Zerovoltz

Couple of thoughts here. KC has outscored the other team 59-9 in the first quarter this year. In all 5 games, the other team had the ball first. Denver Hadn't lost a home game with a lead of 10 or more in the 4th quarter until KC did it a couple weeks ago. Jacksonville hadn't allowed a first half TD this year until they played KC Jacksonville hadn't allowed a 300 yard passer in their last 15 games until KC did it. (That includes their win over the PATS) Jacksonville had never trailed in any game this season by more than 3 points until KC. If KC wins this game they will have 2 game or better leads on New England, Jacksonville, and Pitsburgh, WITH tiebreakers head to head on all three, for 1st in the AFC.

I'm not going to tell your the Chiefs D is "good"....but they aren't nearly as bad as their yardage totals indicate. We have outscored teams 59-9 in the first quarter this year..(that is with the other team starting the game with the ball ALL 5 games so far)..teams have had to play catch up to us/we blow them out....lot's and lots of garbage yards in that total.

The Jimmy G who was barely winning games, and threw 7TD and 5 pics in those 5 games? That guy? LOL. I don't suspect many of you have had many chances to watch Mahomes play..the guy from twitter isn't wrong about what he says about Mahomes game. He is accurate from anywhere on the field moving left or right...AND, he is just isn't phased by pressure. He never stops looking downfield. You may find my thoughts on this to be biased...and thats fair....but go watch some film/games/etc.....I'm not trying to portray him as something that you can't see when you look for yourself.

little late but also, Congratulations Bills fans for the win today.....you knocked me out of my eliminator pool so thanks for that.

Yav....It was Mahomes worst game of the season...and if you are going to quote box scores, that's fine...the box score is what it says it is....but by the time the Chiefs had gotten out to a 23-0 lead, Mahomes had been great....making plays to extend drives...LONG drives. Kelce dropped a TD and it didn't matter. Mahomes was never going to make it through the season with no INTS....he was playing in poor weather, the first iNT...(both ints came after the game was well in hand) was one where the ball slipped out of his hand has he was throwing....the other one was finaly, a poor decision. ......He played a very good overall game, especially when the outcome hadn't been decided, and completely rendered the No.1 Defense impotent. Just stop man.....Mahomes is good. you were wrong. retreat and live to fight another battle on a differnt hill. You lost this one.

Ol dirty......I highlighted the word Percieved in my post....I used that word intentionally to try and distinguish between reality and perception. I agree Darnold is playing like garbage, and it is entirely possible he should be sitting as well.....I continue to think the perception at this time is that Darnold will get up to speed by taking lumps, and that the perception is that Allen will have his career ended by taking lumps because he isn't as developed.....or at minimum, he didn't see anywhere near enough quality reps in college and would benefit from quality practice reps. I do think Allen is the kind of prospect you CAN ruin by doing exactly what the Bills are doing with him now. That's why I put out the three year statement. IF you ruin Allen, you are starting over...AGAIN....and normally that is bad enough, but keep in mind that after 2020, there is going to be a labor issue, and the ownership may be inclined to just go status quo with the staff, FO, even Allen until that labor situation is settled.

......These numbers are HEAVILY skewed by the 49ers game where Mahomes went right 14 times and left only once. He's been balanced in the other games. Good luck with thinking his tendancy is going right.....he goes where the best chance to complete the pass is.

Members 180 290 posts Report post Posted June 29 (edited) My worthless 2 cents. I think it will be Peterman. ....it could be McCaron, but the important thing here is that the question being asked should be Allen or someone else. The someone else part doens't really matter what their name is or who they are. Some of you posting here have mentioned that Allen was drafted, knowing that there will need to be some time to develop. that has not changed. he's been mostly running with the 3's. He's also lived up to his scouting report. Big arm, athletic. smart. looks like the god of QB's in a no pressure practice type situation (like he always has) I'd venture to say that at some point in the season he will start, but not game one...here is why: 1. The Bills opening 8 games are so are brutal. Let one of your low dollar, not in the future plans, scrub QB's take those hits and losses. No need to expose Allen to the brutal speed and harshness of the NFL over these first 8 games. 2. The Bills offensive roster isn't very good. I'm not a Bills fan as you all know....just objectively looking at your roster on the offensive side of the ball...it's frankly pretty bad. Again, let the other QB's come in and have to work with this less than optimal talent level to start with. Perhaps after 8 games, the talent level won't be much better but at least there will have been some time for the O-line to develop some cohesiveness and maybe some guys emerge here and there. 3. There should be no illusions that this is a playoff team, and certainly not a contender at this point. Let the other QB's take the wrath of the fans and media while Allen remains the golden boy in waiting, the great hope of the future, unstained by what will probalby be a pretty miserable opening to the season. Bring him in when the fans and media no longer are clinging to any hope that this team is has any realistic post season asperiations.....Then the focus can be on watching Allen and seeing how he does game to game..hopefully finding tangible evidence of improvment until the end of the season....giving you something to be hopeful about in 2019 when they can also spend to improve his weaponry, his o line...another draft...etc. You all like to point at "the process". Starting week 1 would be kind of anti process. sacrifice Peterman and McCaron so that Allen can have the best shot at sustained success (if he is ever to have it) Week 1. Someone not named Josh Allen. Edited June 29 by Zerovotlz

....I don't know if this is the answer or not...but I think it was/is perceived and continues to be thought, that Darnold was a fairly NFL ready product coming out of college....that isn't the same as a GOOD QB.....but that his foundational skills, technique, reps taken, playing against high level competition....he'd been exposed to a lot of that in college and that his next steps developing would be from taking reps on the NFL field, getting used to the speed of that game, faster players and all that.....in other words, Yes, Darnold isn't playing well, but again, the idea is that his development toward playing well will come from NFL reps. There isn't anything left for him to do on a bench. That isn't the percieved case with Allen (and I've said it all over this board when making the argument for him to be sitting) ....I'll say it again. Allen was always going to be a project...the rare guy coming out of college who would actually benefit by being on the bench, practicing, improving his technique, learning to read a defesne, getting used to the speed of the game. HE DIDNT GET ANY OF THIS IN COLLEGE like the other prospects did. As mentioned several times prior....Knowing your roster is poor on offense...knowing it's going to be a lost year while you wait to get out of cap hell...AND coming off an unexpected playoff birth, thus giving your coaching staff a big credibility boost....you had all the goodwill and support you'd need to withstand a throwaway season keeping Allen on the bench ALL YEAR to get him ready for next year, when you have money to spend, a high draft pick to spend on something good....etc. By failing to get a servicable QB body, the staff has already completely squandered the goodwill of the fans, and their playoff drought breaking credentials. If the Bills looked awful with Mike Glennon or someone like that at QB this year, you all would be upset, but halfway through the year, you'd all eventually reconcile your dissapointment with the hope that the Staff that broke the drought knew waht they were doing, that Allen was a project that needed time and that 2019 was really going to be a fun and hopeful time to look forward to. Now, if Allen doesn't show improvement, etc....you go into 2019 with some wondering if you need to look at QB again, need a new staff again, if anyone will want to come to Buffalo to play. To summarized. Allen on bench for 2018 = Hope for 2019, excitement to see Allens progress, excitement for the free agent and draft aquisitions. Hope abounds. Allen on field for 2018 = Doubt about the competancy of the staff. Doubt about talent evaluation. And if Allen shows no progress, then doubt about the QB situation, doubt that any good FA will want to show up for a team that might need to start over at QB and (by default) with yet another FO. Basically, the entire 3 year future of the franchise now rides ENTIRELY on what Josh Allen does with the rest of this season.

Titans 16 Bills 6. I went with the Titans in my eliminator pool thinking this is the only time all season I’ll have any confidence in them to win. Bills will probably ruin it for me ?

I saw some of your thougtht in the above threads....you've been entirely consistant throughout this whole thing....my hats off to you sir for sticking to your guns.

Just a counter to the Fire whoever passed on Mahomes thread....just pointing out the vast majority of the fanbase wanted to trade out and pass on Mahomes.

These are all straight from the TBD Archives, staring, You all. Here is this gem, discussing trading out of 10 pre draft....amazing how many people were calling for a trade back into the 20's so you could pick up the extra 2018 First round pick. "The Frankish Reich" has a very prophetic quote in this one. .....this one not so much.... Another long one with MOST eveyrone on board with trading down and passing Mahomes. This one is just gold.... Interesting pre draft take here

This is another quote that keeps coming up over and over and over again...... A) If every QB, no matter how talented or good they look in any other offense or on any other team, would do no better than Josh Allen, then WHY expend all the draft capital to draft Josh Allen? B) If any QB, no matter how talented, or not, they are, would look as good as Mahomes does now, then why didn't Alex Smith do this with same offense and weaponry?

.....I have to laugh at the “wait until they get film on him” takes. Watson was throwing a lot of Ints last year and a lot of 50/50 passes. The tape showed that he isn’t as effective from the pocket. Dak never was especially accurate without a strong play action game. what are teams going to actually see on film watching Mahomes? That in the pocket he will go through reads quickly, get the ball out quickly? That he looks off safeties and no looks a pass the other way? Or that you send pressure he just runs left or right and still throws strikes 25 yards down field? He has more completions with his off hand (1) than he has interceptions (0) Mahomes is different.

90% chance of steady rain at game time does not help us (KC)

Heard a rumor in KC that you all might trade Lawson to us. Sign me up. He can’t be worse than what we have here.

I am bumping this again because it's right after Mahomes Monday night magic and alot of you are over reacting or mis remembering the situation in 2017. First a refresher......your owner made the odd call of hiring a new coach, and leaving Whaley in place for the draft. The new coach, a defensive minded coach, wasn't about to draft a QB on his own, less than expert opinion....and he wasn't going to draft one on the recomendation of Whaley, who was leaving (have seen some rumors Whaley liked Mahomes) .....So this doesn't come down on McDermott...he wasn't in a position to make this call with any confidence, and since his job would be and IS, riding on the future of the QB position, he couldn't make this call at the time. Whaley didn't have control of the picks....he was providing scouting info to McD....ironically, IF Whaley was right about both MAHOMES and TRE WHITE...props to Whaley. .....the choice to avoid QB in 2017 was due to the owners method of reshaping his front office and staff....there is where the blame goes. I'm not a Bills fan, but your current staff isn't the reason you didn't take a QB...that was Pegula. Now, that said (again) .....your staff was all set, all the moves and trades etc were made and you ended up with Allen (I am well quoted here saying Mayfield, was the man, then I liked Rudolph second. then Darnold, Rosen, and NOT either of Allen or Jackson so I won't go over that again) ...you have Allen. You've all read the scouting reports...You know what you have...so...while you will always look back at 2017 at Mahomes, Watson etc....the guy you need to be looking at is TRUBISKY. I'm not telling you Trubs has arrived as a QB....but I am telling you that GIVEN THE CIRCUMSTANCES and that you drafted Allen, your realistic assements of Allens developement need to be based on the Bears and Trubisky. The bears had a decent D and a crappy O all last year. They spent heavily this past offseason to upgrade the weapons for Trubs...you will be doing the same this upcoming offseason. Trubuisky was not good last year...he didn't look good most of the time....there were instances here and there that some could point to that suggested he might be able to improve, but no one really thoguht much of him after a season. He hasn't been much to look at this year either, until this past game where he really lit it up with the 5 TD in the first half. It's been a boon of optimism for the folks in Chicago who were really dreading that they had missed on their QB. Alot of football to play, but Do yourselves a favor....forget 2017....that happend, it was pegulas fault. Let your coach and GM have a minute to get out of cap hell and see if you got something in Allen or not....it's going to suck ALL YEAR most likely....compare to the 2017 Bears and Trubs.....see if you can identify similarities or even points where Allen may be ahead of that schedule if there are any.....you will be misserable trying to look at what KC etc are doing...your TEAM isn't there right now.....The path is the bears....that is who you are trying to catch and pass.

Kendall fuller dropped a game ending INT the play before.

It is hard to measure progress without a comparable player or situation. I was thinking a comparable player and situation would be Mitch Trubisky with the Bears. He was drafted onto a team with a decent RB and no other weapons. The D was decent. They spent the whole first year that way then spent this offseason to add to the offense. Mitch didn’t have a good first year. 7 tds, 7 ints. Low yardage etc. he hadn’t been all that much better thus far until today. PS. Allen wasn’t very good against the Vikings as these things go. The defense gave him short fields, he fumbled three times, and the Bills fell on all three. He threw a few balls that should have been picked and his one deep pass was a well under thrown duck that the receiver got under and the defender overran. Compard to Mitch as the season goes. He’s a good measuring stick for the player and situation

I've addressed this in other threads....I came here because the Bills traded out of 10 and we moved up for Mahomes. I am fascinated by the dynmaic of that trade and it's even more interesting since the Bills opted to participate in the QB class of 2018 instead. I am SURE that I rub some folks here the wrong way at times....but this is a really fun board with smart fans. I enjoy reading and posting here even though I am a Chiefs fan. (local boards are WAY WAY too homeristic) I am not against Allen....I have stated that I don't think he will succeed, but I am rooting for him to prove me, the metrics people and many scouts wrong...he's a great story, and I don't hate the Bills at all....I hate the Broncos and Raiders. Anyhow...good smart fans...lots of inteligent discussion.

.....so Allen, who has played only a couple fewer games than Mahomes, isn't subject to getting tape and teams adjusting?

I would implore anyone here to consider the following: Alex Smith had ALL the SAME WEAPONS and 4 out of the 5 same linemen...the lone exception being Sammy Watkins. Watkins is nice piece to have, but I think if anyone can understand this, it's Bills fans....Watkins isn't the reason for the offensive explosion we are having. Smith has had 5 years of Reid, plus all the same weapons and he was the WORST RED ZONE QB in the NFL the last two years...and last year alone....44% completion pct to THESE GUYS? .....Alex Smith is a good QB, and he wasn't even close to putting up these kind of numbers with this coach and these weapons.....We'd be 1-2 at best with Smith right now. Mahomes IS the reason this is happening.....he's the difference between this year and last.....and if he was in Buffalo right now, you'd be 2-1. Lastly....I watch the plays he makes....sure there are a good number with guys wide open....but watch Mahomes as he turns his entire body, and head to the right, and the safety runs over that way, then Mahomes, in and instant, seemingly without even looking, snaps back to the middle and rips a dart to Kelce...who IS now wide open down the seam because Mahomes literally willed the safety away. Call me a homer, that's fine....but this isn't flash in the pan, jump ball garbage getting caught all game long (Like Watson last year) ....He's on another level.

Lol! Yeah, beating the Chargers and Steelers on the road to open the season is as creme puff as it gets in the NFL. He wouldn’t have 13 red and 0 I think, but he would be playing at a high level. Your line would look better. Mahomes gets the ball out quick. Some other points. None of the games have been shootouts. The Chiefs have built huge leads in all 3 and then kind of let off the gas. The other team gets a bunch of garbage yards trying to come back. The scores in all three are not indicative of how the games went. They aren’t close. some said Allen’s WR have dropped passes that would make his stats better. Umm....that’s happened in KC as well. some suggest that Mahomes has an advantage sitting for a year. I’d contend KC wasted his rookie year having him sit. He’s looked as good as he his now from the git go. A few few of you clearly have SEEN him play while others have seen the box score. Mahomes is a cyborg. Reads the field in a hurry and gets the balm out quick. Makes throws into tight spots, keeps eyes always downfield. He’s special. If you put Alex Smith back out there, he wouldn’t have 13 TD and 0 ints. Smith had all but one of the same guys last year and couldn’t perform anywhere close to this. Mahomes is is going to break the NFL TD record this year. im not telling you to be sad about it. Maybe later it could be that way but because you took Allen, you have that prospect and hope. Mahomes isn’t the comparison to make right now. A better measurement should be ALLEN vs Keenum. ALLEN bs Rosen and maybe Allen Trubisky. The first two are scenarios the Bills could have had this year. The Trubisky scenario is more appropriate because that is going to be the Bills path. Drafted a QB, then the following year, spend money on upgrades. These all are better benchmarks.

Happy Days...first, your assesment of Watson and mine are the SAME. Watson was a turnover machine last year that threw up a lot of junk that was hauled in by his talented WR. He hasn't changed..he is the exact same guy he was last year...just not as lucky with the garbage throws. He often doesn't progress through reads and if he doesn't like what he sees, he looks to run (wich he is good at, so not all bad but) ....A lot of folks got on that bandwagon last year...I was not one of them. I would like to take a little issue with your notion that Mahomes is throwing to wide open guys..sure, sometimes he is...but if you take the time to watch the film...he throws guys open. looks off the safety....it's incredible. ....and lastly....to be a downer....Mahomes and Allen are NOT the same prospect. Try as many of you may....Allen is inaccurate...he has always been inaccurate. Mahomes was a 63% completion pct thrower....and I have no idea where the turnover machine rep comes from..he threw 10 INTS in a million attempts his last year in college. Both had scouting reports that said footwork was poor. Wich is true...Mahomes and Allen both had very bad footfork in college. The other thing......Mahomes looked like a stud the very first preseason game, and all preseason he played in his rookie year...you could already see what Andy Ried saw in the kid the moment he threw a couple passes....the throwing guys open, the pocket pressence..the scanning of the field...it was evident. .....it's why alot of us got excited so quick....we could see the physical tools AND the mental part was close already. ....I know I'll get blasted by some here....Allen hasn't looked like that. I've watched the "every throw" from every game he has played in for your guys. He has a cannon...you can see that for sure...but he isn't accurate, and he does NOT throw guys open. Maybe it comes with more time, more timing with his recievers...I was impressed with how hard he is to take down....dragging Igram accross the field was pretty cool. That is a trait you can't teach...so there is that. No reason to call the kid a bust ...he's a rookie....but it should be clear that there is A LOT of work there to be done if he's going to make it.