BADOLBILZ

Yeah that's what happens when you don't play anywhere near well enough to be on the field. The Bills had big plans for Moulds in 1996. They were desperate for a big play threat. But he sat because he was a hot mess on and off the field.

FWIW: Keyshawn Johnson, Terry Glenn, Harrison and Eddie Kennison ALL had 800-1100 yard rookie seasons in 1996. Moulds was the lone first rounder who didn't come out firing.

I didn't factor it out. I used NFL offensive stats rankings because the point is the they are LITERALLY passing for less yardage than they had been in prior years, relative to the rest of the league. How much one thinks that reflects on the WR corps is one thing........there are plenty of other stats/metrics that indicate the Bills WR corps was/is not good.....they've been re-hashed many times. Apparently the subject of passing for less yardage has struck a nerve with a few of you though. But Bills fans who watch the team every week giving the WR corps.......of all groups.........credit for Allen avoiding sacks would be the dumbest take of a long offseason of them. The one group that never even pass blocks. I hope you guys are just arguing for the sake of arguing because it's the height of foolishness.😂

Thank you @Doc Brown for explaining it to @Richard Noggin. The FACT is that they aren't generating the yardage thru the air that they should be with one of the top 3 QB's in the NFL. The rankings I gave you are all prior to removing sack yardage. Are you under the impression that the Bills receivers are why Allen is avoiding sacks? Because they aren't. The Bills signature passing play is Allen going thru all of his reads, not being satisfied with the choices, and then scrambling right and throwing the ball on the run about 5+ seconds after the snap. Being able to play off schedule like that is a blessing but it's not a great long term strategy. And as Allen approaches 30 you want to see LESS of those plays each year. Instead, we see MORE. All of Allen's biggest hits taken in 2024 were on those plays. Ravens concussion, Texans concussion and huge hits against Rams and Lions.

Shakir being "a dawg" is a measure of feels not proof that he is going to be a huge producer. He is a very good slot-only receiver. I assume he will be good for 800-900 yards again if he can continue to withstand the punishment he takes. 900 is not a lot for a team's top target though and anything more than 900 is more than he has done so there would be uncertainty that. The Bills passing game production last year was pretty low. Regarding Coleman/Worthy.......like I said, the way you judge hyped rookie WR is how they progress in year one. Very often, the stars take off in the second half of the season. Worthy did very little the first 9 games and then averaged 56 per game from then on. That's a 950 yard pace and he averaged 95 in his 3 playoff games. He was trending as expected. Coleman's season was trending up around mid-season but he finished VERY poorly. If you want to talk about "less uncertainty" then you talk facts not feels. The 2024 Bills were 17th in passing yards. The 2023 Bills were 10th. 2022 they were 9th but only played 16 games due to the Damar game. 2020 they were 3rd. Say what you want about the offense but the passing game has been trending the wrong way for quite a while as the WR corps has declined. The offense has remained productive statistically but at the end of the season when they've needed guys to make plays in big games.......like an AFCCG or SB where Worthy went off.........the Bills haven't had that guy and Allen has been left to play hero ball and fall short.

I'm not sure there is a lot less unknown factor this year? We thought we knew what Samuel was. He wasn't that. There was more hype about Coleman from the Bills than any Bills rookie since Allen. Some of that specialty merchandise they made to cash in on the hype is still on the shelf at Wegmans and stores in the mall. The unknown with Coleman, as it is with many hyped rookie WR, was would he be WR1 by the end of the season or not. He wasn't. He was struggling mightily while a guy like Worthy was blowing up at the end of the year. So there is a lot of unknown where he goes from there. I still like his potential but there should be no feeling of certainty there. Ultimately the mistake though is thinking that the aggregate of 5 receivers even matters all that much when judging the group as a whole. It's a matchup league. How do the players on the field matchup with the opponents defenders. If your 5th WR is better than another contenders 5th CB that only matters if that is the matchup. It's nice to have depth but much more important to have better players in your starting lineup.

The 2023 WR group was bad. And some of us were aware that was going to be the case heading into the season. Others were irrationally overconfident in guys like Sherfield and Harty and are like that every year in thinking guys will just be better because of Josh Allen. Allen and Diggs were producing at a high level early in 2023 but that was basically IT for positive WR play until mid-season. As teams got tape on the 2023 version of the Bills it became evident that the Bills passing offense was "chuck it to Diggs or Allen should run". So they began to adapt the passing offense to decentuate their feeble 2023 WR corps. Dorsey began it against Tampa and then after McDermott blew the Denver game by not keeping his defense on the field for the FG they handed the keys to Brady who began running the ball more and using designed runs for Allen that they had been strategically AVOIDING for the prior two years(over 9 carries per game under Brady in 2023). The Bills WR corps has gradually declined each season since 2020. They reached the point early in 2024 where they were so bad that there weren't many teams that had worse. Whether they are better than their 2023 or post-Cooper 2024 groups probably only matters if they get HUGE improvement from Coleman and both Palmer and Samuel play better than their 2024 seasons. They need to be much better than the 2023 group.

I didn't see where they said they were "their"(CBS) games. I think that's what some may think you are saying. They just listed the top likely matchups and said they could be on any of the broadcast partners.

The Bills 1975 offense is still the greatest Bills scoring offense. It has to be judged relative to the league scoring average at the time.

Beane colors his stories to accentuate his positives. I understand that some of you can't see that but that's because he's good at it. I've said it since he got here, he isn't much of a scout but he is a GREAT executive. And that's what the Pegula's needed more than anything back in 2017. But consider the simple fact that it's 2025 and he had to go on WGR and say "it's 2018 all over again with you guys". Because he hasn't drafted a single difference maker since then. With all due respect to Ed Oliver and Greg Rousseau they aren't in that category. Cook is a RB so you aren't necessarily even going to see him on the field on 3rd and long with the game on the line(as we saw in the AFCCG). They don't have a 2-4 man core of difference makers like most championship contenders.......as McDermott lamented at seasons end.

I would say feeling "great" about a player is the equivalent of feeling 'sure' so that's splitting hairs. The Cordy Glenn trade up was a heist. Moving up 11 spots using a solid veteran with one kidney seemed like a George Allen trade from the 1970's when college player evaluation was much less scientific. Getting a pick at the top of the 3rd round for Tyrod Taylor as well. Getting up to 7 was a relatively easy move. 7 shouldn't have gotten it done though. Allen was the type of high ceiling QB who goes #1 overall more years than not. Warts and all. It took an astonishingly stupid move by John Elway and Denver to allow Allen to fall there. I had followed Allen's season and it was no secret that Elway was personally scouting him. There was a lot more luck involved than brilliance in getting him at 7. But Beane has my eternal gratitude because he actually did what I had been imploring Bills GM's to do forever. Pick a QB with that very first pick and run with it. The argument about whether it would have been worth the cost to move up more if it meant more premium picks should be in perspective when it comes to the QB position. The people who seem to over-value those picks the most are the people who follow the draft casually. Which is the majority of fans/media. I know for a FACT that a 1st round pick is the most overrated personnel chip a team has. Casual followers just have short memories about the picks. Not having #1 picks is not certain disaster. The McBeane Bills have overcome a ton of very disappointing 1st and 2nd round picks. Those misses aren't why they haven't won a SB.

We saw that with the original Bills Embedded. The lead-up to the Cody Ford pick was disgusting if you believed in either the concepts of BPA or premium positions. "We need a right tackle". It was gross. I've generally liked Beane's drafting compared to all other prior Bills GM's. Terrible second round drafting has been a Bills tradition so his struggles there are nothing news. And I really appreciate how he manipulates the fan base and media. He's doing it here in this clip. If they were so sure Allen would be great they would have done one of these crazy trades like we saw with Cleveland and Jacksonville this spring. They liked Allen a lot but they would have just picked a different QB. It's their MO, they draft for need more often than not. I had presumed most of that draft season that they would end up with Lamar Jackson just because he would be the only one of the top prospects left at 11 and was underrated as a passer, IMO.

Actually..... As I have to periodically remind people(much to the chagrin of his biggest fans), Eric Moulds WAS absolutely trashed on the predecessor to TBD which was the Rochester D&C's Hyperbills. And on WGR and in other forms of media. Of course, if it was NOW, he would have been banned from the NFL before he ever had a chance to break out after picking a girl off the ground by the neck and slamming her against the wall and choking her on the Buffalo State campus. He kept the Bills legal representation busy those first couple years with his lady issues(and he's still spreading the love apparently😂). There was a lot more leeway on criminal behavior back then. Moulds was such a sh!tcloud of failed performance and criminality that it was simply presumed heading into camp in 1998 that he would be cut. It was a remarkable turn of events when he had that incredible season.

Yeah the middle of the field is a club section now. The people criticizing the seats and the room in front of them clearly haven't been to a game in a while. There is way less space in the hole that Ralph dug. They'd have a panic attack.

No the purpose of less seats was just to make the product more exclusive.

Well, actually, yes Herbert literally had more yards passing per game than Allen. He and Allen had the same yards per attempt on the season and Herbert had more yards because he completed a higher % of his passes than Allen did.

I looked at the numbers. You are the one who was clueless about them and thought it was a pass crippled Greg Roman offense. And like I had to explain to you........their QB was more efficient as a passer and passed for more yards than Allen. They deemed Palmer the 3rd best option. You don't have a point.

Yep. It can be a headache if you take it at all seriously. CBiscuit used to have the same totally irrational persona. Logic had an illogical persona. They eventually seemed to realize that sports isn't as complicated as they had thought. We don't need Neil DeGrasse Tyson to explain to us how there is no "now" in sports so we can draw abstract conclusions. Just compare apples to apples, please. 🍎

@Alphadawg7 digs in on things and ends up having to spiral into totally indefensible, illogical places to defend his takes. It starts with him not owning up to an error or falsehood that he posted and then proceeds to saying insane things and finishing everything with a peace-out hoping you won't call him on it. And he will keep replying trying to get the last word even if it means finishing 10 posts with peace outs. Honestly it gets hilarious if you know enough not to take it seriously. I give him credit for persistence but he really should take the gaslighting and denial of facts to the political arena. Most of us are here because we are trying to avoid that kind of crap. 😂 This current WR corps has a poor long term track record, it has a poor recent track record. But we were having this same argument with the same people last year who were saying MVS and Claypool were going to re-discover themselves. There isn't a lot of proof of concept with these players like there was with that 2023 room with Diggs and Davis coming off putting up 2K yards. And even then it was obvious they weren't doing enough at the position.

There is a lot more to being a great QB than just passing the ball. Allen won the MVP largely because it was perceived that he won in spite of a lack of talent around him. Herbert is a tremendous passer but his deficiencies show up in the win column not in the passing stats columns. You showed your ignorance of the situation when you presumed that Palmer didn't have at least equal opportunity to perform in the passing game in LA. Just do a little research so you aren't posting bogus trash. The Chargers play at least 8-10 games indoors every season and Herbert consistently throws for more yards per game than Allen. Truth.

It's going to be hard to avoid turnovers anywhere close to that again. Allen literally fumbled and lost it on the first offensive series of the season versus Arizona and then the turnovers just didn't happen anymore. What IS aligning for them being able to thrive is their tremendously easy looking schedule. Per Sharp analysis 5th easiest in the NFL. The problem is winning in the playoffs though. They've sort of become the Marty Schottenheimer Chiefs in the playoffs. But that's just how pedestrian their offensive weapons have been in the playoffs/clutch.

You are doing exactly as I described. Moving the target to wherever you think the arrow landed. But you are in good company. Beane and McDermott have done this plenty of times as well.

Herbert threw for more yards, had a higher completion %, a lower INT% and a higher passer rating than Josh Allen did last year. For his career, which includes 4 years with Josh Palmer, Herbert throws for 30+ more yards per game than Allen. And Josh Palmer has played 9 or more games per year in a dome environment. What you call "thinking" is your feels.

We grade the level of discourse on TSW by how late in the offseason the thinking is. By June people start thinking Trent Edwards will go from unplayable to being capable of running a no-huddle offense. Or that Tavon Austin's comeback is actually going to work! The insanity used to rationalize how perceived issues don't exist gets CRAZY. If you don't know EXACTLY what the problems are after watching the team play 20 games.....when how things actually work on the field in the NFL is fresh in your mind....... then you just aren't seeing the game.

Pretty clear? It's hindsight versus hope. We can look at 2023 in hindsight. 2025 we can only go off what we've seen recently from these guys. Which ain't much by comparison to that group at this time in 2023. There isn't anyone in the 2025 room who is expected to be even remotely as good as Diggs was at this time in 2023 coming off a monster season. Or even Davis who had fallen short of the Pro Bowl expectations put on him by guys like Emmanuel Sanders but was still coming off 836 with 7 TD's and over 17 yards per catch! TSW WR room apologists were all jacked up that Shakir was going to be the next Stefon Diggs. And because Sherfield was told by his WR coach in SF that he was better than Brandon Aiyuk. And that Harty was going turn his 500 yard 15.8 yard per catch 2021 into a monster season, like just a fluke injury in 2022 had held him back. I mean all that hype turned into a load of horsesh!t. Every one of the vets fell short of their expected performance and Shakir was just a bit part with some unexpected dropsies. There is no guarantee this group will be any better so claiming a W versus a group that projected much higher at the time than this group is reaching.