Zerovoltz

This isn't a guy you want. Bad hands. Doesn't help in the run game either. Has a knack for a spectacular catch 2 or 3 times a season..and its a big surprise every time it happens because he drops A LOT of routine stuff. Already been suspended for substance abuse once......this isn't a case of a talented guy being buried on the depth chart behind the leauges best TE....even though that is true....he'd be buried on a lot of other teams depth charts as well. He won't be missed in KC.

You just keep moving the goal posts further and further back....NOTHING you've had to say about Mahomes has been remotely close to accurate. Mahomes threw for 25 TD and 2700 yards to guys not named Hill, Kelce and Watkins this year. His numbers to just the other scrubs on the team would have ranked him in the top half of QB's for the year. He has done this with the Worst D in the NFL, and lost the support of a pro bowl RB who they had to "kick" off the team....KC's 4 losses were by a combined 21 points. Alex Smith had the same weapons, coaches and BETTER D than this and could barely must HALF Mahomes production. By the way...KC ran and threw at the same ratio they did last year...so this isn't about volume of attmepts etc....Mahomes is simply that much better and way more efficient....I don't often say this about anyone as all kinds of people have all kinds of opinions...but you sir...you do not know what you are talking about.

Wow.....alot to talk about here. The day will come when it's time to pay Mahomes....he is going to get a ton of money...and he'll be one of those guys that takes up a bunch of cap room....and he'll be worth it because he does make everyone around him better. I'd even speculate that QB salaries are about to flatten a little bit because teams are seeing that overpaying for mediocre QB's has been a mistake...so there is a little bit of dial back coming on these future contracts...plus...Mahomes isn't due for an extension before the 2020 labor agreement happens...who knows what that will look like. Um....that 284 and 1 pick was in Mahomes very first start, wich was week 17 AT Denver...it was the only game he played in....and for some context..Mahomes played the first half, and a little of the 3rd quarter. got KC out to a 2 TD lead, then sat on the bench while Tyler Bray came in and threw a pick 6 to Denver, then fumbled and Denver tied the game with 3 minutes left. Mahomes came back in and led KC on the winning drive...part of that drive was a 3rd and 14 where Von Miller is all over him and he is running to his right full speed, and uncorks a strike accross his body as he is being tackled, for a 20 yard completion with 3 defenders all around....he put up 284, and the one pick in 3 quarters, in his first ever game, and led a 4th quarter game winning drive....context is important. I really can't add anything to this...it just sums up half the posts in the thread perfectly though. While you debate this Allen/Mahomes thing...I can tell you with the utmost certainty....Buffalo won this trade for sure. Ragland is SLOW. Great question.....I can explain it. Cleveland decided Myles Garrett was a can't miss no brainer safe pick at 1. San Francisco, probably thought they'd be in on Kirk Cousins the following offseason...and apparently Lynch wasn't into any of the QB available on top that..so traded to the Bears...who took Trubisky.....who they clearly thought was better, otherwise they would have taken Mahomes. The Jags, took Leonard Fournette at 4...they had Bortles, who they still believed in and had OLD SCHOOL Tom Coughlin calling the shots....at 5, the Titans already had Mariotta...and they took Corey Davis WR...trying to get him more weapons. At 6, the Jets took Jamaal Adams...you could argue that they needed a QB...but they had just spent a high 2 on Christian Hackenburg in the 2016 Draft...and wanted to see that through (clearly a mistake) At 7 The Chargers, who already had Rivers...took WR Mike Williams...at 8 Carolina who already had Newton, took McCaffrey. at 9, the Bengals...who already had Dalton...took WR John Ross (I am sure they'd like a doever as well) ...so in many of these cases...you can say that they all "Passed" on a QB..but most of them were set at QB and were trying to add parts....KC had some good fortune that the top 9 were many teams not looking at QB. And then Buffalo at 10...you've all covered it...lame duck GM....new defensive coach...wasn't going to tie his career to a QB picked by an outgoing GM...and wasn't taking one he hadn't evaluated with his new GM. So, hence the trade. LOL....50 TD in season has been done THREE TIMES...Brady, Manning and Mahomes.....he is bound to slump....just like Manning and Brady "Slumped" after 50. Last item I will leave you with.....KC rushed for 115.8 Yards per game with Hunt. KC has rushed for 116.4 without him.....really good back...but its CLEAR that the QB matters...not the RB....also....if you take away all the TD and Yards Mahomes threw to Hill, Kelce, and Watkins...Mahomes still had 25 TD and 2700 yards. To everyone else on the roster....think about that.....25 TD's would tie for 11th just on their own. I like watching Allen, I hope he gets better with a year of seasoning and some upgrades and I think he will ...but wow....

I came to this conclusion before anyone else was considering it. I stand by it, including the Haskins part instead of Murray.

If they didn't have the choice of Rosen or Haskins, then of course...but if you believe the better QB is right there to take, you take him.

Rosen: New Orleans....traded after Arizona drafts Haskins.

.....Save this post.....because it will need to be displayed right next to my Mahomes predictions here..... The Cardinals made this hire because they are going to draft Haskins. The way to look at this for Arizona isn't that they have a QB and can trade the 1/1 in the draft....(of course they COULD) but instead....look at like a chance to choose between Rosen or Haskins. Arizona absolutely has that choice right now. If you hire Kingsbury, who is going to install a spread, air it out type offense...you want HASKINS running that, not Rosen. The Arizona front office, by firing Wilks after only one season, has already shown they aren't afraid to move on from a mistake after 1 year and get someone they think is better. Haskins is better than Rosen. Arizona will keep that pick, draft Haskins, and trade Rosen to the highest bidder. I predict that bidder will be the Saints, who will probably be able to pick up Rosen for a 4th round pick...get a first round talent into their system to be the heir to Brees and fix their succession problem with a player who is still talented, on a rookie deal, that only costs a 3 or a 4 to kick the tires on? As for as Kingsbury as a HC...he has HC experience tyring to win in Lubbock, TX. He's proven he knows how to look at QB's and got them out to that ****hole to play college football. He knows offense..the leauge is clearly trending offense....this is about offense...Kliff will hire an experienced D coordinator...again, the man understand how to lead, delegate etc.....

KC not going down. I hope New England beats the Chargers.....New England, for all their history of greatness...never play well at Arrowhead...some of Bradys worst games have been in KC....and that's is the most favorable matchup for the Chiefs...chargers present more problems for us than NE does. Besides...it would make a great story for KC to rip the mantle from Brady and the Pats...kind of a passing of the torch moment.

A little bit. I thought Allen would struggle with completion PCT....and he still has. I, like many here, underestimated his athletic ability. I have been impressed with his ability to run...didn't see anwhere near the production on the ground that he produced. I thought he would be a bust...(and I still generally think that his passing efficiency needs to be much better. ..I didn't say comp %....passing efficiency.) BUT....Allen impressed me enough to believe he COULD take a step or two if given some better talent around him. He's certainly exciting, and I am looking forward to seeing if this offseason and and what should be an improved roster, produces results that show more improvement. So, yes...Allen has impressed me. I'm rooting for him. Looking forward to seeing what happens next.

......I've seen enough of Allen to believe that he offers HOPE still. You are going to upgrade the roster. He is going to get an offseason to work on issues. He DOES have intangibles, can run, leadership etc.... The Broncos Giants drafted Saquon Barkely and the Broncos took Bradley Chubb in the top 5 of the past draft. BOTH of those guys are very very good football players. And both the Broncos and the Giants SUCK. They didn't have a QB, they didn't draft a QB, and now they are facing a 2019 Draft that MIGHT have ONE QB (Haskins) worth going after....if they can even get him. 2020 is a LONG LONG way away. I would much rather be the Bills heading into 2019 with Allen, the hope that he provides...the idea you are going to load up and try and be great as opposed to the certain dread of facing another season of Case Keenum or Eli Manning...KNOWING there is NO HOPE. Brady is about done. You know Tannehill isn't a difference maker....it's the bills and Jets for AFC supremecy for the next 5 years at least. There is A LOT to look forward to in 2019. If you hadn't taken Allen in 2018, you'd be sitting here knowing 19 was going to be a waste of time...no QB to get, etc etc....What the Bills have that so many teams do not heading into 2019 is a chance to be something good and special...the Broncos, Giants, Bucs, Dolphins, Lions, Bengals, Jags....they don't have that. Dread. Misery. Despiar.....no hope. Allen = hope.

With 2 weeks left, if the Dolphins beat the Jaguars and Bills....AND the Patriots lose out to the Bills and Jets, the Dolphins would win the division, and New England would miss the playoffs.

Josh just needs a better Oline, better weaponry, more experience...etc....This could apply to BOTH josh's. I would say that the Josh who is athletic and can run is better than the Josh that can't.....but if both josh's get a line and some weapons and one Josh is completing 65% or better of his passes an the other Josh is only completing 55% or so....then that Josh will liekly pass the other Josh in the race to see who got the best Josh. Still hard to say. I predicted both would be busts...won't really be able to call it until sometime next year at the earliest.

I am not a Rosen guy and have predicted that he will underwhelm. However, the Cardinals literally have been without ALL five starters on their oline most of the year. They have a couple guys starting who had been bagging groceries before getting the call. I’m not sure they have better personnel. I continue to believe Allen’s completion pct is a concern, but I am very open to the idea that more time, and an upgraded roster will help. The debate won’t be decided until next year when the Bills have invested in the roster like the Bears did for Trubisky this past offseason The “problem” is that the stat predictors all said his completion pct would be low. His completion pct is low. It’s THE entire issue around Allen then and it still is. It’s not as if people are nitpicking this issue. This is what the concern was coming in. Mahomes. ? If if anyone cares to refute these points, your argument carries more weight when it includes graphic depictions of big. Glasses.......and voluminous........hair.

https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/charts/list/pass/buffalo-bills/season/13/josh-allen/ALL529264/2018/13/pass

the Washington Redskins. Tennesee Titans. Jacksonville Jaguars.

...umm....interesting take on Manual needing "too much work".....when you are in a thread talking about Josh Allen....a guy who by all accounts was ready to go day 1.

I've certainly done that here from time to time. I post on other issues that aren't even QB related as well. ....I've not hidden the fact I showed up here after the "trade" because I've wanted to keep my finger on the pulse of the Bills fan base AND see how things developed, including the trades and drafting of your QB, Allen, and how that's been going. I've also put it out there I think Allen isn't going to develop...not that he couldn't, not that he isn't an incredible athelete...I continue to think it's every bit worth while to get him some better weapons this offseason...see if you can upgrade your line...he has talent...I am skeptical about his ability to ever consistantly be an accurate thrower....and that I think it's a very important attribute....but you get this guy the right mix around him and the right kind of offense...he's totally viable....my last several posts here have been about many fans unwillingness to even acknowledge that the kid has an accuracy issue...and it isn't "just" getting better. .....and you don't need to hear that or anything else from a Chiefs fan...I get it... But I'm here and I enjoy the conjecture....and unelss someone kicks me out, I'll keep posting my thought on this and other stuff here. This is a good take.

Zay Jones had his best game as a Bill with Matt Barkley throwing At him 11 targets, 8 catches. 93 yards and a TD. On the road at the Jets. Foster had 103 in that game. Barkley has SEVEN career starts and had just signed the week before. It’s one game but Barkley completed 15 of 25, right on his career completion pct of 60%. His passes were not short. He averaged over 10 YPA. That isn’t dink and dunk. I continue to be amazed that so many people keep writing off Allen’s accuracy issues to everything but Allen himself. By by the way, according to PFF, Allen has more time to throw in the pocket than any QB in the NFL. Barkley played behind the same line. Allen is a serious threat to run and make things happen. He is fast. He is a gamer. He is tough. He has a strong arm. He can demonstrate all of this on a field and you can measure all of those with stats or the eye test. He has a well documented, well scouted, well known accuracy issue that you can measure with stats or see with your eyes. some people don’t like math that doesn’t fit what their blurry vision tells them can’t be true.

Denver has lost a few games they should have won....lost at home to Houston 19-17 HORRIBLE clock managment and play calling in the two minute drill meant they had to try a 63 yard field goal to win....and they had already missed one earlier in that game.....they lost to the Rams by 3. 23-20. They beat the Chargers. They beat the Steelers They run very well, and their defense is fast and physical. They present matchup problems for teams like the Rams and Chiefs....and Chargers and Steelers...holding all of them to under their scoring averages...you catch them on a day when Keenum actually has a good game and you are done. Now...having lost Sanders, that may be more than they can overcome...they need everyone healthy and playing at a high level...but when they do...they are a tough out. The 6-6 is a bit of a mirage.....and also...somehow, the Broncos are one of those odd teams that plays to the competition...the Jets blew them out somehow earlier this year in New York. ....regardless... If signing KB for chump change, and plopping his fat ass on our bench means he isn't in Denver possibly playing hard and helping them in a time where they need a WR...then GOOD. worth the pocket change it cost.

Denver is to KC what New England is to Buffalo. Believe me...the ONLY team in the AFC that the Chiefs don't want to see again this year is the Broncos.

Let me try and seaparte Watkins from his contract and talk about the two separately. The contract is HORRIBLE. KC paid out WR 1 money for the guy KNOWING he would be the 4th option, 3rd option at best on this team. That's just not smart use of resources. The player has been...OK. He's hurt too much for the money...but when he's played he's been allright...had a few big games. IF ....IF he were the no.1 option he'd put up some strong numbers...probably not worth the contract even in that scenario...but he's been ok. If Hill were to miss time Watkins would probably look more valuable to us than he has thus far. I haven't seen enough to justify the contract..and frankly, we could have saved that money and spent it elsewhere and signed someone else much cheaper this past off season...in hindsight...I would have liked for us to have kept Albert Wilson (he blew out his ACL so maybe it's better we didn't) ....Anyhow...not worth the money on Watkins....he has been, more or less what people said he is....an intriquing prospect that is hurt often and needs volume to have maximum impact. He hasn't broken any big plays. Our Defense .....is interesting in that we are at or very near the top of the NFL in sacks. Two very good edge rushers in Ford and Houston and a very good D Tackle in Chris Jones. You'd think that having this kind of talent up front would mask some problems elsewhere..but it hasn't. Having watched every KC game...we may well have the worst ILB pairing in the NFL. Reggie Ragland looked decent his first year here..he SUCKS. ....and maybe he needs to be in a different scheme where he just goes downhill all the time, but in our scheme the ILB are asked to read and react. Ragland needs to have no responsibilities in coverage at all and just go....even when he gets moving off the snap...he is easily blocked and can't shed. A bust. We signed Anthony Hitchens from the Cowboys for big Money in the offseason....unlike Ragland..Hitchens looked pretty good in Dallas last year....but playing in this read and react system...he also SUCKS. He is asked to read and then cover RB and TE...and he isn't good at it...he was a good sideline to sideline defender in Dallas and the reports were he wasn't good at coverage there either....just a really good pursuit player. .....because he has to read the play and often cover someone, on run plays..he is slow to identify and thus slow to move...and gets swallowed up by O lineman. His Contract is AWFUL and the way it's structured, we are stuck with him for 2 more seasons. They did draft Dorian O'Daniel from Clemson, and when he has played ILB..he HAS looked pretty good...good in coverage...quicker to react and has shown some ability to shed blockers...but they are reluctant to play him...he should be starting. Ragland should be benched. The secondary ins't very good. Orlando Scandrick is old, but has been ok....dropped what would have been the game clinching INT vs the Rams...just flat out dropped it...right in his hands. Steven Nelson is ok. Our safties are OLD and SLOW. Been waiting on Eric Berry to come back all year...he MIGHT finaly play this week...they need him. Because of the sacks and turnovers...and the D is OK to live with even if the numbers in yards and points don't always look good..they do produce big plays.

I said it already..but yeah....I don't have high hopes about this....the Chiefs made a low risk, low money investment in a guy who at one time, a long time ago, showed a little....fine...we paid out some pennies to kick the tires...I read this board all the time and have read ALL the stuff you find folks have posted about Benjamin..and I have watch a few of the games....(ever since the Trade and the drafting of Allen, I can't get enough of watching the Bills....love the passion of the fan base here...and am glad to be on this board..great place to talk football) ......I think KC sees this as SUPER cheap depth....and anything else would be gravy....contract just for the rest of this year....I'm not hoping for or expecting much.

i agree with you....this isn't exciting news to me....due in large part to me following this board...I might be the best informed KC fan about this guy. SO MANY KC fans see a name they know and instantly "LETS SIGN HIM, HES A BEAST! (on a side note, the tendancy of the lower IQ among my Chiefs fan base, LOVE the term Beast. ugh.) ....KC fan base has a hard time separating Madden from real life (this goes for salary cap issues as well...SIGN EVERYONE! TRADE FOR EVERYONE!) Yav....not sure you have any sort of credibility with your incredibly horrible Pat Mahomes predictions and takes.

A simple glance at Case Keenums numbers this year tell enough of the story....or go watch some of their games...Minnesota was right to let him walk. He's not been good at all this year. .....He has targets and a good run game....Emmanual Sanders is pro bowl caliber WR...The traded Demarryous Thomas, but the Rookie Sutton has impressed...and they have a very strong running game....that offense isn't void of talent. Sanders just tore his ACL in practice yestarday, so he's done....and they did claim Holmes, the other WR you released. Again..as far as Benjamin playing TE....and you telling me he can't (and I believe you) ....well, again, great...our second string TE also can't play TE...so if Benjamin has step into that role, he'll fit right in.

Even though we have beaten Denver twice this year already...they have really played us tight...they are a touch matchup for us...they also did have held the Rams to low totals on offense and nearly beat them...they beat the Chargers....Denver has a below average QB holding back the rest of that team. As far as Benjamin being a TE, our current back up TE, Demetrious Harris...already can't block and never plays as big has his size either...he's been here 4 years already and hasn't progressed....If Benjamin sucks...that's fine..he sucks and will have cost us next to nothing....if Harris were to get hurt...well...we appear to have his crappy identical twin on the roster now.