Zerovoltz

(yeah, I am trolling a little here) ....the set up for the 2017 Draft meant that the coach and GM weren't working together. Plenty of speculation about it all...maybe so, and maybe not...but it might have prevented the Bills from taking Watson or Mahomes....wich led of course to Allen this year. ....and we simply can not say yet if this was a disaster or not...but we can certainly point to this as a point in time when the coach and outgoing GM were not likely on the same page.

I agree with your initial statement that college stats have never correlated to NFL Success....there is a long long list of college superstars who won trophies and put up "numbers" that bombed in the NFL. However, there is a stat that's been thrown out about completion percentage in college correlating to NFL failure. Someone posted an argument in here in another thread about Josh Allen having not been raised up going to clinics and camps and etc etc....and on and on..and that he is only just now getting real coaching etc. I'd buy in 100% to that argument IF he had show improvement throughout his college career. The biggest red flag to me was that his completion pct was low at JUCO, and no one out in southern california thought they could coach him up..not even the minor players out there like Fresno State or SD State or San Jose State, who have put QBs into the NFL, and always get beat to the top talents by USC, Stanford, UCLA etc...they passed. Even still, Wyoming takes the kid. ....His completion pct sucked. it sucked again, and it never quit sucking. It would bother me a great deal to see that those mid majors out in California, again, who have put QB's in the NFL...Carr, Fales, ...didn't think they could coach that out of him. ....and then he goes to Wyoming, and those guys for whatever reason...failed to coach him up. Now, I am looking at this from a far...so I am sure I am missing something here..but....The same coach (and GM) decided that a guy who had already has a 62.4 pct completion pct with 51 passing TDs against 18 pics, who has thrown for 9054 yards and rushed for 1700 yards and 15 TDs....that guys flaws can't be fixed......but they beleive they can "fix" Josh Allen? .....I'm not here to promote Tyrod Taylor. He may be Alex Smith light...not willing to throw downfield...takes off running out of clean pockets on 3rd and 8 and gains 3 and you punt....From what I have read, it may well be that Taylor had some of that going on....and if you decide that you are moving on from that...that is fine...it doens't change my point. The coaching staff couldn't fix the NFL QB who again has a stat line of 62.4% 9054 Yds, 51 TDS, 18 ints, 1700 rushing and 15 rush TD...but they can fix this other guy that almost no one thought was fixable, and then in college, didn't improve after the guys who thought he was fixable brought him into their program...... I really hope it works out for you all....you deserve a great QB.

Tell me if I'm wrong...but didn't Whaley like Mahomes?

To Hapless Bills fan. With Rosen on the board I would have thought the Bills would go Rosen, so yeah, I lucked into my Allen trade and draft. I only thought Allen because I thought Darnold Rosen and Mayfield would all be off the board.

Now that it's over....time to own up to what I said...(and take a little credit too) Here is my post from March 21st in one of the threads here....I really never much wavered from these...I posted this very same thing in many threads on this board....here it is for all to see...and for me to admit where I was wrong, and where I wasn't. Post draft comments are in bold. Posted March 21 My 2 cents. 1. Cleveland will take a QB. Not like anyone should pat themselves on the back for calling the obvious, but some here did think Barkley would go. no.1 2. NY will take a QB. They will do their due dilligence and field calls, but really they will stay where they are. The reality is, the 2019 Draft Class is going to be one of those years where ZERO QB's are drafted in round 1. It's that bad. The QB's coming out next year SUCK. The crop of potential QB free agents next year...SUCKS...compared to the bounty available this crazy offseason. Eli SUCKS....at this point. He wants to retire a Giant. I can see him accepting his mortality a bit better if he gets to finish as the mentor to his chosen successor (and not benched for Geno Smith) The Giants have considered all this. The most value they can muster from the 2nd overall pick....is to use it themselves. ROSEN. I was WRONG. I still the Giants are going to regret this. 3. The Jets will take a QB. Consider the situation in New York...they have a GM and a HC who are on short leashes. They DO NOT HAVE TIME to wait for Darnold or even worse, Josh Allen to develop. They moved up here to insure themselves Baker Mayfield. He will be ready to go day 1. He has had a billion college reps, he got better each year, he has a high completion pct. He is a big name. He has a Heisman. He is a charachter. He has JETS written all over him. ...and again...can't stress enough, he is ready to go day 1. The staff needs results sooner rather than later. I didn't think it would end up being Darnold...given the scenario that played out, if he didn't go 1, I was sure he would go 2. I was only right that this was for a QB, but that was obvious the moment they traded to 3. 4. Cleveland will take someone here not named Saquan Barkley. .....That front office just signed Carlos Hyde to good money, he is a Buckeye, and they have Duke Johnson, who has been one of their better players as the 3rd down guy on the roster. The same front office has a long history of not valuing RB high in the draft...and this one is full of RB....they can get a good one later, if they even think they need another one. We'll never really know if they would have taken Barkley here if were available. I don't think the pick would have been different...still would have been Ward. 5. Denver. No reason to be scared of these guys taking a QB....and not just becasue they signed Keenum....but consider they did sign him..to starter money. The coaching staff has been told publicly they have THIS YEAR to produce results. The Broncos still have a first round QB on the roster that Elway seems to have wiffed on, but he was supposed to be a 2-3 year project coming out. They re-upped their two WR. They are in win now mode with a coaching staff in win now mode...they simply aren't set up to draft their next QB...this staff isn't going to be around for that....they either win with Keenum or they are done and Denver will then go into rebuild mode. They will take the Guard from ND. Day one pro bowl starter at a position they need desperately. Rosen, Allen, Jackson...all on the board here...and they passed....and if Chubb hadn't been here, they would have traded out they said. They weren't ever in the QB market. 6. Colts. ...Buffalo could have offered them more than the Jets and I bet they did offer more....but as has been mentioned...Colts understand how this is playing out and at worst they will end up with the 3rd Best NON QB picking here. They will stay put. Yep. 7 bucs....another great NON QB player they like here. Barkley is my guess. I called the Bills trade up for Allen...I just didn't quite get the spot right..thought it would be at 9. 8. Bears. Spent heavily on offense in FA...take Davenport. Davenport went at 14...Bears went with very good and very safe Roquan Smith. 9. 49ers. This is where the action will be on draft night for Arizona, and Buffalo if they want something still on the QB board. I am guessing Josh Allen, Jackson and Mason Rudolph are what is left. Here is where the Bills move because Arizona will be trying to get up here too...and the Bills get Josh Allen. Again...i called the Bills to trade up for Allen...missed the pick by 2 spots. Miami is not a threat to move up. They quietly restructured Tannehill a couple weeks ago...and parting ways with him will be cap hell the next 2 seasons. They also resigned David Fales... It can't be said with 100% certainty that they would have passed Rosen if he fall to them, but they certainly didn't make an effort to move up for him...took M Fitz...Tannehill is still their guy..and I think he always was going to be. Watch out for San Diego and Pittsburg moving up to that 9 spot for Allen...and if they don't get that...both are major candidates to move around trying to get Rudolph. LOL....well Rudolph did end up in Pittsburg. I do not think Jackson will go round 1. ....but he did....barely...so I was WRONG. 1. Darnold 2. Rosen 3 Mayfield 9. Allen (to Buffalo) Trade with 49ers Perhaps my best call of this whole thing...made a whole month out with everything in flux. I will be taking a break from this place for a while...it's been great fun talking draft and QB's with all of you. This is my favorite place to come and talk football....can't emphasize enough the stark contrast of this place vs. other teams (including my own Chiefs) boards. Smart fans, who post well thought out topics and interesting comments. When the season starts, I'll be back again (if you'll have me) to see how Allen is doing, and of course to remind everyone how great Mahomes is every once in a while. I hope ultimately the trade is looked back upon by all parties as a good thing for everyone involved. I hadn't been a Bills fan before, but I'll be rooting for you on Sundays that you don't play the Chiefs and hoping that Allen turns into the QB you hope for and deserve. Best Regards.

The sling it part is what matters. At minimum, the Bills have people in charge who understand that the team needed a QB. Everyone has their opinion of Allen. That’s fine. The important part is they knew they had to get a QB and they got one.

I posted all over this board that I thought Rudolph would go in the first round....clearly you can count me among those that got that completely wrong.....so.....to offer some hope to the fans here who don't like Allen....you can all rest easier now knowing that I have been calling him a bust for months.

I got to meet him on day one of the draft down on the floor. Awesome dude!

We traded away the NFL's leading passer (a bad rating system, but its the one they use) who had led the team to back to back division titles, having thrown for over 4000 yards with only 5 INTs.....and he still had a year left on his contract for only 20 million (cheap for veteran good QB these days) ....and we traded him to so that we could start someone else. (Mahomes) ....They didn't just get rid of a good, winning, popular QB with a year left on his contract for the hell of it. ...but I understand...need to see something more before you are convinced....can't blame anyone for that....but the actions sure do speak loudly.

I was fortunate enough to be on the floor for day 1 of the draft...I felt really bad for the Bills fans on the floor..they were seated up front right by the stage....Allen was of course attending and came out...having heard a few of them talking as they shuffled by on their way out....I didn't get the impression they were stoked...but kind of had to go along with the noise because it was all going down right there in front of them.

Chiefs Get : QB Pat Mahomes (R1 pick 10, 2017) Bills Get: CB Tre White (R1 pick 27, 2017) Pick 91 (R3 pick 91, 2017) packaged with other picks for trade up to 37. Rams used pick on S John Johnson. Bills go to (R2 pick 37, 2017) and select WR Zay Jones. Pick 21 (R1 pick 21, 2018) packaged with other picks for trade up to 16. Ravens traded out with Titans who used the pick on LB Rashaan Evans. Bills go to (R1 pick 16, 2018) and select LB Tremaine Edmunds. Esentially, after it was all said and done, it was Mahomes for Tre White, Zay Jones and Tremaine Edmunds. Thank you.

Freaking Awesome! All moves, the trade last year, and you get Allen. CONGRATULATIONS!

Possible the agent is behind this? Perhaps the Allen camp has gotten wind he is going to drop due to the accuracy issues and instead of having to own up to that major flaw being why, they can point to these juvenile tweets and say that Allen was the victom of overly worried teams trying to avoid controversy? Just a farfetched theory, but who knows. AS others have mentioned...any agent and management team worth their salt would have been all over this a long time ago.

https://twitter.com/JeffDarlington/status/989214051807838209

Might be useful to have a single post/thread where all the TWITTER rumors in these last 24 hours can be posted in one place. (I have nothing to put here, just want a consolidated place for twitter rumors as they come in) Add them here as you see them. THANKS.

...(I didn't read this whole thread so probably repeating something here) .....to the original poster. Yes, the team has all of those needs. And every single one of those except QB can be readily found in later draft rounds, camp cuts from other teams, free agency...etc etc...the whole reason you expend more money, more time, more draft capital on QB is because planet earth contains about 15 guys who can actually competently man the QB position in the NFL. There are not many who can be NFL LB...but that number on planet earth is probably somewhere around 100 or 200. Same with Most of the other positions. The QB costs more because he is A) Not many people can do it and there is much more demand than supply and B) Asside from being a rare human...the position is HEAVILY weighted so that the impact of having someone who can perform makes much more difference than someone who can or can not perform at Inside LB for example. The same is true the other direction.....you can have the best ILB, OLB....K, P....G, C....bla bla bla...but the nature of QB is if he sucks..the others impact is severaly limited no matter how good they are.

Alex Smith is a WR killer. If you don't run Jarvis Landy 5 yard slants...he isn't getting that ball to you deep unless you A) are wide open and B) He stayed in a pocket long enough to actually notice you are wide open. Maclin wasn't a bad WR...he just wasn't going put up numbers with Smith. Watch the WR with the Redskins this year...you will see what I am talking about. Jordan Reed and Chris Thompson should both move up a couple rounds in your fantasy drafts because that is where Smith is going with the ball.

I don't think Mariotta will ever be more than a middling starter....almost a curse...because he is good enough that you really don't need or want to go try and draft a replacement...but not the guy who really makes the roster around him better...needs a good roster around to make him better. .....You can throw Andy Dalton in that boat along with Tannehill. I'm willing to wait one more year on Winston...I think he is the more physically gifted of the two (he and Marriotta) I think there may be another step up to be made for him..we'll see. As far as this relates to the Bills....I'd certainly be tempted to take Mariotta and leave the mystery prizes behind doors 1-6 in this draft alone....good/competent QB play is still way better than unknown draft pick QB most of the time.

Yav....you are among the group of KC fans who do not like Ried. (that's fine, I'm not going to argue for or against your stance..he hasn't won in the playoffs..he is the coach..someone has to be accountable) For whatever you think of Ried...he has a LONG history of finding talent on offense and having teams with offenses that score a lot. Reid deserves all the ciritcism that comes his way for garbage clock managment and his failure thus far to do much with KC in the playoffs. I'd still defer to Reid on matters of offense and offensive talent. That said....I do think 16 million per year for Sammy Watkins is damn steep to add a piece to what was already going to be a high scoring good offense. I think we (KC) would have been just fine with the group we had. I do think that Watkins will be a good addition IF the Chiefs turn into the 99 Rams (wich is what they are trying to do) ....If Watkins = 1999-2001 Isaac Bruce then the money will be worth it. That's hoping for quite a bit.

I think we are about to see something that has never happened before. 5 QB in top 15 picks. 1. Browns. QB. (Darnold) 2. Giants. QB (Rosen) 3. Jets. QB (Mayfield) 5. Broncos trade out to Bills, Patriots, Chargers or Cardinals. (Rudoloph) 9. Niners tradout to Bills, Chargers or Cardinals. (Allen) Jackson goes later in round 1 to the Saints. Rudolph is going to blast up the draft board. Not sure why he isn't more well liked by the media...probably because the media already has their one 6'5" guy with the big arm etc (Allen) and have kind of overlooked the otehr 6'5" guy that can't throw a ball 80 yards from his knees....but has actually play the position of QB proficiently at a big college. BORING! Allen will be the 5th off the board...and someone make a desparate pick having missed the first 4, will be taking him. Too many QB needy teams in a QB stacked draft with a poor FA and draft class in 2019....perfect storm.

I think it is entirely POSSIBLE that 6 QB go in round 1....and I think it is also POSSIBLE that 5 go in the top 15. Cleveland. QB. New York G QB New York J QB Denver trades BACK....Allen or Rudolph go at 5 to someone. 9 Niners trade BACK. Allen or Rudolph go at 9 to someone. Later on in round 1, somoene takes Lamar Jackson. I still beleive Darnold is the pick at 1. I still believe that the Giants will take a QB while the getting is good and cheap for them. It's a given the jets are taking a QB. I have said all along and continue to believe the Broncos are not in the QB market. They are in the OL market...if they trade back and miss Nelson, then they can take one of the high grade OT..Their fans don't want OL at 5 but that would be more palatable after a trade back. And again...the coaching staff has been publicaly told they have THIS YEAR. no reason to draft the QB now, that the coaches won't touch with a ten foot pole. they are tyring to win now. Mason Rudolph is about to fly up the draft board. The media doesn't want to believe it or realize it...but he's 6'5, has a good deep ball..a high completion pct playing at big school, etc etc...and it will occur to them that they could get a guy not quite the physical beast that Allen is, but who is prototypical AND he actually played college football well? .....Rudolph IS the guy NFL front offices usually say they want....He is going top 15. I think someone goes up and takes him before Allen and before Jackson. I have said for the past couple Months, he is who the Bills should be targeting considering the circumstances....I simply don't think you can sit and wait for this guy at 12. If 3 go 1-2-3 as I suspect...the Bills better be prepared to move. I completely think the Patriots, Chargers, and Cardinals will call the Broncos about 5. FOR RUDOLPH.

It's interesting how the media has so much influence on these things. Let's examine last year. That QB class wasn't hyped during the lead up to the draft, and it wasn't hyped the season before as being a class to look forward to. The media, it would seem to me, when they come to a consensus on something, they tend to roll with it. Trubisky, Mahomes, Watson and Kizer weren't good according to the media and the media maintained that message for the most part. Part of that narrative was that this class was supposed to be very good...and the media has maintained that. From an evaluation standpoint, if you looked at the 3 first round guys from last year and the first round projected guys this year....is that REALLY the case? Josh Allen is a better prospect than Pat Mahomes? (of course I am biased to Mahomes, but come on.)

I am pretty sure that quote was intended to be consumed by the local KC fanbase....they let very popular long time LB Derrick Johnson walk (for good reason, he is very old now and very slow) and many of the fans don't like it that he wasn't resigned. I think this was more to feed them something to help them understand why they moved on. I agree that inside LB in this era are hardly involved enough in high profile plays to be "stars" Unless you make a number of interceptions (not Raglands game) or sacks (not likely when he won't be blitzing much) then you aren't going to be on sportscenter (or whatever highlight media) much. I saw enough of Ragland to think he is going to be at least an above average run defender and maybe more....he is an upgrade over what we've had for sure.

This is much more likely than the Browns coming up to 2.

The Barkley hype is killing me. He was 57th out of 58 draft eligible players who were graded for yards after contact behind the line of scrimmage. He is a very good player. he is not a complete generation talent at RB. The draft is deep at RB. The Browns have plenty at RB on the roster. The Giants could use one, but you can get good ones all over the draft. RB= easy to find. EDGE= not so easy to come by. QB= hardest position in sports to find. The browns aren't taking Barkley at 1. The Giants are not taking Barkley at 2. I will buy that Giants could take Chubb at 2. So, let's examine the scenario....the Browns take Barkley at 1......this invites the Giants to maybe move a spot with the Jets...they could make a deal with the condition the Jets take QB "X" wich is a QB the Giants aren't interested in. The jets take QB X. Now the Giants are on the clock at 3. They may still very well want QB "Y" and could easily take him here...or again, could slide one more spot to 4 with Cleveland again, with the understand that Cleveland is going to draft QB "Z". Now the Giants are on the clock at 4 and can take QB "Y" or Chubb. This seems like a whole lot of what ifs and hand shake understandings that certain players are selected. ...but even worse than that...it assumes Barkley goes 1. That is the worst part...he isn't going at 1. Let's examine it another way....let's say Cleveland takes Allen at 1. What would the point be? If the Giants take Chubb and Cleveland wanted Chubb, there would be no trade. If the Giants take Barkley and that is who Cleveland wanted...no trade...it would only make sense if the Giants again, had an understanding about which NON QB they would take, maybe you could pull it off...but there just isn't much to be gained by swapping...If you already aren't taking the same player....there is nothing to gain by swapping. Its an extremely unlikely scenario simply because there is pratically nothing to be gained by the Browns or the teams to swap.