bills44 Posted May 6, 2009 Share Posted May 6, 2009 http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writ...kies/index.html 3. James Hardy, WR, Buffalo The Bills thought they satisfied their long-standing need for a big receiver last year when they drafted Hardy in the second round (41st overall) out of Indiana. But he caught just nine passes for 87 yards and two touchdowns in 14 games, ending the season on injured reserve after tearing his ACL in Week 15. His rehab has been ahead of schedule, and Hardy might be ready to play in time for Buffalo's final preseason game. In the meantime, the Bills went out and got themselves another big receiver this offseason. A guy by the name of Terrell Owens, who promptly took Hardy's No. 81, with Hardy switching to No. 84. Shouldn't Gholston be near the top of this list, instead of at #14? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DDD Posted May 6, 2009 Share Posted May 6, 2009 http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writ...kies/index.html 3. James Hardy, WR, Buffalo The Bills thought they satisfied their long-standing need for a big receiver last year when they drafted Hardy in the second round (41st overall) out of Indiana. But he caught just nine passes for 87 yards and two touchdowns in 14 games, ending the season on injured reserve after tearing his ACL in Week 15. His rehab has been ahead of schedule, and Hardy might be ready to play in time for Buffalo's final preseason game. In the meantime, the Bills went out and got themselves another big receiver this offseason. A guy by the name of Terrell Owens, who promptly took Hardy's No. 81, with Hardy switching to No. 84. Shouldn't Gholston be near the top of this list, instead of at #14? Hardy=bust. Take it to the bank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEAST MODE BABY! Posted May 6, 2009 Share Posted May 6, 2009 Hardy=bust. Take it to the bank. Did you say the same about Moulds? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan Trapped in Pats Land Posted May 6, 2009 Share Posted May 6, 2009 Gholston should be #1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOBILLS78 Posted May 6, 2009 Share Posted May 6, 2009 Hardy=bust. Take it to the bank. Do you even qualify to be a bust if you're picked in the second round? I don't think so. Are Ryan Denney and Chris Kelsay busts? No. They're just abject failures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bills_fan Posted May 6, 2009 Share Posted May 6, 2009 Reading this list of mostly 1st and 2nd roudners makes me wonder why we get so hyped up for the draft. I was hoping we would get some of those guys and they turned out to contribute very little. Some of them will be decent in time, but I think its rare for rookies to come in and make a huge impact on your team (other than at RB, and perhaps CB). I know there are many obvious exceptions, but it always seems like the draft is a 50/50 proposition and free agency or a trade is the better route many times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOKBILLS Posted May 6, 2009 Share Posted May 6, 2009 Gholston should be #1 Yep... And as far as Hardy goes...I was watching "Hard Knocks" the other night and enjoying that little one-on-one battle T.O. and Pacman were having in Camp...I noticed something about TO that made me immediately question whether or not Hardy can be a successful big Wide-Out in the NFL...TO is willing to mix it up physically to get that little positional advantage, and He's won a decent amount of those battles over the years...Hardy is going to have to get some toughness into his Game in a hurry to make it in this league...At times, to me at least, Hardy looks a bit clumsy...He's REAL tall, and unless he learns the hand game well enough these compact, powerful NFL CB's are going to get under his pads inside 5 Yards and it's going to be over... Hopefully Hardy can learn a thing or two from TO over the next Season...His off-the-field reputation aside, I'm not sure there can be a better example of what Hardy must become on-the-field than TO...I thought Hardy was by far the best WR in the 08 Class, and I was thrilled when The Bills picked him...I was not at all impressed by what I saw in 08, then he gets the knee...I would be shocked if 09 was much more than a Red Shirt year for James...But if he digs down and uses this time to get stronger and better, he may be the answer to the "What's up with the one year deal" question... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GR8PRKN Posted May 6, 2009 Share Posted May 6, 2009 Did you say the same about Moulds? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted May 6, 2009 Share Posted May 6, 2009 Reading this list of mostly 1st and 2nd roudners makes me wonder why we get so hyped up for the draft. I was hoping we would get some of those guys and they turned out to contribute very little. Some of them will be decent in time, but I think its rare for rookies to come in and make a huge impact on your team (other than at RB, and perhaps CB). I know there are many obvious exceptions, but it always seems like the draft is a 50/50 proposition and free agency or a trade is the better route many times. The problem lies in how their college skillset translates to the NFL... for instance, if you are just more athletic than the players you are facing in college, many times that allows you to not work on your positional development since you have no need to. If you can beat the guy with the same move every time, why bother working on new moves. When they get to the NFL however, they soon realize they are facing athletes just as good if not better virtually every week. Their one move will no longer work since it will be studied and picked apart by opposing teams and coaches. They now need to either develop other moves and learn how to actually play the position or they risk becoming "busts". So basically what drafted players have to do is learn a whole new set of skills for the NFL game. Teams draft players based a lot on their athleticism with the hopes it will make it easier for them to translate their college game and pick up the pro game. After all, players that are able to athletically do what others cannot have a much greater upside than less athletic payers. On the flip side, many times the less athletic players have to know how to play their positions much better in college because their success depends on them taking the right angles, making the right moves, and playing with better technique. These type of players will likely become average to solid pros. However, noone wants an average to solid pro with their first round pick----they want a guy that has the potential to turn into a superstar pro bowler, which lesser athletes, or at least perceived lesser athletes, likely do not have. So in the end, a team is willing to sacrifice guys that have a high percentage of being average to slightly above average pros, with a low chance of becoming a bust for players that are high risk but high reward also. It would be like asking someone would you trade in a 70% chance of winning a thousand dollars for a 20% chance of winning ten thousand dollars. The reward of taking a "super athlete" is much higher than taking a lesser athlete but better football player. The thinking is that coaches can always help a player become a better football player, but the coaches cannot teach a player how to become a better athlete. That is something you either have or you don't... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ans4e64 Posted May 6, 2009 Share Posted May 6, 2009 That is a horrible list. 1.) Campbell? Seriously? Why does he need to step up? He's not filling the shoes of anyone important, and him playing well vs. not isn't going to make or break Arizona's defense. 2.) How does Doucet need to step up, he's the 4th WR on the depth chart! Fitzgerald is there, Boldin's back, and Breaston is one of the top producing 3rd WR's in this league. Doucet doesn't even need to touch the field. 3.) Same here. Why does Hardy need to step up, he's like 9th on the depth chart. We signed T.O., we don't need Hardy to be the 2nd receiver anymore this year. Jesus. 4.) The Bears signed Orlando Pace and Kevin Schaffer, Williams doesn't need to step up. If he can, it's gravy, but not necessary. I could keep going on. That is a horrible list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VOR Posted May 6, 2009 Share Posted May 6, 2009 That is a horrible list. 1.) Campbell? Seriously? Why does he need to step up? He's not filling the shoes of anyone important, and him playing well vs. not isn't going to make or break Arizona's defense. 2.) How does Doucet need to step up, he's the 4th WR on the depth chart! Fitzgerald is there, Boldin's back, and Breaston is one of the top producing 3rd WR's in this league. Doucet doesn't even need to touch the field. 3.) Same here. Why does Hardy need to step up, he's like 9th on the depth chart. We signed T.O., we don't need Hardy to be the 2nd receiver anymore this year. Jesus. 4.) The Bears signed Orlando Pace and Kevin Schaffer, Williams doesn't need to step up. If he can, it's gravy, but not necessary. I could keep going on. That is a horrible list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rpcolosi Posted May 6, 2009 Share Posted May 6, 2009 http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writ...kies/index.html 3. James Hardy, WR, Buffalo The Bills thought they satisfied their long-standing need for a big receiver last year when they drafted Hardy in the second round (41st overall) out of Indiana. But he caught just nine passes for 87 yards and two touchdowns in 14 games, ending the season on injured reserve after tearing his ACL in Week 15. His rehab has been ahead of schedule, and Hardy might be ready to play in time for Buffalo's final preseason game. In the meantime, the Bills went out and got themselves another big receiver this offseason. A guy by the name of Terrell Owens, who promptly took Hardy's No. 81, with Hardy switching to No. 84. Shouldn't Gholston be near the top of this list, instead of at #14? DEs and WR are known to be slow, slow developers. This is a stupid list. Take Moulds for example, took him forever to live up to his 1st round potential. He ended up being a stud. Likewise with a LOT of DE's. Mario Williams is a perfect example. Few guys have stud first years like Kearse or Bruce... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2020 Our Year For Sure Posted May 6, 2009 Share Posted May 6, 2009 The problem lies in how their college skillset translates to the NFL... for instance, if you are just more athletic than the players you are facing in college, many times that allows you to not work on your positional development since you have no need to. If you can beat the guy with the same move every time, why bother working on new moves. When they get to the NFL however, they soon realize they are facing athletes just as good if not better virtually every week. Their one move will no longer work since it will be studied and picked apart by opposing teams and coaches. They now need to either develop other moves and learn how to actually play the position or they risk becoming "busts". Great post, matter. This is why you're seeing such an emphasis on "character" these days. Teams realize they need to try to get inside the heads of these athletic, high risk/high reward-type players. They need to take an educated guess at which ones have the dedication and attitude necessary to better learn their position in order to be successful at the next level. Some guys, like John McCargo, will never fully dedicate themselves to their craft and will never sniff at the potential that their athleticism gives them. Figuring out which guys have the right mindset for the job is an extremely difficult task, I'd imagine, but its more important than an extra couple tenths of a second on the stopwatch. Lets hope that, mentally, Aaron Maybin has what it takes. We know he has the measurables. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metzelaars_lives Posted May 6, 2009 Share Posted May 6, 2009 Shouldn't Gholston be near the top of this list, instead of at #14? Hey morons, the list is obviously in alphabetical order of the teams. Can't wait for training camp so there's actually something to talk about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bills44 Posted May 6, 2009 Author Share Posted May 6, 2009 Hey morons, the list is obviously in alphabetical order of the teams. Can't wait for training camp so there's actually something to talk about. Sorry, Pete....no offense intended Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CFLstyle Posted May 6, 2009 Share Posted May 6, 2009 Hardy=bust. Take it to the bank. Thank you for that wonderful contribution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metzelaars_lives Posted May 6, 2009 Share Posted May 6, 2009 Sorry, Pete....no offense intended Sorry dude, I got your first beer next time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Capolupo Posted May 6, 2009 Share Posted May 6, 2009 Hardy doesn't need to prove much really. I don't know if he was expected to be anything more than a red zone WR in the first place. The offensive coordinator is the one that needs to prove he can call plays to fit his players strengths IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted May 6, 2009 Share Posted May 6, 2009 Hardy doesn't need to prove much really. I don't know if he was expected to be anything more than a red zone WR in the first place. The offensive coordinator is the one that needs to prove he can call plays to fit his players strengths IMO. I agree on this one. If you watched Plaxico Burress and the success he had in this league it was clear that he ran patterns which suited his strengths. With a big, long guy like Burress or Hardy, you don't want them doing a lot of cutting and changing direction. Hardy is big and has good straight line speed. He can jump well. You can let him do what he does best or make him conform to some convention as to what you think a wide receiver is supposed to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan_34 Posted May 6, 2009 Share Posted May 6, 2009 Do you even qualify to be a bust if you're picked in the second round? I don't think so. Are Ryan Denney and Chris Kelsay busts? No. They're just abject failures. Whats the difference between the second and first round? Answer....not a whole heck of alot except for the first rd contract a player gets. Second rounders should be high production players. Their is thousands of college players trying to make it to the ranks of the NFL. Rd 2 is supposed to be the 33rd to the 64th best players in the country. I would definitely say Kelsay and Denney are busts! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsfaninFl Posted May 6, 2009 Share Posted May 6, 2009 The problem lies in how their college skillset translates to the NFL... for instance, if you are just more athletic than the players you are facing in college, many times that allows you to not work on your positional development since you have no need to. If you can beat the guy with the same move every time, why bother working on new moves. When they get to the NFL however, they soon realize they are facing athletes just as good if not better virtually every week. Their one move will no longer work since it will be studied and picked apart by opposing teams and coaches. They now need to either develop other moves and learn how to actually play the position or they risk becoming "busts". So basically what drafted players have to do is learn a whole new set of skills for the NFL game. Teams draft players based a lot on their athleticism with the hopes it will make it easier for them to translate their college game and pick up the pro game. After all, players that are able to athletically do what others cannot have a much greater upside than less athletic payers. On the flip side, many times the less athletic players have to know how to play their positions much better in college because their success depends on them taking the right angles, making the right moves, and playing with better technique. These type of players will likely become average to solid pros. However, noone wants an average to solid pro with their first round pick----they want a guy that has the potential to turn into a superstar pro bowler, which lesser athletes, or at least perceived lesser athletes, likely do not have. So in the end, a team is willing to sacrifice guys that have a high percentage of being average to slightly above average pros, with a low chance of becoming a bust for players that are high risk but high reward also. It would be like asking someone would you trade in a 70% chance of winning a thousand dollars for a 20% chance of winning ten thousand dollars. The reward of taking a "super athlete" is much higher than taking a lesser athlete but better football player. The thinking is that coaches can always help a player become a better football player, but the coaches cannot teach a player how to become a better athlete. That is something you either have or you don't... Great analysis. Nice post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Preston Ridlehuber Posted May 6, 2009 Share Posted May 6, 2009 DEs and WR are known to be slow, slow developers. This is a stupid list. Take Moulds for example, took him forever to live up to his 1st round potential. He ended up being a stud. Likewise with a LOT of DE's. Mario Williams is a perfect example. Few guys have stud first years like Kearse or Bruce... If you are talking about Smith, he was hardly a stud his first year, which I guess makes your point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted May 6, 2009 Share Posted May 6, 2009 Hardy=bust. Take it to the bank. Hardy had two things against him. 1 was his injury, 2 was he had Losman as QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalonian-at-Heart Posted May 6, 2009 Share Posted May 6, 2009 Hardy=bust. Take it to the bank. Yeah we should have taken Sweed, Thomas, or Kelly. They were forces last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalonian-at-Heart Posted May 6, 2009 Share Posted May 6, 2009 Reading this list of mostly 1st and 2nd roudners makes me wonder why we get so hyped up for the draft. I was hoping we would get some of those guys and they turned out to contribute very little. Some of them will be decent in time, but I think its rare for rookies to come in and make a huge impact on your team (other than at RB, and perhaps CB). I know there are many obvious exceptions, but it always seems like the draft is a 50/50 proposition and free agency or a trade is the better route many times. So using your math of a 50/50 chance a rookie works out and with the Bills drafting 8 players that would give us 4 that contribute. I will take those odds over a high priced free agent working out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1billsfan Posted May 6, 2009 Share Posted May 6, 2009 Hey, let's take a look at the wonderful accomplishments of the Patriots' 2nd round 2008 pick, shall we.... http://www.nfl.com/players/shawncrable/gamelogs?id=CRA050645 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloPride Posted May 6, 2009 Share Posted May 6, 2009 If you are talking about Smith, he was hardly a stud his first year, which I guess makes your point. Smith had 6.5 sacks and recovered 4 fumbles his first year. Those are pretty good numbers for a rookie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H2o Posted May 6, 2009 Share Posted May 6, 2009 http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writ...kies/index.html 3. James Hardy, WR, Buffalo The Bills thought they satisfied their long-standing need for a big receiver last year when they drafted Hardy in the second round (41st overall) out of Indiana. But he caught just nine passes for 87 yards and two touchdowns in 14 games, ending the season on injured reserve after tearing his ACL in Week 15. His rehab has been ahead of schedule, and Hardy might be ready to play in time for Buffalo's final preseason game. In the meantime, the Bills went out and got themselves another big receiver this offseason. A guy by the name of Terrell Owens, who promptly took Hardy's No. 81, with Hardy switching to No. 84. Shouldn't Gholston be near the top of this list, instead of at #14? This list is complete crap. Being he's a "sports reporter" he should actually know who is EXPECTED to make an immediate impact for their team and who is being brought along slowly. Our staff is OBVIOUSLY bringing Hardy along slowly. Devin Thomas has more to prove than Hardy this year, IMO, and this goof has him listed at #20? There are atleast 9 more players, that I count, that should be ahead of Hardy on this list. Gholston SURELY should be #1 being he was the least productive "Top Ten" selection. Why is Henne even on this list? The Fins likely will not be his team until next year and then the pressure is on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steely Dan Posted May 6, 2009 Share Posted May 6, 2009 Hardy=bust. Take it to the bank. Your bank has very little interest. Yep... And as far as Hardy goes...I was watching "Hard Knocks" the other night and enjoying that little one-on-one battle T.O. and Pacman were having in Camp...I noticed something about TO that made me immediately question whether or not Hardy can be a successful big Wide-Out in the NFL...TO is willing to mix it up physically to get that little positional advantage, and He's won a decent amount of those battles over the years...Hardy is going to have to get some toughness into his Game in a hurry to make it in this league...At times, to me at least, Hardy looks a bit clumsy...He's REAL tall, and unless he learns the hand game well enough these compact, powerful NFL CB's are going to get under his pads inside 5 Yards and it's going to be over... Hopefully Hardy can learn a thing or two from TO over the next Season...His off-the-field reputation aside, I'm not sure there can be a better example of what Hardy must become on-the-field than TO...I thought Hardy was by far the best WR in the 08 Class, and I was thrilled when The Bills picked him...I was not at all impressed by what I saw in 08, then he gets the knee...I would be shocked if 09 was much more than a Red Shirt year for James...But if he digs down and uses this time to get stronger and better, he may be the answer to the "What's up with the one year deal" question... The most important thing, IMO, is for Hardy to learn about off season conditioning from TO. TO has always been in fantastic shape. DEs and WR are known to be slow, slow developers. This is a stupid list. Take Moulds for example, took him forever to live up to his 1st round potential. He ended up being a stud. Likewise with a LOT of DE's. Mario Williams is a perfect example. Few guys have stud first years like Kearse or Bruce... Moulds first three years: 1996: 16 games with 5 starts. 20 receptions for 279 yards, 14.0 average. 2 TD's 1997: 16 games with 8 starts. 29 receptions for 294 yards, 10.1 average. 0 TD's 1998: 16 games with 15 starts. 67 receptions for 1,358 yards, 20.4 average. 9 TD's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted May 6, 2009 Share Posted May 6, 2009 ...The most important thing, IMO, is for Hardy to learn about off season conditioning from TO. TO has always been in fantastic shape... Yep. And paying the price might be the single most difficult thing for a young player to accept. Conditioning is all about hard work in the off hours when nobody's watching. It's about taking care of yourself nutrionally. It's about sacrifice and discipline. And that ALL comes down to heart. People can say what they want about TO but you can't question his heart. I'm thinking Hardy just may have the stuff. He's said to be ahead of schedule in his re-hab. And, as many can attest to around here, re-habbing is about heart as well. Tearing scar tissue and rebuilding strength and range of motion is a painful experience to work through. Now, if he can learn a few things about route running from Evans and Reed and run blocking from Reed and TO in addition to the conditioning, we just might have a player. GO BILLS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonidas Posted May 6, 2009 Share Posted May 6, 2009 Yep... And as far as Hardy goes...I was watching "Hard Knocks" the other night and enjoying that little one-on-one battle T.O. and Pacman were having in Camp...I noticed something about TO that made me immediately question whether or not Hardy can be a successful big Wide-Out in the NFL...TO is willing to mix it up physically to get that little positional advantage, and He's won a decent amount of those battles over the years...Hardy is going to have to get some toughness into his Game in a hurry to make it in this league...At times, to me at least, Hardy looks a bit clumsy...He's REAL tall, and unless he learns the hand game well enough these compact, powerful NFL CB's are going to get under his pads inside 5 Yards and it's going to be over... Hopefully Hardy can learn a thing or two from TO over the next Season...His off-the-field reputation aside, I'm not sure there can be a better example of what Hardy must become on-the-field than TO...I thought Hardy was by far the best WR in the 08 Class, and I was thrilled when The Bills picked him...I was not at all impressed by what I saw in 08, then he gets the knee...I would be shocked if 09 was much more than a Red Shirt year for James...But if he digs down and uses this time to get stronger and better, he may be the answer to the "What's up with the one year deal" question... Okay I think it's time someone sat you down and talked to you about capitalization and ellipses... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramius Posted May 6, 2009 Share Posted May 6, 2009 This list is complete crap. Being he's a "sports reporter" he should actually know who is EXPECTED to make an immediate impact for their team and who is being brought along slowly. Our staff is OBVIOUSLY bringing Hardy along slowly. Devin Thomas has more to prove than Hardy this year, IMO, and this goof has him listed at #20? There are atleast 9 more players, that I count, that should be ahead of Hardy on this list. Gholston SURELY should be #1 being he was the least productive "Top Ten" selection. Why is Henne even on this list? The Fins likely will not be his team until next year and then the pressure is on. Umm, as was noted prior, the list was alphabetically by team, not a ranking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Preston Ridlehuber Posted May 6, 2009 Share Posted May 6, 2009 Smith had 6.5 sacks and recovered 4 fumbles his first year. Those are pretty good numbers for a rookie. Kelsay had 5.5 sacks his rookie year and people are calling him a bust. If you were around for Smith's first year, you will remember he was benched his first year and while he did have 6.5 sacks, he was hardly dominant and quickly realized he needed to get himself into shape and re-dedicate himself to be the greatest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperKillerRobots Posted May 6, 2009 Share Posted May 6, 2009 Hey, let's take a look at the wonderful accomplishments of the Patriots' 2nd round 2008 pick, shall we.... http://www.nfl.com/players/shawncrable/gamelogs?id=CRA050645 Way to put this whole thing into perspective! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkyMannn Posted May 6, 2009 Share Posted May 6, 2009 Hey, let's take a look at the wonderful accomplishments of the Patriots' 2nd round 2008 pick, shall we.... http://www.nfl.com/players/shawncrable/gamelogs?id=CRA050645 OK, when we go to as many Super Bowls as the Pats this past decade, I'll laugh at them. But we haven't been to the playoffs this decade, so I see nothing wrong with fans raising the expectations of EVERY Bills player including Hardy. Time to step it up! No Bill should get a free pass any more. That's why we have 3 straight years of 7-9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1billsfan Posted May 6, 2009 Share Posted May 6, 2009 OK, when we go to as many Super Bowls as the Pats this past decade, I'll laugh at them. But we haven't been to the playoffs this decade, so I see nothing wrong with fans raising the expectations of EVERY Bills player including Hardy. Time to step it up! No Bill should get a free pass any more. That's why we have 3 straight years of 7-9 I wasn't laughing at the Patriots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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