Fitzpatrick is the new Jay Fiedler

[Johnny Hammersticks]

Each is a unique player, but I think the people just throwing away the comparison or saying someones dumb for thinking it aren't being all that fair. If you see differences, that's cool, but I get why someone could put the two next to each other as a reference point. Not saying they are clones, but there are definitely similaritieswhen thinking of a qb to use as a comparable at this point Fiedler would come to mind. I didn't see enough of Fiedler to exactly recall his throwing motion, how he goes through his reads, if his stats were poor in the clutch, but great in garbage time. From what I recall he was a good game manager, could scramble, was a smart guy, not elite physically, but could win some games. At this point it's hard to say what fitz will be but those all seem to describe him and there are some very close stats, and they are playing in an offense run by the same man. Fitz could be much better, he could pull a Derek Anderson... Currently he's kind of similar to Fiedler in my head tho, and that's not bad - and I don't think it's nuts to think so far.

 

Just for the record dude...I did not call you dumb or insult you in any way. It is your perception of the situation, and you are entitled to draw your own conclusion(s). The problem is, as devout Bills fans, we are very familiar with Jay Fiedler. To say that Fitz is the new Jay Fiedler is.....well....kind of an insult. If I knew for certain that Fitz was going to have the same potential as Fiedler, then yes, lets start looking for his replacement immediately. The fact is...we don't know that yet. I'm not saying that he is "the guy," but given his play this season, I'm not willing to rule that out yet.

 

His play for the remainder of the season, IMO, will be very indicative of his potential moving forward. We have six games left, and three of them are against likely playoff teams.

[Tim Tindale]

Just a few observations after reading numerous "we need a franchise qb" posts/threads:

 

a) People reference Brees and Brady as poster children for why we should be taking a QB in the Top 5. Brees was "too short" and slipped into the second round the year he was drafted and Brady was a 6th. The number of "franchise qb's" in the league that were top 5 picks isn't an incredibly long list. The process of grading out quarterback talent is inconsistent at best.

 

b) The notion that teams can't make the playoffs or can't win a Super Bowl without a "top tier" QB is just wrong. I think Marino was one of the top QB's of all-time and never won one. Elway didn't win one until he had Terrell Davis and decent defense. It takes a balanced roster. One guy doesn't win anything in the NFL and there have been plenty of teams that have made playoff runs without a upper echelon QB. I actually think it's harder to find teams that have gone deep into the playoffs that do not have strong defensive lines and offensive lines. Fitz can be a playoff quarterback, but not with a team that gives up 175 yards/game on the ground. About 8 weeks ago, we were talking about how much of an embarrassment the OL was. Now Fitz rarely gets sacked and the passing game has actually opened up the running game a bit. I think he's elevated the play of an under-talented line, which is saying something about how strong of a year he is actually having. The offensive line angst on this board has virtually disappeared, despite a revolving door at one of the tackle positions.

 

c) What constitutes a franchise qb? Honestly, I'd observe that nearly every other team has found their franchise QB, but the Bills. Or at least, that's what many seem to imply. I mean there are so many consistently solid-to-above average teams in the NFL now. Let's say 15 or so. I mean, Packers, Vikes, Chargers, Colts, Jets, Pats, Steelers, Ravens, Giants, Eagles, Saints, Falcons. There is another group that we'd probably classify as "always a threat/typically in the mix" such as the Cowboys, Bengals (won the AFC North last year), Dolphins, etc. How many of these teams have franchise qb's, because that's a significant amount of teams. Furthermore, how many of these teams could we swap out their starter for Fitz and they'd still be playoff-type teams? I'd argue that it's quite a few. Not all of them, but a lot.

 

The point of all of this. One player, even the QB, doesn't make a playoff team. Yes, a Brady and Manning are a one-in-a-generation guys and can obviously carry you quite far. History would say that the odds of landing that guy are remote, even with a top five pick. I think you find a solid qb, you build around him with strong offensive lines and defensive lines and you have team that can contend every year. Fitz is showing that he can be that solid qb. If not, you can pick up a solid qb off of free agency after you've put the other pieces in place. No way we ever contend with the defense we have, especially given the run defense.

[NoSaint]

"Get[ting] the franchise guy" is easier said than done. With the Bills' 2 wins, they've all but assured themselves of missing out on Luck (assuming he declares). Beyond him (and even including him), I have reservations about all the other QB's and feel it will be similar to last year, i.e. Bradford and then a bunch of career backups. And TB took a gamble and got lucky. Hardly a game plan.

 

Fiedler was in the league for 10 seasons. Fitz is in his 6th year. What's your point?

 

Again, this season blows away Fielder's best season (2001) out of his 10 years in the league. If you want to talk 2002, see below.

 

You might want to check that 2002 season. Outside of the 2 games Fiedler started against the Pats (who were ranked 11th in pass defense), the remaining teams were all in the bottom half in pass defense, and 3 were in the bottom-5.

 

I hear ya - I can't say the lions and a very beat up bengals are world beaters either. He's had some good games, against decent defenses too though. I think the steelers will be a good test, but definitely not the end all. Don't forget, it looks like their weakness is pass defense. Also, like I said, the NFL has helped out qbs and receivers since then. comparing two half seasons nearly a decade apart only says so much.

 

 

I don't agree with the thread title declaring him the next Fiedler, I'm just saying he's played kind of similarly, and done so with the same coach, and a similar scouting report. Not a crazy reference at this point in his career.

[BillsVet]

Theres only one truth in this thread: there's us lowly "casual" fans, we wear our sweats while watching the team play, Bills games are secondary Sunday activites, and to a man, we lack the capacity for critical, anytical thought.

 

Then there are the uber fans like BillsVet, without whom the rest of us would be lost, utterly lost.

 

So just know: if youve ever had a positive thought about the Bills, your credibility is ****. Youre nothing more than a casual fan and you should really consider a cease and desist before spamming a highly intelligible, highly prestigious bastion for discourse such as TSW.

 

I'll stop complaining about the team when they win 10 or more games and reach the playoffs. And don't make this a class argument thing, because it's not. Some fans are more into football than others, and that's OK. but you've been a lead cheerleader on this board for a long time, and nearly every time your predictions fail. When people pointed out before the season the QB, pass protection, and pass rush were terrible, you attacked. Well, will you humble yourself and admit this is a rebuilding team that doesn't win against quality teams? Nah, you'd rather make this a class warfare thing and continue complaining that some people aren't impressed beating the dregs of the NFL.

 

6 teams make the playoffs in the conference meaning 10 don't. If you're impressed winning 4-8 games per season and perhaps challenging for the wildcard, fine. Just don't bash people who demand excellence once in a decade. I mean, even the Raiders, Bucs, and Rams have more wins that Buffalo this season.

Edited November 25, 2010 by BillsVet

[NoSaint]

Just for the record dude...I did not call you dumb or insult you in any way. It is your perception of the situation, and you are entitled to draw your own conclusion(s). The problem is, as devout Bills fans, we are very familiar with Jay Fiedler. To say that Fitz is the new Jay Fiedler is.....well....kind of an insult. If I knew for certain that Fitz was going to have the same potential as Fiedler, then yes, lets start looking for his replacement immediately. The fact is...we don't know that yet. I'm not saying that he is "the guy," but given his play this season, I'm not willing to rule that out yet.

 

His play for the remainder of the season, IMO, will be very indicative of his potential moving forward. We have six games left, and three of them are against likely playoff teams.

 

For sure - no insult taken. I think it's both sides. If you like fitz your a dumb homer, if not you are a pessimist that doesn't really know football.

 

I think if I remember correctly, we saw some of the worst of Fiedler.

 

I say if we nix thinks he has his guy in the draft, pull the trigger. If not, let's roll with what we've got and solidify this defense.

[bobobonators]

everything w/the OP revolves around bashing Fitz, either directly or indirectly. what a joke. why even post here?

[The Big Cat]

I'll stop complaining about the team when they win 10 or more games and reach the playoffs. And don't make this a class argument thing, because it's not. Some fans are more into football than others, and that's OK. but you've been a lead cheerleader on this board for a long time, and nearly every time your predictions fail. When people pointed out before the season the QB, pass protection, and pass rush were terrible, you attacked. Well, will you humble yourself and admit this is a rebuilding team that doesn't win against quality teams? Nah, you'd rather make this a class warfare thing and cemplaningomplaining that some people aren't impressed beating the dregs of the NFL.

 

 

 

 

 

 

TSW's resident shoe pebble, everyone.

 

No one here is saying you're wrong, in fact let me be the first to offer you a hearty congratulations on being right ALL the time when you whine about how crappy the team is. Pat yourself on the back, you should be proud.

 

Being right doesn't make you any less of a crotchety bore, and I've only ever derided you for being the latter.

 

But again, the rest of us are truly envious of the sound nights sleep you must get each and every time your favorite team brings your doom and gloom scenarios to fruition.

 

 

 

 

 

6 teams make the playoffs in the conference meaning 10 don't. If you're impressed winning 4-8 games per season and perhaps challenging for the wildcard, fine. Just don't bash people who demand excellence once in a decade. I mean, even the Raiders, Bucs, and Rams have more wins that Buffalo this season.

[Johnny Hammersticks]

everything w/the OP revolves around bashing Fitz, either directly or indirectly. what a joke. why even post here?

 

Seriously, where the hell is the original poster? You start a controversial thread like this, and you haven't made a single follow-up post to defend your ideas? Let's hear from ya. Tell us exactly why Fitz is the next Jay Fiedler.

 

We can wait until you are done carving the turkey

[EastRochBillsfan]

Theres only one truth in this thread: there's us lowly "casual" fans, we wear our sweats while watching the team play, Bills games are secondary Sunday activites, and to a man, we lack the capacity for critical, anytical thought.

 

Then there are the uber fans like BillsVet, without whom the rest of us would be lost, utterly lost.

 

So just know: if youve ever had a positive thought about the Bills, your credibility is ****. Youre nothing more than a casual fan and you should really consider a cease and desist before spamming a highly intelligible, highly prestigious bastion for discourse such as TSW.

Not sure what everything you said meant, but I must agree, where would we all be without Billsvets' superior football knowledge and intelligence. We're not worthy.

 

Just for the record dude...I did not call you dumb or insult you in any way. It is your perception of the situation, and you are entitled to draw your own conclusion(s). The problem is, as devout Bills fans, we are very familiar with Jay Fiedler. To say that Fitz is the new Jay Fiedler is.....well....kind of an insult. If I knew for certain that Fitz was going to have the same potential as Fiedler, then yes, lets start looking for his replacement immediately. The fact is...we don't know that yet. I'm not saying that he is "the guy," but given his play this season, I'm not willing to rule that out yet.

 

His play for the remainder of the season, IMO, will be very indicative of his potential moving forward. We have six games left, and three of them are against likely playoff teams.

well said and i concur wholeheartedly.

 

I'll stop complaining about the team when they win 10 or more games and reach the playoffs. And don't make this a class argument thing, because it's not. Some fans are more into football than others, and that's OK. but you've been a lead cheerleader on this board for a long time, and nearly every time your predictions fail. When people pointed out before the season the QB, pass protection, and pass rush were terrible, you attacked. Well, will you humble yourself and admit this is a rebuilding team that doesn't win against quality teams? Nah, you'd rather make this a class warfare thing and continue complaining that some people aren't impressed beating the dregs of the NFL.

 

6 teams make the playoffs in the conference meaning 10 don't. If you're impressed winning 4-8 games per season and perhaps challenging for the wildcard, fine. Just don't bash people who demand excellence once in a decade. I mean, even the Raiders, Bucs, and Rams have more wins that Buffalo this season.

like winning 10 games and going to the playoffs is going to shut you up. Not a chance in hell you stop complaining cuz that's just who you are. If you think any of us are happy winning 4-8 games and that you are the only one that wants excellence then you're blind AND negative. Just because you "demand excellence" doesn't change a thing. and it doesn't make you a better or more knowledgable fan than the rest of us. you're just a complainer and you always will be and I just can't stand reading a damn thing you have to say. And rest assured, I am not alone.

[bobobonators]

Seriously, where the hell is the original poster? You start a controversial thread like this, and you haven't made a single follow-up post to defend your ideas? Let's hear from ya. Tell us exactly why Fitz is the next Jay Fiedler.

 

We can wait until you are done carving the turkey

 

that's all this guy does. go look at his post history - not a single positive comment on fitz. now, when it comes time to talk-up future nfl hall of famer, luck, his praise is unyielding.

[Bill from NYC]

If you're looking at a parallel career, look no further than Jay Fiedler, another smart, overachieving Ivy Leaguer who managed to start for a few winning seasons with the Dolphins in the early 2000s.

Fiedler was able to lead the Dolphins to 3 double digit winning seasons, but was never looked at as a guy who could lead a team to a championship.

So the long term question is would you have been satisfied having Jay Fiedler as our QB in his prime? If the answer is yes, Fitz is your QB the next few years. If the answer is no, we have to search for someone better, but maybe not this year.

Now that we have virtually no chance at the #1 pick, I wouldn't spend our top pick on a QB. I think only Luck was worth unseating Fitzpatrick next year this early into our rebuild. We also cannot afford to take a shot on Mallet or any other 1st round QB when we have so many other needs and each of the other QBs have question marks.

So let's keep searching for the franchise QB to replace Fitzpatrick, but let's not reach in the 1st round this year with Luck out of the equation.

 

Very good analogy Harvey. Both also were very mobile. That said, I would take Mallett in a heartbeat.

[truth on hold]

Both have serious accuracy problems.

[Rockinon]

Both have serious accuracy problems.

So did Favre.

[truth on hold]

So did Favre.

Neither one have anywhere near Favre's arm strength

[Rockinon]

Neither one have anywhere near Favre's arm strength

What do you know about arm strength?

[Big Turk]

Just a few observations after reading numerous "we need a franchise qb" posts/threads:

 

a) People reference Brees and Brady as poster children for why we should be taking a QB in the Top 5. Brees was "too short" and slipped into the second round the year he was drafted and Brady was a 6th. The number of "franchise qb's" in the league that were top 5 picks isn't an incredibly long list. The process of grading out quarterback talent is inconsistent at best.

 

That can be said for any position really...QB always gets the most attention because it is the most important position, but there are cases every year where 1st round guys suck and 7th round and undrafted players playing he same position flourish...

 

makes one wonder just how good someone has to be to be a scout and why it is so difficult to predict...

[ko12010]

Casual fans forget the crucial errors Fitz has made that would be magnified if this team were in the playoff hunt or actually competing for the division. He threw a key INT against KC, another against CHI, and a pick 6 against Cincy. Every QB in the league throws picks, and occasionally at inopportune times (P. Manning last week, Brady in AFC Title Game 06) but the great ones don't do it as frequently as Fitzpatrick has. The margin of error is thinner that most casual fans realize, because essentially most Bills fans don't know what a franchise QB does week in and week out and what they do to win games.

 

In 8 games this season, Fitz has completed half or fewer than half of his passes 3 times. He's passed for under 150 yards twice and thrown two INT's four times and is completing about 58% of his passes. Fitz is a decent player playing above average for a bad football team. To ever be a good team, they'll need fewer mistakes from their QB in games against opponents better than Cincinnati and Detroit.

 

 

People tend to forget that Fitz CAN improve his game as well. We think of rookies as the only ones who develop and need a few years to learn nuances and offensive audibles and adjustments. But there's no reason Fitz can't improve dramatically as a total player over the next couple seasons.

[Buffalo Barbarian]

fitzpatrick is ten times the passes fiedler ever was.

 

Thank you +1

[EndZoneCrew]

If you're looking at a parallel career, look no further than Jay Fiedler, another smart, overachieving Ivy Leaguer who managed to start for a few winning seasons with the Dolphins in the early 2000s.

Fiedler was able to lead the Dolphins to 3 double digit winning seasons, but was never looked at as a guy who could lead a team to a championship.

So the long term question is would you have been satisfied having Jay Fiedler as our QB in his prime? If the answer is yes, Fitz is your QB the next few years. If the answer is no, we have to search for someone better, but maybe not this year.

Now that we have virtually no chance at the #1 pick, I wouldn't spend our top pick on a QB. I think only Luck was worth unseating Fitzpatrick next year this early into our rebuild. We also cannot afford to take a shot on Mallet or any other 1st round QB when we have so many other needs and each of the other QBs have question marks.

So let's keep searching for the franchise QB to replace Fitzpatrick, but let's not reach in the 1st round this year with Luck out of the equation.

 

When was Fiedler throwing 4 TD's in a game or winging it around for 300+ yards?

[Cotton Fitzsimmons]

When was Fiedler throwing 4 TD's in a game or winging it around for 300+ yards?

 

Apparently you didn't get the memo... the NFL has enhanced the rules over the last 8 years. Clearly if Fiedler was playing in this era, he'd be putting up those kind of numbers on a weekly basis.

 

 

In the 8 years between the NFL has used the rule book to open up the passing game more....

[PromoTheRobot]

Fiedler and Fitz were both Ivy league QB's that started in the NFL. That's about where the similarities end.

 

PTR

[Johnny Hammersticks]

Apparently you didn't get the memo... the NFL has enhanced the rules over the last 8 years. Clearly if Fiedler was playing in this era, he'd be putting up those kind of numbers on a weekly basis.

 

That's a bold and baseless assumption. Perhaps trends in overall passing statistics have improved over the past 8 years due to the rule changes, but to say that Jay Fiedler would be putting up those numbers in today's NFL is ridiculous. He was always a "game manager" type QB who rarely lit up the stat sheet with 300+ yards and 3-4 TD's.

[Bill from NYC]

Fiedler and Fitz were both Ivy league QB's that started in the NFL. That's about where the similarities end.

 

PTR

 

Was Fiedler smart and very mobile? Is Fitz? Is their arm strength similar?

 

Why do you post stuff like this?

[NoSaint]

Apparently you didn't get the memo... the NFL has enhanced the rules over the last 8 years. Clearly if Fiedler was playing in this era, he'd be putting up those kind of numbers on a weekly basis.

 

I'm not saying that the rule changes would make Fiedler into manning, but has anyone else noticed QBs around the league have numbers jump this year? Two players about on pace to give marino a run for his money? Something like 13-14 300 yard passers a couple weeks ago? I think especially the protecting of receivers the last month has boosted qb numbers while DBs adjust. Fiedler and fitz have very similar numbers, but they are playing near a decade apart, and things do change so it's not a 1:1 comparison. Heaven forbid it's mentioned. Definitely not the end all factor but it's a reason why comparisons are tough across time periods.

[Doc]

Fiedler and Fitz were both Ivy league QB's that started in the NFL. That's about where the similarities end.

They're both also white and 6'2" and 225#. They may also share the same favorite color.

[Albany,n.y.]

Seriously, where the hell is the original poster? You start a controversial thread like this, and you haven't made a single follow-up post to defend your ideas? Let's hear from ya. Tell us exactly why Fitz is the next Jay Fiedler.

 

We can wait until you are done carving the turkey

Here's why. I'm not a stat boy, I think QB stats are among the most misleading statistics in all of sports. Especially the QB rating which rewards QBs who have a better TE than RB in the red zone. What difference does it make among QBs who drive the team all the way down the field if with 1st & goal at the 3, one QB hands it off to his RB for a TD & one throws it to his 6'6" TE in the endzone. They both drove for TDs but the one with the big target in the end zone will look better on paper. Let's not even get into sack prone guys like RJ who had inflated QB stats from completion % to QB rating, or Trent Edwards who is too afraid to throw the ball into tight coverages, but can look better on paper than on the field. So any statistical comparison between the 2 is irrelevant to me.

Now that my rant on QB stats is over, here are the similarities.

Both are smart guys who were disregarded by the NFL. Fitz a 7th rounder, Fiedler a UFA.

Both bounced from team to team early in their careers.

Both were given a chance by proving themselves on the field after being thought of as nothing more than a smart career backup.

Both are guys who can win in the right situation, but will never carry a team on their backs.

Both always have to fight year to year to retain their starting job.

Both are viewed as a caretaker QB who their team will always be looking to upgrade from.

Both are overachievers who will battle to stay in their jobs.

Both (Fiedler for sure)can lead a team to the playoffs, but are unlikely to go all the way.

 

I don't understand why some people feel I trashed Fitzpatrick by the comparison. Fiedler, at this point put up a lot more Ws and if the 2011 Bills were to hit 10 wins, like Fiedler did with the Dolphins, most fans around here would be ectatic. I still judge QBs by Ws & not stats & Fitz has the potential to get the Bills Ws, like Fiedler did with the Dolphins, and keep the starter's job a few seasons. However, I don't feel Fitzpatrick is the guy to lead the Bills to the Super Bowl.

 

By the way, before this season started, the cut Fitz crowd was really on my case because I thought they were way off base thinking Fitz was going to be cut. If you think I bashed Fitz, go back to all the April-September posts where I defended the guy, including the one where I had him as the QB with the surest spot on the 53 man roster.

[Doc]

Here's why. I'm not a stat boy, I think QB stats are among the most misleading statistics in all of sports. Especially the QB rating which rewards QBs who have a better TE than RB in the red zone. What difference does it make among QBs who drive the team all the way down the field if with 1st & goal at the 3, one QB hands it off to his RB for a TD & one throws it to his 6'6" TE in the endzone. They both drove for TDs but the one with the big target in the end zone will look better on paper. Let's not even get into sack prone guys like RJ who had inflated QB stats from completion % to QB rating, or Trent Edwards who is too afraid to throw the ball into tight coverages, but can look better on paper than on the field. So any statistical comparison between the 2 is irrelevant to me.

Now that my rant on QB stats is over, here are the similarities.

Both are smart guys who were disregarded by the NFL. Fitz a 7th rounder, Fiedler a UFA.

Both bounced from team to team early in their careers.

Both were given a chance by proving themselves on the field after being thought of as nothing more than a smart career backup.

Both are guys who can win in the right situation, but will never carry a team on their backs.

Both always have to fight year to year to retain their starting job.

Both are viewed as a caretaker QB who their team will always be looking to upgrade from.

Both are overachievers who will battle to stay in their jobs.

Both (Fiedler for sure)can lead a team to the playoffs, but are unlikely to go all the way.

 

I don't understand why some people feel I trashed Fitzpatrick by the comparison. Fiedler, at this point put up a lot more Ws and if the 2011 Bills were to hit 10 wins, like Fiedler did with the Dolphins, most fans around here would be ectatic. I still judge QBs by Ws & not stats & Fitz has the potential to get the Bills Ws, like Fiedler did with the Dolphins, and keep the starter's job a few seasons. However, I don't feel Fitzpatrick is the guy to lead the Bills to the Super Bowl.

 

By the way, before this season started, the cut Fitz crowd was really on my case because I thought they were way off base thinking Fitz was going to be cut. If you think I bashed Fitz, go back to all the April-September posts where I defended the guy, including the one where I had him as the QB with the surest spot on the 53 man roster.

Outside of being unheralded white QB's from Ivy league schools who are both 6'2" and 225# and who bounced-around early in their careers, nothing more can be said about Fitzpatrick until his time in the NFL is done.

[DrFishfinder]

If you're looking at a parallel career, look no further than Jay Fiedler, another smart, overachieving Ivy Leaguer who managed to start for a few winning seasons with the Dolphins in the early 2000s.

Fiedler was able to lead the Dolphins to 3 double digit winning seasons, but was never looked at as a guy who could lead a team to a championship.

So the long term question is would you have been satisfied having Jay Fiedler as our QB in his prime? If the answer is yes, Fitz is your QB the next few years. If the answer is no, we have to search for someone better, but maybe not this year.

Now that we have virtually no chance at the #1 pick, I wouldn't spend our top pick on a QB. I think only Luck was worth unseating Fitzpatrick next year this early into our rebuild. We also cannot afford to take a shot on Mallet or any other 1st round QB when we have so many other needs and each of the other QBs have question marks.

So let's keep searching for the franchise QB to replace Fitzpatrick, but let's not reach in the 1st round this year with Luck out of the equation.

First, if I was Fitz, I would be highly insulted by this. Fiedler followed a hall of fame QB. Fitz followed a sink hole.

Second of all, if Mallett is available, get him. Whichever QB the Bills draft next year isn't going to start, anyway.

 

 

[steampunk]

Heya Albany. I don't think you're supporting your point about Fitzpatrick and Fielder.

 

Both are smart guys who were disregarded by the NFL. Fitz a 7th rounder, Fiedler a UFA.

Both bounced from team to team early in their careers.

Both were given a chance by proving themselves on the field after being thought of as nothing more than a smart career backup.

 

These 3 items are ultra-general. They would be true for hundreds of NFL players. Even if we reduced your "smart guys" to "true Ivy leaguers only" (eliminating all players from Stanford and Vanderbilt type schools), we'd still have a large group of people that you'd consider just like Fitz and Fielder.

 

Ivy leaguers are more likely to get drafted late. Players drafted late are more likely to get cut and more likely to bounce around teams and practice squads. (Guys like Maybin and Mcargo are still Bills only because of their round.)

 

The other 5 'similarities' you list are nothing but your negative opinions of Fitz, along with biased predictions of how his future might go. Also, the list is general enough that most people could quickly name 20 quarterbacks that fit the descriptions.

 

Both are guys who can win in the right situation, but will never carry a team on their backs.

Both always have to fight year to year to retain their starting job.

Both are viewed as a caretaker QB who their team will always be looking to upgrade from.

Both are overachievers who will battle to stay in their jobs.

Both (Fiedler for sure)can lead a team to the playoffs, but are unlikely to go all the way.

 

I don't understand why some people feel I trashed Fitzpatrick by the comparison.

 

Well sir, it reads like more of a Fitzpatrick trashing that a comparison. I guess the beef is with calling it one thing when it's really the other.

[NoSaint]

Outside of being unheralded white QB's from Ivy league schools who are both 6'2" and 225# and who bounced-around early in their careers, nothing more can be said about Fitzpatrick until his time in the NFL is done.

 

Who got their break under the tutelage of the same coach, have the sane td:int ratio, and completion percentage... Fiedler was a little better YPA and ran a little more. At the very least you don't think chan tries to coach certain traits into his qbs that they would share?

 

I'm not saying they are clones but the more I dig the more the comparison seems valid thus far. Fitz had a couple big games which might be a sign of things to come, or maybe just some good luck. Its impossible to tell but I can't think of a better reference point, and that can even be discounting the white ivy league references that keep being "the only thing in common." i know the comparing of two players can be silly but is there a better comparison that I am missing?

[Albany,n.y.]

Heya Albany. I don't think you're supporting your point about Fitzpatrick and Fielder.

 

 

 

These 3 items are ultra-general. They would be true for hundreds of NFL players. Even if we reduced your "smart guys" to "true Ivy leaguers only" (eliminating all players from Stanford and Vanderbilt type schools), we'd still have a large group of people that you'd consider just like Fitz and Fielder.

 

Ivy leaguers are more likely to get drafted late. Players drafted late are more likely to get cut and more likely to bounce around teams and practice squads. (Guys like Maybin and Mcargo are still Bills only because of their round.)

 

The other 5 'similarities' you list are nothing but your negative opinions of Fitz, along with biased predictions of how his future might go. Also, the list is general enough that most people could quickly name 20 quarterbacks that fit the descriptions.

 

 

 

If comparing a player with a guy who helped his team make the playoffs & won a division title is a trashing, we have very different viewpoints on how to trash a player. If you want to see my definition of trashing a player, read some of the posts before Fitzpatrick was named the starter by other posters. I'm not trashing Fitzpatrick, I'm just keeping it real.

It's amazing how Fitz has gone from a guy 1/4 of this board wanted cut to someone who now can be entrusted to lead this team to the promised land. The guy still has the same limitations.

I've been realistic about Fitzpatrick all along while others have had so many mood swings on the guy, they'd qualify for a Prozac prescription.

The guy is a great backup who can be a decent starter, but never an impact player. That's reality. If proper evaluation of a player's talents is your decription of a trashing, because you disagree with my assessment, which in the 2 years he's been here has been more spot on than most, so be it.

Edited November 26, 2010 by Albany,n.y.

[NoSaint]

If comparing a player with a guy who helped his team make the playoffs & won a division title is a trashing, we have very different viewpoints on how to trash a player. If you want to see my definition of trashing a player, read some of the posts before Fitzpatrick was named the starter by other posters. I'm not trashing Fitzpatrick, I'm just keeping it real.

It's amazing how Fitz has gone from a guy 1/4 of this board wanted cut to someone who now can be entrusted to lead this team to the promised land. The guy still has the same limitations.

I've been realistic about Fitzpatrick all along while others have had so many mood swings on the guy, they'd qualify for a Prozac prescription.

The guy is a great backup who can be a decent starter, but never an impact player. That's reality. If proper evaluation of a player's talents is your decription of a trashing, because you disagree with my assessment, which in the 2 years he's been here has been more spot on than most, so be it.

 

It's funny how you wouldve been a fitz homer if you posted that in august. Now here we are 8 starts later and I've seen Steve young and Brett favre comparisons.... Yet you and I are crazy. Fitz is good, but likely not great. That's not bashing. I think a team could win 10 games with him but let's be honest about the last two wins -- lions haven't won a road game in years and an injury depleted cincy. I'm hopeful that it was a clutch second half performance and not their secondary becoming too injured to play as the game progressed. Saying he's a playoff qb at this point is still pretty optimistic, because his record has yet to show that. I hope it will though.

[Kelly the Dog]

If comparing a player with a guy who helped his team make the playoffs & won a division title is a trashing, we have very different viewpoints on how to trash a player. If you want to see my definition of trashing a player, read some of the posts before Fitzpatrick was named the starter by other posters. I'm not trashing Fitzpatrick, I'm just keeping it real.

It's amazing how Fitz has gone from a guy 1/4 of this board wanted cut to someone who now can be entrusted to lead this team to the promised land. The guy still has the same limitations.

I've been realistic about Fitzpatrick all along while others have had so many mood swings on the guy, they'd qualify for a Prozac prescription.

The guy is a great backup who can be a decent starter, but never an impact player. That's reality. If proper evaluation of a player's talents is your decription of a trashing, because you disagree with my assessment, which in the 2 years he's been here has been more spot on than most, so be it.

The Fitz of this year, and the Fitz of his previous years in the league is a massive change. He's throwing TDs, he's making a ton of big plays, he's moving the ball, he's spreading it around, he's making third downs and third and long at a terrific percentage. Because of his connection with Gailey, he's transformed his game. He never really played like this before (and I'm sure someone will put up a game where he had good stats once in awhile to refute it but if you watch the games, the guy is playing a lot different, with much more confidence, throwing different kinds of passes, and getting different results.

 

IF -- and this is a big IF -- he keeps it up against the Steelers and the rest of the six games and throws 30 TDs and we look like an exciting, productive offense that scares defenses for the first time since half a Bledsoe, the guy is no longer the great back-up and decent starter, he's the bona fide starter and potential star. Drew Brees made that jump. Other players make that jump. We don't know for sure yet. Before this year, I felt the same as you. Even through the first few games I did, like when he overthrew Parrish in the NE game when we needed him to hit that pass. But over the last six weeks he has become a good QB and sometimes very good. It could be an aberration but it might not be. The jury is still out.

 

The next six games will tell. There is no FACT yet. Yours is an opinion about his limitations. It may turn out to be true. Eight games is a relatively small sample but I think 14 will give us a pretty good idea.

[Sisyphean Bills]

They're both also white and 6'2" and 225#. They may also share the same favorite color.

Both of their last names start with "Fi" and their first names both have the letters "a" and "y". How cool is that?

[SoFFacet]

Both are smart guys who were disregarded by the NFL. Fitz a 7th rounder, Fiedler a UFA.

Both bounced from team to team early in their careers.

Both were given a chance by proving themselves on the field after being thought of as nothing more than a smart career backup.

 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Both are guys who can win in the right situation, but will never carry a team on their backs.

Both are overachievers who will battle to stay in their jobs.

Both (Fiedler for sure)can lead a team to the playoffs, but are unlikely to go all the way.

 

Mixing facts and opinions to give the impression of listing only facts is a common fallacy. I took the liberty of dividing up your list of 'similarities' into the facts (top) and opinions (bottom).

[Sisyphean Bills]

The Fitz of this year, and the Fitz of his previous years in the league is a massive change. He's throwing TDs, he's making a ton of big plays, he's moving the ball, he's spreading it around, he's making third downs and third and long at a terrific percentage. Because of his connection with Gailey, he's transformed his game. He never really played like this before (and I'm sure someone will put up a game where he had good stats once in awhile to refute it but if you watch the games, the guy is playing a lot different, with much more confidence, throwing different kinds of passes, and getting different results.

 

IF -- and this is a big IF -- he keeps it up against the Steelers and the rest of the six games and throws 30 TDs and we look like an exciting, productive offense that scares defenses for the first time since half a Bledsoe, the guy is no longer the great back-up and decent starter, he's the bona fide starter and potential star. Drew Brees made that jump. Other players make that jump. We don't know for sure yet. Before this year, I felt the same as you. Even through the first few games I did, like when he overthrew Parrish in the NE game when we needed him to hit that pass. But over the last six weeks he has become a good QB and sometimes very good. It could be an aberration but it might not be. The jury is still out.

 

The next six games will tell. There is no FACT yet. Yours is an opinion about his limitations. It may turn out to be true. Eight games is a relatively small sample but I think 14 will give us a pretty good idea.

I can agree with most of this, but I think it'll take necessarily more than 1 not-quite complete season to establish Fitzpatrick as a franchise QB. He's going to have to be very good again next year and lead this team to a lot more wins. (Of course, having a legit defense is a huge part of wins and not under the QB's control, I know.) The offense cannot stagnate, but has to continue to mature and develop. In this division with the defensive coaches that work here, there is no way an offense can rest on yesterday's laurels and continue to be effective.

[BillsVet]

The Fitz of this year, and the Fitz of his previous years in the league is a massive change. He's throwing TDs, he's making a ton of big plays, he's moving the ball, he's spreading it around, he's making third downs and third and long at a terrific percentage. Because of his connection with Gailey, he's transformed his game. He never really played like this before (and I'm sure someone will put up a game where he had good stats once in awhile to refute it but if you watch the games, the guy is playing a lot different, with much more confidence, throwing different kinds of passes, and getting different results.

 

The next six games will tell. There is no FACT yet. Yours is an opinion about his limitations. It may turn out to be true. Eight games is a relatively small sample but I think 14 will give us a pretty good idea.

 

Accuracy and arm strength will always be Fitzpatrick's achilles heel. He has to be in a system that doesn't ask him to throw the deep out or passes more than 20 yards. The Dolphins did a great job in 2008 of game-planning to maximize Pennington's strengths without showing his weaker arm. A good offensive staff can work around a QB with less than ideal arm strength. But if a staff has a QB like Fitzpatrick needing to make throws downfield and not backing him up with a solid run game, the results generally aren't good.

 

It's true 8 games is a relatively small sample size, but the true indication of a QB's worth is after teams have had an off-season of film on him. If the guy can come back and play solid football, wonderful. The name of the game is whether a guy has potential and if he can live up to it. When I see a 6th year QB stare down a WR and throw into double coverage like he did on Sunday, I have my doubts. He's gritty, smart, and a good teammate from what I've seen. But in the NFL, you need talent to win regularly and yes, the jury is still out.

 

Just once I'd like to see Buffalo beat a division winner or playoff team convincingly. If the Bills do that Sunday and Fitzpatrick throws for 250 and 2 scores, well, I might begin to contemplate his long term potential as a NFL starting QB.

[Koufax]

Except Fiedler's career high for TD% as a starter was 4.8, and Fitz is 6.3 right now.

 

Except that Fiedler's yards per game high as a starter was 205, and Fitz is currently 245.

 

Except that Fiedler was a 1:1 TD:INT guy his whole career and Fitz is currently a 2:1.

 

Except that Fiedler never had a QB rating as high as Fitz's right now.

 

Except that all that happened as Fiedler took over for a team that had made the playoffs and won a playoff game the year before, and not the lowly struggling rebuilding Bills.

 

You could do the same if someone compared Fitz to Kurt Warner. And I don't think either comparison is a good one. But I would actually be quite happy with Fitz putting together a couple 10 win seasons in a row as the team rebuilds and finds and develops their QB in the next two drafts (whether Luck, Mallet, or somebody off our radar screen at the moment).

 

So I'm happy with Fitz being our QB right now, winning games for us, and allowing us not to rush/force the QB draft decision. I don't have any problem if he is our Kitna to Palmer or Brees to Rivers, and I think we do take a franchise QB whenever the opportunity presents itself. But Fitz has shown a lot and has six more games to show how much faith he deserves, and if we want to draft a QB not ready to start in the 2011 draft to learn behind him, or whether we want to wait and draft someone in 2012, or whether we want to spend a top five pick in the next draft, etc.

 

I don't see Fitz being our 2015 QB. But I think we will be a better 2011 team with Fitz + Fairley than Fitz + Mallett/Locker, so our decision on how we get better for 2012 and beyond is a complicated one, and I am glad Fitz has stepped up and made it complicated...because in week 2 it was looking pretty depressing and uncomplicated.

 

 

 

If you're looking at a parallel career, look no further than Jay Fiedler, another smart, overachieving Ivy Leaguer who managed to start for a few winning seasons with the Dolphins in the early 2000s.

Fiedler was able to lead the Dolphins to 3 double digit winning seasons, but was never looked at as a guy who could lead a team to a championship.

So the long term question is would you have been satisfied having Jay Fiedler as our QB in his prime? If the answer is yes, Fitz is your QB the next few years. If the answer is no, we have to search for someone better, but maybe not this year.

Now that we have virtually no chance at the #1 pick, I wouldn't spend our top pick on a QB. I think only Luck was worth unseating Fitzpatrick next year this early into our rebuild. We also cannot afford to take a shot on Mallet or any other 1st round QB when we have so many other needs and each of the other QBs have question marks.

So let's keep searching for the franchise QB to replace Fitzpatrick, but let's not reach in the 1st round this year with Luck out of the equation.

[The Big Cat]

Accuracy and arm strength will always be Fitzpatrick's achilles heel. He has to be in a system that doesn't ask him to throw the deep out or passes more than 20 yards. The Dolphins did a great job in 2008 of game-planning to maximize Pennington's strengths without showing his weaker arm. A good offensive staff can work around a QB with less than ideal arm strength. But if a staff has a QB like Fitzpatrick needing to make throws downfield and not backing him up with a solid run game, the results generally aren't good.

 

It's true 8 games is a relatively small sample size, but the true indication of a QB's worth is after teams have had an off-season of film on him. If the guy can come back and play solid football, wonderful. The name of the game is whether a guy has potential and if he can live up to it. When I see a 6th year QB stare down a WR and throw into double coverage like he did on Sunday, I have my doubts. He's gritty, smart, and a good teammate from what I've seen. But in the NFL, you need talent to win regularly and yes, the jury is still out.

 

Just once I'd like to see Buffalo beat a division winner or playoff team convincingly. If the Bills do that Sunday and Fitzpatrick throws for 250 and 2 scores, well, I might begin to contemplate his long term potential as a NFL starting QB.

 

LOSMAN was an inaccurate passer. Fitz throws a few bad throws. Why can't you see the difference here? If you want a quarterback who makes all the throws ALL the time, you might as well perch yourself on an ice cube in Hell, brother.

 

You're comparing Fitz's arm strength to Pennington's? Are you high?

 

Never mind the fact that Fitz has Bufflo's longest ever play from the LOS. You know, the throw that traveled about 52 yards through the air:

 

 

Accuracy is his Achilles heel? Boy, you must be high.

[cåblelady]

FitzMagic!