VW82

I'm the first guy to point out Josh needs to be more accurate on these throws but the lack of ability by our receivers to make tough catches is getting really annoying.

Assuming it has no impact on our ability to win the division...obviously, yes. Treat it like a preseason game. Everyone starts but none of main guys play second half.

300 yard game from Josh likely means he had to throw more which probably means we lost. Let's save that for next year when we can afford it. I'll take efficient Josh who punks defenders with his legs and throws darts in the short to medium areas of the field. I'm way more concerned with the status of his ankle.

I mean sure...let's crown his ass after three complete games vs. Chargers, Browns, and Cards plus a couple quarters vs. Ravens and Bungles. Maybe Devlin needs to play a little more before he's considered better than any regular starter. Allen still has a lot to prove. There are going to be legitimate doubters until he proves he can be the reason we're winning. There are a lot of games where he's only doing just enough, and others where he's falling way short.

I didn't read through the whole thread but I don't understand why there aren't major sanctions. Pats have been caught doing this multiple times, and the NFL has had every chance to re-write their rules to dissuade this type of practice. If this isn't breaking any rules then the NFL should have to answer for it. Pats should have to forfeit draft picks at the very least.

Agree to disagree. If we're not going to include things like sacks then what's the point of using any stats? Completed passes, incompletions, net yards, they're all team stats. They all require play design, blocking, route running, reading the defense, etc. I think it's perfectly fine to use stats to help illustrate an argument, as long as they're not the sole argument. In this case, when you look at the way we failed to counter their blitz by finding hot routes, connecting on deep passes, adjusting protections, etc. (i.e. areas where the QB has a large influence) vs. the way they handled our pressure with their run game which included Lamar's RPO runs and scrambles, plus the key plays where Lamar came through to finish off drives, and you put all that into context with the offensive stats of both players, the picture becomes clearer as to who was the better player Sunday.

How so? Sacks are plays too. We gave up some bad ones. I posted this earlier in the thread but officially we got credited with only three drops. Can't say I agree with that but those are the numbers. I agree our receivers need to take some blame as does Daboll. Josh isn't solely at fault here, but he is at fault.

Obviously we want to win as there are still scenarios where we could miss the playoffs but I do wonder if we want to be the 5th or 6th seed. Let's assume KC keeps winning and one of them or NE is the three seed. Surely we'd rather play the winner of the AFC South, right? But what if that team is the resurgent Titans? Our biggest strength is defending the pass and one of our weaknesses is stopping the run. Henry is a monster. Pats look vulnerable. KC has a very weak defense this year. Who'd you rather?

True. Josh could have had some excellent YAC as well on some coverages we beat but he missed those throws. He was also playing at home whereas Lamar was playing on the road in a difficult environment, and without his top target for the majority of the game.

Are we not counting all the sacks Josh gave up? He had 105 net passing yards compared to 139 for Lamar. Counting runs, Josh had 114 total yards on 41 drop backs for 2.78 yards per play. Lamar had 179 total yards on 36 drop backs for 4.97 yards per play. No narrative, just numbers. I didn't use any adjectives to qualify how much he got outplayed. I just said he got outplayed. I didn't lie about anything.

Bills receivers got credited with three official drops yesterday. Interesting.

I think he absolutely got outplayed when you consider the context. Lamar was on the road in a notoriously difficult place to play vs. the slightly better defense by most metrics and without his top target for most of the game. Josh had every advantage and yet Lamar passed for more yards, ran for more yards, did it more efficiently, and his team won.

One of the main issues I continue to have with Josh is his poor starts. On the year in the 1st quarter he's thrown for 613 yards, 6.1 Y/A, 71 QB rating. It's just so rough when your QB comes out not executing. There were many people to blame throughout the game but Josh set the tone early with all those poor passes and the fumble. I don't think dejected is the right word as he's obviously not ready for games like this (see NE) and so expectations were lower but it's hard not to be disappointed when the defense plays so well and you lose. To those putting up the 146 yards number, don't forget to include his rushes and sacks (some of which were his fault). It was 114 total net yards on 2.78 yards per drop back. That isn't just the result of some drops and play calling.

We definitely got some suspect calls in our favor, especially on the final drive. Those were weak personal foul calls and that deep ball to Beasley wasn't catchable, trip or no trip. I understand the case for PI to Foster but ultimately the DB was playing the ball and Josh just threw it up for grabs. You can't expect to get bailed out by the refs in that situation.

I would give him a D as well. 114 combined net yards on only 2.78 yards per play. A couple bad sacks which took us out of FG range. Two fumbles. Receivers let him down in the second half but he just wasn't good enough vs. the blitz today. I thought the ankle injury really hampered him.

Yes but some of that is recognizing when they're going to blitz and either audibling to better protection or a different play, or if they surprise you it's knowing where your hot read is and getting the ball out quickly. The fact he doesn't seem able to do that is exacerbating the problem. It's not like we're getting destroyed with four rushers on every play.

I thought Daboll had a really bad day. Him moving to the booth and reading the defense pre-snap for Allen was a big reason for the offensive turnaround IMO. Today we didn't have the proper protections when they blitzed and the times we did max protect or when Josh changed the play (likely due to whatever Daboll was seeing) we played right into their defensive scheme. This doesn't excuse the awful performances from our QB and receivers, but it was a rough outing for our OC.

I think Josh making strides as a pocket passer, reading the field and making good, quick decisions vs. the blitz, is going to determine whether we can become legit superbowl contenders or not. Right now he's so dynamic if/when he escapes the pocket but games like today show where he's at when he doesn't. We can draft/sign all the good players we want but until the pocket passing improves there's a hard ceiling for this team.

Our defense is certainly legit. Feel like we already knew that though.

Great effort by the defense today. They had poor field position a bunch and only gave up 257 total yards, 61 of which came on one play.

Give Lamar credit. He's a very cool customer in the face of a pass rush.

Our receivers are all smurfs. Why are we throwing it up for grabs there??

These drops are just demoralizing

Josh has been awful today but think we need to put the ball in his hands and live with the results. We're not getting push in the run game and Ravens are basically stacking the line on us. Go shot gun. Go early so Daboll can read the field.

F#%&