Zerovoltz

You all know I am biased, but as far as Watson goes, the box score stats he put up last year were very good. He was chucking balls downfield and his talented WR were making plays on the ball. You might argue Mahomes is benefitting from throwing to talented targets, making plays on the ball. This is NOT the case. Watson is the same QB he was last year. He makes one read and either throws or looks to run. Last year when he did throw, he had a lot of bad passes get caught by his guys. He had a ton of turnovers last year as well. This year, he is the same guy, the luck on the bad passes just hasn’t been there, and he is still turnover prone. Not only do the box score stats shine for Mahomes, if you watch the film, he goes through reads, he stands in the pocket. He keeps his eyes downfield even as pressure comes at him, and he throws accurately and has touch at the appropriate time. when D coordinators go to look at the film they’ll see this and do what? Blitz? He has ice cold blood, he’ll stand tall and find the open man (he has insane rating under pressure). Drop 8? He’ll audible to a run or RPO. Mahomes on the range > Greatest show on turf.

I would like to point out that we had Alex Smith here already....behind the same line with the same weapons.....Mahomes isn't just succeeding because he is here...certainly it helps....but Mahomes is legit....Reid went to get him because he understood he needed someone who could drive the porche like a racecar and not like a minivan.

.....He threw pics in training camp that the MEDIA was conernced about. Andy Reid repeatedly said he was pushing the limits of the offense and wanted to see how much Mahomes could handle....they weren't worried about it all....it was party of training camp prep.

I think it would be good for the NFL if 5 or 6 teams actually came out as big ground and pound style teams and were successful. I miss the 90’s NFL where you had some ground and pound like KC, some west coast like SF, a couple of Run and Shoot teams, like Houston, and then you had the dynamic Bills and Cowboys. I remembervas a Chiefs fan, part of the week leading up to a game was talking about adjusting to the different style of offense you were facing in a given week. There was a lot of variety. Now teams either run a spread or some variation of a pass heavy west coast.

From afar, I thought Buffalo was going to be pretty good under Ryan...it looked like you all were about to turn the corner there for a bit....

As the lines have become small and quick...I've wondered if it would now be a good idea to go get a couple really big Jerome Bettis backs..big hulking fullback, and then a QB like Cam Newton..and run or RPO out of some big sets......these teams who stay in the nickel almost the whole game would get bowled over if they came up against something like that....I think if it happens it will almost be by accident....some coach who doesn't have a great QB, but somehow has a big TE or a bruiser type RB decides he has nothing to lose and goes double TE with an I formation because that's what he has....would be something to see for sure...

The article is directly related to the original poster and his thoughts on the vertical passing game disappearing etc.

https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2018/9/11/17844496/patrick-mahomes-ii-is-here-to-save-the-deep-ball-and-destroy-the-nfl

I did some research on this a couple years ago after we drafted Mahomes.....I took every QB who had started in a superbowl going back 20 years (this was a couple years ago so didn't include Foles) ....The reason I chose only super bowl starters is simply that if you are a QB and were good enough to be starting in a SB, that is about as good a baseline as I could come up with for what constituted a "good" or "Successful" QB. What I found was that of all the QB's on my list, over the course of their first 16 STARTS, the guys who sat, had a QB rating in those first 16 starts that was nearly identical to the guys who started right away. IF there were a benefit to sitting, then you would think that there should be some tangible difference in QB rating over the first 16 games....the idea being, all these QB made it to a super bowl, so they were good...so the benefit of sitting should have shown up when they got on the field having had more time to practice, more time to study, more mentoring. The numbers DO NOT show that at all. .......and I have posted this other places on this board....but IN SPITE of my own thoughts and my own research to back up that starting is better than sitting..Josh Allen is the rare case where I think actual, tangible improvement might have come from practice to work on some things and bad habbits that come from scrambling behind a bad line, and having inferior talent to work with..... On the other hand...Josh Allen might be perfect for the Bills because, having played behind a bad line in college, and had inferior targets to throw to....he should actually be able to come right in feel comfortable with the situation around him.....and throw for 45% completion pct. Good luck. The kid isn't ready.

I watched the "every Josh Allen pass" video from the Baltimore game. It's glaringly obvious that his arm is special. I won't go as far as to evaluate his decision making etc...in a game you are down by 40, the defense isn't doing much at that point, but what is crystal clear is that Allen can put alot of mustard on a football. I see they are starting Allen this week. I don't think it will go well because I don't believe he is ready....if they thought he was, he would have started week 1. In retrospect, the "process" to start a veteran while Josh sat.....is still the right call to me...but a big mistake was trading Tyrod....if you keep him and start him, your coach has ALOT more credibility to keep Tyrod at the helm because he is a seasoned veteran, coming off at least being at the helm as you made a playoff appearance. Peterman sucks....and now your coach has basically no choice but to throw Allen in because he'll lose the locker room if he runs Peterman back out there. Not optimal.

I don't need to do that....I've made that case all over this board...no need to do it again right now.... Consider this Bills fans.....IF you all believe in the process etc....then you really need to embrace what that entails...WAY too many of you (not all) haven't honestly considered what the current FO is having to do here.... 1. You are in salary cap hell. There simply isn't any magic that fixes that until you get past all this dead money. 2. You did in fact draft a QB who isn't ready to go out of the box. That's FINE for now as long as you understand that is what you have right now...and even if he is more ready than that, your roster isn't. 3. Your team made the playoffs in a year where you had a negative point differential and some stuff fell your way. Matt Cassel once led one of the worst Chiefs teams I have ever seen, to a division title using smoke a mirrors one year...the schedule broke just right, every bounce went our way...the underlying stats and the eye test told us all they were awful. The Bills are aweful, and they weren't that much less awful last year. Given that...at this point, you are on schedule. If you can just come to terms with the idea that THIS year is going to be miserable and it has to be that way to wait out the cap and to develope your QB, you'll be fine. in 2019, you'll be picking top of draft and have money to spend....AND if it is meant to be, then Allen will have become more NFL ready. You can then spend big on that roster to actually then find out if the QB you have is the man. This may or may not work but at MINIMUM, you have to let these guys undue the cap hell and see Allen through enough to determine if they got it right or not. Any new regime would have to carry through with the SAME plan for the first year at least anyway. Stay the course. Watch a lot of college football to see wich D Lineman you like this year...supposed to be a prime D Lineman draft coming up. Watch some youtubes of your reactions making the playoffs....it sucks, but the real progress can't begin until you get through this year. Good luck.

Someone had asked about the summary of the trade involving Mahomes etc...here it is....but it doesn't include any subsequent moves to get further up in this years draft for Allen. Chiefs Get : QB Pat Mahomes (R1 pick 10, 2017) Bills Get: CB Tre White (R1 pick 27, 2017) Pick 91 (R3 pick 91, 2017) packaged with other picks for trade up to 37. Rams used pick on S John Johnson. Bills go to (R2 pick 37, 2017) and select WR Zay Jones. Pick 21 (R1 pick 21, 2018) packaged with other picks for trade up to 16. Ravens traded out with Titans who used the pick on LB Rashaan Evans. Bills go to (R1 pick 16, 2018) and select LB Tremaine Edmunds. Esentially, after it was all said and done, it was Mahomes for Tre White, Zay Jones and Tre Edmunds more or less ish.

I stand by this.

Something of note here....TWO Bills O-lineman were claimed on waivers. I don't what that says about the Bills line...maybe it's better than anyone thinks...maybe they can't evaluate line talent and cut some guys they shouldn't have? ....I don't know....just saying for a team that had O line problems in the preseason, having TWO of your cut O lineman get claimed is a mystery.

The good news is that having Peterman, McCarron and Allen at QB right now, means you don't have big money tied up with them so you can absorb some dead money without too much pain. The bad news is, if your GM keeps doing things like this trade, or way overpaying for Star Loltelui, then it won't matter. ....it's still the NFL...and in the NFL the QB is king. if Josh Allen works out, this will be but a minor footnote....but at this point you really really need Allen to work out....he's literally going to be what keeps this regime here and working or fired within the next two years and starting ALL OVER AGAIN.

I have no idea if they would do it or not, but Green Bay has TWO first round picks next year (they got one from the Saints when New Orleans moved way up to take that pass rusher from San Antonio) If you are Green Bay, you aren't going to be picking up high in the next draft, and the Saints aren't either. Those are a couple of mid to late round 1 next year. I'd think they'd be strongly considering that....becasue Green Bay is ALWAYS Aaron Rodgers plus one player away.

If you are going to take box score stats and project those out to how a guy will do in the pros......errr......uh......nevermind.

Hurry up and get here regular season!

....Exactly....They didn't want to pay 17 M to a guy to sit on the bench who was going to lose his job to Pat Mahomes. The guy on the bench would be the 2017 "Passer Rating Leader" and a pro bowler. .....That is why we are excited...we beleive we have someone good enough to beat out the NFL passer rating leader, etc. It was exciting drafting him...but everyone is excited when they draft a new QB...if he sucked Smith wouldn't have been traded. Not quite the same as being exicted after 2 pre season games (and yes, the fans in KC were every bit as giddy after 2 Mahomes preseason games as Bills fans are for Allen)

.....I count myself as one of those critics....and I will gladly back down if Allen continues to shine when he's playing in a real football game.....you all have every right and every reason to be encouraged....He has looked like a good QB prospect should look so far. I'm just not buying that a guy with his on field history has suddenly been cured of all his ailments after some workouts iwth Jordan Palmer, a training camp, and 2 preseason games....The same coach who had Carson Wentz, should have been able to identify these and fix them...and didn't or couldn't...but now he's suddenly fixed?.....IF that IS the case...then myself and a TON of others will have been completely wrong..PLUS, it would be a major major defeat of the analytics crowd who all say Allen should be a monumental bust.

This would be a great example of IRONY except that instead of fans all speculating etc....the Chiefs front office and staff drafted the guy....then having seen him for a whole year in their system, practices, preseason and 3 quarters of a no implication regular season game.....they made the statement that they have a known quantity when they traded away Alex Smith who still had a year at 17 million left on his contract. The enthusiasm for Mahomes at this point is based on something other than preseason games. The staff told everyone very loudly that know they have something when they moved on from Smith voluntarily.

Pick any big time QB then from the first round that was supposed to be somebody. Cade McNown...Jim Druckenmiller.....Joey Harrington....pick one or all....I'll go find preseason game summarys for all of them if you want....you are missing my point. Allen is playing vanilla defenses, who aren't discguising coverages etc..they aren't gameplanning for him...like every game 1 and 2 of preseason ever. Allen has looked pretty good so far....and he should. I still don't think he'll make it (I am just a nobody on a message board with an opinion) ....I'd temper my expectations until I'd seen him against some NFL defesnes who are gameplanning, playing all their starters etc. That's it...I am not saying Allen is Leaf or Russel or Jeff George or Jim Kelly, Aaron Rodgers etc.... You are probalby right.....I shouldn't be raining on the parade at this time.....seriously...I'd be super STOKED if I were a Bills fan having had no real QB since Kelly and this guy looks good so far.....again....I am not rooting for Allen to fail....I want him to succeed....I'd like the Bills to be a good NFL contender again.

This is a good assesment....Mahomes looked pretty good. One throw was AWFUL. and it was picked. The other near pick, was iffy....the WR (Watkins) should have kept moving....but you could call it either way I guess.....Mahomes had thrown a TD pass the prior play that was called back for a very tacky RT lined up off the line of scrimmage call...but that happens. Mahomes will have some moments that make you bang your head on a wall. We expect that for every one of those, he'll make some plays that make the difference in a game most of the time.....and maybe an occasiona Patomic Bomb.

I think he meant me.

I'm not comparing him to those guys, or any other guys....just saying that preseason games are not very good indicators of regular season play for QB.