VW82

Second half thread got locked, but to answer your question...No I don't think this team is going anywhere this year, but you need a team to win. There is no team if guys all lose faith in the process because the QB is sometimes beyond terrible to the point where you can't trust him. Games like this one contribute to that. They've now seen first hand just how ugly it can get with Josh under center. This can't happen again, or at least not in the manner it did. This has to be the low point for him. I said the same thing about Peterman when he threw five picks, and this game wasn't much better. The second time Peterman tanked a game his career was over. You just can't do your teammates like that, regardless of what position you play or where you were drafted.

No. I was hoping and praying Baker or Darnold would fall to us. After they didn't I would have just kept the picks. I might have taken Lamar Jackson with our late first. That said, we took Allen and I'm happy to support him. This performance is unsupportable though. He has to be better than this. It can't be a case where we completely tank games in the name of his development.

Sure there's blame to go around, but Allen was by far the biggest offender out there. We couldn't even move the ball. He was missing protections. Missing free rushers. Bad pocket presence, running backwards into sacks. Air mailing receivers. Unable to identify open receivers. Both INTs were his fault. It was a really, really bad day for him. The fact his floor can be that low is disconcerting.

Says the guy with "sixpack" in his name lol. I don't drink. Again, playing badly and losing is one thing. The issue is he completely tanked the game, and he did it against a very average defense. A lot of it was just unforced errors on his part. It's not a great sign, that's all I'm saying. Hope he turns it around.

I don't think so. Playing this badly against a middling defense is not a god sign. Hopefully he turns a corner next week.

Again, I was just responding to another poster who compared them. We don't need to compare Allen to anyone to know this game is a really bad sign, regardless of where we are in the process. It's not that he had a bad game. It's that he tanked the game for the whole team, start to finish.

I'm not trying to compare them, just responding to another poster who did. Allen doesn't need to be compared to anyone to understand that he's been miserable today. It's still very early in the process but games like this are a really bad sign. It would be for any young QB. I don't think that's all that controversial.

The difference is Rodgers missed a couple of blitzes. Allen has missed like ten. Sometimes you're going to miss them. Give credit to the defense. But Rodgers is still making plays on one leg. They've put up 19 points and over 370 yards (and counting). We've barely been able to move the ball, and that isn't all on the oline and WRs. I think it's ok to be disappointed by our rookie QB whom we traded the farm for. He looks worse than bad right now. He looks like he doesn't know what he's doing which is scary.

I agree it's a really bad habit that needs to be broken.

He's also thrown for 250 yards.

I expect him to do something. He's just making mistake after mistake out there. Bad pre-snap reads. No feel for the rush or his oline. Not seeing open receivers. Missing open receivers. Missing covered receivers by 10-15 yards. Taking bad sacks. Running into bad sacks. If we had a real back up he'd have been pulled already.

They've definitely had a bunch of drops today. The score should be much worse than it is. I don't think you can blame today's result on the WRs. Allen isn't giving them a chance.

It's the QB's responsibility to diagnose unblocked rushers and adjust protection. Or if he misses them, he has to be aware enough to see that right away and get rid of the ball. Allen did neither there. He doesn't see the field.

That sack is 100% on Allen. He has no idea where the rush is coming from. Put Peterman in. Allen is killing us.

If Allen can't move the ball here it might be time to cut bait next possession even just for a change of pace. Maybe Peterman can give us a spark.

Thank goodness these Packers WRs are so bad. Worse than ours. Yet somehow they still move the ball. Wonder why.

Allen is going to get one of his WRs killed at some point. Geez.

They're definitely not helping the situation. Neither is the line. But Allen is the biggest problem today by far. He's playing like a rookie who doesn't belong on the field. If he's a true gamer he'll bounce back in the second half. Can't just come completely unglued like this. He's missing receivers by 10-15 yards!

It's a joke dude. But seriously, he's been awful so far. Needs to be more accurate if we have any chance to win.

Allen has missed 172 open receivers so far today (all numbers approximate). Also, he has a really bad habit of telegraphing our running plays. He'll immediately extend the ball toward the running back as he's running to meet him for the handoff. This only happens when we run the ball. It's annoying.

I think it would be very unlikely he'd go number one overall in any draft. Too many question marks and not enough success coming out of college. Allen profiles as the third round guy who a few teams fall in love with and take in the 10-20 range of the first round. He's Kyle Boller. There's someone like him every few years. To be clear, I'm not suggesting he's going to bust or won't be any good, just that he's another QB in a long line that entered the draft with superior physical attributes but not much success at the college level. Those guys almost never go number one.

To BigDing Posted this in the other thread you started (same topic) but it immediately got locked, so I'm copy/pasting my response here: So for starters...Obviously you take Mahomes over Allen though your equation is not quite right. No where are you accounting for the extra 2018 FRP that we got for Mahomes and used to trade up for Edmunds. It should be Allen + Tre + Edmunds vs. Mahomes + 2018 FRP + two 2018 SRPs + 2018 TRP. I think you're missing a lot of important context here. McD got hired in Jan 2017. The NFL and college season were done. All the draft intelligence was collected by Whaley's regime. Knowing what we know now, it seems pretty obvious those two men have drastically different ideas of how to put together a football team (i.e. one guy is a talent collector, the other a team builder). Buffalo trading their 2017 FRP for futures and selecting Tre, a cornerback (McD's area of expertise), makes tons of sense under that lens. Clearly McD would prefer to have more options in a future draft where he had his people in place all year, and a better understanding of the strengths and weaknesses of the roster. So if anything, it's a little unlucky Mahomes entered the draft when he did. The other part we're forgetting is Andy Reid. He has a history of making QBs look fantastic. Maybe Mahomes would have been good anywhere, but he definitely has a much better shot at being great studying under Reid for a year and then starting on one of the best offensive rosters in the league, coached by one of the best offensive minds. McD is a defensive coach. We're going to judge him based on wins and losses but it isn't surprising he came in wanting to fix the defense first, so we could at least be competitive. That ball hawking D also carried us to our first playoff berth in 437 years, so there's that. I can't defend all his moves, and in isolation Allen over Mahomes looks bad, but there was sound reasoning behind what McD did IMO (even if the execution was perhaps a little off). Point is there's reason to trust what he's building. And yes, they are building something with Allen, Tre, and Edmunds.

So for starters...Obviously you take Mahomes and the picks over Allen and Tre. Anyone voting otherwise is a complete homer who's lost all objectivity. That said, I think you're missing a lot of important context here. McD got hired in Jan 2017. The NFL and college season were done. All the draft intelligence was collected from Whaley's regime. Knowing what we know now, it seems pretty obvious those two men have drastically different ideas of how to put together a football team (i.e. one guy is a talent collector, the other a team builder). Buffalo trading their 2017 FRP for futures and selecting a Tre, a cornerback (McD's area of expertise), makes tons of sense under that lens. Clearly McD would prefer have more options in a draft where he had his people in place all year. So if anything, it's a little unlucky Mahomes entered the draft when he did. The other part we're forgetting is Andy Reid. He has a history of making QBs look fantastic. Maybe Mahomes would have been good anywhere, but he definitely has a much better shot of being great studying under Reid for a year and then starting on one of the best offensive rosters in the league, coached by one of the best offensive minds. McD is a defensive coach. We're going to judge him based on wins and losses but it isn't surprising he came in wanting to fix the defense first, so we could at least be competitive. That ball hawking D also carried us to our first playoff berth in 437 years, so there's that. I can't defend all his moves, and in isolation that equation you polled looks really bad, but there was sound reasoning behind what he did IMO (even if the execution was perhaps more than a little off). There's reason to trust what he's building. And yes, they are building something.

Good for Sean. I admit to questioning him hard after all the off season decisions, naming Peterman starter and subsequent benching, Leslie Frazier, Vontae Davis, etc. He seems to have righted the ship somewhat. We have arguably the worst QB and WR combo in the NFL. Some of that can be chalked up to youth, but you're not going to get better by dogging it in practice like Allen and Ray Ray did in that clip.

Why are Packers making Rodgers play on a shredded knee? Looks painful.