why is CJ any better than reggie bush?

[PDaDdy]

Wasn't it Gailey who stated Spiller makes the line better? Either way both are in for a rude shock when the "water-bug gets swatted at the line and can't make plays.

 

I firmly believe that you build a team from the line up, if the line is no good then the offense is no good and will struggle in every area.

 

About the only Bills coaches / GM that understood this were the ones who built the electric Co line for OJ and Bill Polian by getting C Kent Hull from the USFL and LT Will Wolford a first round pick in 1986, he already had a #1 pick in G Jim Ritcher

 

Gee, a novel concept...drafting a LT with a #1 pick , only Bill Polian would be that foolish. Has the Bills O line even been remotely close to that good since the 90's Bills?

 

Don't get me wrong, I like the Spiller pick... its just that Nix should have pulled a Polian** and drafted Spiller and then traded back up in the first and gotten Bulaga.

 

 

 

 

** Polian drafted Ronnie Harmon and Wilford in the first round in 86

 

Spiller at 5'11" 200lbs is a water bug? Really? What would you call Thurman Thomas by comparison? What would you call Chris Johnson who is exactly the same size?

[PDaDdy]

Any opinion about how he blocks for his qb or receivers and other rbs? Does he come back and help a qb under the gun? I've asked those questions before, and haven't got an opinion yet.

 

Blocking skill by a back - especially in today's one-back scheme - matters.

 

From buffalobills.com OTA's DAy 2 article...

 

"C.J. Spiller did a nice job coming back to the ball on a broken pass play and gave Brohm a target as he rolled away from pressure to the sideline. Spiller made a diving catch near the goal line for the reception."

[JPS]

A speedy back slows down the pass rush, moves the chains and maybe puts unexpected points on the board with a big run or a screen pass.

 

I agree with whomever posted the number 4.28. Speed is everything in this league.

[PDaDdy]

A speedy back slows down the pass rush, moves the chains and maybe puts unexpected points on the board with a big run or a screen pass.

 

I agree with whomever posted the number 4.28. Speed is everything in this league.

 

 

[stuckincincy]

From buffalobills.com OTA's DAy 2 article...

 

"C.J. Spiller did a nice job coming back to the ball on a broken pass play and gave Brohm a target as he rolled away from pressure to the sideline. Spiller made a diving catch near the goal line for the reception."

 

 

Thanks! - that's good to hear.

[PDaDdy]

Thanks! - that's good to hear.

 

 

It wasn't an easy catch for a RB either but Spiller made the reception. It's in the video on the bills website.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

Reggie Bush has 31 TDs in 52 NFL games. That is on par with our offensive TDs the past 52 games

 

 

Thats over 9 TD's per season. There is not a pair of Bills on the Roster at any position that have averaged that... I'll take it!

[PDaDdy]

Thats over 9 TD's per season. There is not a pair of Bills on the Roster at any position that have averaged that... I'll take it!

 

Lynch did before being demoted.

[thebandit27]

Wasn't it Gailey who stated Spiller makes the line better? Either way both are in for a rude shock when the "water-bug gets swatted at the line and can't make plays.

 

Buffalo's OL blocked well enough for the running game to rank 8th in the league in yards per carry and 16th in yards per game in 2009. I can't imagine that they'll be either (a) less talented or (b) less healthy in 2010, so with all due respect, it's probably not Gailey or Nix that are in for the rude shock.

 

I firmly believe that you build a team from the line up, if the line is no good then the offense is no good and will struggle in every area.

 

There are probably some Green Bay and Pittsburgh fans that disagree with you.

 

About the only Bills coaches / GM that understood this were the ones who built the electric Co line for OJ and Bill Polian by getting C Kent Hull from the USFL and LT Will Wolford a first round pick in 1986, he already had a #1 pick in G Jim Ritcher

 

Gee, a novel concept...drafting a LT with a #1 pick , only Bill Polian would be that foolish. Has the Bills O line even been remotely close to that good since the 90's Bills?

 

Must be why not one single starter from the Colts' offensive line was drafted prior to the 3rd round, and 4 out of 5 were drafted in the 5th round or later (unless of course, guys like Mike Pollak and Tony Ugoh manage to earn the starting jobs back that they lost last pre-season).

 

Don't get me wrong, I like the Spiller pick... its just that Nix should have pulled a Polian** and drafted Spiller and then traded back up in the first and gotten Bulaga.

 

What makes you think that he had the opportunity to do so?

[PushthePile]

1. IMO, Reggie Bush is a difference maker in this league. He happens to play on a team that is loaded with difference makers and has had some injuries as well. I find it strange that one of the posters claimed he is selfish. The Saints are loaded with talent and also equally loaded with unselfish team players. CJ Spiller is said to be the ultimate team first kind of guy, and in my mind the type of player that teams like the Colts and Saints would covet.

 

2. CJ Spiller has the ability to make our QB and O-line better. Forget about the obvious comparisons in Bush and Chris Johnson. Look no further than what Jerome Harrison did for the Browns last year. Harrison had that putrid Browns offense moving at the end of the season. A guy like Felix Jones makes a tremendous difference for the Cowboys and when he's not healthy you see a big difference. Darren Sproles has won games for the Chargers in the past, the types of games where absolutely nothing was working.

 

It only takes a few long plays or even just a few scares, for a defense to sit back a little longer. Without that real homerun threat, defense can just pin their ears back and attack. Spiller will make everyone better, even his fellow RBs. I love the idea of Spiller outside and Jackson or Lynch in the backfield. He can take the bite out of alot of defenses.

 

3. Get over the pick! Yeah, I know Bill Polian this and Bill polian that, you build from the lines out blah blah blah blah. It's the same regurgitated crap from some of you. Why is it so hard for some to think outside the box? Their are lots of ways to skin a cat and build a winning football team. You can swear to one specific way if you want but you make yourself look simple doing that. Look around the league and you will find many different styles that work.

 

You know what the best way to build a football team is? Aquire the best talent. CJ Spiller was the best player available at 9 according to the Bills and most experts but it won't stop the honks from speculating about what Polian or Parcells would have done.

[C.Biscuit97]

Buffalo's OL blocked well enough for the running game to rank 8th in the league in yards per carry and 16th in yards per game in 2009. I can't imagine that they'll be either (a) less talented or (b) less healthy in 2010, so with all due respect, it's probably not Gailey or Nix that are in for the rude shock.

 

 

 

There are probably some Green Bay and Pittsburgh fans that disagree with you.

 

 

 

Must be why not one single starter from the Colts' offensive line was drafted prior to the 3rd round, and 4 out of 5 were drafted in the 5th round or later (unless of course, guys like Mike Pollak and Tony Ugoh manage to earn the starting jobs back that they lost last pre-season).

 

 

 

What makes you think that he had the opportunity to do so?

 

 

Quiet down now. There is only one way to build a team. Draft all olinemen in the 1st rounds and then fill in the rest of the team in later rounds.

[stuckincincy]

Buffalo's OL blocked well enough for the running game to rank 8th in the league in yards per carry and 16th in yards per game in 2009.

 

Their passing game was abysmal. Their OL was huge question mark from game 1, no bench to speak of. So they ran and hoped they were on the positive side of the score when the clock hit 60:00. As an opponent, I love to see a team chew up that clock while I have the lead.

 

There is no defending a 6-10 record. 2 and 4 in the AFC East last season, 0 and 6 the season before. Now we have a new staff that sashayed into town and decided that their LBs are going to be flipped over to a 3 - 4.

[Deep2Moulds46]

I don't pretend to watch hours upon hours of college football leading up to the draft like some people on here claim....but I do have a couple connections in the NFL scouting circles whom I pick the brain of every year pre-draft.

 

For what it's worth, I specifically asked both of them about Spiller prior to the Bills taking him, and they both said that while he has the speed and elusiveness to be a gamebreaker, he also has plenty of college game tape where he shows a willingness to run inside, an understanding of showing patience, waiting for his blocking to develop and unlike a lot of 4.2 speed backs, he understands not every play is a 60 yard run, and he does a great job of keeping his offense on schedule.

 

Just an FYI.

 

Reggie Bush never ran inside at college.

 

 

 

Also, for what it's worth....if Reggie Bush were on the Bills, he would still be one of our top 5 players.

[thebandit27]

Their passing game was abysmal. Their OL was huge question mark from game 1, no bench to speak of. So they ran and hoped they were on the positive side of the score when the clock hit 60:00. As an opponent, I love to see a team chew up that clock while I have the lead.

 

There is no defending a 6-10 record. 2 and 4 in the AFC East last season, 0 and 6 the season before. Now we have a new staff that sashayed into town and decided that their LBs are going to be flipped over to a 3 - 4.

 

Are you sure that you responded to the right post?

 

At no point did I...

 

...claim that their passing game was anything other than horid

...prop up their offensive line in any way, other than to point out that the team's YPG and YPC ranked respectably in 2009

...attempt to defend their record

...prop up the new coaching staff or their new system

 

If anything, the fact that they had zero passing offense and no offensive line depth speaks volumes about how a good RB can make an OL more effective. Again, I can't envision a senario where the OL is (a) less talented or (b) less healthy than in 2009, can you?

 

Forgive me cincy, but I'm very confused as to what part of my post you're arguing...

[thebandit27]

Quiet down now. There is only one way to build a team. Draft all olinemen in the 1st rounds and then fill in the rest of the team in later rounds.

 

Ah yes, I forgot. My bad.

[thebandit27]

I don't pretend to watch hours upon hours of college football leading up to the draft like some people on here claim....but I do have a couple connections in the NFL scouting circles whom I pick the brain of every year pre-draft.

 

For what it's worth, I specifically asked both of them about Spiller prior to the Bills taking him, and they both said that while he has the speed and elusiveness to be a gamebreaker, he also has plenty of college game tape where he shows a willingness to run inside, an understanding of showing patience, waiting for his blocking to develop and unlike a lot of 4.2 speed backs, he understands not every play is a 60 yard run, and he does a great job of keeping his offense on schedule.

 

Just an FYI.

 

Reggie Bush never ran inside at college.

 

 

 

Also, for what it's worth....if Reggie Bush were on the Bills, he would still be one of our top 5 players.

 

Agree with most of this, but there is one part with which I take exception.

 

Reggie Bush actually ran inside plenty of times in college. In his Junior season, the Trojans became fond of using LenDale White inside to tire teams out, then they'd bring in Bush to run an identical inside trap play. He'd make his first move through the hole and wouldn't bounce his run outside until he cleared the line. It's a point of minutia discussion-wise, but it's very similar to the kind of inside running that guys like Spiller and Chris Johnson do more often than not.

 

But other than that, your post is spot on.

[NoSaint]

I don't pretend to watch hours upon hours of college football leading up to the draft like some people on here claim....but I do have a couple connections in the NFL scouting circles whom I pick the brain of every year pre-draft.

 

For what it's worth, I specifically asked both of them about Spiller prior to the Bills taking him, and they both said that while he has the speed and elusiveness to be a gamebreaker, he also has plenty of college game tape where he shows a willingness to run inside, an understanding of showing patience, waiting for his blocking to develop and unlike a lot of 4.2 speed backs, he understands not every play is a 60 yard run, and he does a great job of keeping his offense on schedule.

 

Just an FYI.

 

Reggie Bush never ran inside at college.

 

 

 

Also, for what it's worth....if Reggie Bush were on the Bills, he would still be one of our top 5 players.

 

 

Would anyone care to venture who the others would be ahead of him? honest question...

 

if we got a bush like player in spiller, he might instantly be the best player on the team.

[Geno Smith's Arm]

thats one of the least educated comments ive ever seen about bush -- hes been nothing but humble and accepted gracefully not being "the star" of the team. he can go weeks without serious touches and has never complained. active and hugely positive role model in a very needy community.

 

Really? No one "humble" would become involved with a Kardashian in some kind of celebrity rag coupling.

 

He is considered a selfish pr!k in LA. Many stories of his entitled behavior from people in the USC program. Just because he does charity work in NO doesn't mean he is a saint! He and Leinart, as well as many other recent USC guys, get the star treatment in Los Angeles, and surrounded by talent at USC, believe their own hype.

[NoSaint]

Really? No one "humble" would become involved with a Kardashian in some kind of celebrity rag coupling.

 

He is considered a selfish pr!k in LA. Many stories of his entitled behavior from people in the USC program. Just because he does charity work in NO doesn't mean he is a saint! He and Leinart, as well as many other recent USC guys, get the star treatment in Los Angeles, and surrounded by talent at USC, believe their own hype.

 

 

i live like two blocks from him. I on a regular basis see him out, and know on a personal basis many people that interact with him day to day during the season. He, and many other players frequent the bar at the end of my block, never seen him act like a selfish prick. but yes, im sure what you read in the celebrity rags is accurate. the fact that he has been nothing but a team player, and does community service you would never imagine should totally be overruled by the fact he dated kim k. im not saying he is a perfect shining example and has never ever done anything you could point to for your argument but hes a pretty solid dude from my experience. even in his play on field he has said something about staying grounded too== developing into the best blocking back on the team for example. most prima donnas dont really worry about things like that.

 

yes he did go to usc and has a LA lifestyle. he is a celebrity, but that does not make him a prick. you just come off jealous.

[billsrcursed]

i live like two blocks from him. I on a regular basis see him out, and know on a personal basis many people that interact with him day to day during the season. He, and many other players frequent the bar at the end of my block, never seen him act like a selfish prick. but yes, im sure what you read in the celebrity rags is accurate. the fact that he has been nothing but a team player, and does community service you would never imagine should totally be overruled by the fact he dated kim k. im not saying he is a perfect shining example and has never ever done anything you could point to for your argument but hes a pretty solid dude from my experience. even in his play on field he has said something about staying grounded too== developing into the best blocking back on the team for example. most prima donnas dont really worry about things like that.

 

yes he did go to usc and has a LA lifestyle. he is a celebrity, but that does not make him a prick. you just come off jealous.

 

You're completely wasting your time. Let him/her believe what they read in their celebrity magazines.

 

This is a place to discuss Football related topics, not to fling pooh on guys because you heard from TMZ that Reggie is mean and arrogant.

 

A simple, STFU reply would suffice instead.

[Mr. Dink]

But I thought if he doesn't get 30 carries per game and double the all-time rushing record in year one, he's a bust?

Your avatar

[Bill from NYC]

Ah yes, I forgot. My bad.

 

In the meantime, those playoff wins just keep on coming at Orchard Park!

[Bill from NYC]

Thanks! - that's good to hear.

 

[eball]

But ya see, the same thing was probably said about Roscoe Parrish, wouldn't you agree? And, you could also throw in the special teams factor ala Spiller.

 

What scares me (and I think a fair amount of others) is NOT Spiller himself, or even Spiller going at #9. It is the Bills using their best resources primarily on small, and in the case perhaps a part time skill player. Hopefully this will end, and the Bills can resume winning football games.

"This is an automated response."

 

Size of Buffalo's 2nd and 3rd round picks in 2010: 6'3", 314 lbs and 6'5", 285 lbs.

[thewildrabbit]

I said:

Wasn't it Gailey who stated Spiller makes the line better? Either way both are in for a rude shock when the "water-bug gets swatted at the line and can't make plays.

 

'thebandit27 said:

Buffalo's OL blocked well enough for the running game to rank 8th in the league in yards per carry and 16th in yards per game in 2009. I can't imagine that they'll be either (a) less talented or (b) less healthy in 2010, so with all due respect, it's probably not Gailey or Nix that are in for the rude shock.

 

Actually it will be the "waterbug" that gets the rude shock

 

I said:

I firmly believe that you build a team from the line up, if the line is no good then the offense is no good and will struggle in every area.

thebandit27 said:

There are probably some Green Bay and Pittsburgh fans that disagree with you.

 

That reply makes sense coming from you, considering the Steeler's drafted a C with their #1 pick and the Packers drafted a LT with their #1 pick

 

 

I said:

About the only Bills coaches / GM that understood this were the ones who built the electric Co line for OJ and Bill Polian by getting C Kent Hull from the USFL and LT Will Wolford a first round pick in 1986, he already had a #1 pick in G Jim Ritcher

 

Gee, a novel concept...drafting a LT with a #1 pick , only Bill Polian would be that foolish. Has the Bills O line even been remotely close to that good since the 90's Bills?

 

thebandit27 said:

Must be why not one single starter from the Colts' offensive line was drafted prior to the 3rd round, and 4 out of 5 were drafted in the 5th round or later (unless of course, guys like Mike Pollak and Tony Ugoh manage to earn the starting jobs back that they lost last pre-season).

 

Do I shiv a git where Bill Polian found his players for Payton's O line? Heck no! What is important is that he is one of the fewest sacked-hurried-hit QB's in the NFL. Why not tell me about how great the Bills have been in finding O linemen since Polian left Buffalo.

 

I said:

Don't get me wrong, I like the Spiller pick... its just that Nix should have pulled a Polian** and drafted Spiller and then traded back up in the first and gotten Bulaga.

 

thebandit27 said:

What makes you think that he had the opportunity to do so?

What makes you think he didn't?

 

I think the Bills did in fact try and trade up to get Bulaga and didn't because either they were to slow or the price was to high. The Bills were rumored to be trying to trade up in the first, and many were saying it was for Tim Tebow.

 

I think it was for Bulaga and the fact that they were also interested Jared Gaither also tells me that they know they are lacking at the LT position. The fact that you think they are fine at LT are give me grief about it shows me what you know.

[PushthePile]

What makes you think he didn't?

 

I think the Bills did in fact try and trade up to get Bulaga and didn't because either they were to slow or the price was to high. The Bills were rumored to be trying to trade up in the first, and many were saying it was for Tim Tebow.

 

I think it was for Bulaga and the fact that they were also interested Jared Gaither also tells me that they know they are lacking at the LT position. The fact that you think they are fine at LT are give me grief about it shows me what you know.

Why do you put foolish statements into people's mouths and pretend it's going to go unnoticed? It's cheap and often shows an unwillingness to debate something. Bandit never came close to stating the Bills are fine at LT. What he did say, is that the line as whole was decent at run blocking. Which is a very accurate statement and one that punches a tremendous hole in your assumption that our new "waterbug" will get swatted at the line.

 

I'm not going to even address your Bulaga theory. It's possible sure but nothing more than a blind guess. Obviously, the Bills are exploring ways to upgrade the LT position. I would imagine half the NFL would like to upgrade their LT position.

[PushthePile]

But ya see, the same thing was probably said about Roscoe Parrish, wouldn't you agree? And, you could also throw in the special teams factor ala Spiller.

 

What scares me (and I think a fair amount of others) is NOT Spiller himself, or even Spiller going at #9. It is the Bills using their best resources primarily on small, and in the case perhaps a part time skill player. Hopefully this will end, and the Bills can resume winning football games.

Using primary resources on anything but the best player available is what should scare you. Large bodied players can turn into busts too.

 

I'll never understand why some fans think there is only one way to build a team. It's not like the o-line was the only missing link over the last 10 years. The Bills have been weak at various different positions for quite some time now and that is attributed to many reasons.

 

Getting the best players available will turn this around, not getting the biggest players. If they happen to be big, great. In the case of this year's draft, the Bills thought the best football player was a RB. I don't see much in the way of a decent argument contesting that. Who did you want Bill?

[thewildrabbit]

Why do you put foolish statements into people's mouths and pretend it's going to go unnoticed? It's cheap and often shows an unwillingness to debate something. Bandit never came close to stating the Bills are fine at LT. What he did say, is that the line as whole was decent at run blocking. Which is a very accurate statement and one that punches a tremendous hole in your assumption that our new "waterbug" will get swatted at the line.

 

I'm not going to even address your Bulaga theory. It's possible sure but nothing more than a blind guess. Obviously, the Bills are exploring ways to upgrade the LT position. I would imagine half the NFL would like to upgrade their LT position.

 

Yea well, I think your avatar shows your actual face... probably from smooching bandits butt.

 

If you read the entire thread and my original post he is giving me grief on every sentence over nothing, all going back to our old QB vs O line debate.

 

Just because the O line stats from last season show that the Bills were decent in run blocking doesn't take in account that Fred Jackson gained most of his yards after first contact. The Bills O line last season was the worst I've ever witnessed and that includes the 2-14 years. So in reality it punches a hole in nothing.

 

He is insinuating that the Colts don't waste #1 picks on the O line,so why should Buffalo. That statement plus his run blocking statement tells me he thinks the Bills O line will be fine this season "as is".

[NoSaint]

You're completely wasting your time. Let him/her believe what they read in their celebrity magazines.

 

This is a place to discuss Football related topics, not to fling pooh on guys because you heard from TMZ that Reggie is mean and arrogant.

 

A simple, STFU reply would suffice instead.

 

 

haha fair enough.

[thebandit27]

What makes you think he didn't?

 

I think the Bills did in fact try and trade up to get Bulaga and didn't because either they were to slow or the price was to high. The Bills were rumored to be trying to trade up in the first, and many were saying it was for Tim Tebow.

 

I think it was for Bulaga and the fact that they were also interested Jared Gaither also tells me that they know they are lacking at the LT position. The fact that you think they are fine at LT are give me grief about it shows me what you know.

 

Wow rabbit, I've seen you reach for some arguments before, but this is just poor; however, because I have a little extra time, I'll play along...

 

You said:

Wasn't it Gailey who stated Spiller makes the line better? Either way both are in for a rude shock when the "water-bug gets swatted at the line and can't make plays.

 

I said:

Buffalo's OL blocked well enough for the running game to rank 8th in the league in yards per carry and 16th in yards per game in 2009. I can't imagine that they'll be either (a) less talented or (b) less healthy in 2010, so with all due respect, it's probably not Gailey or Nix that are in for the rude shock.

 

To which you said:

Actually it will be the "waterbug" that gets the rude shock

 

To which I say:

If he believes as you do, that the run blocking is poor, then yes, he will be shocked when he finds out that a lesser version of this line helped the running game rank 8th in the NFL in yards per carry. However, I don't believe he'll find such adequate run blocking to be "rude". If you don't find a 4.5 ypc average, good for 8th best out of 32 teams, to be adequte, then what, my friend, would be acceptable blocking in the running game?

 

Why are you bothering to make completely random wild guesses about who the Bills may or may not have tried to trade up for? It has nothing to do with the run blocking last season. Also, if you can kindly show me where, at any point in my entire post history, I've said that this team was fine at LT, I'd really appreciate it. Until then, perhaps you can stop making things up, since this whole "Bandit thinks the team is fine at LT" thing coupled with the whole "I think the Bills tried to trade up for Bulaga" thing sort of makes it look like you talk out of a hole other than your mouth.

 

But I digress...

 

you said:

I firmly believe that you build a team from the line up, if the line is no good then the offense is no good and will struggle in every area.

 

I said:

There are probably some Green Bay and Pittsburgh fans that disagree with you.

 

to which you said:

That reply makes sense coming from you, considering the Steeler's drafted a C with their #1 pick and the Packers drafted a LT with their #1 pick

 

to which I say:

I'm aware that Pittsburgh and GB drafted offensive linemen, doesn't that augment my point there rabbit? If those teams drafted offensive linemen, and that indicates--as you believe--that they had poor offensive lines, doesn't the fact that GB and Pit had the #6 and #7 offenses in the league, respectively, mean that the offense won't necessarily struggle without a good offensive line? Wasn't that your original point, or did your first statement mean something completely different that you failed miserably to articulate?

 

Yea well, I think your avatar shows your actual face... probably from smooching bandits butt.

 

If you read the entire thread and my original post he is giving me grief on every sentence over nothing, all going back to our old QB vs O line debate.

 

Just because the O line stats from last season show that the Bills were decent in run blocking doesn't take in account that Fred Jackson gained most of his yards after first contact. The Bills O line last season was the worst I've ever witnessed and that includes the 2-14 years. So in reality it punches a hole in nothing.

 

He is insinuating that the Colts don't waste #1 picks on the O line,so why should Buffalo. That statement plus his run blocking statement tells me he thinks the Bills O line will be fine this season "as is".

 

Yes, giving you grief over nothing, you poor thing. Look, you shot off about how poor the run blocking was last season. I responded by pointing out to you that the team ranked 8th in the league in run blocking. You don't have to get pissy with someone who points out an error in your thinking; a simple "wow, I didn't realize that" would probably be more appropriate. However, if you're going to respond by arguing, it's often prudent to actually have a counter-point rather than simply whining.

 

Pretty much every statement you've made here is wrong. You can argue all day about how good Jackson was after contact, but as I've shown you many times, the only website that tracks such statistics (at least that I'm aware of) strongly disagrees with you:

 

http://footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol

 

As you'll see (if you actually read the link this time, since I'm relatively sure you haven't yet), Buffalo ranked 10th in the league in the "stuffed" category. The Bills also ranked 12th in the NFL in "Adjusted Line Yards", while ranking only 21st in "Open Field Yards". As Footbal Outsiders explains the difference:

 

"A team with a high ranking in Adjusted Line Yards but a low ranking in Open Field Yards is heavily dependent on its offensive line to make the running game work. A team with a low ranking in Adjusted Line Yards but a high ranking in Open Field Yards is heavily dependent on its running back breaking long runs to make the running game work."

 

That's pretty clear to me that the OL's run blocking was pretty good last year.

 

Regarding the Colts, you claimed that Bill Polian was the only GM foolish enough to draft a LT with a #1 pick. All I told you is that the current Colts line was built with late round picks. That can be done, you don't have to pick an offensive lineman in the first round every year if you know how to judge talent. Same goes for every other position.

 

As for your pointing and wailing about my comfort level with the LT position, let me make this perfectly clear for you: no, I don't think the LT position is in good shape, and I've never, ever, ever said anything close to that. What I continue to refute on this board, from people such as yourself, is that the LT position doesn't need to be manned by an all-pro before the rest of the team can be improved. Do I think last year's crop of LTs can get the job done? No. Do I think LT is an important position? Yes. Should Buffalo make every attempt to improve at LT? Yes. Should their current LT situation be an excuse for the team not getting any better? No.

 

All clear now?

[thebandit27]

In the meantime, those playoff wins just keep on coming at Orchard Park!

 

I like you, Bill. You are a good poster.

 

However, I think you are way too hung up on the idea that drafting small guys early = failure.

 

Teams are all built in different ways. But one thing I believe that all of the long-term-quality organizations have in common is this: they draft the best players they can, every year, regardless of position. Teams like Pittsburgh, New England, Indianapolis, Tennessee, NY Giants, Philadelphia, etc. That's what they do.

 

Darn the needs, get good players. The only place these teams historically put positional emphasis on is QB, and as you all know, I feel that once a team has a good QB, the rest of the pieces tend to fall into place.

[stuckincincy]

Wow rabbit, I've seen you reach for some arguments before, but this is just poor; however, because I have a little extra time, I'll play along...

 

You said:

Wasn't it Gailey who stated Spiller makes the line better? Either way both are in for a rude shock when the "water-bug gets swatted at the line and can't make plays.

 

I said:

Buffalo's OL blocked well enough for the running game to rank 8th in the league in yards per carry and 16th in yards per game in 2009. I can't imagine that they'll be either (a) less talented or (b) less healthy in 2010, so with all due respect, it's probably not Gailey or Nix that are in for the rude shock.

 

To which you said:

Actually it will be the "waterbug" that gets the rude shock

 

To which I say:

If he believes as you do, that the run blocking is poor, then yes, he will be shocked when he finds out that a lesser version of this line helped the running game rank 8th in the NFL in yards per carry. However, I don't believe he'll find such adequate run blocking to be "rude". If you don't find a 4.5 ypc average, good for 8th best out of 32 teams, to be adequte, then what, my friend, would be acceptable blocking in the running game?

 

Why are you bothering to make completely random wild guesses about who the Bills may or may not have tried to trade up for? It has nothing to do with the run blocking last season. Also, if you can kindly show me where, at any point in my entire post history, I've said that this team was fine at LT, I'd really appreciate it. Until then, perhaps you can stop making things up, since this whole "Bandit thinks the team is fine at LT" thing coupled with the whole "I think the Bills tried to trade up for Bulaga" thing sort of makes it look like you talk out of a hole other than your mouth.

 

But I digress...

 

you said:

I firmly believe that you build a team from the line up, if the line is no good then the offense is no good and will struggle in every area.

 

I said:

There are probably some Green Bay and Pittsburgh fans that disagree with you.

 

to which you said:

That reply makes sense coming from you, considering the Steeler's drafted a C with their #1 pick and the Packers drafted a LT with their #1 pick

 

to which I say:

I'm aware that Pittsburgh and GB drafted offensive linemen, doesn't that augment my point there rabbit? If those teams drafted offensive linemen, and that indicates--as you believe--that they had poor offensive lines, doesn't the fact that GB and Pit had the #6 and #7 offenses in the league, respectively, mean that the offense won't necessarily struggle without a good offensive line? Wasn't that your original point, or did your first statement mean something completely different that you failed miserably to articulate?

 

 

 

Yes, giving you grief over nothing, you poor thing. Look, you shot off about how poor the run blocking was last season. I responded by pointing out to you that the team ranked 8th in the league in run blocking. You don't have to get pissy with someone who points out an error in your thinking; a simple "wow, I didn't realize that" would probably be more appropriate. However, if you're going to respond by arguing, it's often prudent to actually have a counter-point rather than simply whining.

 

Pretty much every statement you've made here is wrong. You can argue all day about how good Jackson was after contact, but as I've shown you many times, the only website that tracks such statistics (at least that I'm aware of) strongly disagrees with you:

 

http://footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol

 

As you'll see (if you actually read the link this time, since I'm relatively sure you haven't yet), Buffalo ranked 10th in the league in the "stuffed" category. The Bills also ranked 12th in the NFL in "Adjusted Line Yards", while ranking only 21st in "Open Field Yards". As Footbal Outsiders explains the difference:

 

"A team with a high ranking in Adjusted Line Yards but a low ranking in Open Field Yards is heavily dependent on its offensive line to make the running game work. A team with a low ranking in Adjusted Line Yards but a high ranking in Open Field Yards is heavily dependent on its running back breaking long runs to make the running game work."

 

That's pretty clear to me that the OL's run blocking was pretty good last year.

 

Regarding the Colts, you claimed that Bill Polian was the only GM foolish enough to draft a LT with a #1 pick. All I told you is that the current Colts line was built with late round picks. That can be done, you don't have to pick an offensive lineman in the first round every year if you know how to judge talent. Same goes for every other position.

 

As for your pointing and wailing about my comfort level with the LT position, let me make this perfectly clear for you: no, I don't think the LT position is in good shape, and I've never, ever, ever said anything close to that. What I continue to refute on this board, from people such as yourself, is that the LT position doesn't need to be manned by an all-pro before the rest of the team can be improved. Do I think last year's crop of LTs can get the job done? No. Do I think LT is an important position? Yes. Should Buffalo make every attempt to improve at LT? Yes. Should their current LT situation be an excuse for the team not getting any better? No.

 

All clear now?

 

Yes.

 

"...brevity is the soul of wit,"

 

Hamlet Act 2, scene 2.

 

[PushthePile]

Yea well, I think your avatar shows your actual face... probably from smooching bandits butt.

 

If you read the entire thread and my original post he is giving me grief on every sentence over nothing, all going back to our old QB vs O line debate.

 

Just because the O line stats from last season show that the Bills were decent in run blocking doesn't take in account that Fred Jackson gained most of his yards after first contact. The Bills O line last season was the worst I've ever witnessed and that includes the 2-14 years. So in reality it punches a hole in nothing.

 

He is insinuating that the Colts don't waste #1 picks on the O line,so why should Buffalo. That statement plus his run blocking statement tells me he thinks the Bills O line will be fine this season "as is".

I wasn't kissing Bandits ass at all. I'm just not a fan of blank assumptions and falsifying what others have said.

 

Bandit doesn't need any help taking you behind the woodshed. Arguments that incorporate research and fact, always clobber the ones that are based on someone's emotions.

[thebandit27]

Yes.

 

"...brevity is the soul of wit,"

 

Hamlet Act 2, scene 2.

 

 

Touche' Polonius...brevity has never been my strong suit.

[thewildrabbit]

Wow rabbit, I've seen you reach for some arguments before, but this is just poor; however, because I have a little extra time, I'll play along...

 

You said:

Wasn't it Gailey who stated Spiller makes the line better? Either way both are in for a rude shock when the "water-bug gets swatted at the line and can't make plays.

 

I said:

Buffalo's OL blocked well enough for the running game to rank 8th in the league in yards per carry and 16th in yards per game in 2009. I can't imagine that they'll be either (a) less talented or (b) less healthy in 2010, so with all due respect, it's probably not Gailey or Nix that are in for the rude shock.

 

To which you said:

Actually it will be the "waterbug" that gets the rude shock

 

To which I say:

If he believes as you do, that the run blocking is poor, then yes, he will be shocked when he finds out that a lesser version of this line helped the running game rank 8th in the NFL in yards per carry. However, I don't believe he'll find such adequate run blocking to be "rude". If you don't find a 4.5 ypc average, good for 8th best out of 32 teams, to be adequte, then what, my friend, would be acceptable blocking in the running game?

 

Why are you bothering to make completely random wild guesses about who the Bills may or may not have tried to trade up for? It has nothing to do with the run blocking last season. Also, if you can kindly show me where, at any point in my entire post history, I've said that this team was fine at LT, I'd really appreciate it. Until then, perhaps you can stop making things up, since this whole "Bandit thinks the team is fine at LT" thing coupled with the whole "I think the Bills tried to trade up for Bulaga" thing sort of makes it look like you talk out of a hole other than your mouth.

 

But I digress...

 

you said:

I firmly believe that you build a team from the line up, if the line is no good then the offense is no good and will struggle in every area.

 

I said:

There are probably some Green Bay and Pittsburgh fans that disagree with you.

 

to which you said:

That reply makes sense coming from you, considering the Steeler's drafted a C with their #1 pick and the Packers drafted a LT with their #1 pick

 

to which I say:

I'm aware that Pittsburgh and GB drafted offensive linemen, doesn't that augment my point there rabbit? If those teams drafted offensive linemen, and that indicates--as you believe--that they had poor offensive lines, doesn't the fact that GB and Pit had the #6 and #7 offenses in the league, respectively, mean that the offense won't necessarily struggle without a good offensive line? Wasn't that your original point, or did your first statement mean something completely different that you failed miserably to articulate?

 

 

 

Yes, giving you grief over nothing, you poor thing. Look, you shot off about how poor the run blocking was last season. I responded by pointing out to you that the team ranked 8th in the league in run blocking. You don't have to get pissy with someone who points out an error in your thinking; a simple "wow, I didn't realize that" would probably be more appropriate. However, if you're going to respond by arguing, it's often prudent to actually have a counter-point rather than simply whining.

 

Pretty much every statement you've made here is wrong. You can argue all day about how good Jackson was after contact, but as I've shown you many times, the only website that tracks such statistics (at least that I'm aware of) strongly disagrees with you:

 

http://footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol

 

As you'll see (if you actually read the link this time, since I'm relatively sure you haven't yet), Buffalo ranked 10th in the league in the "stuffed" category. The Bills also ranked 12th in the NFL in "Adjusted Line Yards", while ranking only 21st in "Open Field Yards". As Footbal Outsiders explains the difference:

 

"A team with a high ranking in Adjusted Line Yards but a low ranking in Open Field Yards is heavily dependent on its offensive line to make the running game work. A team with a low ranking in Adjusted Line Yards but a high ranking in Open Field Yards is heavily dependent on its running back breaking long runs to make the running game work."

 

That's pretty clear to me that the OL's run blocking was pretty good last year.

 

Regarding the Colts, you claimed that Bill Polian was the only GM foolish enough to draft a LT with a #1 pick. All I told you is that the current Colts line was built with late round picks. That can be done, you don't have to pick an offensive lineman in the first round every year if you know how to judge talent. Same goes for every other position.

 

Your wife / gf must really love you because every time a question is asked you dance around it like Fred Astaire. Since you keep missing it post after post, let me ask again!

 

Has the Bills O line even been remotely close to that good since the 90's Bills?

 

Who on this Bills team is going to find those mid to late OL round gems like to the Colts have? Has the scouting dept found or drafted anyone even remotely close to anything worth keeping on the O line prior to last year (in Wood and Levitre in which the Bills used a #1 & #2 on guards) in the last 8 years?

So, obviously the Bills clearly don't know how to find those late round gems like the Colts have done because they use #1 & #2' draft picks on GUARDS!

 

As for your pointing and wailing about my comfort level with the LT position, let me make this perfectly clear for you: no, I don't think the LT position is in good shape, and I've never, ever, ever said anything close to that. What I continue to refute on this board, from people such as yourself, is that the LT position doesn't need to be manned by an all-pro before the rest of the team can be improved. Do I think last year's crop of LTs can get the job done? No. Do I think LT is an important position? Yes. Should Buffalo make every attempt to improve at LT? Yes. Should their current LT situation be an excuse for the team not getting any better? No.

 

All clear now?

Yea, what a lame excuse for a team to not get better.

[MRW]

Who on this Bills team is going to find those mid to late OL round gems like to the Colts have? Has the scouting dept found or drafted anyone even remotely close to anything worth keeping on the O line prior to last year (in Wood and Levitre in which the Bills used a #1 & #2 on guards) in the last 8 years?

So, obviously the Bills clearly don't know how to find those late round gems like the Colts have done because they use #1 & #2' draft picks on GUARDS!

If the talent evaluators on the Bills can't pick good OL, then why would burning even higher draft picks on their crappy evaluations make sense? If they actually did find good players last year in Levitre and Wood (the first year that Nix was back in the fold, FYI), why discount that they might be able to find good players at other points in the draft?

[stuckincincy]

Touche' Polonius...brevity has never been my strong suit.

 

Deeply scratched into the top of the blackboard in the classroom of one of my H.S. English teachers was this..."B Brf!."

 

However, this nice fellow (acting out of character) once decided that a recitation of Poe's' miserable poem Ulalume woulds edify us. He read it with long pause after each line. I think it took ten minutes. Then we had to put pencil to paper (lined paper, of course) and write a critique. What in the h*ll can you say about a line like "Thus I pacified Psyche and kissed her."?

 

I like Edgar Poe as well as the next guy, but Ulalume is best viewed as a pile of bricks flung at the foreheads of a captive audience denied any possibility of fleeing. I unfortunately had another dosing of it by a college prof - this guy was a virtuoso at monotone; that other fellow at least had a certain lilt in his voice. He was quicker about the business, though, and we didn't have to write anything.

[thebandit27]

Yea, what a lame excuse for a team to not get better.

 

You're right, it's probably better to allow that one position to hold the entire team back...

 

And no, the OL hasn't been that good since Polian left. Why you've decided to turn the entire debate as to whether or not the 2009 team's run blocking was good into a debate as to whether the team's OL has been good since he left is well beyond me, but I nevertheless hope that hearing my opinion makes you feel better.

 

Lastly, I'd think that since the team has a new GM and a new assistant GM, they'd probably be the guys that would try to find the OL talent. And to answer your question, yes, I thought the 2006 selection of Brad Butler with the last pick of the 5th round was pretty good. If a guy like Nix, who appears to have an eye for OL talent (I cite the selection of guys like Wood and Levitre), can continue to identify that kind of ability, then I think the team isn't far from sporting a quality OL. I'm not saying it will happen, but suppose a guy like Ed Wang does turn out to be a good player a year down the road. Oh yeah, also, for you to say that the team can't identify OL talent like Polian can (your reasoning being that they picked guards in rounds 1 and 2) makes, literally, zero sense on more than one level:

 

1) If the Colts' OL is so good, why did they rank dead last in the NFL in yards per carry and Buffalo ranked 8th? Don't tell me that it's because Fred Jackson is so far superior to Joseph Addai. I'll give you a hint on this one: Indy's line isn't great, it's servicable because they have loads of talent at the skill positions that compensates for it.

 

2) Just because the only 2 OL the team picked in 2009 were drafted out of the 1st and 2nd rounds doesn't mean that they can't identify talent. If Wood and Levitre turn out to be great guards, I'd say that's doing a good job of identifying talent, not illustrating a lack of ability.

 

If the talent evaluators on the Bills can't pick good OL, then why would burning even higher draft picks on their crappy evaluations make sense? If they actually did find good players last year in Levitre and Wood (the first year that Nix was back in the fold, FYI), why discount that they might be able to find good players at other points in the draft?

 

You're wasting your time with this one.

[thebandit27]

Deeply scratched into the top of the blackboard in the classroom of one of my H.S. English teachers was this..."B Brf!."

 

However, this nice fellow (acting out of character) once decided that a recitation of Poe's' miserable poem Ulalume woulds edify us. He read it with long pause after each line. I think it took ten minutes. Then we had to put pencil to paper (lined paper, of course) and write a critique. What in the h*ll can you say about a line like "Thus I pacified Psyche and kissed her."?

 

I like Edgar Poe as well as the next guy, but Ulalume is best viewed as a pile of bricks flung at the foreheads of a captive audience denied any possibility of fleeing. I unfortunately had another dosing of it by a college prof - this guy was a virtuoso at monotone; that other fellow at least had a certain lilt in his voice. He was quicker about the business, though, and we didn't have to write anything.

 

Thankfully, I never had to sit through such a mind-numbing cirriculum.

 

I was lucky enough to major in engineering, where the worst it got was kinematics and soil mechanics. No picnic by far, but if you sat far back enough in the lecture you could get a good nap in.

[Bill from NYC]

In the case of this year's draft, the Bills thought the best football player was a RB. I don't see much in the way of a decent argument contesting that. Who did you want Bill?

 

Or, it was a pick to sell tickets orchestrated by RW? Do I KNOW this? No, nor do I claim to but these running backs are getting to be a constant, much like defensive backs.

 

And to answer your question, because of the way the picks before us went I was wanting Brandon Graham. When we were up, did you want Spiller?