JoeF Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 Funny part is that your link to Gailey's comments is as big of a sign of a coach crapping his pants about the OL situation as you will probably see in the NFL. It was like "Buddy--get someone in here now" There are three guys I would look at and get in here today (off day): - Flozell Adams - He is old-Dallas gave up on him but he was still serviceable last year in Pittsburgh-one year $2.5M - Max Starks-coming off injury - worth the risk of an incentive heavy 2 year deal -- $3M guaranteed with escalators that could double the total contract value to $6M - McKinney-call Rosenhaus today and tell him that McKinney will get a $500K bonus to sign today -- but by cut down if his conditioning is in check he will get $3M guaranteed or if not he is cut...This exceeds Drew's demand but puts the responsibility on the player to get in shape by the end of the preseason We need a vet NOW... Listen to the coach.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dollars 2 donuts Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 (edited) Sure, Bell had a big injury earlier, but dang I am getting tired of how many times this guy gets "dinged" in practice. I mean seriously he is more often injured/hurt than any Bill in recent memory. EDIT: Still hope he rights the ship soon enough so he gets at least a short multi-year multimillion dollar contract and sticks it in his wayward father's face. Edited August 9, 2011 by dollars 2 donuts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PDaDdy Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 If they had the quality they wouldn't need the quantity. The team has ignored the tackle position unless you consider street FAs and low level draft picks as the ultimate solution. Right now we don't have top notch quality at either position and the back-ups are inferior to the starters. Are you comfortable with that situation? Conrad Dobler was washed up. Hell no!!! We need starters not projects that might not ever pan out. I was in favor of paying Probowl Peters market value for his services so I didn't drink the Kool Aide 1 Bills Drive was selling that Peters wasn't worth it and we already had his replacement on the roster. Well, 2, 3 years later we are still waiting for that replacement to develop. I for one don't consider Bell serviceable. To this point in his career he is a back up at best. The bottom line is that our O-line is looking like it could be the worst in the league, Bell or not. Wood and Levitre, are starter quality, but the rest of the group is just a big mix of cross your fingers and pray. And that's if everyone is healthy. Fitzpatrick must be shaking in his boots over the pounding he will take this year. At the very least we should bring someone in to compete, even an old fat one. We need QUALITY starters, but depth at a minimum. The patriots have loaded up on old, but top level pass rushers. The Jets defense is blitz happy...Our rag tag group of young, struggling players is not going to cut it... I pray for Fitz's health....and I don't pray. Funny part is that your link to Gailey's comments is as big of a sign of a coach crapping his pants about the OL situation as you will probably see in the NFL. DUDE! I thought that as well. IMO it's also an indictment of the front office for not having ANY depth at the position much less an NFL caliber starter when healthy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EasternOHBillsFan Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 Our OT situation is in a really really sad state and it has been for a while. Time to admit that we shouldn't have cut Peters and Walker because whether you liked them or not they were far and away better than what we have now. It's probably too late now but Ralph should have opened the coffers and gotten a couple play off caliber OTs instead of the failing projects we currently have. Peters has been just as hurt as Bell has been, and he costs MUCH more!!!! Come on, no smoke and mirrors... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 What we need, if we cannot get a quality starter, and I don't really see one out there right now, is a veteran swing tackle that can play both sides in a pinch, and maybe Flozell is that guy. It would obviously be a stopgap but another problem exists if we keep this line as is. We need to see if Fitz is our guy or not for the foreseeable future and it will be awful tough to really know that if he is getting killed. Gailey needs to show progress in his stature as a coach in year two (although right now I do believe he is the man for the job). Roscoe is in the last year. Stevie is in his contract year and we need to know if he is a 5-6-7-8-9-or10 mil a year player. We need to rebuild CJ's confidence to get the most out of him. We need to see which of the many young WR could be the real deal. Granted, every year there are questions like that, but this seems to be an important year, especially considering Fitz. Last year he was great at masking glaring weaknesses but it can only take him and us so far. I think Bell can and will be fine. Not great but will not get us killed, unless he goes down. Pears is a total question mark, as is, obviously, Urbik. The starters have some size, and some talent. It's possible they could be decent as a group. But that's barring injury and injuries are going to happen. Hangartner can be a back-up guard, or play C and have Wood back at guard. The tackles are a nightmare. I think we should have overpaid for Clabo. But the problem with bringing in a vet is he will take the place of a guy they want to develop. So one vet is probably the max. But we need one bad. There is a decent chance that on the eve of the season, in the final cuts, a veteran tackle will be cut that needs a job and paycheck and we can sign him to be insurance. That would be ideal. I have no problems right now with bringing in a Gaither or McKinnie just to have our doctors look at them and team work them out to see what kind of shape they are in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickelCity Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 - Flozell Adams - He is old-Dallas gave up on him but he was still serviceable last year in Pittsburgh-one year $2.5M - Max Starks-coming off injury - worth the risk of an incentive heavy 2 year deal -- $3M guaranteed with escalators that could double the total contract value to $6M - McKinney-call Rosenhaus today and tell him that McKinney will get a $500K bonus to sign today -- but by cut down if his conditioning is in check he will get $3M guaranteed or if not he is cut...This exceeds Drew's demand but puts the responsibility on the player to get in shape by the end of the preseason This. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 (edited) Funny part is that your link to Gailey's comments is as big of a sign of a coach crapping his pants about the OL situation as you will probably see in the NFL. Maybe he should have mentioned something before the draft. Did a seemingly minor injury to Bell make him suddenly realise that we are weak at OT? Everybody else seemed to know. Edited August 9, 2011 by Bill from NYC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmsmystic Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 It's possible we are all overreacting to this OT situation that has helped cripple our team for years. All we need to do is run a no huddle offense! Yeah, that should work right? DJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOBILLS78 Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 We go nowhere without quality tackles. End of story. Yup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PS 56 Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 but but but ....Just give our guys more time to develop!....Wait to see what happens when player X is not coming back from injury this off season...so and so is serviceable and still learning. Our OT situation is in a really really sad state and it has been for a while. Time to admit that we shouldn't have cut Peters and Walker because whether you liked them or not they were far and away better than what we have now. It's probably too late now but Ralph should have opened the coffers and gotten a couple play off caliber OTs instead of the failing projects we currently have. Walker, maybe. Peters? No way. Over rated and over paid. Just ask anyone in Philly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inkman Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 We go nowhere without quality tackles. End of story. In other words or in this case your exact words, we go nowhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 I'll be dumbfounded if we don't add an OT with some starting exp. A one year deal would be ideal. Our coaches know our OT depth is terrible. It would actually be laughable if we don't sign SOMEONE. Either buddy or ralph, whoever is the one behind not pulling the trigger, has a serious issue (yeah I know) if we don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PDaDdy Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 Peters has been just as hurt as Bell has been, and he costs MUCH more!!!! Come on, no smoke and mirrors... One is a probowler and the other one is not an NFL caliber LT. Last 2 seasons: Peters 28 games. Bell 24 games. What we need, if we cannot get a quality starter, and I don't really see one out there right now, is a veteran swing tackle that can play both sides in a pinch, and maybe Flozell is that guy. It would obviously be a stopgap but another problem exists if we keep this line as is. We need to see if Fitz is our guy or not for the foreseeable future and it will be awful tough to really know that if he is getting killed. Gailey needs to show progress in his stature as a coach in year two (although right now I do believe he is the man for the job). Roscoe is in the last year. Stevie is in his contract year and we need to know if he is a 5-6-7-8-9-or10 mil a year player. We need to rebuild CJ's confidence to get the most out of him. We need to see which of the many young WR could be the real deal. Granted, every year there are questions like that, but this seems to be an important year, especially considering Fitz. Last year he was great at masking glaring weaknesses but it can only take him and us so far. I think Bell can and will be fine. Not great but will not get us killed, unless he goes down. Pears is a total question mark, as is, obviously, Urbik. The starters have some size, and some talent. It's possible they could be decent as a group. But that's barring injury and injuries are going to happen. Hangartner can be a back-up guard, or play C and have Wood back at guard. The tackles are a nightmare. I think we should have overpaid for Clabo. But the problem with bringing in a vet is he will take the place of a guy they want to develop. So one vet is probably the max. But we need one bad. There is a decent chance that on the eve of the season, in the final cuts, a veteran tackle will be cut that needs a job and paycheck and we can sign him to be insurance. That would be ideal. I have no problems right now with bringing in a Gaither or McKinnie just to have our doctors look at them and team work them out to see what kind of shape they are in. Right on. The most important thing about this post is how poor tackle play might affect our ability to evaluate the other players on offense we have. Some of us already know we need to get rid of all the quantity and get some quality at LT. Not being able to see some of the players you mentioned perform in conditions that allow their talents to shine could be the real issue. Walker, maybe. Peters? No way. Over rated and over paid. Just ask anyone in Philly. Ya just ask the players, coaches and scouts that voted him into the probowl. What the hell do they know? I would definitely trust some internet forum blowhards over the guys that actually know and play the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SageAgainstTheMachine Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 http://footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol Take a look at the second table. The Bills ranked #1 in the NFL running in the Left Tackle direction. I think Demetrius Bell is the long term answer at LT if he can stay healthy like last season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PDaDdy Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 (edited) http://footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol Take a look at the second table. The Bills ranked #1 in the NFL running in the Left Tackle direction. I think Demetrius Bell is the long term answer at LT if he can stay healthy like last season. Did you also see that Buffalo is tied for second to last for combined percentage of runs to the left? We also have the highest percentage of attempts up the middle. If we are that good running to the left as your stat would seem to suggest why do we only run that way a very small margin of the time and mostly try to pound it between the guards? I also wonder do these stats take into consideration runs that were supposed to initially go somewhere else. Does a failed attempt up the middle and an unexpected cutback to the left for positive yards count as a successful attempt to run left bolstering stats? Does a failed run to the left and a cutback to the middle or the right still count as a successful attempt to the left? I do love stats but you have to know how they were acquired and have to be able to intelligently interpret them. Edited August 9, 2011 by PDaDdy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SageAgainstTheMachine Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 (edited) Did you also see that Buffalo is tied for second to last for percentage of runs to the left side? If we are that good running to the left as your stat would seem to suggest why do we only run that way a very small margin of the time? I also wonder do these stats take into consideration runs that were supposed to go to the left but Fred Jackson cut back as he often does to go to the other side because there was no hole on the left? How does this figure in? Is that considered a failed run to the left because it started out that way or is it a failed or successful run to the right depending on outcome? I'm pretty certain that would be considered a run to the left. 65% of the Bills rushes were up the middle or to the guards...I would guess because Jackson is primarily a vertical rusher? Edited August 9, 2011 by SageAgainstTheMachine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billsguy Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 We go nowhere without quality tackles. End of story. Finally, I find someone on this board who is wise enough to take off the rose colored glasses and state the truth. I wish the Bills management and coaches would stop rationalizing this blatant weakness. The Bills offensive line is seriously sub-par. It is a fatal flaw if you don't have quality tackles. Therefore, the Bills are far far away from being contenders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PDaDdy Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 I'm pretty certain that would be considered a run to the left. 65% of the Bills rushes were up the middle or to the guards...I would guess because Jackson is primarily a vertical rusher? No disrespect but I would like to hear or see that stat collectors answer to that question. Without that we can't be certain whether they do or don't count. If you are correct though and a run that starts to the left but has to be cut back to the middle or right for positive yardage due to no hole on the left then the stats will be all screwed up. It won't give an accurate reflection of yardage actually gained by attempting to and actually successfully running to the left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 Did I miss someting? Did Bells diagnosis go from "Days" to "Season"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PDaDdy Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 Did I miss someting? Did Bells diagnosis go from "Days" to "Season"? Nope but his talent evaluation hasn't gone from practice squad to NFL starter either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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