OldTimer1960

What I am saying, is if they are eyeing a QB at 22, and IF the Pats also want a QB, then it would be possible for the Pats to jump ahead of the Bills and take the QB. If you are saying that all 8 QBs are roughly equivalent or that there is the "big 4" then a tier of Rudolph and Jackson and then 2-3 other 3rd tier QBs - all QBs roughly equal in their tier, then I would be surprised if any given team thinks that. For argument's sake, say that the Bills think highly of Rudolph and are shut out of the top 4, they might be perfectly happy to sit at 22 at take Rudolph. However, now with the Pats sitting at 23, it would be an easy trade up to get in front of the Bills. Of course, this assumes that the Pats are 1) in the market for a QB and 2) like the same guy the Bills do. But to point 2, once you get past the big 4, there are only Rudolph, Jackson, Lauletta and White that could conceivably be considered at 22.

The Rams had a very solid defense and a good deal more talent overall when they traded up for Goff than the Bills currently have. Even with the ability to add some players in FA next year, it will hurt if they are missing their 1st pick next year due to a big trade up this year. i would be very surprised if Beane's master plan is to load up on FAs next year eating up all the cap room he just cleared this year. Yes, I think they will sign some FAs, but I wouldn't expect them to spend like drunken sailors.

Pats now have 2 firsts and 2 seconds: 23, 31, 43, 63. It is not as much as the Bills, but it isn't so far behind that they can't cause the Bills some trouble. I don't think he does either.

Absolutely true, but many here have over-valued the Bills' draft "capital" - other teams have near as much and *might* drive the cost of a QB to ridiculous levels that a team can never recover from.

If Pats want a QB ahead of 22, they certainly have the ammo to move ahead of Bills if they are willing to get into a bidding war.

Until this deal, it was at least plausible to think the Bills could nab a great non-QB prospect at 12 and then come back at 22 or a bit earlier to get a 2nd tier QB in Rudolph, Jackson - possibly including White and Lauletta. Now that door has been essentially shut.

The Patriots threat - it is real and a at least will force the Bills into taking a QB no later than 12 or they will be shut out of even the 2nd tier QBs. I like what McDermott and Beane are doing, but I think that they have been out maneuvered by both the Jets and Pats. Pats might not move ahead of them, but they have removed the possibility of taking a position player at 12 and hoping to get a QB at 22, let alone hoping to get a QB In round 2.

If they miss without giving up multiple years of draft picks, your statement is true. However, if they trade 12, 22, 53 and next year’s first to move up and select one, then I think that is a recipe for regret. I will say, go ahead and trade 12 & 22 to move up - that is the fruit from trading back with KC last year. Beyond that, I sincerely hope that they have a STRONG conviction about the guy that they are trading up for - lots of room for error giving up more than the Bills’ 1st round picks.

Completely agree. I could see trading 12 & 22 and maybe 53 to move up. I would have to think VERY hard before I'd give up more, but it depends who is left aft pick 3 - I can't see any way to get to 2 without depleting too many picks for a team desperately in need of new talent at some key positions including LB and WR.

Both Philly and especially the Rams had much more talent already on hand before those big trades for Wentz and Goff. Neither of those QBs would have had that level of success without support

I am only saying that his arm is weaker than Rosen's, Allen's and Darnold's, but I don't believe that equates to "dish rag arm". At least in my opinion, his arm is not too weak, just not as strong as those 3 have. Rosen and Allen have *some* experience under center, but I think both played plenty from the shotgun. I am not campaigning to draft Mason Rudolph, but I do think he is a better prospect than some here think he is. Who is right, of course, will only known in 2-3 years. I would not be surprised if Rudolph is picked in round one or early round 2.

SO many experts that know Rudolph is no good. I think That there is a very reasonable chance that he will be better than at least 2 of the “top 4”

I’m aligned.

Watch out, you are in heresy territory with that post. Some here know that he sucks because a few draft guides say that he is a borderline 1st/2nd round player. Some of those posters only want the (VERY RARE) QB savior, who single-handedly carries a team to victory regardless of the defense or offensive weapons he has to work with. Why do you think that Rudolph is inferior to those anointed prospects? If it is only arm strength, please explain Brees, Brady and Montana as great QBs with less-than-elite arm strength. If if your argument is that Rudolph has little experience under center, same applies to the top prospects as well. Further, if you are looking for a transcendent talent to carry the team, who among the top tier did that? I submit that is indeed a very rare ability and therefore not one that you make the basis of your team building process.

Very nice post and I agree with the majority of it. I realize that it is a gray area, but I’d put Flacco on Dalton’s level or vice-versa. Both give a team a chance at success, but neither(nor the tier above) can single-handedly carry a weak team to playoff success. i think that many herethink that getting a QB high in this draft somehow guarantees that the team will magically compete for the Super Bowl every year even if the supporting group is poor. I think that there is a very low probability of that happening.

In his first TWO seasons, Eric Moulds had a COMBINED 49 catches and 2 TDS. In year 3, he had 67 catches and 9 TDs. Of course, thT doesn’t mean that everyone will excel in their third year, but it does suggest that it is not prudent to give up on a guy after his rookie year. Sorry, I didn’t see your post and posted the same later. Too many are WAY too willing to trash a guy after one season.

Yes

I don’t think this team is a likely playoff contender with even a top rookie at QB. They have several holes on defense, a BIG hole at WR and many lesser holes.

Is 4 or 6 worth 12 & 22 & a 2nd this year or maybe more? None of the QBs available scream future HOFer, but 5 have at least a very small chance at that. IF the Bills have a strong conviction about one or two of these QBs, then by all means try to move up. Still, unlikely to be able to make that happen. If not, I think let the draft play out through pick 5. If someone they are very high on lasts to pick 6, be willing to trade up to both 12 & 22 for him. Otherwise, sit tight at 12 - pick whomever is left (Alle, Mayfield, Rudolph) or another position and regroup to find a QB @ 22 or trade up - or in 2nd round, but know that you will have to move up in round 2 to secure White, Lauletta or Falk...

I agree. I am not a trained scout, but watching his game cut-ups, I think he is a quality prospect. I would rather have Rosen, Darnold or Mayfield, but I'm not sure I would take Josh Allen over him. Allen surely has more upside with his arm strength and better movement skills, but I think Rudolph has a pretty good chance to be a good NFL starting QB if he is given a good supporting cast. I understand Rudolph's arm isn't as strong as some of the other prospects, but it still is adequate and he seems capable of "making all the throws". I don't buy the knocks about not working under center, because that is mostly true of the other prospects as well and A LOT of NFL plays are run from the gun. For sure, the Big-12 defenses are not the best, but Mayfield played there as well and the PAC-10 isn't exactly known as a conference that plays a lot of D either.

Or they could go full-rebuild and trade Manning or “gently” encourage him to retire then draft a QB. If I were a Giants fan, I would definitely want them to take a QB at 2, even if he has to sit behind Eli for up to two years.

We are in agreement. Cleveland is sitting VERY pretty as it is going into this draft. They have a very good chance to get a good or better starting QB and to get another excellent prospect at another position at pick 4. That is before we even see that they have the first and 4th or 5th picks in round 2. They have 4 of the first 35 picks in the draft and they already had some good defensive talent on that team. If they are patient with the QB they draft and let Taylor play until the rookie is ready (perhaps all year), they could be set for quite some time. The flip-side of this is exactly why I would not like to see the Bills trade too much to move up for a QB. I could be on-board with trading 12 and 22, but I wouldn't really like to give up any picks next year and would ideally like to hold 53, 56 and 65 as well. If the *right* guy (in the Bills' minds) is there, I could see giving up 12, 22, and 53. I think the price is going to be too steep for my blood to get into the top 4, so I'd be content to sit and wait to see how the top 5 plays out then decide if a move up to 6 or so is worth it for whomever is left. Like most, I don't know who among Mayfield, Rosen, Darnold, Allen, Jackson will be any good, heck I have a feeling that someone like Rudolph, Lauletta or White will end up being better than at least 1 of the "top" group.

Maybe I am missing the point, but are you saying that you think that Darnold will be a good starting QB, but he won't help Cleveland much by just being good? Are you saying that only a HOF-level QB can really help a team, unless the team is stacked around a lesser QB? If yes, then I agree that you need more than a good QB. You need talent around almost any QB to succeed. Can an all-time great like Brady, Rodgers, Brees, Montana lift the players around him to heights that they couldn't achieve otherwise? Yes, but those all-time great QBs are VERY rare. To make a team building plan dependent on getting an all-time great HOF QB is not very realistic. Sure, you can *hope* that you find an all-time great, but you need to have a plan to succeed with a merely good QB.

I think think that there is much more to playing QB in the NFL than who has the most physical tools. Leadership, drive, preparation and ability to quickly process what you see are as important (maybe more important) in my mind. Looking at some of the all time greats: Montana, Brady, Manning - none of them had the strongest arms or were the most physically talented.

It is very easy for me to believe that a young QBcould be ruined. If he is getting pummeled with no chance to get passes off to receivers who haven’t had time to run their routes - that would seem like it could lead to injuries, poor decisions, poor mechanics and destroyed confidence.