BADOLBILZ

"We all" was mostly from the Carolina end. When your team is the one stealing information it's considerably less of an issue from your perspective. See Bills fans fixation on perceived Belichick-era Pats cheating against Buffalo. Anything Buffalo Bills complaint related was a non-issue to NE fans for almost 20 years let alone the period where an employee of theirs was believed to have recorded other teams signals. We technically never had any proof whatsoever that the Patriots used any information they stole against the Bills. So I guess they didn't. Right? There are always going to be those who will disbelieve the obvious despite a mountain of circumstantial evidence. You don't think McDermott used Carolina draft intel that was shared with him and you believe that Beane was totally unaware that he would be the Bills GM for those 4 months. That's yours to believe. Personally, if I thought I might be getting the job with my hometown team to work with people I know I would probably hold out for that job rather than join a team that just executed about 40(?) free agent acquisitions/draft picks/UDFA's/futures signings etc.. that I didn't have any input on in the previous 4+ months. The first season on my record I had little to even do with the roster construction. What's not to like about that? But if the glove doesn't fit.....Chans must acquit.

Radim. Gradim. Elevadim. Tradim.

If you don't believe what was at the time common knowledge then feel free to research it. Those in their organization felt the Bills had inside information to know when to trade in front of them. DURING the draft. It was a larger point of discussion in Carolina. To quote @HappyDays at the time: "Things have really changed since McDermott took over. The guys we traded up for didn't visit with us here. They aren't from schools we usually draft from. They supposedly were on Carolina's board and their assistant GM is supposedly coming here. Sounds to me like we threw out the scouting reports our team had and went with what Beane and McDermott knew from their time in Carolina. This is absolutely nuts that this is happening." It was very un-Billsy to be the pointed end of screwing.

And the other 2 were one person.

Beane telling PFF the Panthers weren't going to pay for content because he didn't like a "free agency player grade" does NOT track well with the notion that teams don't place any value on "player grades". It's always been a fools argument that modern GM's wouldn't find some value in that data. If society didn't value information just because there was "subjectivity and assumed knowledge" baked into the results then why would we value any profession that "practices"?

I didn't know anything about it until after the Panthers complained about it.........so no I didn't create the accusation. What do you suppose the consequence would be for, say, a leaked text or email of the Panthers draft board sent by Beane to McDermott prior to the draft? There is your answer on why we don't have proof and likely never will. And why wouldn't the Panthers really push the issue? Well given what we now know about Jerry Richardson's organization it's very likely that McBeane knew enough that the Panthers didn't have an appetite to get in a pissing match with them over a lil' draft intel that might have cost them a terrible WR and what looked like a good young guard prospect.

I never said Beane had taken over as Panthers GM at that time. You are misconstruing what Monson said in not clarifying that Beane was not the actual GM at the time of the Kalil signing. Hurney succeeded Gettleman. My timeline was wrong on WHEN Hurney took over and DG's cancer diagnosis and that having anything to do with his departure as GM though, that is correct. What Beane's responsibilities were was is what I knew and cared about knowing. And I had gotten that info from someone I've known for most of my life who was in a similar football executive role who knew Beane in Carolina. Beane was a very important person in the Panthers front office at the time because Gettleman didn't want to handle the non-football GM responsibilities. Those duties were becoming an increasingly larger part of the workload. Very similar to the Whaley situation in Buffalo.......except the Panthers owner was a true football man.......a literal former player who had been there at the teams inception. Beane was a great fit because the Pegula's were lost on how to run an NFL team with a road scout as GM. They had literally lived in Orchard Park during the 90's SB's and yet the first time they even attended a Bills game was AFTER they bought the team. To say they were NFL novices is an understatement and their early tenure was their first real embarrassment as sport owners. They were tanking to get superstars in hockey and that was a very popular approach so they hadn't yet earned the ire they now own on the hockey end. Their embarrassment and uncertainty on the football side created the environment for McBeane to take full control of the Bills.

It was common knowledge here at the time that the Panthers believed that. Do you really not recall that? The whole thing caught Bills fans and the Buffalo media by surprise. It wasn't a Buffalo generated narrative but pretty damn obvious, pretty damn quick in hindsight. You gotta' remember the context here was the Bills being Billsy. The idea that they would keep Whaley around for a year or two even if he didn't seem to mesh with McDermott was entirely plausible. That had been the case with the two prior HC's Whaley worked with. The sham McBeane pulled off was actually very clever. Get the intel you want from the scouts you trust. That was the only way they get the finished board and evaluations. Like I said.........the flaw was McD allowing KC to trade up for a QB in your spot. It's likely blocked them from reaching 2-4 SB's.

Yeah @GunnerBill answered that. The Panthers realized after the draft that the Bills had their draft board and that McDermott was using it like his own. Which meant he had a good idea when he needed to move up ahead of them to get those players for he and Beane's operation.

Is that a question? If not, I agree with the sentiment. The league has a process for interviews. Whaley had to be terminated before formal interviews could commence. Hence the timing being AFTER Whaley was fired........following the draft. It was an exhaustive 4 man interview search. The minority candidate to satisfy the RR (Trey Brown). Beane.........who had the job locked up. And the two personnel guys they hoped they could get to head up scouting for Beane......... pro personnel(Brian Gaine) and college scouting(Brian Gutekunst). They got Gaine on the dotted line a week after Beane got the job. Gutekunst was part of that Green Bay college scouting department which picked a defensive player in round 1 like 13 out of 14 drafts or something like that.........so it's easy to see the attraction there.

I'm curious why you think the interview process supports a different conclusion than what Carolina believed.

Yeah, for instance, I consider not divulging to his former employer that he was taking the Bills GM job and pilfering their scouting info as equating to lying to them. Either way.......it was extremely underhanded. Especially to the hometown organization that gave him the opportunity etc.. Shows that Beane will do practically anything to get what he wants. That runs contrary to image he's cultivated as a straight shooting good-guy. Which is kind of the point of Monson's story. And the local media has coddled him. But in Buffalo now if you don't coddle the organizations you risk having your access restricted. So we will never see the broad range of coverage from the local media that we saw in the 1980's and 1990's again.

Yeah I think those run-ins are probably the tip of the iceberg with Beane behind the scenes though. He's a shyster so I never had any doubt that he would attack media or make threats behind the scenes. The people who think he's just an ordinary "aw shucks" guy like he generally tries to portray himself as are the one's who he's puppeted. If his personnel work catches up with his skill in lying and manipulating he will get up there with Howie as a top GM. Hopefully that can coincide with Allen still being in his prime.

That's life on social media though. So more like apples and oranges than similar. Though I wouldn't doubt that someday some PFF dude might get hired as a high ranking personnel man. Millen and Mayock got hired as GM's from the booth at a time when that seemed impossible. Beane himself went from fetching coffee to basically handling anything tech related in Carolina to becoming the GM in Buffalo. He kinda' bypassed the whole road scout thing and might have been the only one in the office who was even using PFF data. Imagine telling an office of old school guys that this data is important so you gotta' pay for it and then getting a sh!t grade from the company on a free agent signing. Gettleman was old school road scout and went to the Giants without Beane and was famously roiled by the media for not having "computer" people or having any analytics department.

He was very complimentary of Beane and said he had a point about the results he had gotten. He just took advantage of Beane exposing himself to say something that otherwise wouldn't have carried any weight if Beane hadn't shown his thin skin on WGR. But PFF has always really been about big picture grading. Beane's roster grades well there. #1 in the NFL scoring and #1 in fewest points allowed from 2020-2024. The Bills issues have been grossly underperforming in the divisional and championship rounds. That's a matter of not matching up with the other actual SB contenders in the AFC. Just not enough difference makers.

Yeah the Panthers were caught off guard when Beane left. Took it for granted that the local guy would hang around until they were ready to give him the job. That whole offseason with Beane hanging around Carolina until after the draft........even though he knew he was going to be the Bills GM......was very shystie. If McDermott had done literally ANYTHING but essentially trade Patrick Mahomes to the Chiefs their reported theft of Panthers draft info could be seen as a clever move. An argument could be made that THAT was their best overall draft in the McBeane era. I know he's not been a particularly good personnel man but I've always taken solace in Howie Roseman not being very good early in his tenure with Philly either. You can grow into that job if you are smart like Beane.

Yeah the Matt Kalil signing turned out to be horrendous. Gettlenutz wasn't the GM he was on leave with cancer. But they didn't want to elevate Beane because DG was supposed to get his job back when he recovered. So they brought back ol' Marty Hurney to technically fill the role temporarily so they didn't have to "demote" Beane later.........but Beane was doing a lot of the GM work at that point. https://www.nfl.com/news/panthers-release-left-tackle-matt-kalil-after-two-years-0ap3000001022737#:~:text=Kalil%2C who joined the Panthers,Rodrigue of the Charlotte Observer.

You don't HAVE to watch it. But thru the magic of technology I linked it right to the moment where Beane is called out. I am critical of Beane as a personnel man.........he's no scout and his free agency track record in particular has been simply horrendous...........but I have long been a huge fan of Beane the executive. He's been a puppet master with fans.....and seemingly ownership.............and that buys you a ton of runway. That's critical to making it when you are faking it(which is how many big successes begin........and let's face it, Pegula wasn't going to be getting a regime that didn't have to fake it.......it's about the best result we could have expected getting these guys). I was disappointed that Beane showed his a$$ on WGR though. That was cringe-worthy and weak. I don't really care if he owns his failures but he should just keep quiet. Real gangsters don't rap. He had that working for him and that made him look strong. Now he's the guy who responded with questions about having a WR1 with "I signed Joshua Palmer".

Interesting comments by Sam Monson of the 33rd team. Says Beane got "butt hurt" and was "big mad" at PFF. 😂

I love the pitch clock. It makes the game more like the pace was in the 70's or 80's when pitchers were taught to work fast and manage effort like you gotta' go nine innings. The pitch clock shaved almost a 1/2 hour off of games....and while people stay up later than they used to......nobody wants 7pm games ending after 10 pm on weeknights.

Simple cure for most that ills baseball: Make the strike zone a circle that fits INSIDE the current box. It's called a strike zone because that's the zone where the ball is supposed to be easy to strike with the bat. That's not the case with those corners and to add insult to injury all these "pitchers" gotta' do is hit the tiniest edge of the box for it to be considered "IN" the strike zone. If you think the hitting sucks now wait until they automate the zone next season and pitchers are allowed to just nail that up and inside pitch that is 99% unhittable but still considered a strike. And that's inside the box. The reality is that zone is WAY bigger than the box........it's the box plus a line of baseballs all around it. A good pitcher really never has to throw a hittable pitch. And if you can run 5 relievers out there every game they never get fatigued regardless of how hard they throw. The ball is round, the bat is a cylindrical........make the zone a circle. Watch the mph of pitches drop and the number of ridiculous breaking balls decline and watch batting averages return to where they were and A LOT more action. And I will say "most" that ills baseball and not "all" because one problem baseball will always have is that you can't score on defense. It's the only one of the 4 major sports where you know for a fact you can tune out for 10 minute intervals and not miss your team scoring. I can usually watch a movie during a baseball game by just not watching my team pitch.

The top 2 picks in the round got fully guaranteed contracts. So the rest are holding out. That's pretty much it.

Stevie could just audible mid-route and go wherever he wanted because there was no real consequence to not being where the play call was designed to be. Those teams punted and turned the ball over so much that the standard was extremely low. Defenders are trained to anticipate routes based on where receivers SHOULD be. That's why Revis gave up numbers to Stevie. He was very often not where the play was supposed to take him. Those were bad Bills teams. In 2011 Stevie could rank 19th in yardage but 56th in ypc, 92nd in success rate and 135th in catch % because expectations for the offense were VERY low. Fitz lead the NFL in interceptions over that 3 year stretch. A lot of those were on Stevie. PFR didn't track the WR passer rating and INT stats they now have when receivers were targeted then but he was a highly inefficient WR. If Stevie did that with Josh Allen, especially early in his career, it would have been a disaster. Took a while for Allen to even risk throwing with anticipation and that took time to build up trust that he had guys that would be where they were supposed to be. I mean we thought Gabe Davis was bad at being where he was supposed to be. Stevie was a$$ at that. And obviously, it didn't work when he went elsewhere.

Nice break from the annual Errin' Buffoone summer swoone today with the offense scoring 9 and Clark Schmidt throwing 7 no-hit innings to run his streak to 25+ scoreless innings. Hary Snatchez broke up the combined no-no after a questionable check swing no-call. Final 9-0 one hit for the BozO's. 3 straight starts with 6 scoreless innings for Schmidt ties a Yankee record(with 11 others, most recently Sabathia in 2011). Below is the Yankees postgame pod/show that I think is the best to follow after every game. Don't get the soft company line like the YES postgame. In other news Luis Gil threw off the Yankee stadium mound today. Probably 6 weeks out. And last night was probably the best performance for a Yankee prospect this year with Spencer Jones getting 4 hits and maybe for the first time looking balanced and comfortable with a stance adjustment. He has been toying with new stance's all season and wiffing at a high rate. But he has found his power. 14 HR in 44 games is a lot in the minors. @YankeesFarm is good follow. Carlos works hard to post these Yankee prospect videos and give updates on on international signings etc..

IF that data indicates that he still has the same % chance to hit AFTER his first season than before it..........then that is a positive.........not "irrelevant". There is a reason only about 50% of 1st round picks get their 5th year option picked up.........because all of the rest have essentially given every indication that they will not live up to their draft status by year 5. And some of those that are picked up are exercised because the feeling is that they will "hit" by year 5. So less than 50% may be seen as on pace to be where the team hoped or expected. So in context, Coleman still having the same chance to hit as when he was drafted is not off the pace. And yeah, don't be a JAGoff and make me explain to you that All Pro's, guys who've lead the league in receiving yardage or had six 1,000 yard seasons are not JAG's.