Aaron Maybin update from JW

[Steely Dan]

But, I thought the idea was they drafted him with the expectation of immediate contribution...There were a number of reasons for this:

1. Drafted in #11 spot...and folks going that high are expected to contribute sooner rather than later. How many articles have we read about how the Bills expect immediate help in QB pressures/sacks arena from this pick

2. They were going to him situationally. Most likely in passing situations, to help accentuate his strengths as a rusher.

3. He plays DE and the assignments/learning process is supposed to be less extensive than other positions

 

He is young and inexperienced, but it's perfectly reasonable to have high expectations for him early. While we don't want to condemn him during preseason, he needs to start making contributions within a couple of weeks into the season to justify the pick.

 

Mario Williams needed a little time too. I don't think Maybin will be in Williams' league but I think he'll need time too.

[AF88Bills]

Mario Williams needed a little time too. I don't think Maybin will be in Williams' league but I think he'll need time too.

 

Mario Williams needed a decent tackle to play beside him. They still expected him to command double teams and have an impact for the worst team in the league. That situation is different. Maybin has been, and is expected to produce once this season gets underway.

[H2o]

how many guys in the last 10 years or currenty are playing at a hall of fame level in the whole league? Here some skill position guys to start the list, but there isn't a lot.

QB - Manning, Brady, Favre

RB - Tomlinson, Faulk

WR - Moss, T.O., Harrison

TE - Gonzalez, Gates

 

There's a NCAA bench warming QB, an undersized NCAA basketball player and guys from football programs that are marginal at best. UT, Michigan, Southern Miss, TCU, San Diego St, Marshall, Tenn-Chat., Syracuse, Cal and Kent State.

 

The draft is a crap shoot. It doesn't matter where the guy played.

You forgot Emmitt Smith, Jerry Rice, Ray Lewis, Michael Strahan, Champ Bailey, Deion Sanders, Ed Reed, Troy Polamalu, Walter Jones, Jeff Saturday, Demarcus Ware, Larry Fitzgerald, Kurt Warner, and Drew Brees. That's all I can think of at the moment and I'm sure I left a couple off the list.

[StupidNation]

You forgot Emmitt Smith, Jerry Rice, Ray Lewis, Michael Strahan, Champ Bailey, Deion Sanders, Ed Reed, Troy Polamalu, Walter Jones, Jeff Saturday, Demarcus Ware, Larry Fitzgerald, Kurt Warner, and Drew Brees. That's all I can think of at the moment and I'm sure I left a couple off the list.

 

You left off Donte Whitner. Just ask him.

[DanInSouthBuffalo]

This really isn't news to me. Call me in week six or so and see where he's at.

 

BTW, I've been wondering for awhile if they have some sort of hybrid role in store for him. Maybin's combine bio has him listed at OLB/DE, and a team like the Pats play both the 3-4 and 4-3 at times depending on situation. Maybe they can maximize his use by moving him around?

[Sisyphean Bills]

Anybody who watched the Rose Bowl knew Maybin would have a tough adjustment to the pro game. Let's give it time.

Kind of an clashing sentiment considering Dick Jauron is concurrently in a win-or-else situation. Unless he isn't.

[keepthefaith]

I agree we don't have good talent evaluators now, they stink in fact. But what you said was, "The point being we evaluated talent better in the 90's, wouldn't pass on a defensive tackle for a cornerback", which was the opposite of the case. We didn't evaluate DTs back then well either as Jeff Wright was our weak spot, AND we passed on DTs for cornerbacks then more back then than we do now. Holy crap.

 

The early 90's Bills had Jeff Wright, Lodish and Pike. Who needs a DT when you have those guys?

[dave mcbride]

that's what you get drafting a player from penn state, has any school created more busts in the league

In the last two decades: Jeff Hartings, Marco Rivera, Larry Johnson, Bobby Engram, Dave Szott, Lavar Arrington, Kareem McKenzie, Levi Brown, Joe Jurevicius, Kim Herring, Steve Wisniewski, Kyle Brady, Sam Gash, Kerry Collins ...

 

Do you really follow the NFL, or just the draft's first round highlights?

 

Btw, Courtney Brown would have been an absolute stud if not for the injuries. Same goes for Kijana Carter.

 

And no, I'm not a Penn State fan at all.

[Fan in Chicago]

Mario Williams needed a decent tackle to play beside him. They still expected him to command double teams and have an impact for the worst team in the league. That situation is different. Maybin has been, and is expected to produce once this season gets underway.

 

As I was reading through the posts in this thread, I was thinking the same thing. Before the draft, much is said every year about how drafting a D player offers the best chance of contribution in the rookie year. We needed help on the OL and at the DE spot. My understanding was that 'D players are more ready' was the logic used to draft Maybin at #11. Now, why are people thinking it is okay if he did not contribute this year ? I am okay with him taking the first few games to learn (especially as he missed so much practice time). But, I will be sorely disappointed if he does not contribute in a very meaningful way by games 4 or 6. I am not going to get washed up in any spin the FO puts out about how 'we always knew he would be a project'.

[Thurman#1]

But, I thought the idea was they drafted him with the expectation of immediate contribution...There were a number of reasons for this:

1. Drafted in #11 spot...and folks going that high are expected to contribute sooner rather than later. How many articles have we read about how the Bills expect immediate help in QB pressures/sacks arena from this pick

2. They were going to him situationally. Most likely in passing situations, to help accentuate his strengths as a rusher.

3. He plays DE and the assignments/learning process is supposed to be less extensive than other positions

 

He is young and inexperienced, but it's perfectly reasonable to have high expectations for him early. While we don't want to condemn him during preseason, he needs to start making contributions within a couple of weeks into the season to justify the pick.

 

 

If by "high expectations" you mean maybe 3 - 5 sacks for the year, yeah, expect away, or hope anyway. But the fact is that DEs take a long time to get ready, not so much because there are tons of plays to be learned as because the season is longer and the guys across from them are much stronger and better conditioned. Much. It usually takes a year in the strength/conditioning program to adapt to the physical demands of the NFL at DE.

 

Also, guys like Maybin have gotten by on pure speed in college, but up here, they need to be able to use hand and arm techniques extremely well, stuff like swim moves, the rip, etc. The basics can be picked up in no time, but to use them well takes a while, and requires strength in areas where he never needed it in college.

 

Look at the first years of Derrick Harvey (3.5) and Mario Williams (4.5). There are the occasional exceptions (Peppers had twelve), but expecting the exceptional will leave you disappointed most of the time.

[zazie]

If by "high expectations" you mean maybe 3 - 5 sacks for the year, yeah, expect away, or hope anyway. But the fact is that DEs take a long time to get ready, not so much because there are tons of plays to be learned as because the season is longer and the guys across from them are much stronger and better conditioned. Much. It usually takes a year in the strength/conditioning program to adapt to the physical demands of the NFL at DE.

 

Also, guys like Maybin have gotten by on pure speed in college, but up here, they need to be able to use hand and arm techniques extremely well, stuff like swim moves, the rip, etc. The basics can be picked up in no time, but to use them well takes a while, and requires strength in areas where he never needed it in college.

 

Look at the first years of Derrick Harvey (3.5) and Mario Williams (4.5). There are the occasional exceptions (Peppers had twelve), but expecting the exceptional will leave you disappointed most of the time.

We don't have Philly this year so there is no for certain shutdown game against an elite LT.

 

He has 16 games, let's hope he can get 8 sacks, 7 more than Kelsay.

[Thurman#1]

Mario Williams needed a decent tackle to play beside him. They still expected him to command double teams and have an impact for the worst team in the league. That situation is different. Maybin has been, and is expected to produce once this season gets underway.

 

 

Okoye is good, but didn't have a good first year. But Williams still gets double-teams, just like he did from the beginning. He just didn't handle them well in his first year, where he does now.

 

Top ten DEs usually don't top 5 sacks in their first year, that's just the way it is.

 

Even Bruce Smith didn't have a great first year. His story, from 6.5 in his first year to 15 in his second, is typical, and closely parallels Williams and most of the great rush DEs.

[Thurman#1]

You forgot Emmitt Smith, Jerry Rice, Ray Lewis, Michael Strahan, Champ Bailey, Deion Sanders, Ed Reed, Troy Polamalu, Walter Jones, Jeff Saturday, Demarcus Ware, Larry Fitzgerald, Kurt Warner, and Drew Brees. That's all I can think of at the moment and I'm sure I left a couple off the list.

 

 

I agree with many of your list, but I believe he means "over the past ten years" not just guys who played a year or two in the last ten years. Guys who are playing now, basically.

 

Fitzgerald isn't there yet, though in another two or three years he will be. Same with Polamalu and Reed. Rice and Smith are old guys. Most of the rest of your list make the cut. And you're right, there are more out there. But that still makes them pretty rare. 32 teams an how many guys?

[Thurman#1]

We don't have Philly this year so there is no for certain shutdown game against an elite LT.

 

He has 16 games, let's hope he can get 8 sacks, 7 more than Kelsay.

 

 

Maybin will probably be in mostly at LDE, not RDE, won't he? That's what I figure, anyway, so that both he and Schobel will be after the QB on 3rd and long.

[Thurman#1]

As I was reading through the posts in this thread, I was thinking the same thing. Before the draft, much is said every year about how drafting a D player offers the best chance of contribution in the rookie year. We needed help on the OL and at the DE spot. My understanding was that 'D players are more ready' was the logic used to draft Maybin at #11. Now, why are people thinking it is okay if he did not contribute this year ? I am okay with him taking the first few games to learn (especially as he missed so much practice time). But, I will be sorely disappointed if he does not contribute in a very meaningful way by games 4 or 6. I am not going to get washed up in any spin the FO puts out about how 'we always knew he would be a project'.

 

 

 

I've never heard that D players will be more ready. LBs yes, safeties yes, CBs and DLs no. RBs yes, WRs no, OLs sometimes, QBs no. That's the way it usually works out. It isn't spin. Nobody reasonable expected major success from Maybin in his first year, not even if he had been in camp from day one.

[eball]

Sometimes, it's just entertaining as hell to sit back and read four pages of a thread like this, without even commenting.

 

I love Bills' fans. I think.

[Steely Dan]

As I was reading through the posts in this thread, I was thinking the same thing. Before the draft, much is said every year about how drafting a D player offers the best chance of contribution in the rookie year. We needed help on the OL and at the DE spot. My understanding was that 'D players are more ready' was the logic used to draft Maybin at #11. Now, why are people thinking it is okay if he did not contribute this year ? I am okay with him taking the first few games to learn (especially as he missed so much practice time). But, I will be sorely disappointed if he does not contribute in a very meaningful way by games 4 or 6. I am not going to get washed up in any spin the FO puts out about how 'we always knew he would be a project'.

 

I don't recall ever hearing that.

 

 

If by "high expectations" you mean maybe 3 - 5 sacks for the year, yeah, expect away, or hope anyway. But the fact is that DEs take a long time to get ready, not so much because there are tons of plays to be learned as because the season is longer and the guys across from them are much stronger and better conditioned. Much. It usually takes a year in the strength/conditioning program to adapt to the physical demands of the NFL at DE.

 

Also, guys like Maybin have gotten by on pure speed in college, but up here, they need to be able to use hand and arm techniques extremely well, stuff like swim moves, the rip, etc. The basics can be picked up in no time, but to use them well takes a while, and requires strength in areas where he never needed it in college.

 

Look at the first years of Derrick Harvey (3.5) and Mario Williams (4.5). There are the occasional exceptions (Peppers had twelve), but expecting the exceptional will leave you disappointed most of the time.

 

Bruce Smith 6.5

[vincec]

The early 90's Bills had Jeff Wright, Lodish and Pike. Who needs a DT when you have those guys?

Jeff Wright was a decent DT, who would of been very good in a 4-3 instead of playing nose tackle, IMO.

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

As I was reading through the posts in this thread, I was thinking the same thing. Before the draft, much is said every year about how drafting a D player offers the best chance of contribution in the rookie year. We needed help on the OL and at the DE spot. My understanding was that 'D players are more ready' was the logic used to draft Maybin at #11. Now, why are people thinking it is okay if he did not contribute this year ? I am okay with him taking the first few games to learn (especially as he missed so much practice time). But, I will be sorely disappointed if he does not contribute in a very meaningful way by games 4 or 6. I am not going to get washed up in any spin the FO puts out about how 'we always knew he would be a project'.

Whatnow

[jimmy griffin]

maybin only played one season of college -- so he is very green. but he has all the tools to be a great player. his arm lenght and span is unreal and he is able to use that along with his long torso to extend and snatch /pressure qbs and rbs. of course, he has that great first step/ burst. He is paper thin -- like a cheetah. If he stays healthy -- he will be a 10 sack guy every season of his career. He will be like Jevon Kearse IMO.

 

Mario Williams is a totally different player. Williams is VERY physical and gets into the middle of guards and tackles and drives them off the line. Mario is like reggie white with his great first push and explosion off the line. white later developed arm moves (swim/ hump move, chucks) and that made him a legend. Mario is getting bigger ever year...