Marcell Dareus vs. AJ Green

[Juror#8]

We're 31% (or 26% percent depending on how ambitious you're feeling) of the way into the season. It's a good time to reflect on first round draft pick performance.

 

Not to be too revisionist here, but does anyone wish (even a teeny weeny bit) that we would have drafted AJ Green? I mean, at a minimum, wouldn't it be a wash - in that he would have had an equal offensive impact as Mr. Dareus has had defensively?

 

With that said, how often do truly stud, impactful, game-changing Wide Receivers surface? Once every 3-4 years I'd guess. What about DTs, similarly described? Once a year, me thinks.

 

Watching Calvin Johnson outrun a cover-two last night makes one salivate at the possibility of a big, strong, fast, receiver (he is the only receiver that I have ever seen outrun a cover-two btw). He can almost single-handedly impact the ebb and the flow of any one game (assuming someone is throwing to him).

 

Ultimately, I think Sir Dareus was the best choice, the right pick, and the best fit for this team. What say you?

[Hazed and Amuzed]

We're 31% (or 26% percent depending on how ambitious you're feeling) of the way into the season. It's a good time to reflect on first round draft pick performance.

 

Not to be too revisionist here, but does anyone wish (even a teeny weeny bit) that we would have drafted AJ Green? I mean, at a minimum, wouldn't it be a wash - in that he would have had an equal offensive impact as Mr. Dareus has had defensively?

 

With that said, how often do truly stud, impactful, game-changing Wide Receivers surface? Once every 3-4 years I'd guess. What about DTs, similarly described? Once a year, me thinks.

 

Watching Calvin Johnson outrun a cover-two last night makes one salivate at the possibility of a big, strong, fast, receiver (he is the only receiver that I have ever seen outrun a cover-two btw). He can almost single-handedly impact the ebb and the flow of any one game (assuming someone is throwing to him).

 

Ultimately, I think Sir Dareus was the best choice, the right pick, and the best fit for this team. What say you?

Personally I don't think WR is as important of position that you take it with in the first 10 picks. You start with the lines and QB and build outwards. Just my opinion. We seem to be doing fine with a bunch of 7th round and udfa WRs.

[Gugny]

To assess last year's draft picks 5 weeks into their first season is beyond ridiculous.

[Thoner7]

Nope. The only player I would have picked over Dareus was Fairly. He got his first game action last night and looked pretty good I thought. Fairly was/is more of an up the field penetrator than Dareus, who is more like a diesel truck.

[bills_fan_in_raleigh]

Nope. The only player I would have picked over Dareus was Fairly. He got his first game action last night and looked pretty good I thought. Fairly was/is more of an up the field penetrator than Dareus, who is more like a diesel truck.

personally I like diesel trucks better. This team is being built right firm up the center positions ( guard and center on OL ) and ( NT, MLBs on defense )

[Webster Guy]

Its an interesting thing to consider, especially now that our deepest position is Dline and our weakest is WR. In training camp, our top 6 receivers were Evans, Stevie, Easley, Parrish, Jones, and Nelson.

 

We are down to two and we run a spread offense. We have a backup QB as one of our receivers and two guys that we cut back on the team. (I wonder if Fitz likes throwing to Ruvell Martin or Lee Evans better?)

 

But I still would rather have Dareus. He was the right pick.

Edited October 11, 2011 by Webster Guy

[silvermike]

Based on how Buddy finds star WRs, it seems like we should be reconsidering the Michael Jasper pick.

[Dorkington]

Dareus is an obvious bust, obviously.

[Juror#8]

To assess last year's draft picks 5 weeks into their first season is beyond ridiculous.

 

Really...you feel this way even though both look to be studs. It's not like I'm declaring either a bust after 5 games. Both have been proficient enough and flashed enough situational brillance that we can begin to understand their skill set and it's application to their respective teams.

 

Around draft time, there was a hardy contingent of folks here advocating for Green. Many felt that he was the best player in the draft. I think its interesting to ponder, given how the team has filled out and what Chan's game-day philosophy is, the question: what if we had had went for Green?

 

We're winning by out-scoring opponents and relying on opportunistic take-aways. We're not winning by grinding out games and hoping that the opponent has less yards then us and that that lack of yards translates favorably into lack of scoring opportunities and lack of opponent points.

 

Who best integrates into that style of play?

[bizell]

 

With that said, how often do truly stud, impactful, game-changing Wide Receivers surface? Once every 3-4 years I'd guess. What about DTs, similarly described? Once a year, me thinks.

 

Watching Calvin Johnson outrun a cover-two last night makes one salivate at the possibility of a big, strong, fast, receiver (he is the only receiver that I have ever seen outrun a cover-two btw). He can almost single-handedly impact the ebb and the flow of any one game (assuming someone is throwing to him).

 

Ultimately, I think Sir Dareus was the best choice, the right pick, and the best fit for this team. What say you?

AJ Green is awesome, no doubt, but I think our needs on defense were too glaring to pass a talent like Dareus.

and re: outrunning the cover-two, tillman was supposed to jam/redirect johnson at the line and didn't, giving him a free release (not to take anything away from johnson's prodigal talents)

[Juror#8]

Dareus is an obvious bust, obviously.

 

Yea...because your comment best summarizes my post.

[DrDawkinstein]

No, not in the least.

 

I watched AJ Green his entire college career. I knew how good he'd be. Dareus is still the correct pick there every single time.

 

WRs can be found later in the draft, or even undrafted. Getting TOP TIER talent in the middle of your DL is as important as it gets. Especially for the worst Run D in the league.

 

No to AJ Green.

No to Patrick Peterson.

 

YES MARCEL DAREUS!

[PromoTheRobot]

Some people have highlight-vision. They only see what ESPN shows as a highlight. Otherwise it didn't happen.

 

PTR

[Dorkington]

Yea...because your comment best summarizes my post.

Dareus has made plays.

 

We had WR depth on draft day and up until very recently.

 

Your post is typical hindsight bs.

[Chandemonium]

There was one game a couple weeks back where I wished AJ Green was on the opposite sideline in a blue and white uniform, but I'd still rather have Dareus overall.

[Juror#8]

Nope. The only player I would have picked over Dareus was Fairly. He got his first game action last night and looked pretty good I thought. Fairly was/is more of an up the field penetrator than Dareus, who is more like a diesel truck.

 

Prediction - Fairly will enjoy JaMarcus Russell money and JaMarcus Russell production...translated to DT play of course.

 

Dareus has made plays.

 

We had WR depth on draft day and up until very recently.

 

Your post is typical hindsight bs.

 

No, not "hindsight bs," as you put it; but we are having some fun with revisionist history -that is, if you'll oblige?

[Dorkington]

No, not "hindsight bs," as you put it; but we are having some fun with revisionist history -that is, if you'll oblige?

 

Sorry, I just grow weary of every other post here being "we should have drafted..."

[T master]

We're 31% (or 26% percent depending on how ambitious you're feeling) of the way into the season. It's a good time to reflect on first round draft pick performance.

 

Not to be too revisionist here, but does anyone wish (even a teeny weeny bit) that we would have drafted AJ Green? I mean, at a minimum, wouldn't it be a wash - in that he would have had an equal offensive impact as Mr. Dareus has had defensively?

 

With that said, how often do truly stud, impactful, game-changing Wide Receivers surface? Once every 3-4 years I'd guess. What about DTs, similarly described? Once a year, me thinks.

 

Watching Calvin Johnson outrun a cover-two last night makes one salivate at the possibility of a big, strong, fast, receiver (he is the only receiver that I have ever seen outrun a cover-two btw). He can almost single-handedly impact the ebb and the flow of any one game (assuming someone is throwing to him).

 

Ultimately, I think Sir Dareus was the best choice, the right pick, and the best fit for this team. What say you?

 

AW HELL TO THE NO !! WITH THE WAY OUR D IS PLAYING WE CAN WORRY ABOUT THAT NEXT YEAR AT THE DRAFT IF NEED BE !!!!!!!!!!

 

GO BILLS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Juror#8]

Personally I don't think WR is as important of position that you take it with in the first 10 picks. You start with the lines and QB and build outwards. Just my opinion. We seem to be doing fine with a bunch of 7th round and udfa WRs.

 

I may be in the minority, but if given the choice, I would take Calvin Johnson over Suh if both were in the same draft. Both are monsters and you can't go wrong with either. But I just feel that Johnson impacts a game single-handedly more so than does Suh.

 

In my opinion, impact is impact. However, defense relies more on unit-cohesiveness than does offense. Arguably one great player on defense can be neutralized more so than one great wide receiver on offense. Just ask Andre Johnson.

 

The above hypothetical notwithstanding, I WOULD STILL CHOOSE DAREUS OVER GREEN - all things considered.

 

There was one game a couple weeks back where I wished AJ Green was on the opposite sideline in a blue and white uniform, but I'd still rather have Dareus overall.

 

 

Some people have highlight-vision. They only see what ESPN shows as a highlight. Otherwise it didn't happen.

 

PTR

 

Not sure where you're going with this. Am I the "they," in your statement, and the only thing that they see is AJ Green making catches whereas Dareus has only one sack.

 

If that is what you're saying (and please note the conditional "if"), then you're wrong. Firstly, I think Marcell is better. Secondly, I realize that his impact can never be truly or fully appreciated by looking at the statistical sheet.

 

Dareus' near-sack of Michael Vick, myriad other QB pressures, and run-disrupting capability highlights that proposition quite well.

[Cash]

AJ Green is awesome, no doubt, but I think our needs on defense were too glaring to pass a talent like Dareus.

and re: outrunning the cover-two, tillman was supposed to jam/redirect johnson at the line and didn't, giving him a free release (not to take anything away from johnson's prodigal talents)

 

I'm guessing you meant prodigious, but I really like the idea of a guy with prodigal talents. "If you want to blow through some money, Megatron's your guy!" Come to think of it, Antoine Walker and MC Hammer had some prodigal talents.

 

No, not in the least.

 

I watched AJ Green his entire college career. I knew how good he'd be. Dareus is still the correct pick there every single time.

 

WRs can be found later in the draft, or even undrafted. Getting TOP TIER talent in the middle of your DL is as important as it gets. Especially for the worst Run D in the league.

 

No to AJ Green.

No to Patrick Peterson.

 

YES MARCEL DAREUS!

 

I would've been more or less fine with AJ Green because I viewed him as a blue-chip stud, and on a team that (I thought) was devoid of talent, you can always use a stud at any position. Plus, even with Lee Evans in the fold, I thought we could've used another outside receiver. So Green would've been a fine pick.

 

BUT!

 

Dareus was such a much better pick. A WR can be a crucial piece of success, but he's not a conditional piece - meaning he can't help the team without the O-line & QB. (Look at Steve Smith last year vs. this year.) DE/DTs like Dareus are foundational pieces. I believe that you start with the foundation, then add the skill pieces on top of it (which is why I didn't like the Spiller pick or Brad Smith signing). And on top of that, Dareus perfectly fit our biggest need - run defense - and somewhat fit another strong need in interior pass rushing. Dareus all the way, no hesitation. Only player I would have to maybe move ahead of him on my retroactive board would be Cam Newton.

[DrDawkinstein]

I would've been more or less fine with AJ Green because I viewed him as a blue-chip stud, and on a team that (I thought) was devoid of talent, you can always use a stud at any position. Plus, even with Lee Evans in the fold, I thought we could've used another outside receiver. So Green would've been a fine pick.

 

BUT!

 

Dareus was such a much better pick. A WR can be a crucial piece of success, but he's not a conditional piece - meaning he can't help the team without the O-line & QB. (Look at Steve Smith last year vs. this year.) DE/DTs like Dareus are foundational pieces. I believe that you start with the foundation, then add the skill pieces on top of it (which is why I didn't like the Spiller pick or Brad Smith signing). And on top of that, Dareus perfectly fit our biggest need - run defense - and somewhat fit another strong need in interior pass rushing. Dareus all the way, no hesitation. Only player I would have to maybe move ahead of him on my retroactive board would be Cam Newton.

 

I dont really disagree. My board going into the draft went: Dareus, Newton, Fairly, Green. In that order. So I wouldve been "fine" with the Green pick, but concerned about our D. Of course, the rest of our draft changes then, and Im sure Buddy wouldve addressed it later. But getting that top level DL is crucial to building a team. Agreed, gotta start up front and in the middle, and work your way out!

 

IMO, if it was ME drafting, when in doubt with who to take in the first, I would almost always default to DL or OL early. You can find speedy skills guys later/anywhere.

[Cynical]

We're 31% (or 26% percent depending on how ambitious you're feeling) of the way into the season. It's a good time to reflect on first round draft pick performance.

 

Not to be too revisionist here, but does anyone wish (even a teeny weeny bit) that we would have drafted AJ Green? I mean, at a minimum, wouldn't it be a wash - in that he would have had an equal offensive impact as Mr. Dareus has had defensively?

 

No. No. No. No. No. No. No.

Hell no.

 

And so there is no confusion: NO

 

Given the state of the Bills D at the end of the 2010 season (especially the D-line), picking MD was god damn no brainer.

 

I would have come unglued if they chose AJ. I don't hate AJ, but the continued decision to ignore the lines would have been too much.

[DrDawkinstein]

No. No. No. No. No. No. No.

Hell no.

 

And so there is no confusion: NO

 

 

Weird coming from the Bama guy...

[KD in CA]

To assess last year's draft picks 5 weeks into their first season is beyond ridiculous.

 

+1

 

And almost as ridiculous as suggesting the Bills should have picked a WR over a DL.

[dave mcbride]

FWIW, Gailey apparently loved AJ Green.

[Gugny]

Really...you feel this way even though both look to be studs. It's not like I'm declaring either a bust after 5 games. Both have been proficient enough and flashed enough situational brillance that we can begin to understand their skill set and it's application to their respective teams.

 

Around draft time, there was a hardy contingent of folks here advocating for Green. Many felt that he was the best player in the draft. I think its interesting to ponder, given how the team has filled out and what Chan's game-day philosophy is, the question: what if we had had went for Green?

 

We're winning by out-scoring opponents and relying on opportunistic take-aways. We're not winning by grinding out games and hoping that the opponent has less yards then us and that that lack of yards translates favorably into lack of scoring opportunities and lack of opponent points.

 

Who best integrates into that style of play?

Really. I do feel this way. We're winning because we're scoring more points than our opponents. And drafting a WR when you had the worst run-stopping defense in the league would have been insane. The WRs on our roster have done a stellar job. And Dareus is a beast.

[SouthGeorgiaBillsFan]

WR is the least important position in the NFL. DT is the most important defensive position. Under no circumstances would I ever prefer A.J. Green to Marcell Dareus.

[Hazed and Amuzed]

WR is the least important position in the NFL. DT is the most important defensive position. Under no circumstances would I ever prefer A.J. Green to Marcell Dareus.

 

[Juror#8]

+1

 

And almost as ridiculous as suggesting the Bills should have picked a WR over a DL.

 

See: my post back to Gugny in reply to your "+1" gem.

 

Secondly, since by my count NO ONE yet has suggested that Buddy should have taken AJ Green over Dareus, I guess the only "ridiculous," thing is someone who would assert otherwise.

[D521646]

Speaking of analysts. I haven't heard anything negative about Darius, in fact, everything I've heard from ANYONE worht their salt is nothing but A+ on the Marcel pick for the Bills. He hasn't disappointed at all, and he looks this good as a rookie. What can we expect from this guy as he matures and begins to figure out specific tackles he faces game in and game out?? This guy could be better than Smith, and that's saying something!

 

 

Tim-

[OCinBuffalo]

NO.

I just finished watching every game this season...again. Dareus has had a significant impact: drawing double teams consistently, forcing teams to run away from him, forcing teams to bring in the TE/keep the RB in the pocket for extra protection, basically doing everything a DT/DE is supposed to be doing. And, he's still making plays in spite of teams having to account for him...none bigger than jumping up while, again, double teamed, on Brady and causing the deflection/INT/TD.

Here's my prediction: the Bills have had to respect the running game of every team they have played so far, because all were good if not elite. This week we play the Giants. Their running game sucks. Time for the Bills to tee off on Manning. They don't have to worry about containing the run/mobile QB/pass to the RB/screen game. This time it's all about rushing the passer for 80% of the plays. We will see what we have in our OLBs and DEs. But, most importantly, this is the opportunity for the middle of the line to showcase themselves.

[Juror#8]

Some people have highlight-vision. They only see what ESPN shows as a highlight. Otherwise it didn't happen.

 

PTR

 

Not sure where you're going with this. Am I the "they," in your statement, and the only thing that they see is AJ Green making catches whereas Dareus has only one sack.

 

If that is what you're saying (and please note the conditional "if"), then you're wrong. Firstly, I think Marcell is better. Secondly, I realize that his impact can never be truly or fully appreciated by looking at the statistical sheet.

 

Dareus' near-sack of Michael Vick, myriad other QB pressures, and run-disrupting capability highlights that proposition quite well.

 

Sorry, I just grow weary of every other post here being "we should have drafted..."

 

Understood and I appreciated your response. I was just interested in knowing if anyone felt that there was a better fit now that we're into the season and the rooks have had a chance to play on Sundays a bit.

 

I guess that I should have entitled this "Knowing what you know now, would Dareus still have been your first choice."

[bizell]

I'm guessing you meant prodigious, but I really like the idea of a guy with prodigal talents. "If you want to blow through some money, Megatron's your guy!" Come to think of it, Antoine Walker and MC Hammer had some prodigal talents.

 

 

 

I would've been more or less fine with AJ Green because I viewed him as a blue-chip stud, and on a team that (I thought) was devoid of talent, you can always use a stud at any position. Plus, even with Lee Evans in the fold, I thought we could've used another outside receiver. So Green would've been a fine pick.

 

BUT!

 

Dareus was such a much better pick. A WR can be a crucial piece of success, but he's not a conditional piece - meaning he can't help the team without the O-line & QB. (Look at Steve Smith last year vs. this year.) DE/DTs like Dareus are foundational pieces. I believe that you start with the foundation, then add the skill pieces on top of it (which is why I didn't like the Spiller pick or Brad Smith signing). And on top of that, Dareus perfectly fit our biggest need - run defense - and somewhat fit another strong need in interior pass rushing. Dareus all the way, no hesitation. Only player I would have to maybe move ahead of him on my retroactive board would be Cam Newton.

DOH! Yeah, prodigous is what I meant. My point still stands, incorrect grammar and all.

[Mr. WEO]

Its an interesting thing to consider, especially now that our deepest position is Dline and our weakest is WR. In training camp, our top 6 receivers were Evans, Stevie, Easley, Parrish, Jones, and Nelson.

 

We are down to two and we run a spread offense. We have a backup QB as one of our receivers and two guys that we cut back on the team. (I wonder if Fitz likes throwing to Ruvell Martin or Lee Evans better?)

 

But I still would rather have Dareus. He was the right pick.

good points.

[billsfreak]

At this point, after only 5 games, Green has been the better rookie, and may in the long run too. That said, our run defense was so disgustingly bad last year (it isn't a whole lot better this year so far), that Dareus was the right pick for this team. Not saying Dareus doesn't have a chance to develop into a really good if not great player, but if he stays healthy, Green will be a top 2-3 wide receiver in this league in a year or two. Green is performing at a level for that position that usually takes a couple years for recievers, as it is one of the hardest positions for college players to adjust to, but Dareus has by no means been a bust, just has a way to go. Besides if the Bills would have drafted Green, then Nix probably would have traded Stevie Johnson away during training camp, since you don't want to have too many good receivers.

[DrDawkinstein]

At this point, after only 5 games, Green has been the better rookie, and may in the long run too. That said, our run defense was so disgustingly bad last year (it isn't a whole lot better this year so far),

 

That is where I stopped reading. Really? Not a whole lot better this year?

[Ozymandius]

I'll take the big guy. I'll almost always take the dominant big guy in the trenches.

 

Another consideration is that the Bills are a small market team with a cheap owner. With a limited amount of money, it's better to spend it on the lines and allow Gailey to work his magic with underappreciated receivers.

 

Some teams need to spend big at WR. We are probably an exception.

[BuffaloBill]

Personally I don't think WR is as important of position that you take it with in the first 10 picks. You start with the lines and QB and build outwards. Just my opinion. We seem to be doing fine with a bunch of 7th round and udfa WRs.

 

 

This .... The Bills have amade a gold mine out of straw when it comes to WR's. Dareus was absolutely the right pick.

[Just in Atlanta]

The Bills only pick receivers in the 7th or on waivers.

 

That's our new MO. And I like it.

[billsfreak]

That is where I stopped reading. Really? Not a whole lot better this year?

You can stop reading all you want but in 2010 the Bills opponents averaged 4.8 yards per carry. So far in 2011 the Bills opponents are averaging 5.5 yards per carry. Does that sound like a major improvement to you? I know stats don't tell everything and I think the run defense has improved some (which has exposed our weak pass defense) but be real, our defense hasn't been great with the only exception being turnovers that have kept us in games that otherwise our defense would have lost for us. Anyone who says that our defense has been playing at a playoff level isn't being very honest with themselves and is letting their heart overthink their head.