Alphadawg7

Terrible idea. Bad teams would get stuck as being bad teams for a long time. Those teams would lose fans and ticket sales and become what the Clippers were in the NBA for decades when Sterling owned the team.

So everything in what you posted suggested it’s a Frazier issue and then you end it with saying it was a McD issue? Doesn't really make sense When we blitzed and lost a game on the blitz this season everyone said should have only rushed 4. Doesn’t matter what he did or called…when it doesn’t work everyone says it should have been the opposite.

Well the good news is he is already on the team Although not the same style of WR, but essentially talking about role potential, production, value, etc. I actually think Shakir's ceiling is higher than Robert Woods overall career. No guarantees he gets there, but I think he can have a better career than Woods potentially.

See, now this is what I am talking about...great response...look at us now ha. And I agree with most of this, this is a lot how I feel about him. I am not going to say he can't be a WR1, I mean look at someone like Kupp. No one expected him to emerge into what he is until he actually did a couple seasons ago. But I think its more likely he establishes himself as top end second WR on a team at some point. I honestly don't know if he gets that chance in Buffalo, or anyone for that matter, the way Allen and the Bills like to spread the ball around outside Diggs with so many mouths to feed here in Shakir, Kincaid, Samuel and of course what rookie we draft and even Cook out of the backfield. However, once Diggs is done here (and could be as early as next year depending on how Diggs plays this season) I can see him really being the WR2 opposite whatever Rookie we take in this draft to be the heir to Diggs and Samuel playing out of the slot. And I do think Shakir has the potential to be an excellent compliment to a WR1 here in the post Diggs era. Kupp is actually a very good comparison to him, not saying he will reach his level of success, but the type of WR they are. And it is no surprise either because Shakir studies Kupp and patterns his game after Kupp. And spot on about about Sanders, agree with everything you said there and about Samuel as well. Kudos...

Hahaha I still enjoyed the ride of reading your “logic” 😂

Yeah when I say muddled I mean different skill sets and styles. Outside the top 4 the next 6-7 guys vary greatly by the eye of the beholder and by what traits people like more and all have cases for where they should rank amongst them.

Yeah I do agree and agreed with Gunners post. As I mentioned to him, my example was just meant to be simple to illustrate the point, but definitely feel this logic goes into the decision making as well and Beane has said so too multiple times

If you look back, a lot of people were down on Justin Jefferson labeling him a slot guy mostly too because he played so much of it at LSU. Now I am not saying he is in the same tier as JJ as a prospect, just stating how one is used in college can sometimes create an inaccurate assumption about the player in the NFL.

Hahaha, yup. Def don't believe there is any drama with Diggs and the team, and I do have a lot of confidence in Shakir and think not only will he be a good player for us the next 2 seasons he is still under contract, but I think he is the kind of player I can see Beane resigning as well. I will say though, Diggs future here I think is going to come down to how he plays here based on his cost moving forward. He shows he still is playing at a high level, his odds of being back in 2025 increase and maybe even a contract restructure to help keep him here to retire a Bill. But if his play starts to be clear is falling off this season, then I think moving on from him after this season starts to get considered because the cap impact of doing so becomes more manageable next year. And what is the A Mitchell rumor, I think I missed that.

IMHO I think speed gets taken out of games too often late in the season and playoffs in Buffalo by bad weather. So I am not as worried about his speed concerns because he makes up for it in physical play and getting open using strength and IQ. Larry Fitzgerald had an elite career playing this way despite a 4.64 forty time. Don't get me wrong, I love to add elite speed whenever we can, but far too often our team has been too soft in the playoff losses, so adding someone with his kind of strength and ball skills intrigues me. Im not locked in on him by any means, just less concerned about the speed for those reasons. And I think McMillian gets labeled a slot because he played a lot of it for Washington because they had Odunze and Polk. I would be hesitant to label him a slot only guy in the NFL right now personally. With his excellent route running, I think he can move around the field inside and out.

Its not that I don't like Legette, he is quite intriguing with his size and speed. Biggest difference between me and you on him is that I have stronger concerns about some of his weaknesses holding back from being less a dominant WR1 and more of a WR2 in the NFL. Which is why I am more comfortable getting him in the 2nd than at 28. If we took Latu in the first and then landed Legette in the 2nd via our pick or even a trade up, I would be pretty stoked about that. Yeah, I don't disagree with you and I know it would never happen after we signed Samuel to a 3 year deal too. Just a fun scenario for discussion.

Its funny, once I get away from the big 3, my hopes and targets have changed several times already this offseason. Ive been interested in being aggressive and going up and getting Thomas if he got into say the 20's because 6'3" and 4.34 forty's don't come around all the time. Still am. But where I have been debating myself on is who do I prefer if the big 3 and Thomas go elsewhere. Assuming MHJ, Nabers, Odunze, and Thomas are all off the board. McConkey - He was the first guy I was hot on at 28. I think he has the highest floor of any WR in this range and still maintains a high ceiling too. When it comes to WR's, one of my favorite traits is excellent route runners, so its what I was initially drawn towards with him. Mitchell - Let me preface, not sure he will be there at 28, but could be. I mean its hard not to love all his attributes, but still a bit concerning he hasn't seemingly put all that together on the field yet. Either way, elite athleticism is intriguing. Coleman - I do love me a big phsyical WR that is open when not open. And in a city like Buffalo where bad weather back half the season and playoffs will negate speed, guys like Coleman can dominate. While he doesn't have the top end speeds of like Thomas, Mitchell, etc, he is still fast enough to be plenty dangerous while also being incredibly strong, big, and physical. He is the kind of guy who is open when not open or that will lay a massive block in the redzone to free up Cook for an easy TD. And again, in Buffalo, that may just be more valuable than elite speed. These are probably my most consistent next 3 I have been the most interested in after the MHJ, Nabers, Odunze, and Thomas are off the board. I would add in 3 more to kind of make a top 10 of Legette, Worthy, and Franklin as guys most often seen to be mixed in here in this tier of guys. What is crazy is how many other strong WR prospects there are beyond these 10 guys including guys like Pearsall (who I think is being slept on too much), McMillian (some call Diggs 2.0), Polk, Wilson, Burton, and more. This has to be the deepest draft at WR I can ever recall. Some very good WR's are going to be coming out this draft not only in the 2nd round, but on day 3. Here is an interesting scenario: We move back from 28 and recoup our 3rd. Take Coleman on the move back and get a guy who was built to play in Buffalo with this offense and then comeback and use that extra 3rd we got and double down on a route-running playmaker like Jalen McMillian. I mean what if we came out of this draft and turned our one pick at 28 into both Coleman and McMillian?

What if Thomas is there? Legit WR1 prospect that is 6'3" with a 4.34 forty time doesn't come around that often. I am not sure they can pass that up if he makes it to 28, although I don't expect him to. I know he has his own question marks and areas to improve, but that is a pretty sexy package for Allen if he is on the board at 28.

Im not against it, I am all for taking talent at 28. I am skeptical he reaches 28 though and it will depend on who is on the board at 28, especially at WR and DL.

I agree with you, I was just keeping the numbers and scenario simple so it would be clear. But I have brought this up in other posts when going into more detail as well. And Beane has openly discussed this as well as what goes into his consideration when drafting too.

You know, if you spent less time trying to challenge me all the time like you are trying to get some gotcha moment that never comes, we could probably have some pretty good football conversations and think you would find we have a lot of the same opinions...lol. But I will play along... What do I expect for Shakir his next 2 years: Fair question. To be clear, I expect him to remain in Buffalo both those years. First year (this upcoming season) Diggs will again lead the team in targets (barring injuries). Beyond Diggs, we have a talented roster that saw 3 first/second year players break out last year in Shakir, Kincaid, and Cook (both as receiver and runner). All 3 have earned roles in the offense, plus we just added Samuel on a 3 year deal and about to add another rookie likely early in the draft. That means Diggs is going to get his targets and there are a lot of mouths to feed after him this season. So I don't think anyone outside of Diggs will reach 1000 yards this season and if I had to give Shakir a range, I think 700-900 yards is where I gauge based on the fact there are a lot of mouths to feed. Year 2 - This is an interesting scenario because this is when Diggs future actually becomes more of a question. Diggs will be 31 and how he does this season will definitely impact the odds he is here again or would the Bills move on when the hit to do so is more palatable. If Diggs has a stellar 2024 and returns, then you got to think he likely is the top dawg again on the targets pecking order and we see a similar situation where we spread the ball around behind Diggs. So 700-900 yards is probably another logical range in that case for Shakir. However, if Bills move on from Diggs after this next year, then you got a 2nd year WR (the rookie we draft this year) who you are looking at to take over Diggs role, but also won't necessarily command the level of targets a player of Diggs caliber and experience does. In that situation, then I think its possible guys like Shakir and Kincaid will see an uptick in targets and more than 1 player getting 1000 yards becomes possible and would bump Shakirs range to probably 850-1000 yards knowing Kincaid is still going to likely remain a big part of the offense too. To be honest, I fully believe he could be 1000+ yard WR on a lot of other teams this next year where he could see the targets to do so. And that is not a stretch, he put up 611 yards on just 39 targets here last year. Lets compare that to our own Diggs last year. Diggs got 107 targets, so what would Shakirs season look like with 107 targets last year: Diggs - 107 targets, 1183 yards, 8 TD's Shakir - 107 targets, 1676 yards, 5 TD's Now, I am not stupid, I realize he benefits having a Diggs on the other side of the field, so I am not going to proclaim he would put up 1600+ yards as the top WR1 on a team drawing the best defender. I mean its not impossible, but also not realistic. But I do think he can be a very good second WR on a team where he gets the targets and they move him around inside and out. I honestly didn't see anyone saying he could be as good as Stef Diggs, at least not Stef at his best who was a top 5 WR at his best. But Shakir was probably our best WR down the stretch and in the postseason for this team last year. That being said, I think anyone who proclaims a young player will be as good as one of the best is always premature, just like when someone thinks someone can't be one of the best because they were not an early draft pick is premature and foolish. Look, I get its a small sample size, but I was on Shakir long before the sample size. So for me, the sample size is proving what I already believed he can do. And the guy works hard at his craft training with Moulds in the offseason. He has the drive to get there, that plays a big part for me too. I told everyone all training camp not to sleep on Shakir and most mocked and doubted that until Knox injury opened up more opportunities for him to prove what he can do and people finally started to see what I had already seen. Honestly, I have been open about my confidence in Shakir many times on this board, including threads I have started on him. I don't have a time machine, can't tell you for sure how his career plays out, but I do know I believe he has a bright future and I think will be a good player for us for at least the next 2 years. I think we have an exciting young core of weapons for Allens prime between whatever rookie we take early this year, Shakir, Kincaid and Cook.

Yeah, that is why I think a move up in the first would be a smaller type move up than a significant move. I also wouldn't be surprised to see Beane make a small move back if a guy isn't there at 28 he covets and try and recoup a 3rd and take a WR on the move back because once you get past the top 4 guys, the next 7 WR's kind of get muddled all together and who ranks where is in the eye of the beholder. So they could move back and still get a guy they really want potentially.

Do I think Shakir is capable of a 1000+ yard season if he got the targets…yes I do. I was on him going into the draft and even said prior to the draft to keep an eye on Shakir to the Bills. And nothing he’s done since arriving has deterred my confidence in him as a WR. I however didn’t say he would primarily be a boundary WR or even a WR1 as you just said in your posts. He will be someone that will move inside and out and is an ascending player whose efficiency last year was more than impressive. 13.5 yards per target is crazy good to go along with like an 87% catch rate. So yes, I’m confident in him, he’s earned that. But there’s no reason to over exaggerate my confidence in him the way you are as if I’m making bigger claims for him than I am.

Lol, except I never once said that Shakir is going to move outside and take on 80 more targets than the 45 he got this year which would mean he would get 125 targets this year…never gonna happen for anyone outside of Diggs unless injuries change the target landscape. I have repeatedly said that for as long as Diggs is here, no one is getting 100+ targets because Diggs is gonna get his and then the ball is gonna get spread around between Shakir, Samuel, Kincaid, even Cook plus whatever rookie we draft.

I’m hoping we move up in first and get Thomas…or Odunze it he slides close enough because of an early QB run and someone like Cowboys over drafts Worthy ahead of Odunze. I’m also ok moving back from 28 and taking a WR and picking up maybe a 3rd in doing so. I’m also fine going BPA if it’s another position and then maybe trading up in the 2nd to go get our guy. Draft is so deep and rich at WR, so I’m good with a number of scenarios. I don’t feel like it’s gotta be one particular way this year.

LOL...then you can say the 20th ranked WR is as safe as the 3rd ranked WR because they all have pros and cons. I am not saying Legette is the only one with a pros and cons list, every player in NFL history has that. So, no...you can't actually because each prospect is different, as are their pros and cons...so a blanket statement like you just made isn't relevant in comparing the players. The actual strengths and weaknesses of each player need to be individually considered in how you rank/grade said player. The ones around Legette specifically concern me. We are talking about an heir to Diggs...Diggs is a dawg...he is a threat at all 3 phases of the field, including for multiple years was one of the best deep ball and contested catch WR's in the NFL. Legette however has a lot of the same concerns that plagued Gabe Davis with limited route tree, struggles with press coverage, more of a strider making his best trait a deep ball threat. I want a true WR1 out of this draft that will be the heir Diggs as WR1 as early as potentially next year. So sorry, no disrespect, but don't dismiss my concerns around Legette as "you can do that with everyone" because that just has nothing to do with what I am concerned about with him vs other players we could take. I won't be mad if we take Legette, he is an intriguing prospect, but doesn't change the fact his specific concerns are ones that I think make him a bit riskier than others.

Living in LA I like this as it makes it easy to still follow his career as he was a fave of mine. Cutting him was the right choice cap wise coming off 2 major leg injuries in 3 seasons, so get why we moved on and its what had to be done. But still hope he comes back and has a strong finish to his career. Good luck Tre, have fun here in LA!

I would agree with you if we didn't already have an impressive arsenal of weapons for Josh between Diggs, Shakir, Kincaid, Samuel, and even Cook to throw to. Like if Diggs had actually been traded (which he isn't going to be) and we needed badly to replace Josh's top weapon. And lets realistically look at who will be there at 28: McConkey, Coleman, Franklin, Legette, Pearsall...possibly Mitchell and/or Worthy. Those are widely seen as the next best 7 WRs on the board in no particular order after the big 4. That group is all closely graded together...and the order in which they are ranked varies widely based on who you talk to. So for a visual example...just gonna make up a numbers ranking system of 0.0 to 10.0 that Beane puts as a grade. What if a player at another position of need (say a DE) has 9.2 grade at 28 and the next best guy at that same position has a 7.9 grade. Now the best WR left on the board has an 8.7 and of the 7 WR's listed above they are all tightly graded from 8.5 to 8.7 amongst themselves. Wouldn't you agree that it would be absolutely best to take the 9.2 player and then grab say even the 8.5 WR over reaching for say the 8.7 WR and being stuck with the 7.9 guy at the other position for our first 2 rounds? Not only is reaching a bad draft strategy...but you exponentially compound that mistake when you reach in a draft that is rich at that position with guys will similar grades and potential that can be had a round or 2 later. That is my only point. Don't pass up someone you have a much better grade on at another position of need to take a lesser WR, especially in a draft where you can get similar graded WR's a round or 2 later. Again, I do want a WR early...I am not advocating against that, only advocating against reaching

Those are not his only concerns...just to name a few... He is more of a strider, so takes longer to get up to his top speeds and mostly in straight lines He doesn't have great acceleration or burst, concerns it will limit his effectiveness at all 3 phases and make him more of a deep ball specialist Struggles with press coverage Isn't a polished route runner and may be limited to more of a downfield WR than a true WR1 who can attack all 3 phases of the defen Is Leggette an intriguing prospect...Yes. But, of anyone we can take at 28, he has probably the most risk with the lowest floor. With how deep the first 10-11 WRs are in this draft, I think Leggette is most likely going to go in the 2nd, which is where I would prefer to take him.

Ideally, any early WR we take this year is someone you want to see ascend to WR1 when Diggs time is up here (maybe as early as next year) or his play falls off as he finishes his career here and falls back more to a WR2/3 role towards the end of his career. Either way, ideally, we are drafting Diggs replacement. Which means it may take until Diggs is no longer a Bill before any rookie we draft hits 1000+ yard season (barring injuries creating an earlier opporunity) because the rest of our pass catchers are both young and talented, meaning they will have significant roles themselves in Samuel, Shakir, Kincaid, and even Cook. Also, comparing Kincaid to Rousseau isn't really fair as they were not in the same draft. So lets look at Rousseau's draft: The next 5 WRs off the board after his pick were: E. Moore, R. Moore, D. Eskridge, T. Atwell, T. Marshall. So lets say the Bills pass on Rousseau and instead reach for one of those 5 players...do you really think the Bills are better off if they pass on Rousseau for one of those pedestrian WR's? I mean 3 of them are scrubs, and 2 of them are decent, but nothing special and certainly not more valuable than a starting DE like Rousseau. And again, I am on the WR early band wagon, just saying I go into every draft with the mindset of not reaching is the best practice unless absolutely necessary. And I do not at all think it is necessary to reach at WR this year based on how good of weapons we already have and how rich and deep this draft is at WR.