oldmanfan

Your points are moot. Has nothing to do with amount of time a career has, injuries, etc. Successful organizations built for sustained success have cultures that support such success. I am astounded at how many people here fail to grasp that. Go talk to your CEO of your company and ask her or him.

I think McD sent Daboll a message this week.

I agree this is an interesting topic for discussion, and I am not trying to take shots at your comments, merely to respond to them. You said his idea of culture is similar to his "trust the process" statements. In a way, yes. Trusting the process means to me the entirety of what McD and Beane are doing to met their vision of building a team that will compete for titles every year, and win Lombardis. Culture to me is somewhat different, and I have already indicated what I think his view of culture is: it's dedication to football. Whether it's what you're doing in the weight room, film room, practice field, or in games, are you giving maximum effort to being a successful NFL player. I like all your thoughts on strategy. All of these are important in building a team. And that roster building strategy is formulated based on establishing the kind of culture for the organization. Talent without discipline can work, but more times can be destructive. That is why they likely were not interested in a guy like Gordon. It is why Dareus got traded (as you correctly point out you don't have a DT commanding the highest salary on a team, especially if he doesn't fit the culture). I would be interested in your thoughts on the way successful franchises of the past and present have successful cultures. Part of that is having your best guys, guys like Brady, Jordan, Bird, be the guys who demand excellence from their teammates, demand accountability. Right now with the Bills it's McD driving that bus, with help from guys like Kyle and Zo. As things go forward, and as he builds the team, what one hopes to see is that the mainstays of the team (hopefully guys like Allen and Edmunds) demand that same accountability. Then you'll know you have something. Then you bring in maybe a guy that's more of a challenge and the team and its culture are so set in place that a guy like that adjusts his perspective. So to me culture is where you start. Not that strategy isn't necessary, it certainly is. Not that as part of that strategy you have to find talented players that are complementary and so on. But before you do that, you have to know who you are and what you are as a team and an organization. And that's culture. Yes I do. The reason I talked about my organization is I saw and have been a part of how changing the culture of the organization led to enhanced success. If you don't think that the culture of an organization means anything to success, then you clearly don't know anything about how successful organizations are created. I'll stand by that - the examples are far too numerous to mention, both in and out of sports.

I read your post in response to what I wrote. And based on that you clearly have no idea how successful organizations operate. What exactly did I miss?

That's because you're a fan and not the HC or GM. They want to be playing for one, or in contention for one, every year.

Good point. They have a ton of draft picks and the ability to go out and get several FAs with the cap space they cleared. The success or failure of these decisions, as well as ones already made such as Allen, will ultimately determine their fate. They will of course look for talent, but also guys they see as a fit within the organization. From that perspective, is that any different than any HR department in any company?

I don't think he's saying that. Some are thinking he is saying that talent and culture are mutually exclusive. He said nothing of the kind. He said culture trumps strategy. Not that strategy is trivial, but that to have a consistently successful team you need to establish a culture wherein football is the priority. Attention to detail, making sure you're watching film, that sort of thing is how I interpret his words. and that ultimately that is necessary to make sure you carry out your strategy to maximum effect. I pointed out earlier, and will do so here, that if you look at successful franchises in different sports you see that having a specific culture and mindset is associated with success. In basketball you look at guys like Jordan and Bird. They were dedicated to a winning culture, worked harder than any other guy on the team at practice, demanded excellence from their teammates. Very successful teams. The Canadiens back in the day under Toe Blake. They had a culture that demanded the same, and they dominated hockey for well over a decade. The Niners with Montana and Rice. Talented guys but dedicated to a culture promulgated by Walsh. There are many examples of this. YOua ctually want talented guys like this that establish a winning culture, not guys who defy a winning culture. McD has a vision of how to build a successful team, and culture is an important part of that. I would argue it is for any organization. Does it mean you ignore talent or strategy? of course not. But if you have a talented person who is disruptive of the culture, ultimately it doesn't help the team.

I asked earlier for anyone to name a successful organization of any kind that has not established a set culture. No one has come up with one yet. Not do I suspect they will. Because successful organizations spend a lot of time on defining their culture. I also noted that McD never said that culture and things like talent are mutually exclusive. Yet you have those who just like to bark at the moon saying this must be what he meant. Which of course is nonsense.

You clearly have no clue what constitutes a successful organization.

Culture is essential to any successful organization. So is talent. So is strategy. But the culture leaders set in place helps define strategy and helps identify and nurture talent. If you are on a management position you know that. I work for a health care organization with around 15 k employees. We have a culture that is focused on one thing: the patient. That drives all we do. As for strategy all of those are planned with the cultural imperative of what is best for the patient. Talent? We attract talented people because they are attracted to our culture and buy in. We spend a lot of time on our top 10-20% of performers thanking them. We spend even more time with our 60-70% who need some development or that haven't fully bought in. We want them to be in that top 10-20%. Our lowest 10%, the ones who complain all the time, low performers, etc.? We spend no time with them, other than to escort them to the door. And as our culture fully integrates, we don't really have that bottom 10% issue very much. At this point they have gone on to poison other organizations, and we attract those who appreciate and buy into our way of doing things. All successful organizations require a solid culture. Including football teams. That is what McD is saying, I believe. It does not replace the need for talent or strategy, but it sets the tone whereby talent can come to the forefront and where strategies can be implemented with clarity of purpose. His idea of culture from what I see is a dedication to maximum effort, from the number one guy on the team to the practice squad. That is a sound method IMHO. Look at other successful sports franchises. Jordan won multiple titles in the NBA, so did Larry Bird, Magic. All of those guys practiced as hard if not harder than they played in games, held their teammates to that standard. Three guys among the best to ever play but they led cultures that demanded excellence. There's a reason Iverson never won anything. i am glad we have a HC with that mindset. No it does not mean they can win devoid of talent or strategy. Those claiming he said that are living in an all too common world now where everything has to be a black or white, either/or answer, when the world actually exists in greys. Does it mean he doesn't have to get more alienated guys at several positions? Of course not. But having a solid culture will ultimately help the players and the team be successful, as most any successful organization will tell you. Not alienated guys, talented guys. He'll bring in more talented guys, and the culture should allow them to thrive.

Linemen first. Build from inside out

He can't or won't. I've asked him to do so twice

My bad

Posing an either/or question on a false premise doesn't have merit.

People keep saying he wants culture over talent. He said no such thing.

I know of no successful organizations that do not have a successful culture. When he says culture trumps strategy it means you can have the best plays called, best coaching, etc. but if guys aren't committed to work and improvement it won't mean much. I note some here saying he does not want talent. That is nowhere to be found in his statement. His and Beane's jobs are to bring talent in and mold it into a successful team. But if the talent is not part of a broader success mindset and culture the talent will not be as successful as it should be.

Facts are difficult things for some. Like blaming Beane for Woods leaving in free agency when he wasn't even here. i continue to say this: McD and Beane have a plan and I will judge their success or failure on how they carry out their plan. They picked their QB and next year can bring in a tonbofbguys. If they picked the right QB and get the right guys they'll succeed. If not then they'll be looking for work. As it should be. hardly "glowingly positive". Not now. When you jump back on in a year. And we'll welcome you back.

And I'm sure you'll jump right back on the bandwagon when they play better, right?

Good. You do that then. I'll watch the game. Hope you don't mind.

To the OP: I am 62 years old, and sat at the Rockpile opening day 1960. So I have seen the ups and downs just as you have. The difference between you and I is to seem to actually want to wallow in misery, and I don't. You continually and mistakenly lump together the current regime and the past regimes. Your take on the Pegulas not caring about winning and just about money is over the top and just stale by now. If you're miserable about the team, then don't root for them. But rather than do that, you seem to have made it your mission to try and bring other fans down to your level. I do not now nor will I ever understand that mentality. As for your parents doing you a disservice, I am glad my dad took me to that first game. It has given me the opportunity to root for my hometown team for 58 years now. And I have a 23 year old daughter, not born in WNY, who I have raised as a Bills fan and she is as loyal a Bills backer as anyone I know. And I'm proud of that.

I think Teller or Boetigger replace Miller

Good question. From his pressers yesterday McD might be asking Daboll the same type questions.

Sure. I'll bet you're pretty smart. I've done pretty good academically myself. I think we could look at film and figure it out. But in a stadium with 50,000 hostile fans screaming? Large mean guys wanting to tear your head off a couple yards in front of you? Moving around all over to try and confuse you? And about 20-30 seconds to figure out blocking, etc. and know exactly where to go with the ball? Maybe not.

Steve Young says reading defenses is the biggest change guys go through coming into the pros. I think I'll go with his thoughts on it

Quote from Polian before the draft: Here’s what ESPN’s Hall of Fame GM Bill Polian says about most college QBs, who work out of the spread: “They don’t talk at the college level; the quarterback doesn’t talk. He doesn’t call a play, he doesn’t call a snap count, he doesn’t call a formation, very few audibles. They don’t use their voices. Everything’s done by symbol and cards in the spread.” If I’m a GM, I don’t move on one high, but I’m not a GM. I’m not desperate. But desperation is what it’s come down to, because teams aren’t winning Super Bowls anymore without a decent one. And, under the new CBA, rookie salaries are limited, so teams aren’t throwing $40 million at them. I wouldn’t have taken a Mitch Trubisky, Patrick Mahomes or Deshaun Watson high in the draft, but it’s hard to blame teams for taking a shot. If they screw up, it’s not as punishing financially or on the field as it used to be.