In-A-Gadda-Levitre Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 talks between the owners and players union have collapsed The owners walked away from the negotiating table on Wednesday when the players proposed to take an average of 50 percent of all revenue generated by the league, ESPN.com said, citing player sources. ESPN also noted that the owners proposed a new rookie wage scale, seemingly rejected by the NFLPA's Smith... Smith also sent a memo, obtained by ESPN, to NFL agents on Thursday outlining the owners' latest rookie wage-scale proposal in January. He detailed how far apart the two sides are, saying the NFL's latest proposal "is a veteran scale, not a rookie scale." The NFL's owners continued to propose a five-year wage scale for first-rounders, four years for other drafted players, and no individually negotiated contracts. But, according to Smith, the owners added "league-wide base salary escalators." Smith wrote that the owners' latest offer "makes the proposal worse not only for rookies, but for veteran players with three to five years in the league -- the core of our membership." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 A deal is going to get done eventually, so I am not too concerned about this issue even if they loose the whole season football will still go on, just like Hockey did. If the season is lost I can watch more college Ball and we will still get a high draft pick so either way it will work out and this will be a distant memory down the road. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 What are the owners doing? It's only 50% "on paper." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beerme1 Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 A deal is going to get done eventually, so I am not too concerned about this issue even if they loose the whole season football will still go on, just like Hockey did. If the season is lost I can watch more college Ball and we will still get a high draft pick so either way it will work out and this will be a distant memory down the road. Or they cancel the season and Ralph doesn't make it to the 2012 season and we have seen our last Bills game. Always look on the bright side of life. do do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Or they cancel the season and Ralph doesn't make it to the 2012 season and we have seen our last Bills game. The Bills aren't going anywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 What's an "average of 50%"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddaryl Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Or they cancel the season and Ralph doesn't make it to the 2012 season and we have seen our last Bills game. Always look on the bright side of life. do do. Umm maybe you failed to read that the owners have a few billion in guaranteed TV contracts whether they have a season or not that they don't have to share with the players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerball Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Umm maybe you failed to read that the owners have a few billion in guaranteed TV contracts whether they have a season or not that they don't have to share with the players. I think it's more like a loan (if you're talking about the payments the league will get if the season is lost). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvermike Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 The issue is between 50% of "all revenue" and 59% of "Football revenue" a distinction that comes to about the same total $ amount. I don't know what's excluded in the latter category - concessions? parking? Ultimately, football revenue grows for the teams together (I think) while all revenue could spike for Jerry while leaving us behind. I think as fans, we want a deal that is carved out of football revenue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CosmicBills Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Let's see ... The owners are guaranteed 7 Billion (w a B) from tv money -- 1 billion of that from Directv which is theirs to keep. They don't guarantee any of their employee contracts, impose a salary cap on it's players limiting the amount they can earn, they don't provide healthcare for retired players, a large chunk of their employees are dead by 55 thanks to the strains imposed on their bodies for playing this game ... The players offer a 10% reduction in their cut of the revenues and propose a 50/50 split when the owners assume ZERO risk in this venture and yet the owners walk away. Man the owners are f'ing scumbags who's greed is going to cost them. They think the product is bullet proof -- it ain't. I think it's more like a loan (if you're talking about the payments the league will get if the season is lost). But 1 billion of that is theirs w no need to pay it back if there is no 2011 season .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvermike Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Let's see ... The owners are guaranteed 7 Billion (w a B) from tv money -- 1 billion of that from Directv which is theirs to keep. They don't guarantee any of their employee contracts, impose a salary cap on it's players limiting the amount they can earn, they don't provide healthcare for retired players, a large chunk of their employees are dead by 55 thanks to the strains imposed on their bodies for playing this game ... The players offer a 10% reduction in their cut of the revenues and propose a 50/50 split when the owners assume ZERO risk in this venture and yet the owners walk away. Man the owners are f'ing scumbags who's greed is going to cost them. They think the product is bullet proof -- it ain't. But 1 billion of that is theirs w no need to pay it back if there is no 2011 season .... The players didn't really give back 10%. They're also changing the calculations. As a percentage of all revenue the players get between 50% and 52% most seasons. So at best, they're giving up a couple percentage points. That's still tens of millions of dollars, of course, but it's not a sweeping concession. Not that it's at all clear that it would be fair for the players to give back any of their share from the last deal. The league is still overwhelmingly profitable at the current rates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 A deal is going to get done eventually, so I am not too concerned about this issue even if they loose the whole season football will still go on, just like Hockey did. If the season is lost I can watch more college Ball and we will still get a high draft pick so either way it will work out and this will be a distant memory down the road. I believe if no 2011 season is played, then the 2012 draft order is decided by lottery. This year's order does not carry over. I'm preeeetty sure but could be wrong as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CosmicBills Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 The players didn't really give back 10%. They're also changing the calculations. As a percentage of all revenue the players get between 50% and 52% most seasons. So at best, they're giving up a couple percentage points. That's still tens of millions of dollars, of course, but it's not a sweeping concession. Not that it's at all clear that it would be fair for the players to give back any of their share from the last deal. The league is still overwhelmingly profitable at the current rates. Good to know about the numbers, Mike. Thanks! Still, the owners have zero risk (the tv money each year covers their nut -- and then some), don't guarantee their employees money nor provide adequate care for them once they're retired and yet they want more more more ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 (edited) The players didn't really give back 10%. They're also changing the calculations. As a percentage of all revenue the players get between 50% and 52% most seasons. So at best, they're giving up a couple percentage points. That's still tens of millions of dollars, of course, but it's not a sweeping concession. Not that it's at all clear that it would be fair for the players to give back any of their share from the last deal. The league is still overwhelmingly profitable at the current rates. from the numbers i heard today, they offered 51-49. The highest it has hit in the last ten years was about 52% even, with most years being a shade under 51% when you do calculations. I saw a lot of 50.5% range numbers quoted. I just glimpsed at some reports, so I cant quote the exact numbers but that 50.5% was what my gut told me the meaty section of the bell curve was, and it really never did get out of 50-52% for sure. If the norm is 50.5ish give or take, and the players offered 51, then they have actually upped their share of the pie compared to historical averages, or at best kept it flat. The way they did it though seemed to split the difference of 18% that the NFL is citing, dropping a 58-59% down to 50-51, and makes it look like a compromise to the average fan, but they have been nice enough to casually downplay that they are including more then a billion dollars in the pie they want to split up. Edited February 10, 2011 by NoSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
In-A-Gadda-Levitre Posted February 11, 2011 Author Share Posted February 11, 2011 I believe if no 2011 season is played, then the 2012 draft order is decided by lottery. This year's order does not carry over. I'm preeeetty sure but could be wrong as well. I'm curious as to why you say this. Seems like it would be more like a yellow cautionary flag in racing; keep your position order, but gaps close a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 I'm curious as to why you say this. Seems like it would be more like a yellow cautionary flag in racing; keep your position order, but gaps close a bit. there is no clause, it would have to be decided in the cba negotiations, and the guess is based off what other leagues have done in the past Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eSJayDee Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 Still, the owners have zero risk TReg, this is the 2nd time you said this. How/Why? Each owner is sitting on a ~$700m asset. Granted, they are currently rcving a good income stream from this. However, I suspect that for some/most of the owners, that investment is leveraged. It's sorta like saying buying/owning a house w/ a mortgage isn't a risk. How's that worked out recently? That asset can decrease in value. That's SUBSTANTIAL risk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spartacus Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 TReg, this is the 2nd time you said this. How/Why? Each owner is sitting on a ~$700m asset. Granted, they are currently rcving a good income stream from this. However, I suspect that for some/most of the owners, that investment is leveraged. It's sorta like saying buying/owning a house w/ a mortgage isn't a risk. How's that worked out recently? That asset can decrease in value. That's SUBSTANTIAL risk. Tgregg has a one track mind regarding the evil owners He continually misstates the facts to push his position Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkyMannn Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 Let's see ... The owners are guaranteed 7 Billion (w a B) from tv money -- 1 billion of that from Directv which is theirs to keep. They don't guarantee any of their employee contracts, impose a salary cap on it's players limiting the amount they can earn, they don't provide healthcare for retired players, a large chunk of their employees are dead by 55 thanks to the strains imposed on their bodies for playing this game ... The players offer a 10% reduction in their cut of the revenues and propose a 50/50 split when the owners assume ZERO risk in this venture and yet the owners walk away. Man the owners are f'ing scumbags who's greed is going to cost them. They think the product is bullet proof -- it ain't. But 1 billion of that is theirs w no need to pay it back if there is no 2011 season .... Oh boo hoo, if you don't like the terms don't take the job. No one forces you to play the NFL. Prove the dead by 55 compared to the rest of the population. I want to see it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Hindsight Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 It really upsets me to think no football. I love this game more than anything. I look forward to Sunday from Preseason to the Super Bowl. I love cracking a beer at 9 am on Sunday in Orchard Park. It what makes Buffalo great and one reason i love living in Buffalo now. BUT If there is a lockout that goes into the season I think i would really question my support for the NFL. The pure greed I'm seeing in these talks, its sort of sickening. I only work a few months of the year because I'm in school and i put that money towards Bills tickets. Watching these talks go down, I wonder why I do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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