett Smith sure describes him....I never had any thought of Oh, no - how how we going to stop Curtis Martin! Art Monk or Cris Carter never scared anyone either. Michael Irvin, Andre Reed... they did, & are at a whole other level imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerball Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 He's got more than just the ordinary stats. He produced when it counted most (the postseason) and he made very few mistakes (i.e., fumbles). You have a valid opinion, as do I. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramius Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 (edited) You're kidding, right? He was as good as Thurman, sad to say, and one of the best vision/first-cut runners in NFL history. Just because he wasn't Barry Sanders doesn't mean he wasn't one of the best RBs of all time. I live in NY and saw way too many Jets games over the years. He was a warrior with great talent. Why do you think Parcells traded the farm for him after 97? Who was key in getting the Jets to 12-4 after a 1-15 season two seasons before? See my point about fumbles above. Offensive player of the year and MVPs is a crapshoot. In 2004, he was the best RB in the league. He had a great postseason in 1996 (166 yards and 3 tds against a dominant steelers D) and a good SB against GB. He's not the reason they lost that game. Martin is a highly uninspired pick. As mentioned, all he has is stats. And, for arguements sake, he only piled up the stats because he got so many rushes. But, this isn't baseball. No team was ever scared of Martin. He was extremely non-descript. Martin was never going to "dazzle" anyone. He never took the league by storm. All i remember Martin as a guy that was going to run for 2-4 yards on every attempt. He was good enough to not to get stopped for a loss, but he wasn't a game breaker. Martin simply got lucky enough to stay healthy all those years. And since when do we induct players into the HOF for avoiding injury? Martin doesn't pass the eye test. A nice player, yes. HOFer? Hell no. Edited February 9, 2012 by Ramius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Martin is a highly uninspired pick. As mentioned, all he has is stats. And, for arguements sake, he only piled up the stats because he got so many rushes. But, this isn't baseball. No team was ever scared of Martin. He was extremely non-descript. Martin was never going to "dazzle" anyone. He never took the league by storm. All i remember Martin as a guy that was going to run for 2-4 yards on every attempt. He was good enough to not to get stopped for a loss, but he wasn't a game breaker. Martin simply got lucky enough to stay healthy all those years. And since when do we induct players into the HOF for avoiding injury? Martin doesn't pass the eye test. A nice player, yes. HOFer? Hell no. 29 Fumbles, which upon further research of backs with over 10K yards, is the best ever in the history of the NFL. Multiple strong playoff appearances. One 1,700 yard season. 4th all time in yardage. Good enough for Parcells to trade the farm for him because he thought he was the player that could the Jets over the hump. I saw a ton of him, and I was always impressed. The game that sticks most in my mind is his 200 yards in an OT victory for the Pats against the Jets just after Parcells got to NY (1997; Martin was still on the Pats: http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/199709140nwe.htm .) I guess I don't quite get the dislike for him. The criticisms are vague and unsatisfactory ("teams didn't fear him"; quoting his stats inaccurately -"2-4" ypc). I gather this stems from the fact that this is a Bills forum and between 1998 and 2005 fans would watch 3 or 4 Jets games per year max. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOKBILLS Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Art Monk or Cris Carter never scared anyone either. Michael Irvin, Andre Reed... they did, & are at a whole other level imo. Exactly Bro... One of the things I think is lost in Andre's bid here is how every Defense The Bills ever played HAD to concentrate on taking him out of the Passing Game first and foremost (admittedly they had to deal with Thurman as well...But Andre was clearly the guy you needed to stop vertically)...That just makes what guys like Andre and Irvin did even more impressive...I don't think Carter or Monk brought that same fear whatsoever...I could be wrong, but I just did not see it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 (edited) Exactly Bro... One of the things I think is lost in Andre's bid here is how every Defense The Bills ever played HAD to concentrate on taking him out of the Passing Game first and foremost (admittedly they had to deal with Thurman as well...But Andre was clearly the guy you needed to stop vertically)...That just makes what guys like Andre and Irvin did even more impressive...I don't think Carter or Monk brought that same fear whatsoever...I could be wrong, but I just did not see it... http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/L/LoftJa00.htm Edited February 9, 2012 by dave mcbride Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 (edited) 29 Fumbles, which upon further research of backs with over 10K yards, is the best ever in the history of the NFL. Multiple strong playoff appearances. One 1,700 yard season. 4th all time in yardage. Good enough for Parcells to trade the farm for him because he thought he was the player that could the Jets over the hump. I saw a ton of him, and I was always impressed. The game that sticks most in my mind is his 200 yards in an OT victory for the Pats against the Jets just after Parcells got to NY (1997; Martin was still on the Pats: http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/199709140nwe.htm .) I guess I don't quite get the dislike for him. The criticisms are vague and unsatisfactory ("teams didn't fear him"; quoting his stats inaccurately -"2-4" ypc). I gather this stems from the fact that this is a Bills forum and between 1998 and 2005 fans would watch 3 or 4 Jets games per year max. His highlight reel isnt thrilling but that shouldn't mean he didn't have a great career. There are very few backs I'd draft ahead of him if I knew what the career would be. He was a 5 time allpro including on a superbowl team. He never lost his team a game with dumb mistakes but he certainly won a lot. I love how people are writing off that he could stay healthy as if that's not a huge plus for a back. It also probably reflects that he took better care of his body generally, and as indicated by his lack of fumbles, ran smart and protected himself against big hits. I'm not buying that he needs a unique style or a great 3 minute clip of pigskin porn on YouTube. He was a consistent player that made an impact for a decade. He was a 5 time all pro, rookie of the year, and played in a superbowl. Thousand yards rushing and 1400 from scrimmage for 10 years. 4th all time in yardage. Come on. Edited February 9, 2012 by NoSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbb Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 5 Time All Pros are almost by definition HOFers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramius Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 His highlight reel isnt thrilling but that shouldn't mean he didn't have a great career. There are very few backs I'd draft ahead of him if I knew what the career would be. He was a 5 time allpro including on a superbowl team. He never lost his team a game with dumb mistakes but he certainly won a lot. I love how people are writing off that he could stay healthy as if that's not a huge plus for a back. It also probably reflects that he took better care of his body generally, and as indicated by his lack of fumbles, ran smart and protected himself against big hits. I'm not buying that he needs a unique style or a great 3 minute clip of pigskin porn on YouTube. He was a consistent player that made an impact for a decade. He was a 5 time all pro, rookie of the year, and played in a superbowl. Thousand yards rushing and 1400 from scrimmage for 10 years. 4th all time in yardage. Come on. He has a great career, but the HOF is for the best of the best. Martin most certainyl wasn't among the best fo the best. In the past 15 years (which covers his playing time), one can easily come up with a dozen or more RBs you'd pick before martin if building a team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auburnbillsbacker Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Martin deserved to get in. Reed, Carter, and Brown also deserved to get in. The problem is that only 5 modern players usually make it in per year, so worthy candidates often struggle to get in. It is sad, because all 3 of the wrs mentioned earlier had better careers than Irvin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbb Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Let's hear it for Jack Butler getting in though. St. Bonaventure grad - played with Ted Marchibroda on the last of the Bona teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Question: Should Terrell Davis get in? I certainly think so given that Gale Sayers got in. A short and truly brilliant career should be rewarded, I think. Here are his career stats: 7,607 rushing yards, 65 TDs, and a 4.6 ypc. HOWEVER, on top of that, he did this in 8 postseason games: carries: 204 yards: 1,140 ypc: 5.6 ypg: 142.5 TDs: 12 Super Bowl MVPs: 1 Those are truly spectacular numbers against top competition and with a relatively large sample size. They're unmatched, actually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbb Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Question: Should Terrell Davis get in? I certainly think so given that Gale Sayers got in. A short and truly brilliant career should be rewarded, I think. Here are his career stats: 7,607 rushing yards, 65 TDs, and a 4.6 ypc. HOWEVER, on top of that, he did this in 8 postseason games: carries: 204 yards: 1,140 ypc: 5.6 ypg: 142.5 TDs: 12 Super Bowl MVPs: 1 Those are truly spectacular numbers against top competition and with a relatively large sample size. They're unmatched, actually. Yeah, I think football of all sports should take an injury truncated career into consideration.......Even baseball did it with Kirby Puckett. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 (edited) He has a great career, but the HOF is for the best of the best. Martin most certainyl wasn't among the best fo the best. In the past 15 years (which covers his playing time), one can easily come up with a dozen or more RBs you'd pick before martin if building a team. Agree to disagree. A guy that averaged about 1300 rushing yards, 300 receiving, missed 8 games in 11 years (4 being the career ending injury in December of year 11 - before that he missed 4 games in over 10 seasons.), never fumbled, played well in January, and was both a model citizen and team leader - right near the top of my draft board. Odd that the hall of fame voters think he belongs AND a future hall of fame coach gave a ransom to get him back AND 5 out of 11 seasons he was an allpro (ie best in the league) yet the consensus here is that he's not a noteworthy player. He's good and all but not someone to worry about or build a team around. In fact - you can name a dozen or more better during that time, meaning he was barely average. I wasn't a huge supporter to start but thought he was a good choice. The more I dig the more I'm amazed there's any debate to begin with. Edited February 10, 2012 by NoSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tcali Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 He did not and neither did Brown. I find it real hard believing Tim Brown isn't a first balloter:Let alone not making the top 10. I think he was an unstoppable player.--Just like in the NBA you couldn't stop Adrian Dantley on the drive ...-you couldn't stop Tim Brown on a pass route.-And he generally had crap QBs throwing to him until Rich Gannon came along(and he couldnt throw a deep ball). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tcali Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Yeah, I think football of all sports should take an injury truncated career into consideration.......Even baseball did it with Kirby Puckett. Gayle Sayers,Joe Namath............-and one guy left out who I always felt never got his due---Freeman McNeil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papazoid Posted February 13, 2012 Author Share Posted February 13, 2012 Pro Football Hall of Fame Selection Committee: Arizona Kent Somers, Arizona Republic Atlanta Len Pasquarelli, The Sports Xchange Baltimore Scott Garceau, WMAR-TV Buffalo Mark Gaughan, Buffalo News Carolina Darin Gantt, Rock Hill Herald Chicago Dan Pompei, Chicago Tribune* Cincinnati Joe Reedy, Cincinnati Enquirer Cleveland TBD Dallas Rick Gosselin, Dallas Morning News* Denver Jeff Legwold, Denver Post Detroit Mike O'Hara, The Detroit News Green Bay Cliff Christl, Green Bay Press-Gazette Houston John McClain, Houston Chronicle* Indianapolis Mike Chappell, Indianapolis Star Jacksonville Sam Kouvaris, WJXT-TV Kansas City Bob Gretz, KCFootballReport.com Miami Edwin Pope, Miami Herald Minnesota Mark Craig, The Minneapolis Star-Tribune New England Ron Borges, Boston Herald* New Orleans Pete Finney, Times-Picayune New York (Giants) Bob Glauber, Newsday New York (Jets) Gary Myers, New York Daily News Oakland Frank Cooney, The Sports Xchange Philadelphia Paul Domowitch, Philadelphia Daily News Pittsburgh Ed Bouchette, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette St. Louis Bernie Miklasz, St. Louis Post-Dispatch* San Diego Nick Canepa, San Diego Union Tribune San Francisco Nancy Gay, FoxSports.com Seattle Mike Sando, ESPN.com Tampa Bay Ira Kaufman, Tampa Tribune Tennessee David Climer, The Tennessean Washington David Elfin, WUSA-9 PFWA Darryl Ledbetter, Atlanta Journal-Constitution At Large Howard Balzer, The Sports Xchange At Large Jarrett Bell, USA Today At Large John Clayton, ESPN/ESPN Magazine At Large John Czarnecki, FOXSports.com* At Large Dave Goldberg, AOL Sports/Fanhouse* At Large Peter King, Sports Illustrated At Large Ira Miller, The Sports Xchange* At Large Len Shapiro, Miami Herald* At Large Vito Stellino, Florida Times Union At Large Jim Trotter, Sports Illustrated At Large Charean Williams, Ft. Worth Star Telegram Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Peter King today: k. I'm still waiting for the Andre Reed fans from La Jolla and Albuquerque and Lubbock to harangue me about why he hasn't been elected. It's funny that all the critics so far seem to be from Western New York. http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/peter_king/02/12/eli/2.html I fear that he's right. I don't think he ever gets in. There's not a lot of support for him outside of WNY because his stats aren't as impressive as the two guys he's up against and about ten more guys coming down the pike in the next couple/few years. Just my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpberr Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Peter King today: k. I'm still waiting for the Andre Reed fans from La Jolla and Albuquerque and Lubbock to harangue me about why he hasn't been elected. It's funny that all the critics so far seem to be from Western New York. http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/peter_king/02/12/eli/2.html I fear that he's right. I don't think he ever gets in. There's not a lot of support for him outside of WNY because his stats aren't as impressive as the two guys he's up against and about ten more guys coming down the pike in the next couple/few years. Just my opinion. These guys voted in Chris Doleman. Anything is possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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