BADOLBILZ

It matters because when put in context.........they scored the 33rd all-time most points per game in the 5th highest scoring year ever........what that tells you is that it was NOT a historic offensive season. Not even the Bills best offense ever when you consider the point differential versus league average. That was the 1975 Bills. Your point about the Bills scoring the most points in the AFC playoffs doesn't account for the fact that they were the only team that played 3 games. I mean you can't even pick a lane. And after insisting your stats....err "facts".......were definitive proof that poor defense deserves all the blame for the team not advancing to a SB then you suddenly are asking for subjectivity on your facts. 😂

Shame on you @Mikey152 for fake-claiming a lie from Kirby. Brandon Beane himself has literally bragged about scoring 7 more points per game with Cooper as a defense for trading the 3rd round pick.

You said one thing.........said that you said another thing altogether because it didn't track........and now you are trying to meld them together in a form that doesn't account for the difference in games played in the last 4 seasons compared to the 16 and 14 game seasons post merger. It's comically shystie and further undermines your greatly exaggerated takes. 3 of the top 5 scoring seasons(per game) since the merger have been since 2020. The Bills have ranked very near the top in scoring in 2 of those years. They had a great 8 game run. If they hadn't struggled in Baltimore, Houston and NY because of bad WR play they might have been closer to the Lions. And those defense's weren't even playing that well at the time. Baltimore was near the bottom in pass defense at the time. Receiving talent on offense and pass rushers on defense have been the biggest shortcomings. It's just funny that when the defense was at the top of the league they were throwing the kitchen sink at pass rush but when the offense has the same issue.........high rank but a clear weakness........they aren't doing the same.

Dude you literally said the "16th greatest offense in NFL history" and are trying to lie now. Like I said.......the hyperbole is not necessary. They've had 2 great scoring seasons and 2 great points allowed seasons since 2020. They simply haven't been good enough on either side of the ball when it counts.

This data says the 2024 team was 33rd all time........in the 5th highest scoring per game season since the merger. https://mcubed.net/nfl/ptmpfpg.shtml Says the 2020 team was 29th........in the highest scoring season since the merger. And the 1975 Bills team is 50th. The 1975 team is actually the highest scoring relative to the league that year with 9.4 points above league average. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/NFL/scoring.htm

Well the lowest scoring 16 game schedule team on that statmuse data is 31.9 points per game............so I don't know if it's even 22nd. And everything is relative. 2024 was the 5th highest scoring ppg season since the AFL/NFL merger. If you weren't the #1 scoring team in your season don't tell me how all-time great you are. Don't need that hyperbole. They were very good. Their defense was also that good in 2021 and 2022. Point being........gotta' be that good deep into the playoffs for it to matter much historically.

Yeah you were confused. You can't compare 16 game seasons to 17 game seasons using bulk points. And since you chose points as the primary data.......it throws the ppg data off as well. Example........The 1975 Bills also scored 30 points per game(420 with an 8-6 record). They are not listed in the ppg, which falls below 30 when you get to 25th on the data you chose.

And like I said........the 2024 Bills were not the 16th best offense all time..........did you mean the 16th best "AFC" offense ever?😂

Facts? The Lions scored more points in the regular season......2.3 more per game......which is a significant difference. The Eagles scored the most points in NFL postseason history.....obviously? How were you confused that the Bills scored more? They put up 95 in the NFCCG and SB alone. So those were not facts you posted. So here are the facts: The Bills were second in the NFL in scoring last season. They were 1st in fewest points allowed in 2021 and second in 2022. Also another further clarification for things you wrote subsequently..... The 2024 Bills weren't the 16 highest scoring offense of all time. There have been at least 16 higher ppg scoring teams just since 2000. Including the 2015 Panthers that nobody remembers as an offensive juggernaut. There is no need for grand hyperbole. They have at times been a great regular season offense and a great regular season defense under McBeane. They've never been either when they've advanced beyond the divisional round in the postseason under McBeane.

The fact that you have to ask me is your problem. I can relate to those of you stuck in a state of suspended adolescence where you feel that your happiness is out of your control. Because I was a kid. But that semi-incarcerated experience is supposed to push you out of the nest. I worked hard and smart, fortune favored that, and I got everything I'll ever want at an early age. Entertainment is just entertainment to me. Being a Bills fan is a lifestyle but Bills football is just a hobby. I pay them a lot of money so I am entitled to hold them to the underlying promise that all pro sports teams make with their fans in exchange for suspending their disbelief regarding the team belonging to the community/fans. The promise that they are doing their best to win championships. Football is a highly competitive blood sport(by todays standards). That said, a SB win would only matter to me because it will be a couple more days to party. After the parade is over it's back to business as usual. No ring. No trophy. My mlb team and family school have won a combined 11 WS and NC's in football in my life. It's fun, you buy a shirt and it's something to rib other teams fans about. It doesn't materially change anything. The journey is the reward.

I'd love to see the data. I don't believe in picking individual games based on last year but as a whole I think perceived strong or weak schedules don't often result in the opposite. What HAS been very predictable for the last 25 years is the AFC East. One team is going to be good and the rest are going to be their chew toys.

2nd and 9 is worse than 13 seconds because the strategy they concocted during the timeout was inherently flawed. They had nearly executed a SB XXV level game of keep-away and lost their minds in the clutch. All the debate about kicking the ball short or into the end zone on 13 seconds only matters because they didn't execute in the final 13 seconds. 1 adequately defended defensive play and the game is over. The attempted longshot to Shakir after the two minute warning was damned if it worked AND if it didn't. Ultimately, we just aren't allowed to talk about failures that Josh Allen could be considered at all accountable for. The media and fans alike are terrified to be critical of him. And for multiple reasons. They don't want him to want to leave. And we've seen choking become habitual with the Kelly era Bills so we don't want to fracture his confidence. The truth is we feel that he is more important to the organization/community than any SB win he could generate. He's bigger than the brand. I can't really think of a similar situation in sports. Maybe Giannis with the Bucks? I don't know. The problem with being that way is you can't get to the truth if you omit what you wish you hadn't seen. My contention is that the lack of playmakers in the passing game has set him up for failure. He's personally thrown away his share of games with bad decisions late over his career. If he has Travis Kelce putting up 100 yards per game in the playoffs every year maybe he still doesn't win them all or even 3 of 5 like Mahomes. But we may never know what it would look like for him to have a guy who makes a difference playing with Allen in the playoffs.

We've been clutch???? 13 seconds was one game. It's the only one of their 6 playoff losses(or 2 divisional round wins) where Allen and the offense played well offensively at the end. They've been awful in the clutch offensively. This is what I mean about too many Bills fans being myopic on the topic.

Yeah there was still about 1:45 left when KC ran the clock out after the Bass miss the year prior too. The details are that the offense had the opportunity to burn most or all of the clock in both instances. But came up well short of the end zone and that's why KC had the ball last. They especially had the clock in hand in the January 2024 game. If Allen takes the wide open check down to Diggs on 2nd and 9 after the 2 minute warning then it's almost certainly at worst 3rd and short and KC had zero timeouts left. Instead they tried one of the great nonsensical plays in Bills history. Tried to complete a 30 air yard pass to their slot receiver which would have only served to give the ball to the most clutch QB of this era with 2 minutes left to play 4 down football. Just a brain dead decision by Brady/Allen. This past loss they were much less successful on that last drive. Not even close to a score and that's why there was enough clock left for KC to need a first down. Hell, with the pace they were moving at offensively they might have had to hurl another 30 air yard pass in the end zone as time was expiring. And that was after Buffalo failed to get 10 yards on 4 downs the drive prior. Offense just totally sh!t the bed down the stretch. Defense bailed them out after Allen couldn't tush push detectably past the line to gain with a sack of Mahomes that stopped the KC drive. But hey, you know all the details.

To the first highlighted, they didn't score on two drives of 4 down offense to lose those Chiefs games. In the imaginary world where clutch doesn't outweigh what you do in the first 50 minutes or so of a game then it only seems WORSE when you can't score when punting isn't an option and the defense is playing with their tongues hanging out. The closing minutes of a close game are where you see what people are capable of when they are fully invested. Clutch is everything because it's the only time when the vast majority of the people involved know the full consequence of not going all out in that moment. Human nature creates as many close games as a similarity in talent. Coaches coach themselves into close games, player effort/focus tends to fluctuate in the mundane moments of games. If the talent is close the game will usually be close at the end. It's why performing in the clutch earns such respect. When everyone is going 100% the best men generally make the plays and win the game. Difference makers. I do feel like they lost some ground to KC on paper. I think they finally got a LT. I think they are getting more dynamic offensively around Mahomes. Rice blew up in the second half of his rookie year and was on a 1400 yard pace when he got injured. Worthy was ascending rapidly and was great in the AFCCG and SB. Difference making talent. Baltimore got better in the draft too. They didn't have to draft for need like Buffalo, which bodes well for their result. And no, on paper our pass rush is not better. Ogunjobi and Hoecht did not have productive years rushing the passer. Von Miller was a much more efficient pass rusher than Bosa in 2024. History tells us not to expect much from second round DL talent as rookies. They got more name bodies and swapped out a seemingly washed up HOF'er for a younger but also seemingly washed up Hall of Very Good(but always injured) player. A lot has to go better this year than it did for these guys last year for it to be "much better". Not sure how you can assume it will. The secondary might be better if Max Hairston is really good. Who knows if that's the case. You have to anticipate continued decline from Taron Johnson. Tre White and Dane Jackson were trash in 2024 and fingers crossed that Benford's concussion issues at the end don't carry over because if he's not excellent again the secondary gets a lot worse. Agreed that the offense didn't get better. They had career years from Allen(decision making, protecting the ball), James Cook and the entire OL(health). It is unlikely to replicate those performances so they will need other players to step up to maintain.

Henceforth we can presume no 3rd round pick in 2026.

Oh there is doubt about that. They just haven't played well defensively(regardless of seasonal rank) and have repeatedly choked in the clutch offensively in their losses. What there is no doubt about is that they haven't had enough difference makers. McDermott and Beane even vocalized that in no uncertain terms at the end of the season. They haven't had those guys. I think some people don't want to reference that because they know that nobody they acquired projects as a difference maker based on their most recent results. This is not like the wide right Bills.......the Josh Allen Bills are falling 2-3 wins short of the prize every year. Hell the two divisional round games they won against the Ravens they were bad offensively and the defense got them thru with turnovers/big plays. It's just hard to get thru a series of really good teams in the playoffs when you don't have a Chris Jones or Travis Kelce to finish games and the opponent does.

I like it. Marino took his handle, he can take Marino's handle. Reminds me of the old days when you could log onto TSW and type any name in and start posting. Late 90's. I'd get on and see someone using my name and having conversations about birds and other sh!t that I would never be having. It was amusing because nothing they could say could be more controversial than my truthful opinions about the Bills. Like the impending salary cap disaster that the majority of the board insisted I was wrong about. TSW @Joe Marino should adopt some controversial takes!

Yep if you Billieve so strongly in the Bills WR's why are you even in the thread? When I see a topic I think is BS or don't have an opinion on I don't even think of opening it. I don't go in just to exclaim that fans are just so negative or imply that there is an ulterior motive for their opinion outside of wanting a better football product put on the field. 😂 It's just idiotic. Our all time homer/fan-shamer on TSW really exposed it all one time when he drunk posted from a bar whining pathetically about why do the Bills hurt him so much? What did he do to deserve this? Then he sobered up and went right back to bashing fans for having any expectations. They can't put the failure on the organization. That would be treason. They can't process that it's ultimately just a product created by a multi-billion dollar entertainment industry. Instead they turn their frustration on the fans.

What I think you discount is the importance of being clutch on offense. Allen and the offense have choked in the clutch with victory in sight in 3 of 4 chances against Houston and KC. I really couldn't care less about counting points allowed against the Chiefs anymore. The games were eminently winnable. Bills fans are just myopic on the topic. The Kansas City defense averages allowing just over 30 points per game in the SB with Mahomes. But has won 3 of 5 because they've produced in the clutch offensively. Tyreek came up huge the first one. Kelce has been surreal in the clutch over and over. His playoff numbers are unreal. Worthy tore the Bills up in the AFCCG. Meanwhile........Allen has had the vanishing choke artist Diggs and a bunch of forgettable nobodies. The one game where Allen looked clutch at the end was when a receiver put up a 200 yard game.

They also had the ball at the end with a chance to salt away the Chiefs in the last two playoff losses and Allen and the offense face planted epically. Haven't had the necessary amount of playmakers on either side of the ball and the Chiefs and Bengals did.........and that's the story of the 5 straight AFC playoff losses to end their season since Allens' breakout season in 2020. Based on the most recent production from the player's they've added.........that hasn't changed. There is more reason for optimism that Lamar is due for another high ankle sprain that ruins his season and/or that the Chiefs are just weary from 7 straight very deep playoff runs than there is that Bosa and Ogunjobi will return to form or Josh Palmer or Keon Coleman will become a WR1. There has been a lot of fellating of the Eagles by people who couldn't have named 5 players on the team 4 months ago..........but they had their biggest competitors(Detroit and SF) decimated by injury giving them a pretty easy run to the SB. Beane appears to have lost ground to KC and Baltimore on paper this offseason but it's a long season.

Of course, but most teams implies that there are 32 relevant to the discussion. There aren't. I know that's why you lead with Philly last offseason but the Bills have more question marks at the premium, highest valued positions than Philly, KC, Baltimore, Detroit and Green Bay. Most of the crowded next tier down has more difference makers at premium positions as well.

Ohhh I see. And just how many SB wins has that optimism been rewarded with. 😂 Because that's what we are talking about here. There is a reason you can't keep it on topic.

Obviously Howie is in another league at evaluating talent than our boy Beane though. Maybe a tier above anyone for that matter. Beane has had just one free agent hit in his now 6 prior offseasons as Bills GM. Daryl Williams.......who had been an All Pro prior. Miller might have made it if not for injury but still when you sign an old timer you gotta' get the credit when he is a bust. After Williams it's JAG's like Rapp, Edwards and Hollins at the top of his success list. Meanwhile, the list of DL free agent busts and overpays is LONG so while we can HOPE.......that complete lack of success colors the outlook for Bosa and Ogunjobi. Beane hasn't found a diamond in the rough or a reclamation draft pick that's panned out big. Certainly not like Baun or Becton. They were stars last year. You gotta' go back to Whaley getting Lorax, Brown, and Tyrod to see any Pro Bowl quality production for such small investments. But the primary difference between what Roseman and Beane do is that Howie has filled his premium positions with premium talent. I mean, give me perennial 78 ypg WR1(Brown) and 64 ypg WR2(Smith) and I am good with spending the WR3 money on Saquon Barkley. Give me a group who can put up 70 sacks and I am good with drafting a nose tackle in round 1. Howie has just been SO good at talent procurement that he doesn't need a road map like Beane. And Howie tends to make his moves on his terms. Beane always seems to be chasing and overpaying in free agency or trade.