Alphadawg7

This was what I expected IF we got a deal done, and this was pretty much where my max comfort spot was as well after we saw the RB market contracts rise. This feels like a pretty fair deal on both sides, and I am stoked he will remain in Buffalo! LFG - Cant wait for the season opener!

All fair points, and I am not sold Shavers beats out Moore either. And while I think we only keep 5 WR's, keeping 6 is still a possibility. The problem is I cant see them keeping 6 WRs unless one is an important ST player like a returner which would make more sense to be Shenault, who did show well first preseason game as both a receiver and on ST. But who knows, definitely won't rule out keeping 6 where both Moore and Shavers make it, I just personally think its going to be 5 still. As far as when our 2 suspended guys come back, the issue is who would be out at DL? They are high on Solomon who seems to have taken some nice steps forward so far in camp this offseason according to reports. And they really like Carter and his versatility. All of our rookies are safe from being cut, and so is Bosa, Groot, AJE, Oliver, etc. There is no one there that is just "cuttable" IMHO - so they would have to find a trade dance partner which is certainly possible. We also have some guys on 1 year deals or last year of their deals, so they may not want to move any with next year in mind.

Thanks - I mean its all just us guessing, so no right or wrong answers here. Fun thread though In terms of a couple of the spots I disagreed with your projected list on - I just think Mitch has played more meaningful games than White and has more similarities in style to Josh than White, plus more experience in this locker room. So for White to unseat him I think he would have to decisively beat him out and I am not sure he shown he can do that yet. But still more time left to prove me wrong. Hamlin is a guy they love, so another guy would have to decisively be beaten out to lose his spot, and I don't see anyone pressing him for his spot at this point. Neither are locks though, so anything can still happen, just haven't seen either pressed enough to think they wont make the 53 personally.

Wait - you are all over this thread obsessing over what the first preseason game means for our defenses future - I make one comment about a post you wrote on public forum and I am obsessing? LMAO - I think Homey took one too many socks loaded with tennis balls to the dome Pro Tip - If you only want one person to chime in to your hot takes you can always use the DM function homey 😂

TBH, up to this point I had Moore making it and was pretty confident in that. But I think Shavers could be slightly edging ahead as he has not only had a great camp, but he really helped himself in the first preseason game and has the higher ST value. Not to mention how fast he came back from injury and made an impact first preseason game. I don't think its a lock by any means, and would not surprise me one bit to see Shavers to PS and Moore stick to the 53. I have been high on Moore since he came into the NFL, so hoping he turns it up here. To be fair, I don't think Samuel has done anything to have "job security" either who keeps getting dinged up. But Samuel has 2 things going for him - experience here already and with Brady even before here and his contract would be harder to move off of via trade/cut. So feels like Moore is the guy whose spot Shavers is directly challenging. Gonna be interesting to watch - I am pulling for Moore who IMHO has much higher upside - but based on what has come out about camp, feels like Shavers is legitimately pushing him for that 5th spot and his added ST value may give him an edge if its a close call. This is going to be an interesting battle to watch IMHO.

What if we don't agree with your 45. For example, I don't think Mike White is making the team over Mitch and I think Hamlin will make the team as well. You also don't have Thompson making it even though he has popped in camp and McD has been gushing about him. Nothing is ever certain, but you are asking us to pick 8 more as if we agree with your first 45, which I don't agree on some of your choices. Offense: QB - Allen, Trubisky RB - Cook, Davis, Ty FB - Gilliam TE - Kincaid, Knox, Hawes WR - Keon, Palmer, Shakir, Samuel, Shavers OT - Dawkins, Brown, Grable, Van Demark OG - O'Cyrus, Edwards, Anderson C - McGovern, VPG The other day I still had Samuel and Moore as the final 2 WR's and Shavers to the PS. But with how much Shavers has been playing ST, and them really needing someone at the back end of the WR to likely be a ST guy as well, I am starting to think Moore is the odd guy out. I warned everyone not to over react to how he looked in shorts, fast guys always do when no pads on. But all the reports is that he didn't do much in camp since then and Shavers has all the coaches gushing about him and I think he may have just took a leg up in the race for WR5 after the first preseason game. Still won't surprise me to see Shavers to PS and Moore make the team, but I do think Shavers has the momentum right now and Moore would be the guy who would be in more jeopardy than Samuel mostly due to Samuels time in the offense and contract size. Defense DE - Bosa, Rousseau, AJE, Jackson, Solomon DT - Oliver, Jones, Sanders, Walker, Carter LB - Bernard, Milano, Williams, Thompson, Andreesen, Ulofoshio CB - Benford, Hairston, White, Johnson, Strong, Codrington S - Rapp, Bishop, Hamlin, Lewis, Forrest Not Sure why so many left Shaq off their lists, nothing but strong reports coming out of camp on him and I expect to see him on the roster at this point. And as others have said, Hamlin is making the team. Forrest was a toss up for me, and he may not make the team, but he feels like one of the better players in terms of fringe guys, and with how banged up our secondary has gotten I think he does make the team but will be in jeopardy when our suspended guys get back. That being said, would not surprise me to see Dane make it over Forrest instead for ST reasons. Special Teams PK - Bass Punter - Robbins LS - Reid I think Forrest and Ulofoshio would be the odd guys out when our 2 guys from suspension are back.

Buy AOL and Myspace So lets see - you mean the defense that even McD said somewhere between 0 and 1 on a scale of 1-10 was spent actually game planning for this game? Or do you mean the starters whose priority is not to go hard but to get a feel for contact and game speed while trying to not get hurt like Taron almost did going too hard? Drawing conclusions from the first preseason game is about as realistic as the emails you get from Prince's in Africa who need your help to get their money to the US.

I assure you that YOU don’t want to do that.

The best thing about preseason is it identifies the people whose posts you can confidently skip during the season if they are coming up with hot take conclusions off the first preseason game.

Man I can’t wait for the season to start.

All good bud, took no offense at all - just the whole "reasonable" was taken its own direction. The OP I replied to was someone slamming the signing of Shakir and couldn't believe he got a deal before Cook. My entire point is that Shakir was not seeking more than Beane was offering - hence why his deal, as well as Groot, Benford, etc all got done before Cook. Cook is asking for more than what Beane has been willing to pay, hence the status of Cook. Had Shakir asked for $20M his deal wouldn't have gotten done either. Again, all good bud, just this just kind of got off topic from the post I actually replied too which was slamming the Shakir signing over Cook. Cheers

Ok, let me ask you this - Whose OL would you want to start week 1 against Baltimore - Last years version of the Chiefs OL our last years version of our OL? Me, its ours - so better OL as a group IMHO.

No disrespect, but feels like you are really way over analyzing a word here and taking this conversation into things completely unrelated to the post I originally replied or the context of what I actually said (and clarifed). Its all good, agree to disagree on what I meant. Cheers Like I said to the other poster - you are over analyzing a word to be something entirely different than the context I used it to. This is off on some other tangent now from the actual comment I replied to. The point was Shakirs deal was easy to do when he wasn't asking for more than Beane was willing to pay. This isn't complicated Its all good, no biggie and we can just agree to disagree on my context, cheers.

I can't see them making the playoffs and I don't think McDaniels or the FO survive this offseason.

Cook proved without a doubt he WANTS to be here when he risked his contract, his future, etc and showed up to camp and practiced despite not having a deal done yet. If he didn't want to be here, he wouldn't have risked that injury and played hard ball from the get go or asked for a trade. He was showing his commitment to be here, and it wasn't unnoticed by the team and FO. This idea guys don't want to be here because they are trying to get the best deal they can for their family is always wild to me. The NFL FO can bail on his contract if they want, they are not fully guaranteed. He is a RB that even if he is the best at his position, he will earn considerably less than other great players at other positions over their careers because they make less and generally wear down faster. In fact man teams run them into the ground now and draft a younger one instead of paying them. Sorry, but this is a short sided take IMO

No disrespect, but you just echoed what I said when I said reasonable. What Beane deems is reasonable based on how he percieves his value, the value of the position, and the cap plans with other contracts and spending moving forward. I didn't say it was our definition of reasonable. As I siad, if the contract Cook was seeking was reasonable (to Beane) he would be signed. The facts are, Cook is asking for more money than Beane was looking to pay - Shakir was not - so Shakir signed, Cook not signed. This isn't as complicated as its getting made out to be. Beane is clearly going to have to pay Cook more than he wants - but that amount still needs to be reasonable enough for him to go up in his price and ge the deal done - had they already gotten there the deal would already be signed. This convo started off someone complaining we paid Shakir already and not Cook. The massive difference is that Shakirs deal was in line with what Beane felt was good for the team - so its done. If Shakir and his team sat back and demanded $20M per year (like many were worried would happen around here), I assure you that would not have been a reasonable deal for Beane and Shakir wouldn't have a new deal either.

Its kind of what I expect too, he is just getting a lot of praise and runs with the ones this year with the injuries creating opportunity. So hard to know if he has a real shot at the final 53 or not as we have seen and heard the same things before about "camp standouts" who end on the PS still. My guess is the same, PS again

I didn't say Shakirs deal was "reasonable" because it makes "fans happy" - It was reasonable because Shakirs projected market as a FA was much higher than what he signed for. Those deals are much easier to get done, and yes, being a 5th round pick on a rookie deal brings a lot of injury risk, so there is incentive to sign early at a discount for stability. But that is beside the point, the point is Shakir's deal was easy to get done because it was a good deal on both sides. If Shakir was demanding $20M per year, he would still be in limbo the same as Cook. Point is - Bills have tried to extend Cook, and Cook started asking for $15M, at least publicly. Beane has stated their have been offers and they are not there yet on both sides. So the term "reasonable" is in direct reference to what the FO deems reasonable based on how they value him and their forward looking cap plans. And reports are that they are now closer, if true, that coupled with the Rams deal that just happened, I think we could see this resolved soon. End of the day, Shakir wasn't demanding more than the FO was offering, so the deal got done. Its just that simple as to why one was done, and easily, and the other is in a Hold In status.

Yeah, they can practice but not play in the regular season games

Well this is severely lacking context - First, Shakir missed 2.5 games last year, or he may have broke 1000 yards in his first full year as a starter (1.5 to injury, and week 17 when he, Allen and others sat out). Not to mention, he led the Bills in receiving ever since Brady took over and made Shakir a starter, including the stretch where Diggs and Davis were still here in 2023. Second, Shakir signed at a discount to his expected FA market, receivers in general (which according to this board are the most important thing) make more money, and Shakir signed at a discount to his projected market. Cook is asking to be paid well above his position and projected market. Cook wants elite workhorse RB money despite not being one. He plays a position where the value is lower than WR both in contract and position Bills have been very willing to pay Cook, and offered him a contract, but Cook wants more money than what makes sense. So sorry, this is not the same thing. If Cook was asking for reasonable money, he would have bene signed already, just like Shakir was. He also missed week 17 when the Bills held some guys out of a meaningless game with seeding and division wrapped up.

Nothing is impossible, but I think there is 0% change of this personally - and I am not totally sure, but I think if you are holding out anytime past like week 10 then you lose the credit for the season.

That was my point - he was the previous fringe guy slash camp star and always ended up on the PS.

I am trying to figure out what to make of Shavers - coaches really seem impressed, but I have also seen this story before when we had Hodgins here who would have strong camps but when it came to cut down time was always the odd man out. And that was without the stiff competition of guys like Samuel and Moore. I am highly doubtful we keep 6 WR's unless one is either a returner or ST ACE they feel like they must keep. We are going to likely be keeping more than in past seasons at places like DL and CB this year, making it that much harder to keep 6 at WR. So if Shavers makes this roster I think its more likely at the expense of one of Moore or Samuel. And both their roster spots are less secure now than they seemed to be earlier in the offseason thanks to injuries. The battle between Samuel, Moore, and Shavers will be very interesting to watch the rest of camp and preseason as I think only 2 of them make the team. Wouldn't surprise me to see Samuel traded either if they want to keep Shavers.

I think a deal is going to get done personally, especially after the deal with the Rams. But, either way, Cook I am certain still plans to play this year regardless, holding in is a MUST do for him at this stage because any injury in camp 100% kills his chance at a deal. But he isn't going to miss the opportunity to earn game checks, and more importantly, prove his worth to either this team or the next if we don't get a deal done. I am not currently the least bit worried about him "not" playing come week 1. Especially against Baltimore. I could be wrong, but I don't remotely get the impression sitting out games in the season is a real threat right now. I never expected him to even come to camp, too much injury risk while negotiating, but he wanted to put his best foot forward and show he wants to be here, and I do think that carried weight with Beane and the team and also the Kyrien deal helps reign in his ask too now. So I think the odds of a deal getting done are as high as they have been since the contract talks began.

Thst is beating him in the Redzone like that though, it’s tight quarters on those and those routes that’s as open as you’re gonna get generally