UFO Found on Ocean Floor?

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

9 minutes ago, 4merper4mer said:

I didn't protest any math.  I used it.  You've used unfounded mockery thus far.

Neither did I protest the math.  Just the inevitability of thinking my charm could outwit both the mathematical certainties and the previous generation’s reaction to my underachieving.  By the way, do you ever smile?  ?

*

?

[Hedge]

 

On 2/21/2015 at 1:10 PM, 4merper4mer said:

 

 

I can explain this better I think.

 

Supposedly the universe has a staggering amount of intelligent life. Too high a number to comprehend....

 

The universe has been around for billions of years......too high a number to comprehend......

 

So innumerable societies have developed for what is a near infinity and plausibly developed countless methods of exploration and communication......by sheer number alone some would seek out any life it could find....some would hide and some would do something in between. Out of all the explorer types out there....still a number too high to comprehend.....we have confirmed contact exactly zero times....and they have had billions of years to send their messages, probes, ships or morse code.

 

So how much more time is needed? Infinity plus one? How many more planets have to be discovered to extrapolate the supposed quantity of societies? How much more need be known about the universe? None. Because the math has already been done. There is nothing and nobody out there trying to communicate which essentially means there is nothing and nobody out there....period.

 

Understand now? It's just math.

 

?

Is this the "math" you are referring to? (from page 19 btw)

 

[Foxx]

1 minute ago, Hedge said:

 

 

?

Is this the "math" you are referring to? (from page 19 btw)

 

now you know why I did not go in search of it.

 

[4merper4mer]

4 minutes ago, Foxx said:

now you know why I did not go in search of it.

 

Pretty much the same math I used:

 

 

 

[Foxx]

26 minutes ago, 4merper4mer said:

Pretty much the same math I used:

 

 

 

lol, did you even listen to what he said? his very first sentence...  "well, we can't rule out that they may be out there..." did you block that out or just ignore it completely? he later goes on to say that they can't be ruled out completely. the rest of the, 'maths' are purely suppositions based upon..... conjecture. i am truly sorry but this is not maths, though you may want it to be.

 

i generally like what Kurzweil has to say but again, this is not maths. wow. i'll leave you be to continue along in your stupor. best wishes.

[K-9]

Was it Woody Allen who said that some inter-galactic alien civilizations might be as much as 20 seconds more advanced than us?

[4merper4mer]

1 minute ago, Foxx said:

lol, did you even listen to what he said? his very first sentence...  "well, we can't rule out that they may be out there..." did you block that out or just ignore it completely? he later goes on to say that they can't be ruled out completely. the rest of the, 'maths' are purely suppositions based upon..... conjecture. i am truly sorry but this is not maths, though you may want it to be.

 

i generally like what Kurzweil has to say but again, this is not maths. wow. i'll leave you be to continue along in your stupor. best wishes.

You are a true believer.  Of course things can't totally be ruled out but to say what he used wasn't math is simply denial.  The overall point is we are never going to find them because we haven't already.  And you left out the part where Kurzweil in fact thinks we're alone.

[Patrick Duffy]

3 hours ago, 4merper4mer said:

Shirley.

 

Redefining intelligent is a desperation heave.  We're talking about being intelligent enough to send signals into space.  Whales or Dolphins don't cut it and Canadians count as human.

It's not closed minded.  It's math.

You rmath is b.s Show me this math you speak of, I went back and looked and only saw your post of "any update on this", and your non sense saying "it's math". Only thing I saw and a bunch of other people debating your silliness.

 

How bout it's not proven because it's science. See how that works. The "math"you speak of doen't prove *****. Get over it.

26 minutes ago, 4merper4mer said:

You are a true believer.  Of course things can't totally be ruled out but to say what he used wasn't math is simply denial.  The overall point is we are never going to find them because we haven't already.  And you left out the part where Kurzweil in fact thinks we're alone.

Wow, you don't know *****, nor do I on whether or not there's intelligent life out there.Your really making yourself look kinda silly here. It's quite comical.

Edited July 6, 2019 by Patrick_Duffy

[Patrick Duffy]

1 hour ago, 4merper4mer said:

Pretty much the same math I used:

 

Lol, just lol.

 

 

39 minutes ago, Foxx said:

lol, did you even listen to what he said? his very first sentence...  "well, we can't rule out that they may be out there..." did you block that out or just ignore it completely? he later goes on to say that they can't be ruled out completely. the rest of the, 'maths' are purely suppositions based upon..... conjecture. i am truly sorry but this is not maths, though you may want it to be.

 

i generally like what Kurzweil has to say but again, this is not maths. wow. i'll leave you be to continue along in your stupor. best wishes.

Lol, no he didn't. Guy is something else,

Edited July 6, 2019 by Patrick_Duffy

[4merper4mer]

Keep believing Trekkies.  But ignore that Spock dude who stresses logic.

[Foxx]

52 minutes ago, 4merper4mer said:

You are a true believer.  Of course things can't totally be ruled out but to say what he used wasn't math is simply denial.  The overall point is we are never going to find them because we haven't already.  And you left out the part where Kurzweil in fact thinks we're alone.

umm. no. again, do you just miss the obvious? because i proved your maths wrong, that makes me a true believer?

 

i have never seen an alien, so i can not say for certain that they exist. however, a negative does not prove, nor disprove a positive (and that is verifiable math, look it up). as such, i reside myself to the possibility that they exist.

 

taking simple maths (again, verifiable), the odds of an intelligent life form from another planet existing, is off the charts. in just our galaxy alone, we have about, 200 billion suns. taking data from the Keplar Observatory, in 2013 it was determined that there could be 40 million planets orbiting in what is considered a 'habitable zone'. if only a minuscule percentage of them developed life and if only a minuscule percentage of those developed intelligent life and if only a minuscule percentage of those developed opposable thumbs, well... there would still be literally thousands of chances.

 

now take those numbers and reduce them even further and consider how many galaxies there are in the known universe and you should come away with astronomical chances.

 

not wanting to blow your mind completely here but there is another item to consider that @K-9 brought up. what if some aliens exist 20 seconds into the future? you would not know they were there because you can't barely sense the next moment. we won't even get into frequencies.

 

you can choose to believe whatever you like, i certainly won't stop you. however, please don't try to stop me in my beliefs that there exists something more than myself. i don't believe the Earth is flat, nor do i believe we have even yet begun to understand that we have not even seen the tip of the iceberg yet.

[/dev/null]

49 minutes ago, Patrick_Duffy said:

You rmath is b.s Show me this math you speak of, I went back and looked and only saw your post of "any update on this", and your non sense saying "it's math". Only thing I saw and a bunch of other people debating your silliness.

 

So think back to high school physics.

f=ma.  Force equals mass times acceleration

 

But that only works in a vacuum.  After the basic principle is taught, students are taught to factor in a coefficient for friction, wind resistance, electrical resistance in a conductor, etc

 

Your mathematical philosophy has neglected one of the most crucial factors of our modern world...

 

 

The Troll factor

 

57 minutes ago, Patrick_Duffy said:

Your really making yourself look kinda silly here.

 

You sure about that hoss? ?

 

57 minutes ago, Patrick_Duffy said:

It's quite comical.

 

Yeah, it has been

 

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

2 hours ago, 4merper4mer said:

Whether exhilarating or disappointing, the results of logic are always instructive.  Try using it and listening to it some time soon.

It’s my logic to be illogical.  (Thank you, Stephen Kandel and David Gerrold.)

[4merper4mer]

7 minutes ago, Foxx said:

umm. no. again, do you just miss the obvious? because i proved your maths wrong, that makes me a true believer?

 

i have never seen an alien, so i can not say for certain that they exist. however, a negative does not prove, nor disprove a positive (and that is verifiable math, look it up). as such, i reside myself to the possibility that they exist.

 

taking simple maths (again, verifiable), the odds of an intelligent life form from another planet existing, is off the charts. in just our galaxy alone, we have about, 200 billion suns. taking data from the Keplar Observatory, in 2013 it was determined that there could be 40 million planets orbiting in what is considered a 'habitable zone'. if only a minuscule percentage of them developed life and if only a minuscule percentage of those developed intelligent life and if only a minuscule percentage of those developed opposable thumbs, well... there would still be literally thousands of chances.

 

now take those numbers and reduce them even further and consider how many galaxies there are in the known universe and you should come away with astronomical chances.

 

not wanting to blow your mind completely here but there is another item to consider that @K-9 brought up. what if some aliens exist 20 seconds into the future? you would not know they were there because you can't barely sense the next moment. we won't even get into frequencies.

 

you can choose to believe whatever you like, i certainly won't stop you. however, please don't try to stop me in my beliefs that there exists something more than myself. i don't believe the Earth is flat, nor do i believe we have even yet begun to understand that we have not even seen the tip of the iceberg yet.

You need to keep reading the earlier parts of this thread because you are using sitcom math to make your point when in reality it refutes your point.  

 

How many planets have been found in the habitable zones that do not have at least one giant disqualifier for being truly earth like?  That number is zero.  What is zero times 100 baziliondy trillion?

 

You are correct that there are likely vastly more which are undiscovered.  Establishing the rarity of Earth is currently an impossible task but something called the rare Earth hypothesis explains that the rarity of Earth is very likely a mirror image to the enormity of the number of planets out there.  Couple that with the complete lack of any detected signal, add a pinch of Occum's Shaver and you have a recipe for the most likely reality.

[Foxx]

23 minutes ago, 4merper4mer said:

You need to keep reading the earlier parts of this thread because you are using sitcom math to make your point when in reality it refutes your point.  

 

How many planets have been found in the habitable zones that do not have at least one giant disqualifier for being truly earth like?  That number is zero.  What is zero times 100 baziliondy trillion?

 

You are correct that there are likely vastly more which are undiscovered.  Establishing the rarity of Earth is currently an impossible task but something called the rare Earth hypothesis explains that the rarity of Earth is very likely a mirror image to the enormity of the number of planets out there.  Couple that with the complete lack of any detected signal, add a pinch of Occum's Shaver and you have a recipe for the most likely reality.

sure. nothing to see here. carry on wayward son.

[4merper4mer]

19 minutes ago, Foxx said:

sure. nothing to see here. carry on wayward son.

Keep that mind closed and keep focusing on denominators and ignoring numerators.

[Foxx]

5 minutes ago, 4merper4mer said:

Keep that mind closed and keep focusing on denominators and ignoring numerators.

lol. said the pot....

[4merper4mer]

11 minutes ago, Foxx said:

lol. said the pot....

I acknowledge all parts of the equation, not just the ones that fit my "belief".

Edited July 6, 2019 by 4merper4mer

[Foxx]

22 minutes ago, 4merper4mer said:

I acknowledge all parts of the equation, not just the ones that fit my "belief".

ahh but you don't.

[K-9]

1 hour ago, Foxx said:

not wanting to blow your mind completely here but there is another item to consider that @K-9 brought up. what if some aliens exist 20 seconds into the future? you would not know they were there because you can't barely sense the next moment. we won't even get into frequencies.

I should probably clarify that I didn’t mean it in that context but in the context of them being 20 seconds more advanced technologically. When we consider the space time continuum, 20 seconds can be an eternity. 

[Foxx]

2 minutes ago, K-9 said:

I should probably clarify that I didn’t mean it in that context but in the context of them being 20 seconds more advanced technologically. When we consider the space time continuum, 20 seconds can be an eternity. 

yep, that too. no worries though, the former performer won't get either. 

Edited July 6, 2019 by Foxx

[Patrick Duffy]

1 hour ago, /dev/null said:

 

So think back to high school physics.

f=ma.  Force equals mass times acceleration

 

But that only works in a vacuum.  After the basic principle is taught, students are taught to factor in a coefficient for friction, wind resistance, electrical resistance in a conductor, etc

 

Your mathematical philosophy has neglected one of the most crucial factors of our modern world...

 

 

The Troll factor

 

 

You sure about that hoss? ?

 

 

Yeah, it has been

 

Yup, very sure. And this is even better. I'm loving every bit of this. ?

[/dev/null]

18 minutes ago, K-9 said:

I should probably clarify that I didn’t mean it in that context but in the context of them being 20 seconds more advanced technologically. When we consider the space time continuum, 20 seconds can be an eternity. 

 

And if you're ever seen Futureman, you know how much damage a mere 11 seconds can do to the Universe

[K-9]

13 minutes ago, Foxx said:

yep, that too. no worries though, the former performer won't get either. 

My post was a joke and I think he got it. 

 

In terms of the actual discussion, I’m more inclined to believe the skeptics as I share their doubt that alien civilizations exist and have visited us. There is simply no empirical evidence that I’m aware of. Thousands of conspiracy and other theories, but nothing substantive. 

 

As vast as the universe is and as plentiful as the the matter is that occupies it, it’s mostly full of space. Infinitely more nothing than something. 

4 minutes ago, /dev/null said:

 

And if you're ever seen Futureman, you know how much damage a mere 11 seconds can do to the Universe

Never saw it. I’ll have to check it out. And yeah, 11 seconds is a lifetime, relatively.

[Foxx]

14 minutes ago, K-9 said:

My post was a joke and I think he got it. 

 

In terms of the actual discussion, I’m more inclined to believe the skeptics as I share their doubt that alien civilizations exist and have visited us. There is simply no empirical evidence that I’m aware of. Thousands of conspiracy and other theories, but nothing substantive. 

 

As vast as the universe is and as plentiful as the the matter is that occupies it, it’s mostly full of space. Infinitely more nothing than something. ...

 

i agree, no empirical evidence. however, there would seem to be a ton of circumstantial evidence littered all throughout recorded history. ancient man saw something they recorded in stone. what exactly, is up for debate.

Edited July 6, 2019 by Foxx

[Augie]

38 minutes ago, Patrick_Duffy said:

Yup, very sure. And this is even better. I'm loving every bit of this. ?

 

I consider this to be fine entertainment!

 

 

The universe is kind of a big place. I have yet to see all of it, so it’s hard to tell what might be out there. 

[Patrick Duffy]

25 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

I consider this to be fine entertainment!

 

 

The universe is kind of a big place. I have yet to see all of it, so it’s hard to tell what might be out there. 

 

Exactly. It's so big our minds can't even wrap around everything about it. One can imagine, but that simply still would not be enough. That was exactly my point though, there is no proof one way or other but maybe one day there will be. I certainly think it's at least possible that other intelligent life is somewhere out there.

 

Also as I said in a earlier post, humans also didn't exist, until one day we did.

[4merper4mer]

45 minutes ago, Foxx said:

i agree, no empirical evidence. however, there would seem to be a ton of circumstantial evidence littered all throughout recorded history. ancient man saw something they recorded in stone. what exactly, is up for debate.

Lol a cave man drew something.  11 seconds is an eternity and yet staring at the heavens via SETI and other boondoggles has yielded in 40 years.  

 

Next up : 40 years is nothing even though 11 seconds is eternity.  That should be another mathematical hoot.

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

1 minute ago, 4merper4mer said:

Next up : 40 years is nothing even though 11 seconds is eternity.  That should be another mathematical hoot.

I’ve got it!  You’re Sheldon Cooper!

[Patrick Duffy]

Just now, Ridgewaycynic2013 said:

I’ve got it!  You’re Sheldon Cooper!

Don't insult Dr. Sheldon Cooper like that bro. lol

[Augie]

3 minutes ago, Patrick_Duffy said:

 

Exactly. It's so big our minds can't even wrap around everything about it. One can imagine, but that simply still would not be enough. That was exactly my point though, there is no proof one way or other but maybe one day there will be. I certainly think it's at least possible that other intelligent life is somewhere out there.

 

Also as I said in a earlier post, humans also didn't exist, until one day we did.

 

I will not make the mistake of a certain religious organization that was set on believing we were at the center of the universe, and imprisoned you if you disagreed. That is the height of arrogance....and ignorance. 

 

I’m not a mathy guy, but if you listen to people who are you might hear about quantum mechanics and string theory. They suggest there may be 7-11 dimensions, maybe more. I don’t know much more than the chipmunk that just ran through my backyard. To think that we are the only “intelligent life” to pop up in almost 14 BILLION years seems a little self-important to me. I’m not saying it’s there, or that they make house calls, but to swear it doesn’t exist is baffling to me. 

[Patrick Duffy]

1 minute ago, Augie said:

 

I will not make the mistake of a certain religious organization that was set on believing we were at the center of the universe, and imprisoned you if you disagreed. That is the height of arrogance....and ignorance. 

 

I’m not a mathy guy, but if you listen to people who are you might hear about quantum mechanics and string theory. They suggest there may be 7-11 dimensions, maybe more. I don’t know much more than the chipmunk that just ran through my backyard. To think that we are the only “intelligent life” to pop up in almost 14 BILLION years seems a little self-important to me. I’m not saying it’s there, or that they make house calls, but to swear it doesn’t exist is baffling to me. 

 

100% agreed with all this.

[K-9]

1 hour ago, Foxx said:

i agree, no empirical evidence. however, there would seem to be a ton of circumstantial evidence littered all throughout recorded history. ancient man saw something they recorded in stone. what exactly, is up for debate.

I’m skeptical of the circumstantial evidence as well. This archeological phenomenon is not universally accepted in the field and much further study is required and ongoing. 

 

I also don’t believe that our ancient relatives only drew images of what they saw. I believe they had imagination as we have today. We tend to not give credit to their ingenuity and technical abilities as well. 

 

So many UFO claims have been debunked over the years so I think my skepticism is warranted. I was really hoping that the purported photographs from the late 40s of the Area 51 alien would prove true as they had the UFO believers thinking that finally they found their smoking gun. Turns out it was the mummified body of a two year old boy from an ancient Southwest US Indian community that was on display at a museum in the region when the photos were taken. 

 

But I remain open to the possibility, no matter how slim.

[4merper4mer]

1 hour ago, Ridgewaycynic2013 said:

I’ve got it!  You’re Sheldon Cooper!

Sheldon is a proponent of Drake's equation which is why I call it sitcom math.  

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

1 minute ago, 4merper4mer said:

Sheldon is a proponent of Drake's equation which is why I call it sitcom math.  

You’re Sheldon’s mother!!!  (Nice ploy leaving out all Christian spiritual references!  ?)

[4merper4mer]

1 hour ago, Augie said:

 

I will not make the mistake of a certain religious organization that was set on believing we were at the center of the universe, and imprisoned you if you disagreed. That is the height of arrogance....and ignorance. 

 

I’m not a mathy guy, but if you listen to people who are you might hear about quantum mechanics and string theory. They suggest there may be 7-11 dimensions, maybe more. I don’t know much more than the chipmunk that just ran through my backyard. To think that we are the only “intelligent life” to pop up in almost 14 BILLION years seems a little self-important to me. I’m not saying it’s there, or that they make house calls, but to swear it doesn’t exist is baffling to me. 

Religion has zero to do with this.  It is easy to believe both God and aliens are real, only one of them is real or that neither is real.

 

You make a good point about the possibility of other dimensions but that isn't what I mean when discussing aliens,. I mean aliens from our known universe.

 

It is far from self important to look at facts rather than hope or supposition.  The fact is that we have been listening for signals for decades.  We've detected information from billions of years ago, millions of years ago, thousands of years ago, hundreds of years ago and from present day.  We've done so while looking in every direction.  We have gathered an incredible amount of data and zero bytes of that data indicate anything alien in origin.  

 

The point isn't that we can ever know that something doesn't exist.  We can't. But if the universe was teeming with life we would know by now even using our relatively crude technology.  We would have known within minutes of detecting our first signals from space.  That is math, not self importance.  The more we listen and the less we hear, the more likely it is that we're alone. Every minute that goes by without detecting anything proves over and over again the extreme rarity of intelligent life out there.

 

It is very clear that the existence of intelligent life in any given place is like hitting the lottery.  And we hit it.  This isn't like the Powerball though.  Think of having to hit the right 100 numbers and the Powerball from a pool of a trillion numbers,. It appears to be something like that.

19 minutes ago, Ridgewaycynic2013 said:

You’re Sheldon’s mother!!!  (Nice ploy leaving out all Christian spiritual references!  ?)

Sorry.  I only saw about 5 episodes of the show and one had Drake's equation in it.  None of them had his mother.

Edited July 6, 2019 by 4merper4mer

[Augie]

3 minutes ago, 4merper4mer said:

Religion has zero to do with this.  It is easy to believe both God and aliens are real, only one of them is real or that neither is real.

 

You make a good point about the possibility of other dimensions but that isn't what I mean when discussing aliens,. I mean aliens from our known universe.

 

It is far from self important to look at facts rather than hope or supposition.  The fact is that we have been listening for signals for decades.  We've detected information from billions of years ago, millions of years ago, thousands of years ago, hundreds of years ago and from present day.  We've done so while looking in every direction.  We have gathered an incredible amount of data and zero bytes of that data indicate anything alien in origin.  

 

The point isn't that we can ever know that something doesn't exist.  We can't. But if the universe was teeming with life we would know by now even using our relatively crude technology.  We would have known within minutes of detecting our first signals from space.  That is math, not self importance.  The more we listen and the less we hear, the more likely it is that we're alone. Every minute that goes by with detecting anything proves over and over again the extreme rarity of intelligent life out there.

 

It is very clear that the existence of intelligent life in any given place is like hitting the lottery.  And we hit it.  This isn't like the Powerball though.  Think of having to hit the right 100 numbers and the Powerball from a pool of a trillion numbers,. It appears to be something like that.

 

I am but a chipmunk who thinks we have examined one grain of sand on one beach on earth.

 

I think that if any civilization, be it a billion, or even one hundred year ahead of us did not want us to know about them, we would not. I also think that the stories of beings able to travel the universe, but then crashing all over our planet like a bunch of drunken teenagers who stole their parents car is silly. 

 

To each their own.  

 

[4merper4mer]

9 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

I am but a chipmunk who thinks we have examined one grain of sand on one beach on earth.

 

I think that if any civilization, be it a billion, or even one hundred year ahead of us did not want us to know about them, we would not. I also think that the stories of beings able to travel the universe, but then crashing all over our planet like a bunch of drunken teenagers who stole their parents car is silly. 

 

To each their own.  

 

A civilization couldn't conceivably block our view unless it caught up to its own previous unblocked signals floating through space.  This seems conceivable but not with anything we currently know.  Granted they'd know more.

 

But if the universe is teeming with life wouldn't some want to block signals, some not care and sone actively want to send signals?  Still crickets.  Actually not even crickets.

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

23 minutes ago, 4merper4mer said:

Sorry.  I only saw about 5 episodes of the show and one had Drake's equation in it.  None of them had his mother.

Excellent, consistent strategy.  Deny.  Deny.  Deny.

*

So, what does the inside of an alien spacecraft look like?

[4merper4mer]

Just now, Ridgewaycynic2013 said:

Excellent, consistent strategy.  Deny.  Deny.  Deny.

*

So, what does the inside of an alien spacecraft look like?

What are you even talking about?