why is CJ any better than reggie bush?

[NoSaint]

Reggie Bush has 31 TDs in 52 NFL games. That is on par with our offensive TDs the past 52 games

 

 

People dont see a 2000 yard rushing season, but i promise you there is a reason the saints are willing to pay him 8+ million this year.... what a player like this does for your offense when utilized correctly can be something the likes of which hasnt been seen in buffalo in maybe 20 years.

 

Seeing it in person week in and week out, he is electric. As much flack as we all give him down here, every time he touches the ball you are holding your breath because it could be 7. I think he gets such a hard time because you almost expect him to be able to do it every time, because he makes it look so easy so often.

 

Another thing you notice watching him all the time is there are plenty of times in those 25 touches between TDs that he is getting garbage double reverses, end arounds, and gimmick plays to keep the defense honest, which never get real production, but open up numerous other big plays which he never sees credit for (fakes that end up with deep passes). When given the ball moving up field in any kind of space (wheel and slant routes especially) i would bet his numbers sky rocket. He has certainly had injuries hamper him, and on a team with that many weapons, there are weeks (honestly months) where he can play nothing but decoy. After growing up watching buffalo football (post superbowl) and now seeing him.... its just a whole different type of player to evaluate.

[PDaDdy]

But ya see, the same thing was probably said about Roscoe Parrish, wouldn't you agree? And, you could also throw in the special teams factor ala Spiller.

 

What scares me (and I think a fair amount of others) is NOT Spiller himself, or even Spiller going at #9. It is the Bills using their best resources primarily on small, and in the case perhaps a part time skill player. Hopefully this will end, and the Bills can resume winning football games.

 

 

Roscoe Parrish and Bush/Spiller shouldn't even be mentioned in the same paragraph much less in the same sentence like I just did. I am trying to entertain this as a serious question but when you start throwing in Roscoe Parrish you are reaching to unsuccessfully try to make a point. Chris Johnson and Reggie Bush are more the options for what Spiller could become and will be used for. They are all built the same. But Spiller is a better WR like Bush and he has sub 4.3 speed like Chris Johnson.

[PDaDdy]

If he can stay healthier than Reggie Bush, I would take RB's rookie numbers all day long: 565 rushing yds., 88 recpections for 742 yds...9 total Tds (1 punt return).

 

As I said in the first page of this thread. We should be so lucky!!!

[stuckincincy]

Come on Cincy. The PAc 10 is one of the most overrated conferences in America. The only teams that are consistently good have been USC and Oregon. At the very least, teh ACC and the Pac 10 are equal and a lot of people probably would give the edge to the ACC.

 

I merely posed a simple question, with an observation. I don't know why it is to be thought that I have an axe or agenda to grind...

[Steve0022]

The problem with Reggie Bush is that he doesn't understand how to carry the ball in the NFL. Often he tries to make the big play instead of taking the yards that are available. Before he came out I was watching a USC game with some friends and the announcers were talking about Bush possibly being the number one pick. I thought it was odd that they would say that considering Bush wasn't even the best back on his own team. Lendale White took the bulk of the carries between the tackles and the hard short yards. However, if you watch C.J. Spiller, he understands how to carry the ball between the tackles and get what is available. That's why he'll have more success in the NFL as running back.

[stuckincincy]

The problem with Reggie Bush is that he doesn't understand how to carry the ball in the NFL. Often he tries to make the big play instead of taking the yards that are available. Before he came out I was watching a USC game with some friends and the announcers were talking about Bush possibly being the number one pick. I thought it was odd that they would say that considering Bush wasn't even the best back on his own team. Lendale White took the bulk of the carries between the tackles and the hard short yards. However, if you watch C.J. Spiller, he understands how to carry the ball between the tackles and get what is available. That's why he'll have more success in the NFL as running back.

 

Any opinion about how he blocks for his qb or receivers and other rbs? Does he come back and help a qb under the gun? I've asked those questions before, and haven't got an opinion yet.

 

Blocking skill by a back - especially in today's one-back scheme - matters.

[NoSaint]

The problem with Reggie Bush is that he doesn't understand how to carry the ball in the NFL. Often he tries to make the big play instead of taking the yards that are available. Before he came out I was watching a USC game with some friends and the announcers were talking about Bush possibly being the number one pick. I thought it was odd that they would say that considering Bush wasn't even the best back on his own team. Lendale White took the bulk of the carries between the tackles and the hard short yards. However, if you watch C.J. Spiller, he understands how to carry the ball between the tackles and get what is available. That's why he'll have more success in the NFL as running back.

 

But thats the thing -- his ability to produce that big play, makes everyone around him better at there jobs. Its not something you want every down, but that explosive ability changes the game. Pierre Thomas and Bell were the grind it out backs last year. Bush was the one that "opened things up." Picture Jackson and Lynch filling that role, with Spiller hitting homeruns every game or two.

[PDaDdy]

Any opinion about how he blocks for his qb or receivers and other rbs? Does he come back and help a qb under the gun? I've asked those questions before, and haven't got an opinion yet.

 

Blocking skill by a back - especially in today's one-back scheme - matters.

 

 

I don't know if he is any better or worse than any other RB coming out of college. It would be silly to say that those things aren't great heads up savvy veteran qualities but he is a RUNNING back!!!! His primary jobs are running the ball, catching the ball and being a special teams ace until he proves to valuable to risk using in that role.

 

You wonder why people think you have an axe to grind? It could be because you are casting doubt and focusing on the minutia and not on what he overwhelmingly brings to the table. Yes those things are important. To make sure you didn't miss that, YES those things are important but the skills you mention are not even in the top 5 things I look for in a RB.

[BillsFanInLV]

The Spiller pick is already resignating throughout the Bills RB corps.

 

Jackson (a guy that has ALWAYS been underestimated) is already looking to 'prove' his worth. His heart as well as ability will only elevate his play.

 

Lynch has already spoken on how he wants to "restore his reputation" as a viable NFL back. This should also increase his game (or be the final nail in his coffin if he doesn't live up to it.)

 

Because all three backs posess different skill sets, I believe there will be specific down/distance scenerios that each are used.

 

In comparing to Bush........Bell, Thomas, Bush and McCallister all thrived at different points of the season(s)

----Granted, we don't have Brees behind center but an intelligent use of each back is the point being made.

[NoSaint]

The Spiller pick is already resignating throughout the Bills RB corps.

 

Jackson (a guy that has ALWAYS been underestimated) is already looking to 'prove' his worth. His heart as well as ability will only elevate his play.

 

Lynch has already spoken on how he wants to "restore his reputation" as a viable NFL back. This should also increase his game (or be the final nail in his coffin if he doesn't live up to it.)

 

Because all three backs posess different skill sets, I believe there will be specific down/distance scenerios that each are used.

 

In comparing to Bush........Bell, Thomas, Bush and McCallister all thrived at different points of the season(s)

----Granted, we don't have Brees behind center but an intelligent use of each back is the point being made.

 

 

It also allows you to gameplan for the defense better -- small and quick? pound marshawn. Big thumpers, let spiller out run them. It takes pressure off the qb to have the 3 skill sets available. if a defense is well suited to stop one style, you have other alternatives instead of putting it all on the qbs shoulders.

[PDaDdy]

It also allows you to gameplan for the defense better -- small and quick? pound marshawn. Big thumpers, let spiller out run them. It takes pressure off the qb to have the 3 skill sets available. if a defense is well suited to stop one style, you have other alternatives instead of putting it all on the qbs shoulders.

 

 

What does Jackson bring to the table again? We know it's not TDs

[NoSaint]

Also -- Reggie in the playoffs -- i think its 5 games? 5 touchdowns.

 

 

 

Rushing: 33 ATT - 188 YDS - 5.6 YPC - 2 TD

Receiving: 20 REC - 249 YDS - 12.4 YPC - 2 TD

Returning: 10 RET - 144 YDS - 14.4 YPR- 1 TD

 

 

Looks like 2 returns, 6 carries, 4 receptions, about 90 yards from scrimmage and 30 return yards, 1 td per game averaged. He is also considered the best of the blockers in the backfield. If Spiller can on a semi regular basis put those numbers up, I am more then happy

[NoSaint]

What does Jackson bring to the table again? We know it's not TDs

 

 

Honestly, hes a strong versatile back that is well suited to run with either. I would compare him to Pierre Thomas if we are sticking with the NO backfield. Maybe not the greatest at any one aspect, but right up there in all dimensions. Probably get the bulk of the work week in and week out with the other two coming in situationally to dictate to a defense.

[Mickey]

Why is Chris Johnson any better than Reggie Bush? They're the same size? Who knows...maybe it's heart.

 

Why can't that big guy I saw in the supermarket the other day play center for us? He's the exact same size as Nick Mangold?

Really, I can't imagine any team not wanting a guy with Spiller's talent and character on the roster. Sure, you can argue that we needed other guys more than CJ. But how can you be disappointed in having Spiller? Joe Cribbs only faster, stronger and with a better attitude. Nothing is a gurantee but chances are as good as were are going to get that this guy will warm up that cold scoreboard at the Ralph.

 

Then again, I even like the Levi Brown pick so I guess no one should listen to me. I think its always a good idea to have a developmental type QB on the roster.

[RealityCheck]

For all the negativity on this board I am surprised that more people are not concerned like me that spiller will be just another reggie bush. Bush demonstrated that smallish fast rbs who need open spaces may not seem so fast or elusive at all at the next level. Bush was considered a once in a generation player coming out of college. Instant offense. A cant miss prospect So much so that the texans were ridiculed at levels not seen before or since for picking a franchise defensive end ahead of bush. What could bush get in a trade today. A fourth? Before last year anyone would have taken lynch over bush straight up. Can someone explain why spiller will be better than bush so I feel better about this pick and the season.

What exactly happened that makes Spiller predestined to be identical to Reggie Bush?

[Bill from NYC]

Roscoe Parrish and Bush/Spiller shouldn't even be mentioned in the same paragraph much less in the same sentence like I just did. I am trying to entertain this as a serious question but when you start throwing in Roscoe Parrish you are reaching to unsuccessfully try to make a point. Chris Johnson and Reggie Bush are more the options for what Spiller could become and will be used for. They are all built the same. But Spiller is a better WR like Bush and he has sub 4.3 speed like Chris Johnson.

 

I hope you are right, but my point was that building a team as such leads to failure. If you think that despite the Bills failures, small skill palyers are the way to build a franchise, perhaps we should agree to disagree.

[thewildrabbit]

If all the Bills needed was a great 3rd down back like Bush...

[billsfan89]

Well from what he did out of college Spiller had less talent around him and carried the ball much more between the tackles. Spiller and Bush were both game breaking returners and receivers BUT Bush wasn't a between the tackles runner coming out of college while Spiller is considered a between the tackles runner at least somewhat out of college.

 

All in all I think Spiller is a much more complete player then Bush coming out of college. Hopefully Lynch achieves his potential as a power back then we have a nice thunder and lighting combo with him and Spiller.

[stuckincincy]

Really, I can't imagine any team not wanting a guy with Spiller's talent and character on the roster. Sure, you can argue that we needed other guys more than CJ. But how can you be disappointed in having Spiller? Joe Cribbs only faster, stronger and with a better attitude. Nothing is a gurantee but chances are as good as were are going to get that this guy will warm up that cold scoreboard at the Ralph.

 

Then again, I even like the Levi Brown pick so I guess no one should listen to me. I think its always a good idea to have a developmental type QB on the roster.

I also like to have a developmental qb on the roster.

 

The two game day roster chaps better get it done. If they can't , the young Mr. Spiller has to get used to his body being riddled with cleat marks.

[mob16151]

I'll gladly take a guy(spiller) with 21 career touchdowns of 50 yards or more in his college career.

[Kipers Hair]

He could be Chris Johnson, he could be Reggie Bush, he could be yet another turd in the punch bowl. Time will tell.

[Rob's House]

I hope you are right, but my point was that building a team as such leads to failure. If you think that despite the Bills failures, small skill palyers are the way to build a franchise, perhaps we should agree to disagree.

 

I would agree that the way to build a franchise is to start with the big men up front, but if you don't have a guy whose value matches the pick, sometimes you have to take the dynamic playmaker and hope you can build the trenches when the value is there.

[uncle flap]

I would agree that the way to build a franchise is to start with the big men up front, but if you don't have a guy whose value matches the pick, sometimes you have to take the dynamic playmaker and hope you can build the trenches when the value is there.

 

and somehow this idea is difficult for many to fathom

[John from Riverside]

At what pick exactly was Reggie Bush drafted?

 

Where did we pick up Spiller?

[Geno Smith's Arm]

Reggie Bush peaked in college. His problem isn't his size, or skill set, it's his head. He is a selfish, spoiled D-bag. Watch the interviews with Spiller. He comes across well, and has a humble vibe. I think he will be better than Bush.

[bladiebla]

Reggie Bush peaked in college. His problem isn't his size, or skill set, it's his head. He is a selfish, spoiled D-bag. Watch the interviews with Spiller. He comes across well, and has a humble vibe. I think he will be better than Bush.

 

 

Just wait untill Lynch takes him out to teach him the ways of the NFL off the field... :/

[RalphW]

For all the negativity on this board I am surprised that more people are not concerned like me that spiller will be just another reggie bush. Bush demonstrated that smallish fast rbs who need open spaces may not seem so fast or elusive at all at the next level. Bush was considered a once in a generation player coming out of college. Instant offense. A cant miss prospect So much so that the texans were ridiculed at levels not seen before or since for picking a franchise defensive end ahead of bush. What could bush get in a trade today. A fourth? Before last year anyone would have taken lynch over bush straight up. Can someone explain why spiller will be better than bush so I feel better about this pick and the season.

No offense to cj but at this point u can't say that he is better than anyone. He hasn't played an NFL down for Christ sake.

[NoSaint]

Reggie Bush peaked in college. His problem isn't his size, or skill set, it's his head. He is a selfish, spoiled D-bag. Watch the interviews with Spiller. He comes across well, and has a humble vibe. I think he will be better than Bush.

 

 

thats one of the least educated comments ive ever seen about bush -- hes been nothing but humble and accepted gracefully not being "the star" of the team. he can go weeks without serious touches and has never complained. active and hugely positive role model in a very needy community.

[BADOLBILZ]

For all the negativity on this board I am surprised that more people are not concerned like me that spiller will be just another reggie bush. Bush demonstrated that smallish fast rbs who need open spaces may not seem so fast or elusive at all at the next level. Bush was considered a once in a generation player coming out of college. Instant offense. A cant miss prospect So much so that the texans were ridiculed at levels not seen before or since for picking a franchise defensive end ahead of bush. What could bush get in a trade today. A fourth? Before last year anyone would have taken lynch over bush straight up. Can someone explain why spiller will be better than bush so I feel better about this pick and the season.

 

I don't worry about how CJ Spiller is actually going to play because regardless of how he plays he won't be the deciding factor people expect he will be.

 

Steven Jackson and Chris Johnson were incredible last year. It would be difficult for Spiller to achieve those kind of numbers.

 

They watched the playoffs at home.

 

Jackson's team drafted first overall.

 

It's a QB driven league, and contrary to popular opinion here, good RB play does not equate to good QB play. Spiller is the third RB the Bills have drafted in round 1 since 2003 yet they haven't figured this out. They keep repeating their mistakes and expecting different results.

[Fingon]

I don't worry about how CJ Spiller is actually going to play because regardless of how he plays he won't be the deciding factor people expect he will be.

 

Steven Jackson and Chris Johnson were incredible last year. It would be difficult for Spiller to achieve those kind of numbers.

 

They watched the playoffs at home.

 

Jackson's team drafted first overall.

 

It's a QB driven league, and contrary to popular opinion here, good RB play does not equate to good QB play. Spiller is the third RB the Bills have drafted in round 1 since 2003 yet they haven't figured this out. They keep repeating their mistakes and expecting different results.

So we should have drafted what QB at #9?

[BillsVet]

I don't worry about how CJ Spiller is actually going to play because regardless of how he plays he won't be the deciding factor people expect he will be.

 

Of the many wild claims from Nix this off-season, perhaps the strangest was claiming Spiller will make the OL better. For all the talk about Chris Johnson, Reggie Bush, and others, all of them had good to excellent offensive line's in front of them. I would argue STL's OL in 2009 was better run blocking than Buffalo's will be in 2010.

 

Besides, with the team having few offensive weapons to draw attention from Spiller, defenses can stack the LOS on Buffalo. Reading TBD, it's as if teams will be surprised that the guy is as fast as he is. Sure.

[Fingon]

Of the many wild claims from Nix this off-season, perhaps the strangest was claiming Spiller will make the OL better. For all the talk about Chris Johnson, Reggie Bush, and others, all of them had good to excellent offensive line's in front of them. I would argue STL's OL in 2009 was better run blocking than Buffalo's will be in 2010.

 

Besides, with the team having few offensive weapons to draw attention from Spiller, defenses can stack the LOS on Buffalo. Reading TBD, it's as if teams will be surprised that the guy is as fast as he is. Sure.

It's a simple concept. Spiller is fast enough that the offensive line doesn't have to sustain holes as long. Anyone who studies the game (Nix) would know this. Holes in the NFL close in tenths of a second, and hitting it fast and hard really helps out your line.

[BillsVet]

It's a simple concept. Spiller is fast enough that the offensive line doesn't have to sustain holes as long. Anyone who studies the game (Nix) would know this. Holes in the NFL close in tenths of a second, and hitting it fast and hard really helps out your line.

 

It's also a simple concept for defenses to stack the LOS with 8 and 9 guys. If you have offensive lineman beaten at the POA, Spiller's speed is quickly negated. Defenses aren't going with the DJ philosophy and wait to be attacked; they'll look to stop a predominantly running based offensive at or before the LOS.

[billsrcursed]

Reggie Bush peaked in college. His problem isn't his size, or skill set, it's his head. He is a selfish, spoiled D-bag. Watch the interviews with Spiller. He comes across well, and has a humble vibe. I think he will be better than Bush.

 

You know, you really say some stupid *@$# sometimes...

[thewildrabbit]

Of the many wild claims from Nix this off-season, perhaps the strangest was claiming Spiller will make the OL better. For all the talk about Chris Johnson, Reggie Bush, and others, all of them had good to excellent offensive line's in front of them. I would argue STL's OL in 2009 was better run blocking than Buffalo's will be in 2010.

 

Besides, with the team having few offensive weapons to draw attention from Spiller, defenses can stack the LOS on Buffalo. Reading TBD, it's as if teams will be surprised that the guy is as fast as he is. Sure.

Wasn't it Gailey who stated Spiller makes the line better? Either way both are in for a rude shock when the "water-bug gets swatted at the line and can't make plays.

 

I firmly believe that you build a team from the line up, if the line is no good then the offense is no good and will struggle in every area.

 

About the only Bills coaches / GM that understood this were the ones who built the electric Co line for OJ and Bill Polian by getting C Kent Hull from the USFL and LT Will Wolford a first round pick in 1986, he already had a #1 pick in G Jim Ritcher

 

Gee, a novel concept...drafting a LT with a #1 pick , only Bill Polian would be that foolish. Has the Bills O line even been remotely close to that good since the 90's Bills?

 

Don't get me wrong, I like the Spiller pick... its just that Nix should have pulled a Polian** and drafted Spiller and then traded back up in the first and gotten Bulaga.

 

 

 

 

** Polian drafted Ronnie Harmon and Wilford in the first round in 86

[mpl6876]

Better yet, Reggie Bush has a TD every 25 touches, Chris Johnson has a TD every 27 touches.

 

Reggie Bush is an impact player. He is not an every down player, but he impacts every game. He has had injuries that really kept him from ever being more than a situational type player, but he still makes an impact.

 

Time will tell if Spiller becomes that "impact player" for the Bills. Impact players or like I like to say "situational players" are very crucial and critical to helping a team win. Darren Sproles and Reggie Bush are first to come to mind. The problem I have is these types of players need to be on solid winning teams to be effective. These players don't produce as well on medicore teams for obvious reasons. The Bills are medicore at best. With little other offensvie weapons, I feel Spiller will not be very effective with the Bills. I know the agrument can be made that he is a piece of the puzzle for the future. I hope that is correct.

[Fingon]

It's also a simple concept for defenses to stack the LOS with 8 and 9 guys. If you have offensive lineman beaten at the POA, Spiller's speed is quickly negated. Defenses aren't going with the DJ philosophy and wait to be attacked; they'll look to stop a predominantly running based offensive at or before the LOS.

Then you have this terrific concept of splitting CJ out wide. OOOOOOHHH magical, right?

[PDaDdy]

QUOTE (ThrowIt @ May 26 2010, 07:12 PM) *

Reggie Bush peaked in college. His problem isn't his size, or skill set, it's his head. He is a selfish, spoiled D-bag. Watch the interviews with Spiller. He comes across well, and has a humble vibe. I think he will be better than Bush.

 

thats one of the least educated comments ive ever seen about bush -- hes been nothing but humble and accepted gracefully not being "the star" of the team. he can go weeks without serious touches and has never complained. active and hugely positive role model in a very needy community.

 

I agree. Reggie Bush has been a good NFL player who also by the way has been getting killed by injuries. I have also heard absolutely word ZERO that he is anything but a quality player. Some uniformed ignorant people think all football players are trouble making d-bags.

[PDaDdy]

I don't worry about how CJ Spiller is actually going to play because regardless of how he plays he won't be the deciding factor people expect he will be.

 

Steven Jackson and Chris Johnson were incredible last year. It would be difficult for Spiller to achieve those kind of numbers.

 

They watched the playoffs at home.

 

Jackson's team drafted first overall.

 

It's a QB driven league, and contrary to popular opinion here, good RB play does not equate to good QB play. Spiller is the third RB the Bills have drafted in round 1 since 2003 yet they haven't figured this out. They keep repeating their mistakes and expecting different results.

 

 

Our RB choices haven't been the problem. Our RBs have been a STRENGTH. Willis McGahee who was actually something of a D-bag is doing just great in Baltimore racking up TDs. He is the same running back perhaps even slower but he is much more productive. Perhaps it is the TEAM around him. The problem isn't us having drafted 3 RBs in the first round in the last 11 years. The problem has been who we HAVEN'T drafted with our other picks. Our problem is also our inability to pay and keep our quality free agents AND attract even more!

[PDaDdy]

It's also a simple concept for defenses to stack the LOS with 8 and 9 guys. If you have offensive lineman beaten at the POA, Spiller's speed is quickly negated. Defenses aren't going with the DJ philosophy and wait to be attacked; they'll look to stop a predominantly running based offensive at or before the LOS.

 

If defenses stack the line with 8 or 9 imagine the opportunities we will have in the passing game!!!!!!! WITH Spiller in the backfield he can swing out and we instantly now have an advantage with too many WR/TE and RBs to cover. We don't know for certain but Gailey comes billed as a guy that can make those types of creative strategies and plays work.