Zerovoltz

Uh....ummm.....err.....hmmm. Murray going 1/1 to Arizona.

He's going 1/1 to Arizona....they will run the spread. He is going to be very good. He is the best QB in this draft.

I continue to stand by this. Murray is the one guy in this draft that is the difference maker. You don't pass on a difference maker.

There is more to consider than just this “effectiveness “ formula. if it is 3rd and 7 for example, and Allen doesn’t see the RB open on the wheel route, pulls the ball down and runs for a gain of 5, that is NOT a positive football play. On 1st and 10, play action, slot Wr is open down the seem. Qb doesn’t see it, throws to TE on out route for 6. That also isn’t optimal. Alex Smith would do less than optimal things like this all the time. These plays look great in a stat sheet because they are positive plays when only accounting for raw numbers. Aside from the completion pct issue (and it is an issue) Allen was not efficient at being optimal. He didn’t get the most out of a given play most of the time. These missed opportunities are what is hardest to see but also most often lead to stalled drives and 3s instead of 7s Where Allen and the team need to get better (this includes passing accuracy) is getting the max value of a given snap more often. not that anyone here cares about Mahomes but literally running only 9 more total plays on offense last year than the year before with Smith, Mahomes was twice as efficient. Where it really shows is in the Red Zone when there is less field to defend. Allen was 12/27 for 49 yards 4 TD an 1 INT. Matt Barkley played in ONE game for you and he was 4/7 for 33 yards and 3 TD in the red zone. Jimmy Garropolo only played in 3 games last year. He was 9/16 for 76 and 3 TD. Allen has to be more efficient period. No sugarcoated cherry picked stats change that. And that’s fine. lets see how he does with some roster upgrades and a year of off season work.

You have to look at this like a choice of Murray vs Rosen. If you think Murray is better, you take him. A team that moved on from a coach after one year, then hired Kliff Kingsbury isn’t going to worry about moving on from the 4th QBs off the board last year. They will have trade partners. NE SD NO will all make that call. murray is the one major QB prospect in this draft. He will go 1/1 to Arizona

This is kind of what I am wondering about....KC has Kelce....KC doesn't have a good 2nd TE at all...in fact, there is a thread here about you guys asking about our FA TE Demetrrious Harris. (You don' want him.) ....I think, based on the overall responses here, I'd welcome Clay at the right price to be a 2. Thanks for all your input.

It's no secret I'm a Chiefs fan.....KC will be in the TE2 market. I know from being around this board a while, Charles Clay has fallen out of favor here. Wondering what your evaluation of him is? I am curious if he'd be a good fit as our TE2 in KC....how is he as a blocker? route runner? etc? I know you all are pissed he didn't catch that dying duck Allen threw in Miami...but as objectively as you can...what and who is Charles Clay at this point in his career?

....consider Mahomes was a coin toss away from singlehandedly dragging the NFL's worst defesne to a super bowl. .....Also bear in mind that against the same Belechick/Flores defesne that stymied the Rams....it stymied the Chiefs for a half....Mahomes figured it out and put up 31 points on that defense in the second half of the AFC title game. The Rams D that held the Pats to 13 points....Mahomes put up 50 on it. ....and it's not even the numbers....it's clear a few here just have haven't seen him play....he does things NO ONE does. They cut the 2017 NFL leading rusher midseason...and he didn't miss a beat. Many of you here see it....I'm not talking to you folks...just the holdouts who don't want to admit Mahomes is good.....or is the product of the system the McNabb, Vick, Alex Smith, Foles, etc...never put anywhere close to the same numbers in.....and it wasn't becasue they tried to bump Mahomes nubmers...KC ran 9 more total plays in 2018 than they did in 2017.....with the same weapons etc.....Mahomes was that much better. Besides...it's not like you ended up with nothing....Tre White is very good and you have Josh Allen....I don't know what Allen will be yet, but he's exciting and he represents hope for the future....much better than if you had traded out, drafted Ruben Foster and then missed on QB's this passed draft. Nothing wrong with acknowledging that Mahomes is really good AND being excited for your own teams prospects.

I've learned that you shouldn't use the word "Accuracy" when talking about Josh Allen. Accuracy doesn't apply. Use Acumen. Allen isn't inaccurate.....at least that's what i've read here. I stand by what I said...if he wins..."wow, too bad he can't actually throw it to a target etc etc." ....and if he loses. "not only is Pat Mahomes better in every statistical category, he can also throw it farther than Allen too!" ....just let everyone wonder...Bills fans take some pride claiming to have the biggest arm QB in the NFL.....why do something that might change that? Frankly...there are videos out there, easy to find, show Mahomes throwing 70+ yards in the air...including one where he does 60 from his knees...

1. I'd love to see it. 2. This is a lose / lose for Allen. If he lost, then one of the few positive, tangible, claims Bills fans make "Allen can throw it further than anybody!" would no longer be valid......and if Allen did win, it likely wouldn't be by much, and it would only serve to further highlight the obvious issues with passing acuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuumen. He'd be better off just leaving things alone and letting Bills fans believe he has the biggest arm ever.

We get so lost in the shuffle that no one remembers we won Super Bowl IV.

We hear you America....we will answer the clarion call!

For Bills fans interested in Morse, Tardiff etc. KC has a good line when all are healthy or 4 of 5 it’s still good. We had a period toward the end of the year when we were without both starting guards and it was clear that we couldn’t scheme around TWO backups. Vs the Colts, we got Cam Erving back, and so that just left one backup starting. We are fine in that scenario. What that hat means to the Bills - 1. Mitch Morse will be a free agent. He is a VERY GOOD center. He has had some health issues and missed some big chunks of time here and there. KC signed his backup to an extension a few weeks ago further indicating Morse won’t be around next year. Rieter, the backup, played well when Mitch was out. If you think he can stay healthy, you are getting a solid solid player. 2. LDT would be a trade candidate if we were in cap he’ll, but we aren’t. He is better than the backup. I wouldn’t suspect he’d be available in a trade.

This isn't a guy you want. Bad hands. Doesn't help in the run game either. Has a knack for a spectacular catch 2 or 3 times a season..and its a big surprise every time it happens because he drops A LOT of routine stuff. Already been suspended for substance abuse once......this isn't a case of a talented guy being buried on the depth chart behind the leauges best TE....even though that is true....he'd be buried on a lot of other teams depth charts as well. He won't be missed in KC.

You just keep moving the goal posts further and further back....NOTHING you've had to say about Mahomes has been remotely close to accurate. Mahomes threw for 25 TD and 2700 yards to guys not named Hill, Kelce and Watkins this year. His numbers to just the other scrubs on the team would have ranked him in the top half of QB's for the year. He has done this with the Worst D in the NFL, and lost the support of a pro bowl RB who they had to "kick" off the team....KC's 4 losses were by a combined 21 points. Alex Smith had the same weapons, coaches and BETTER D than this and could barely must HALF Mahomes production. By the way...KC ran and threw at the same ratio they did last year...so this isn't about volume of attmepts etc....Mahomes is simply that much better and way more efficient....I don't often say this about anyone as all kinds of people have all kinds of opinions...but you sir...you do not know what you are talking about.

Wow.....alot to talk about here. The day will come when it's time to pay Mahomes....he is going to get a ton of money...and he'll be one of those guys that takes up a bunch of cap room....and he'll be worth it because he does make everyone around him better. I'd even speculate that QB salaries are about to flatten a little bit because teams are seeing that overpaying for mediocre QB's has been a mistake...so there is a little bit of dial back coming on these future contracts...plus...Mahomes isn't due for an extension before the 2020 labor agreement happens...who knows what that will look like. Um....that 284 and 1 pick was in Mahomes very first start, wich was week 17 AT Denver...it was the only game he played in....and for some context..Mahomes played the first half, and a little of the 3rd quarter. got KC out to a 2 TD lead, then sat on the bench while Tyler Bray came in and threw a pick 6 to Denver, then fumbled and Denver tied the game with 3 minutes left. Mahomes came back in and led KC on the winning drive...part of that drive was a 3rd and 14 where Von Miller is all over him and he is running to his right full speed, and uncorks a strike accross his body as he is being tackled, for a 20 yard completion with 3 defenders all around....he put up 284, and the one pick in 3 quarters, in his first ever game, and led a 4th quarter game winning drive....context is important. I really can't add anything to this...it just sums up half the posts in the thread perfectly though. While you debate this Allen/Mahomes thing...I can tell you with the utmost certainty....Buffalo won this trade for sure. Ragland is SLOW. Great question.....I can explain it. Cleveland decided Myles Garrett was a can't miss no brainer safe pick at 1. San Francisco, probably thought they'd be in on Kirk Cousins the following offseason...and apparently Lynch wasn't into any of the QB available on top that..so traded to the Bears...who took Trubisky.....who they clearly thought was better, otherwise they would have taken Mahomes. The Jags, took Leonard Fournette at 4...they had Bortles, who they still believed in and had OLD SCHOOL Tom Coughlin calling the shots....at 5, the Titans already had Mariotta...and they took Corey Davis WR...trying to get him more weapons. At 6, the Jets took Jamaal Adams...you could argue that they needed a QB...but they had just spent a high 2 on Christian Hackenburg in the 2016 Draft...and wanted to see that through (clearly a mistake) At 7 The Chargers, who already had Rivers...took WR Mike Williams...at 8 Carolina who already had Newton, took McCaffrey. at 9, the Bengals...who already had Dalton...took WR John Ross (I am sure they'd like a doever as well) ...so in many of these cases...you can say that they all "Passed" on a QB..but most of them were set at QB and were trying to add parts....KC had some good fortune that the top 9 were many teams not looking at QB. And then Buffalo at 10...you've all covered it...lame duck GM....new defensive coach...wasn't going to tie his career to a QB picked by an outgoing GM...and wasn't taking one he hadn't evaluated with his new GM. So, hence the trade. LOL....50 TD in season has been done THREE TIMES...Brady, Manning and Mahomes.....he is bound to slump....just like Manning and Brady "Slumped" after 50. Last item I will leave you with.....KC rushed for 115.8 Yards per game with Hunt. KC has rushed for 116.4 without him.....really good back...but its CLEAR that the QB matters...not the RB....also....if you take away all the TD and Yards Mahomes threw to Hill, Kelce, and Watkins...Mahomes still had 25 TD and 2700 yards. To everyone else on the roster....think about that.....25 TD's would tie for 11th just on their own. I like watching Allen, I hope he gets better with a year of seasoning and some upgrades and I think he will ...but wow....

I came to this conclusion before anyone else was considering it. I stand by it, including the Haskins part instead of Murray.

If they didn't have the choice of Rosen or Haskins, then of course...but if you believe the better QB is right there to take, you take him.

Rosen: New Orleans....traded after Arizona drafts Haskins.

.....Save this post.....because it will need to be displayed right next to my Mahomes predictions here..... The Cardinals made this hire because they are going to draft Haskins. The way to look at this for Arizona isn't that they have a QB and can trade the 1/1 in the draft....(of course they COULD) but instead....look at like a chance to choose between Rosen or Haskins. Arizona absolutely has that choice right now. If you hire Kingsbury, who is going to install a spread, air it out type offense...you want HASKINS running that, not Rosen. The Arizona front office, by firing Wilks after only one season, has already shown they aren't afraid to move on from a mistake after 1 year and get someone they think is better. Haskins is better than Rosen. Arizona will keep that pick, draft Haskins, and trade Rosen to the highest bidder. I predict that bidder will be the Saints, who will probably be able to pick up Rosen for a 4th round pick...get a first round talent into their system to be the heir to Brees and fix their succession problem with a player who is still talented, on a rookie deal, that only costs a 3 or a 4 to kick the tires on? As for as Kingsbury as a HC...he has HC experience tyring to win in Lubbock, TX. He's proven he knows how to look at QB's and got them out to that ****hole to play college football. He knows offense..the leauge is clearly trending offense....this is about offense...Kliff will hire an experienced D coordinator...again, the man understand how to lead, delegate etc.....

KC not going down. I hope New England beats the Chargers.....New England, for all their history of greatness...never play well at Arrowhead...some of Bradys worst games have been in KC....and that's is the most favorable matchup for the Chiefs...chargers present more problems for us than NE does. Besides...it would make a great story for KC to rip the mantle from Brady and the Pats...kind of a passing of the torch moment.

A little bit. I thought Allen would struggle with completion PCT....and he still has. I, like many here, underestimated his athletic ability. I have been impressed with his ability to run...didn't see anwhere near the production on the ground that he produced. I thought he would be a bust...(and I still generally think that his passing efficiency needs to be much better. ..I didn't say comp %....passing efficiency.) BUT....Allen impressed me enough to believe he COULD take a step or two if given some better talent around him. He's certainly exciting, and I am looking forward to seeing if this offseason and and what should be an improved roster, produces results that show more improvement. So, yes...Allen has impressed me. I'm rooting for him. Looking forward to seeing what happens next.

......I've seen enough of Allen to believe that he offers HOPE still. You are going to upgrade the roster. He is going to get an offseason to work on issues. He DOES have intangibles, can run, leadership etc.... The Broncos Giants drafted Saquon Barkely and the Broncos took Bradley Chubb in the top 5 of the past draft. BOTH of those guys are very very good football players. And both the Broncos and the Giants SUCK. They didn't have a QB, they didn't draft a QB, and now they are facing a 2019 Draft that MIGHT have ONE QB (Haskins) worth going after....if they can even get him. 2020 is a LONG LONG way away. I would much rather be the Bills heading into 2019 with Allen, the hope that he provides...the idea you are going to load up and try and be great as opposed to the certain dread of facing another season of Case Keenum or Eli Manning...KNOWING there is NO HOPE. Brady is about done. You know Tannehill isn't a difference maker....it's the bills and Jets for AFC supremecy for the next 5 years at least. There is A LOT to look forward to in 2019. If you hadn't taken Allen in 2018, you'd be sitting here knowing 19 was going to be a waste of time...no QB to get, etc etc....What the Bills have that so many teams do not heading into 2019 is a chance to be something good and special...the Broncos, Giants, Bucs, Dolphins, Lions, Bengals, Jags....they don't have that. Dread. Misery. Despiar.....no hope. Allen = hope.

With 2 weeks left, if the Dolphins beat the Jaguars and Bills....AND the Patriots lose out to the Bills and Jets, the Dolphins would win the division, and New England would miss the playoffs.

Josh just needs a better Oline, better weaponry, more experience...etc....This could apply to BOTH josh's. I would say that the Josh who is athletic and can run is better than the Josh that can't.....but if both josh's get a line and some weapons and one Josh is completing 65% or better of his passes an the other Josh is only completing 55% or so....then that Josh will liekly pass the other Josh in the race to see who got the best Josh. Still hard to say. I predicted both would be busts...won't really be able to call it until sometime next year at the earliest.