Alphadawg7

Ah...gotcha, thanks

Have I missed something? Why was Mitchell removed? Did something happen that takes him off the board as an option?

Yes if Beane can make the cap work as he wants more money now, not later. Anquan Boldin has a HOF case IMHO, I think he is one of the most underrated WR's of the past 20 years. I would LOVE to find an equivalent to Boldin in this draft. And he is a prime example, along with guys like Larry Fitzgerald, that 40 time is not the be all end all its made out to be.

This is a fun example...here is why I didn't include him. Statistically hemhad his 3 worst prime years (all in the 800 yard range) in his 3 years in Baltimore where he was a 1000+ yard guy both before and after Balt but never reaching 900 in Baltimore. And the trade compensation is not really that close to the trade compensation we are discussing, although I will give you its still a decent size investment. But, this is a worthy counter example to weigh, so nice work, and I won't fully disregard this one even though I think it falls a little short on the comparable moves we are discussing, especially given to get one of the big 3 its going to cost the Bills substantially more than what Balt paid to get Boldin. Still, nice work

To be clear...I am only making one case, and that is that a hefty investment in a WR has never worked out. And keep in mind, I am including more than an expensive draft day trade up, I am talking an expensive trade for a proven WR and I am including a big contract for a Free Agent signing acquisition for a WR. There are a lot more examples then I think you realize I am referencing when you factor all 3 scenarios in. Just in the past 4 years you have guys like Diggs, Hopkins, Hill, Adams, etc that all meet that criteria and haven't led to a Lombardi trophy. My personal case is built on the investment vs return. I am not saying you can't win with a top tier WR1, I am saying that spending big to acquire one has never been the missing piece. I am all for getting a WR early and getting a top tier WR1, just not gutting our future to do so in what may be the best WR draft in NFL history. The Bills are most likely not a better team with Nabers and getting rid of our 2nd this year, our 1st next year and another 2nd than they are at taking a WR at 28 like Mitchell, then using our 2nd to get OL, DL, Secondary, or another WR and then using our 1st and 2nd next year to add more to our other needs. Odds are greater the Bills in 2 years will be a better team adding say Mitchell (or what ever WR one prefers at 28) and 3 more prospects in rounds 1 and 2 then just adding Nabers/Odunze only. They can still double dip on WR this year too in a very deep draft.

Yes the back and forth was fun. There was a player we as the Cardinals very much liked and wanted to take, so we didn’t take the trade down lightly and needed to make sure it made sense for us, and ultimately we came to an agreement.

And I, as the Cardinals, only move back 5 spots and add another 3rd too in this deep draft. With my small trade back with Giants, I’ve now still landed Odunze and added 2 additional 3rd round picks (giving us 5 3rd rounders) and an extra 4th (giving us 2). That’s now 7 picks in rounds 3 and 4 and we still have a first and a second coming up in the next 9 picks. Cardinals could achieve a massive reset this draft with a couple small moves, both which are very realistic options for them.

TRADE ALERT: With the 27th pick in the NFL Draft, the Arizona Cardinals trade this selection to the Kansas City Chiefs. @HappyDaysand the Chiefs are now on the clock. Details of the trade are: Arizona trades pick 27 (680) and KC sends back picks 32 and 95 (710)

Doesn’t have anything to do with the point of what I said about spending a lot of assets to get a WR. But you know that already cuz we have discussed it multiple times now in multiple threads. The comment was about just because they are generational talents at WR doesn’t mean it’s worth weakening the roster elsewhere to go get one. And these are unproven “generational talents”.

How many Super Bowls did generational talents of Moss, Megatron, Fitzgerald, and Julio win? And in that draft, Jeudy, Lambn, and Ruggs were considered some of the best WR's to come out in a while and that was considered one of the best WR drafts heading into it in recent times with them being in a class of their own. More importantly, people wanted to mortgage a ton of picks to go get one, even more than we paid for Diggs...which would have been a mistake when none of them were as good as the guys still on the board at our original pick nor as good as Diggs was for us the past 4 years. Tond Mandarich was considered maybe the greatest prospect of all time of almost any position like he was destined for the HOF. He was not that in the NFL. I can think of a long list of "generational" talents in drafts that either went on to have solid, mediocre, or flat out bust careers. It isn't a sure thing.

Good find, and I am aware of this one, but its not really an example for a couple reasons, one of which you already stated. As you already said, they were already Super Bowl champions, he was a luxury add to a SB Championship team, not a missing piece. All the Niners netted in the trade was a loss of one 2nd round pick. The other compensation was just a swap of third rounders, so slight trade down. It doesn't meet the multiple premium picks criteria. But yes, he was a cornerstone moving forward, but those Fortyniner teams were stacked on both sides of the ball including what for periods of time were considered the GOAT at QB, WR, and S and a bunch of all time greats on both sides of the ball. However, a more relevant SF example is when 10 years later Bill Walsh and the Niners traded up to number 10 to draft JJ Stokes, calling him "the next Jerry Rice" and traded away 2 firsts, a 3rd and a 4th rounder to do so just for him to be a bust. In fact, the actual heir to Rice would be none other than Terrell Owens who they acquired in the 3rd round the very next draft without having to trade anything to get him.

Can't wait to see Diggs after losing to the Bills in the playoffs standing on the field in Buffalo watching the Bills and fans celebrate and then having to watching Josh hoist the Lombardi and SB MVP trophies a few weeks later. I got nothing personal against Diggs, and wish him continued success when not playing us, but I will enjoy beating him after he lost faith in Buffalo and Josh Allen to get there.

Difference though is that those teams had better overall rosters because they didn't blow multiple premium picks and insane cap space to get them. And Kelce this year was no where near top 5, he was looking shot a chunk of the year and people were surprised he didn't retire. Not sure Kelce was even top 5 the year before...at his position yes, but he isn't better than 5 of the best receivers in the game. Evans was not on most peoples top 5 list either, nor was Hill when they won, but easily top 10 so that is splitting hairs much like Kelce. No one disagrees we need to add a WR, but the talent is rich and deep in this draft. Next year we have a first and 2 second round picks that could really bolster this team, to give them up sets us back elsewhere. So the question is, is the cost to do so offset the loss of assets? And in a draft this good for WR, I don't see it. Plus...we had a top 5 WR on this team for 4 years straight, arguably top 3 for 2+ of those years and we haven't made it out of 2nd round in 3 straight seasons. So its pretty clear, top 5 WR is not our missing piece or we would have won a SB already. Im not gonna throw a fit if we move up and get one of the big 3, all of them would be exciting. But I do not think its a sound investment in a draft that is probably the best WR draft in NFL history. I would rather keep our picks next year and use our 1st and 2nd on 2 WR's doubling our chances than give up 2 firsts and 2 seconds to get one. Remember Jeudy, Ruggs, and Lamb draft as the big 3 can't miss guys? Only one of them panned out and the best WR in that draft was Jefferson and then Higgins until Lamb made a case finally in year 4 to be the 2nd best WR out of tha draft. No guarantees the big 3 end up being the be best WR's to come out of this draft even. Tons of high ceiling players in it. We may have already found a Kelce...you forget about Dalton Kincaid?

Not that many, go look for yourself. And again, I am also talking teams who are good teams making a move to go get a Tyreek Hill, Davante Adams, DeAndre Hopkins, Stefon Diggs who are top tier WR1 and after all they spent to get them and pay them got ZERO Super Bowls. Or a team spending big to trade up and get a Julio Jones. So not, its not a correlation of just bad teams, I am specifically stating teams that have gone and spent big thinking a WR gets them over the hump to ultimately win nothing of importance. I am happy to be wrong about this, so if you can find even one example of a team that won a Super Bowl after any of the following scenarios, I will glady adjust my 0% success rate and 100% fail rate statements: Acquired for top dollar in Free Agency Acquired via trade for premium draft capital (like Adams, Hill, Diggs, etc) Acquired through an expensive trade up trade in a draft (like a Julio, Watkins, etc) Find me any example that got a team over the hump to put hardware in their case for going all in on a WR and I will change my tune. Don't even need multiple examples, just asking for one that maybe I missed, which is possible.

Losing 2nd or losing 8th is still losing. Who cares. I want to win.

This is what I have been saying. The last 20 years, only one SB team had a WR1 taken in the top 15 picks. There has never been any team in NFL history to make a huge investment to acquire a WR via trading for a proven one or trading up to draft one and win a SB. There isn't even a team who signed an expensive one in FA that won a SB. Making a large investment in a WR via draft picks or free agency spending has a 0% success rate...aka 100% fail rate...in taking a team and getting them over the hump to win a Super Bowl. Look at what Miami paid for Tyreek Hill who has been arguably the best WR in the NFL (him or Jefferson) the past 2 years and Miami can't even win their division with a 4 game lead late in the season and has 0 playoff wins. Or look at Raiders an Davante Adams. Even NE when they had Moss actually LOST in the Super Bowl, although they didn't invest a lot to get him. Now go look at the top 5 WR's in the NFL...more often than not, they are not on teams in the Super Bowl, let alone winning it. This board has had an unhealthy obsession with WR as if not having the best WR's is the reason we lose. We lost in 2020 because we were the worst team on the field in that game. We lost in 2021 because of our defense. We lost in 2022 because we got dominated in the trenches and couldn't run the ball in bad elements. We lost in 2023 because we had no Linebackers and KC abused that mismatch and we couldn't even get Mahomes dirty. We have never been eliminated because we didn't have enough weapons. Our stable of weapons the last 4 years is better than a lot of Super Bowl winning teams offensive stables. We had a top 5, arguably top 3, WR for the past 4 seasons and we have lost in the 2nd round 3 straight seasons. I mean, I want a WR early in this draft too, we all do. But this notion we must mortgage the farm to go get one has 0 examples of ever working and weakens a cap strapped team from building the overall roster. I mean next year, we have a first and 2 seconds to keep adding more ammo to this team, and people want to give it away like sticks of gum. Not to mention, this is maybe the best WR draft in history, even less need to make a major move.

And both lost.

But, if you start the poll you won't know what trades would be available to include in the poll. So if you have people get you the offers ahead of time, you can include them at the start of the poll

Here is what I think you could do to help from it taking too long...in fact, this would result in the poll not taking any longer than before. Put a message out to all of the managers here right now that if any of them have interest in making a trade up with the Bills for any player they need to submit that BEFORE the Bills are on the clock to the trade committee (Myself and Virgil). So they can start looking and sending them into to me and Virgil now. They are free to put any stipulations on it as in "We offer picks X and Y for Bills pick 28, but ONLY if player X is there (or multiple players if there is more than 1 they would trade up for)". If the trade meets the requirements of an approvable trade, we will mark it as an tentatively approved as an option to include in a poll if said players are on the board at 28. Then when we get to 28, you already have ALL of your trade down offers and we will know which ones are alive and which ones are dead because X player(s) were not there. Once the Bills are on the clock, the trades are locked and there is no pulling out of the deal by the other GM if the trade met all the criteria. If any trades are alive, you immediately put the TSW poll up with option to select whatever players are in play for us at 28 and include all the trade down offers still alive, if any, as well in the poll. So the poll is the same poll it always is and will not take any additional time. Who we would take in the trade down is not part of the vote as the rest of the draft still needs to play out until what would be our pick, so no need to include who we might take, people can guess on that themselves when weighing the option to trade back vs who we could take at 28.

Honestly, if we take Worthy I guarantee the new KO rules helped put them over the top as that absolutely boosts his value and why I have warmed up some to him where I previously had him around 8th or 9th on my WR board just over the size concerns I brought up above. And if we do take him, I have a feeling Beane may make a move to go get someone like Tez Walker in the third by trading back up there with some of our extra picks.

Well played and your screen name makes it better lmao

Xavier Worthy posted on Instagram yesterday that he was in Buffalo for what appears a pre-draft visit. Love his speed, but I am concerned about his durability with that slender frame and also concerned how effective he would be in bad weather when speed is negated and play gets a lot more physical. So not sure how much sense he makes as a WR1 for Buffalo, but I can see why they would have him in for a visit as that speed is nuts. Seen a lot of Tyreek Hill talk with Worthy, but they really are not at all similar outside straight line speed. Hill is a dawg down field who is physical despite being short, but is very strong. Worthy is very slender, and I am concerned about if he will have the strength to beat press coverage or step up when the weather and elements negate the speed factor late in the season and playoffs in Buffalo. But he is intriguing with that 4.2 speed.

Trade stands, but since neither @Virgil or myself were notified, a stiff penalty has been enacted. $100 needs to be sent via Venmo to myself by the owners, and then the participating GM's must take @Virgil to Tiffany's Cabaret Gentleman's Club next Wednseday for Lumpy Hump Day daytime happy hour and provide no less than 3 flap dances and 3 rounds of Fireball double shots. Just no, if @Virgil doesn't leave there itchy, sticky, or smelling bad, you didn't do enough and further sanctions may be applied.

Im all for a red version, but I also wouldn't mind seeing some sick new design on it to make it more than just bringing an old one back. I have seen quite a few bad a** ones over the years people have mocked up. Do Zomething Different - yup...that was a Zima reference lol

Not true, he absolutely has value. You all said nobody would trade for Tyrod and we got the first pick in the 3rd for him. Personally, I think Elam still has value to the team and could come in a compete to start again with him being healthy, Tre being gone, and Benford coming off injury. But if we did trade him, he would absolutely have value especially to a team who plays a style of defense that better fits his skill set. He was a first round pick on a team that plays a different style than his strengths were, that won’t kill his value.