VW82

McD answering a question about Josh and what he needs to improve most: Q: "What are some of the areas where Josh can help himself get out of some bad situations or not allowing that to fester like he did last game?" A: "...I think that knowing where his answers are pre-snap it will be important for him moving forward as he continues to grow. (Then) you can take what the defense gives you and you can (still) move the chains, and I thought that was key yesterday. We didn't get that done." I've been harping on this all year and I'm glad McD is at least acknowledging this publicly. Allen has such a long ways to go in that department, and IMO it's BY FAR the biggest impediment to us being a good team right now. Josh just has no idea what's going on out there. We can harp all we want about play calling, but when your QB has such a low football IQ it handcuffs everyone involved.

Yes because people are all robots and are immune to the effects of non-stop adversity. Good point.

My theory on what happened yesterday is Josh is currently stuck in information overload. To me he looks like a feel player, and that's part of the reason he's so raw. For the first time in his career, coaches are asking him to do more than just go out and play with a basic game plan. Now he needs to pay attention to pre-snap alignments, check our protections, move guys around, diagnose rush while still going throw his progressions, find the hot route, keep track of his internal clock, etc., etc.,...and it's all just WAY TOO MUCH for him to process because he's never had to do this much before. Yesterday his brain broke on the field. I watched it happen. Twice in the 3rd and 4th quarters he ran away from non-existent pressure right into getting sacked. The first INT throw was another example. He's simultaneously missing unblocked rushers while also running away from phantom ones. To answer your question OP, I do think the coaching staff told him to be careful. I don't think that had any impact on what happened. Josh just isn't good at diagnosing or feeling pressure, and given his head is already spinning with everything else he isn't playing instinctively which is also exacerbating his accuracy issues. Last week he played with his gut and with confidence. He stayed out of his own head. It might be time to dial back the complexity of the game plan and the extent of his responsibilities. He's just not ready for this.

Josh is missing guys by 10-15 yards on some of these throws. How do you fight for those?

Did we have any dropped passes yesterday? I can't remember one.

Darnold hasn't been anywhere near as bad as Allen was yesterday. Also, we had that reaction after Peterman was that bad after one half last year (even though three of the five INTs weren't totally his fault), and again this year. The only reason we're giving Allen a complete pass for yesterday is because we spent so much to get him. The lengths everyone is going to cover up his bad play by blaming everyone else is comical. Edit: also, re your other comment...I didn't count any drops yesterday. Just a bunch of badly missed throws.

I never said anything about not waiting. What are you talking about? I have no doubt Allen will have days that look more like the Vikings game. He clearly has some talent. The issue is what's his variance game to game, and what's that going to look like when he's closer to a finished product. Contrary to what people say, these early games are a decent indication of what we're going to get from him, both good and bad. One of the things we learned yesterday is Allen is capable of coming completely unglued against a very average (some might say bad outside of Rodgers) team. So although yes we will likely see more Vikings-like performances, odds are really good we'll also see some resembling this game against the Packers. You seem to be acknowledging this. I think it's a problem to have a QB who is so inconsistent week to week (i.e. his highs are so far removed from his lows). That variance is tough to count on. Allen needs to figure out how to stop the bleeding when things aren't going well, something Peterman couldn't do. Yesterday's game can't ever happen again. At least not THAT bad. Sinking that low in your level of play isn't acceptable. For any QB. Ever. It's just a really, really bad sign for him. That's all I'm saying.

Literally no one is expecting high end QB play from this kid in this situation. The issue is he was historically bad yesterday. The oline and WRs didn't help things, but Allen made every mistake at every opportunity, and provided zero play making for the team. It was just a series of negative plays, one after another, until the last five minutes when he finally put together a couple of meager drives to inflate his numbers. Until that point he was 9/24 for 13 net passing yards and 2 INTs. I don't think it's overreacting to be surprised and disappointed to see that his floor can be this low. Good QBs, regardless of where they are in their development or if they're having a bad day, just don't have days that look as bad as Allen did yesterday, not unless they're playing an all time great defense or something which we weren't. Wash offense put up 31 points on GB last week

Let's examine the 16/33 for 151 and 2 INTs. Josh went 7/9 for 74 yards on his last two drives which were both in the final five minutes of the game when it was already over. The very definition of garbage time stats. He also lost 64 yards in sacks on the day, and his two INTs were returned for a total of 27 yards. So taking out the garbage time plays and the sacks, and factoring in the negative INT yardage he was actually 9/24 for -14 net passing yards. You can try and put lipstick on that pig and tell me it was just as good as other crappy QBs today, but the truth is he was historically awful. Also, I watched the full game and the eye test matched the historically bad stats. He was way beyond bad, even by bad rookie standards.

I keep hearing these same excuses, and I agree to an extent. But here's the rub: good QBs, even rookie ones who are having a bad day, eventually step up and make something happen, turn nothing into something, etc. Allen didn't do that at all today. Ask yourself this, if Allen and Rodgers (who's playing on a bum leg) had traded places to start the day, what would the score have been? I bet it would have been 22-0 going the other way. Perhaps you might suggest it's unfair to compare a rookie to a future HOFer. Again, I agree. But don't tell me it's all the Oline and WRs fault. A good QB can neutralize that some, especially against an average defense...and to answer your question, the equally average Deadskins put up 31 points on that Packers D last week, so don't tell me they're some impenetrable unit with nothing but players flying at you from every direction.

No one's asking for perfection. If Allen had just been regular rookie bad, and we'd lost, most fans would chalk it up as a learning experience. The issue was he was really, really bad against a very average defense. That's not a good sign regardless of what stage he's at in his development.

I think it's because deep down you know that this performance can't all be explained away by bad teammates and play calling. At some point a good QB, even an inexperienced one having a bad day, steps up and makes something positive happen. He turns nothing into something...something Allen didn't do at all today. A big part of the hope for this team is embedded in our new coach and QB. I think a lot of that hope and trust was shaken by today's performance. It's not just you.

I think today was about two bad teams with polar opposites at QB. If the QBs were switched I bet the score would have been 22-0 going the other direction. Keep in mind Rodgers was basically playing on one leg. Sometimes it really is that simple.

I tend to agree. If Allen flames out this year, some of that needs to fall on McBeane, and not just because they made the pick. This is an almost impossible situation for an extremely raw QB who needed time to watch and learn. That said, he can't tank the game on the team like he did today. We can point to Oline and WRs and play calling, but a huge part of it was just Allen playing bad. He made zero good things happen. A good QB, even an inexperienced one, will at least make positive plays here and there even if he has little help. Allen did none of that today.

If that's the case, expect a bunch more blitzes. From the article you posted: "According to ESPN Stats & Information research, Allen was sacked or put under duress on 19 of his 43 drop backs Sunday. He finished 1-of-10 passing for 2 yards and an interception on those plays. Allen is now 5-of-27 passing (19 percent) with no touchdowns and two interceptions when pressured this season." Ouch!

Bumping this thread is just plain mean. ?

If Josh had had a bad day, made some mistakes, and we'd lost I think most of us could chalk it up as a learning experience, and part of the process. The issue is how bad he looked. There are no acceptable excuses which would explain today's performance outside of severe injury or concussion. This has to be the low point which he never hits again. That's how bad it was.

This. I can't explain the 'turning and running in the opposite direction' part other than maybe it's just a bad habit, but the running prematurely part of it is surely an internal clock fail safe mandated by the coaching staff. There was a big difference in this between Allen's preseason start where he held the ball too long and got sacked a million times vs. Bengles, and his second half appearance vs. Chargers where he seemed much more aware of how long he was spending going through progressions. I have to think the got on him to start using an internal clock. This issue is I'm not sure it's helping him develop better pocket presence. It's more of a crutch, if anything. His feel for the rush and a collapsing pocket is terrible right now. So is his accuracy.

Man there's a lot of excuses going on here. Play calling was bad. Oline was bad. Receivers were bad. The only legit excuse to me is Allen shouldn't even have been out there. He should have had a real QB to watch and learn behind. Allen was his own (and the Bills') worst enemy out there today. He was the main reason we sucked, not everyone else. He tanked this game with his terrible play. Hopefully he bounces back, and we can look back on this week as his career low point (as surely it can't get lower than today, right??). He's going to need to because we can put all the talent in the world around him, but this team won't ever amount to anything if plays even remotely like he did today. Yuck.

The thing that surprised me was all the drops. I lost count of how many times Packers receivers had us beat and just couldn't hang onto the ball. We compounded the issue by dropping a couple of sure fire INTs. This game should have been over at halftime.

Jets seem to be going through the same thing right now with Darnold. I disagree we've played four SB contenders though. Ravens look good. Chargers have been mostly average outside of against us. Minny was super banged up. Rodgers is playing on one leg, and their defense is middling at best. Washington took them apart last week. I don't think you can just ignore performances like the one Allen had today, and chalk it up to being a rookie. Yes it's a learning experience, but it still happened. And it was really, really ugly.

There are scenarios where it may be in our best interest to take a guy in the first round, or even first overall if that's our fate. We don't know yet, and that's the point. This will all become more obvious after the season when we have better information.

I don't think we should be afraid to draft another QB if Allen doesn't look like he's developing. That said, you don't take one just to take one. It has to be a guy you believe in. But the idea that Allen needs at least two years before you know is antiquated thinking IMO. Sometimes you can just tell a kid probably isn't going to get there. 15 games might not be enough to say one way or another. We'll have a better idea after the season, but we shouldn't be closing our minds to options just because we hope we might have our guy. That's bad decision making 101.

This. Maybe that's Allen, maybe he isn't. If he doesn't develop like McBeane had hoped, I hope they have the guts to take another one if the right guy is available. We can use all the help we can get with the online and WR groups though. They're awful.

I don't think it's so much about the record but the manner in which the games have played out. We've been blown out and looked terrible in the three of the four games. The Vikings game looks like an aberration at this point. Also, this season was always going to be largely about the development of our young players. Today Allen proved his doubters have legitimate reason to be concerned. His ceiling might still be high but his floor is really, really low. It's troubling.