Kelsay too?

[HurlyBurly51]

What do we do with Owens? Was he brought in for window dressing or did we just change plans on the fly? Are we trying to win this year or not. I'm getting mixed signals.

 

Well said. Either way, not a good state of affairs for the FO. We bring in TO which obviously says win now and save DJs job, but we are in full rebuild mode with salary dumps and stockpiling draft picks. Who's running the show over there at OBD? Sounds like a schizophreniac. This JP situation can't be a surprise to anybody there. Why not just blow the thing up and bring in a new coach from the get go. Now we have to waste another season, bring in a new coach and system, requiring different personnel (which may render all these draft picks useless), yaddayaddayadda.

[BLZFAN4LIFE]

Well said. Either way, not a good state of affairs for the FO. We bring in TO which obviously says win now and save DJs job, but we are in full rebuild mode with salary dumps and stockpiling draft picks. Who's running the show over there at OBD? Sounds like a schizophreniac. This JP situation can't be a surprise to anybody there. Why not just blow the thing up and bring in a new coach from the get go. Now we have to waste another season, bring in a new coach and system, requiring different personnel (which may render all these draft picks useless), yaddayaddayadda.

 

 

T.O. was brought in to appease the disgruntled fan base, sell tickets, and merchandise. It was a marketing decision that had nothing to do with competing for wins.

[HurlyBurly51]

T.O. was brought in to appease the disgruntled fan base, sell tickets, and merchandise. It was a marketing decision that had nothing to do with competing for wins.

 

I don't necessarily disagree with you, but I think if they were committed to winning this year and didn't dismantle their OL and create new holes which will now have to be addressed through the draft instead of filling previously existing holes, they could've been successful with TO. But now with rebuild mode upon us, what's the point? Trent won't survive behind whatever they put out there. It's just idiotic to begin rebuilding with a coach you know isn't going to be here. After a wasted season and a new coach, it kinda makes all these draft picks they're stockpiling useless, as they won't be "his guys" and don't know if they'll necessarily fit whatever system he'll bring with him. Then again, they'll probably keep DJ for "continuity."

[Alphadawg7]

T.O. was brought in to appease the disgruntled fan base, sell tickets, and merchandise. It was a marketing decision that had nothing to do with competing for wins.

 

Thats such BS...no way the FO takes the risk of the damage TO could cause to our young fragile QB that they hope can develop into our franchise QB just to sell tickets...

 

Man, the fans on this board come up with some doozies...

 

The side effect is lots of press, but rest assured, they won't risk Edwards future to only sell tickets...

 

People who say crap like this have never played football...there isnt a guy in that locker room or sideline that doesnt want to win...there isnt a guy in the FO that doesnt want to win...winning allows people to keep their jobs...our team is promising enough that with some moves we will be a playoff team....they arent just gonna say the hell with it.

 

[Alphadawg7]

I don't necessarily disagree with you, but I think if they were committed to winning this year and didn't dismantle their OL and create new holes which will now have to be addressed through the draft instead of filling previously existing holes, they could've been successful with TO. But now with rebuild mode upon us, what's the point? Trent won't survive behind whatever they put out there. It's just idiotic to begin rebuilding with a coach you know isn't going to be here. After a wasted season and a new coach, it kinda makes all these draft picks they're stockpiling useless, as they won't be "his guys" and don't know if they'll necessarily fit whatever system he'll bring with him. Then again, they'll probably keep DJ for "continuity."

 

More rebuild non sense...fans here are hilarious

 

[Virgil]

Is there a single poster on this site that wants Kelsey on the Bills? I've seen a fair share of disliked players in the past, but Kelsey may be the first one that has everyone against him. Rob Royal too I guess - losing these guys truly is the epitome of addition by subtraction.

 

Robert Royal would actually single handed lose us games with a key drop. The guy just pissed me off with his play. Kelsay got a fairly large contract out of nowhere, forced us to then re-negotiate with Schobel, and does nothing on the field. When Schobel went down, you still never heard Kelsay's name on the field. Then, he had the balls to make the statement to the media that the Pass Rush needs to be a major focus of the FO, forgetting that that was supposed to be his job. People don't hate Denney because he is paid to fit, and plays to fit, his role. Kelsay gets paid like and talks like a influential starter, when he is neither.

 

If there is something else I'm missing, please feel free to chime in.

[HurlyBurly51]

Thats such BS...no way the FO takes the risk of the damage TO could cause to our young fragile QB that they hope can develop into our franchise QB just to sell tickets...

 

Man, the fans on this board come up with some doozies...

 

The side effect is lots of press, but rest assured, they won't risk Edwards future to only sell tickets...

 

People who say crap like this have never played football...there isnt a guy in that locker room or sideline that doesnt want to win...there isnt a guy in the FO that doesnt want to win...winning allows people to keep their jobs...our team is promising enough that with some moves we will be a playoff team....they arent just gonna say the hell with it.

 

 

Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain...just keep buying the mechandise.

[hotwing]

T.O. was brought in to appease the disgruntled fan base, sell tickets, and merchandise. It was a marketing decision that had nothing to do with competing for wins.

 

 

38 td's and 3,500 receiving yards in the last 3 years

 

PLS STFU

[Nick in RaChaCha]

:wallbash:

 

What can they get for a pass rusher who can't rush the passer and falls for every change of direction play?

LOL

[Captain Quint]

:wallbash:

 

What can they get for a pass rusher who can't rush the passer and falls for every change of direction play?

 

[SKOOBY]

38 td's and 3,500 receiving yards in the last 3 years

 

PLS STFU

 

 

+1.

[robkmil]

:wallbash:

 

What can they get for a pass rusher who can't rush the passer and falls for every change of direction play?

 

I hope some team values him, but i don't see us getting much.

[LabattBlue]

But the seats would be empty

The seats have been close to full for the last decade with the Bills sucking hind tit. Making some changes to remove underachievers and malcontents can only be seen as a positive from most Bills fans.

 

If the Bills can find a sucker to take on Kelsay's salary AND give us a pick in return(I'll take a 4, 5 or even a 6), it will be a great move.

[BLZFAN4LIFE]

38 td's and 3,500 receiving yards in the last 3 years

 

PLS STFU

 

 

...So perhaps I shouldn't have said "T.O.'s signing had nothing to do with competing for wins". The fact is though, the move WAS primarily a marketing ploy. If you are unable to see that Ralph Wilson is more concerned about the bottom line than the win/loss column, you're not paying attention. Peters and Dockery, two of our best three O-linemen from last season, are gone. The whole left side of the line will have to be rebuilt, so the replacement roller coaster continues. If we don't successfully replace Peters and Dockery, as well as add depth, you could have 4 T.O.'s and it wouldn't make a difference. Trent will not find anyone from his back or on the sideline.

 

PLS SMD

[Sisyphean Bills]

:wallbash:

 

What can they get for a pass rusher who can't rush the passer and falls for every change of direction play?

Past considerations. Maybe.

[Sisyphean Bills]

clean house.. this is the way to go.. cut all the fat and dead weight

True. We still have work to do to reach rock bottom.

[BLZFAN4LIFE]

True. We still have work to do to reach rock bottom.

 

Looking at the shape the Pats, 'Fins, and Jets are in, we're falling quickly.

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

Hell, just release Kelsay. You do that, and we'll consider this Peters thing a wash.

Agreed.

[BillsVet]

When Kelsay was re-signed, and admittedly it's easy to say now, I didn't like the move. He was on the verge of UFA, teams were apparently looking at him, and Marv forked over 4 yrs 23M. I don't think most people figured he was worth it.

 

Looking back, it's another case of making one move which necessitates another. Schobel then needed a deal as well, despite having multiple years on his contract. Marv then signed Dockery, precipitating the Peters thing, and the rest is history.

 

If the Bills trade Kelsay, it's yet another indication that Marv Levy and the circle jerks had no idea what they were doing. Unfortunately, the only person not in the front office now is Marv. All the same people, regardless of a track record worse than a NY Governor, still make decisions.

[timba]

I would be giddy to see this team get out from under the huge contract they gave that wacky waiving inflatable arm flailing tube man. If we could trade him for a bag of popcorn I'd be psyched!

[ax4782]

...So perhaps I shouldn't have said "T.O.'s signing had nothing to do with competing for wins". The fact is though, the move WAS primarily a marketing ploy. If you are unable to see that Ralph Wilson is more concerned about the bottom line than the win/loss column, you're not paying attention. Peters and Dockery, two of our best three O-linemen from last season, are gone. The whole left side of the line will have to be rebuilt, so the replacement roller coaster continues. If we don't successfully replace Peters and Dockery, as well as add depth, you could have 4 T.O.'s and it wouldn't make a difference. Trent will not find anyone from his back or on the sideline.

 

PLS SMD

 

Having a winning team is the best marketing ploy and Ralph knows that. Every team knows that. You're either in a Big Market and just have great marketing by virtue of that fact, or you win games. Take NE for example. You think they had a huge following in the early 90s when they were losing all of those games. You think the Detroit Lions have a huge following of fans and merchandise sales? People in Detroit are embarrassed to root for the Lions, let alone people living outside of Detroit. Anytime you bring in someone who can help the team win, it's a marketing ploy. The two facts don't have to be mutually exclusive or have one be the bigger purpose. They want to do both.

 

As for Dockery and Peters being two of our best three linemen, I disagree. Butler and Walker played much better through the course of last season than either of them did. The statistics show it. We ran better to the right side last year. The right side gave up far fewer sacks than the left side of the line after week one when Peters was back at LT. Dockery consistently got blown up by smaller DL players and simply could not get it together in the running game. Considering that Preston and Fowler were so bad that whichever one of them played they would be the fifth best lineman on the team, by default either Peters or Dockery were our third best starters on the line. But that doesn't say much. We've gotten better at C with the signing of Hangartner and I don't think the Bills are done in FA. I strongly believe that we will sign Kendall Simmons at G and draft a very good LT prospect with the #11 pick. There are a lot of solid DE prospects that are likely to be available with the #28 pick, such as Ayers and Johnson, so Buffalo is probably going to be able to fill a lot of these voids. I also wouldn't count out Buffalo trying to move up in the first round from #28 if a player they want is available as the first round progresses. Let's try to keep the pessimism to a minimum until we see what the team looks like in training camp and the preseason.

[rpcolosi]

I would be giddy to see this team get out from under the huge contract they gave that wacky waiving inflatable arm flailing tube man. If we could trade him for a bag of popcorn I'd be psyched!

 

 

for all the crap we give kelsay... Scouts Inc seems to think he is a solid player.

 

 

Comment: Kelsay is a five-year veteran that has been extremely consistent and durable defender for the Bills. He has average size, good athleticism and plays with a high motor. He is a tough, competitive player who is a sound technician. He has great initial quickness to close ground and get into blockers early in the play. He reads and reacts quickly as well as using his hands effectively to maintain leverage in his gap responsibility. He anticipates well and can gain an advantage as a pass-rusher on long-yardage situations. Kelsay isn't a powerful player, but he has enough strength and uses effective pad level to anchor well versus the run. He is a fluid athlete who uses excellent lateral quickness and agility to chase down plays from the backside. He runs well and shows good range to stay active to the pile. He has a variety of pass-rush moves and counters, but he doesn't reset well if engaged early in the play. He is more of a finesse player than a power defender who is best when on the move. Kelsay continues to be a productive player with effort, instincts, technique and quickness.

[cåblelady]

Who would do the Celino & Barnes commercials? (hehe)

[timba]

for all the crap we give kelsay... Scouts Inc seems to think he is a solid player.

 

 

Comment: Kelsay is a five-year veteran that has been extremely consistent and durable defender for the Bills. He has average size, good athleticism and plays with a high motor. He is a tough, competitive player who is a sound technician. He has great initial quickness to close ground and get into blockers early in the play. He reads and reacts quickly as well as using his hands effectively to maintain leverage in his gap responsibility. He anticipates well and can gain an advantage as a pass-rusher on long-yardage situations. Kelsay isn't a powerful player, but he has enough strength and uses effective pad level to anchor well versus the run. He is a fluid athlete who uses excellent lateral quickness and agility to chase down plays from the backside. He runs well and shows good range to stay active to the pile. He has a variety of pass-rush moves and counters, but he doesn't reset well if engaged early in the play. He is more of a finesse player than a power defender who is best when on the move. Kelsay continues to be a productive player with effort, instincts, technique and quickness.

 

I read that and it STILL doesn't justify the contract he has. His play has been at about the same level as Denny and I doubt we'd see much of a drop off in the D-Line performance without him there. If we can get rid of him and open up some cap room for some players who DESERVE that money, I'm all for it.

[Buffaloed in Pa]

for all the crap we give kelsay... Scouts Inc seems to think he is a solid player.

 

 

Comment: Kelsay is a five-year veteran that has been extremely consistent and durable defender for the Bills. He has average size, good athleticism and plays with a high motor. He is a tough, competitive player who is a sound technician. He has great initial quickness to close ground and get into blockers early in the play. He reads and reacts quickly as well as using his hands effectively to maintain leverage in his gap responsibility. He anticipates well and can gain an advantage as a pass-rusher on long-yardage situations. Kelsay isn't a powerful player, but he has enough strength and uses effective pad level to anchor well versus the run. He is a fluid athlete who uses excellent lateral quickness and agility to chase down plays from the backside. He runs well and shows good range to stay active to the pile. He has a variety of pass-rush moves and counters, but he doesn't reset well if engaged early in the play. He is more of a finesse player than a power defender who is best when on the move. Kelsay continues to be a productive player with effort, instincts, technique and quickness.

Damn you found the player we are looking for . What was his name again. Giter done boys.

[keepthefaith]

Having a winning team is the best marketing ploy and Ralph knows that. Every team knows that. You're either in a Big Market and just have great marketing by virtue of that fact, or you win games. Take NE for example. You think they had a huge following in the early 90s when they were losing all of those games. You think the Detroit Lions have a huge following of fans and merchandise sales? People in Detroit are embarrassed to root for the Lions, let alone people living outside of Detroit. Anytime you bring in someone who can help the team win, it's a marketing ploy. The two facts don't have to be mutually exclusive or have one be the bigger purpose. They want to do both.

 

As for Dockery and Peters being two of our best three linemen, I disagree. Butler and Walker played much better through the course of last season than either of them did. The statistics show it. We ran better to the right side last year. The right side gave up far fewer sacks than the left side of the line after week one when Peters was back at LT. Dockery consistently got blown up by smaller DL players and simply could not get it together in the running game. Considering that Preston and Fowler were so bad that whichever one of them played they would be the fifth best lineman on the team, by default either Peters or Dockery were our third best starters on the line. But that doesn't say much. We've gotten better at C with the signing of Hangartner and I don't think the Bills are done in FA. I strongly believe that we will sign Kendall Simmons at G and draft a very good LT prospect with the #11 pick. There are a lot of solid DE prospects that are likely to be available with the #28 pick, such as Ayers and Johnson, so Buffalo is probably going to be able to fill a lot of these voids. I also wouldn't count out Buffalo trying to move up in the first round from #28 if a player they want is available as the first round progresses. Let's try to keep the pessimism to a minimum until we see what the team looks like in training camp and the preseason.

 

Cleaning house would be reason for great optimism. More of that would be a hopeful signal that Jauron is soon to go as well. Stockpile young talent for the next coach. A very good strategy for this season. '09 is a transition year for the Bills.

[In-A-Gadda-Levitre]

T.O. was brought in to appease the disgruntled fan base, sell tickets, and merchandise. It was a marketing decision that had nothing to do with competing for wins.

you're right...

 

The Bills don't need a legitimate #2 WR to stop double-coverage on Lee Evans, or to keep 8 men out of the box, or to open up the slot, or to add a viable red-zone target.

 

It's all about marketing and selling jerseys.

 

Do you lay awake at night thinking this stuff up?

[loyal2dagame]

...So perhaps I shouldn't have said "T.O.'s signing had nothing to do with competing for wins". The fact is though, the move WAS primarily a marketing ploy. If you are unable to see that Ralph Wilson is more concerned about the bottom line than the win/loss column, you're not paying attention. Peters and Dockery, two of our best three O-linemen from last season, are gone. The whole left side of the line will have to be rebuilt, so the replacement roller coaster continues. If we don't successfully replace Peters and Dockery, as well as add depth, you could have 4 T.O.'s and it wouldn't make a difference. Trent will not find anyone from his back or on the sideline.

 

PLS SMD

 

marketing......eh?

 

so lets pay owens 6.5 million for one year and we'll make crazy money.

 

lets get real about t.o.

 

here's some numbers for you to chew on before you say it's primarily marketing:

 

lets say owens sells 25000 bills jerseys with his name on it. thats only 1million in sales based on an average price of 40.00. out of that 1million, owens gets a cut, the nflpa gets a cut, the nfl gets a cut, and the bills get a cut. lets say, and this is far from correct, but lets say the bills get 50%= 500,000

 

second, ticket sales. lets say for the sake of arguement ownes causes the bills a gain of 10,000 ticket sales per reg season game at an average cost of 56.00(which would be impossible to gain based on past seasons' ticket sales as there has rarely been 10k of tickets available anyways). that is an increase of $560,000.00 per game which works out to $3,920,000 over the 7 games played in buffalo. out of that amount the bills have to give 40% to the nfl. that leaves 2,352,000 for the bills

 

third advertising:

lets say the bills make another 3million in advertising and other merchandise from signing owens

 

final total

the bills are still taking a loss on the contract.

 

so yeah, signing a player to 6.5 mil to maybe gain 5.8 million is all about marketing

[Erik]

Cleaning house would be reason for great optimism. More of that would be a hopeful signal that Jauron is soom to go as well. Stockpile young talent for the next coach. A very good strategy for this season. '09 is a transition year for the Bills.

 

 

Wasn't Brandon the one who wanted to kick Jauron to the curb? Maybe he was given assurances that if Jauron can't crack .500 again this season he'd be gone and Brandon is fixing to bring on his new coach after this year.

[Endless Ike]

What do we do with Owens? Was he brought in for window dressing or did we just change plans on the fly? Are we trying to win this year or not. I'm getting mixed signals.

 

 

it's almost like the people running the team have no idea what they're doing, isn't it?

[Cynical]

you're right...

 

The Bills don't need a legitimate #2 WR to stop double-coverage on Lee Evans, or to keep 8 men out of the box, or to open up the slot, or to add a viable red-zone target.

 

That's why they initially targeted Coles. He was supposed to be the guy. He basically told the Bills to off.

 

It's all about marketing and selling jerseys.

 

It was not about selling jerseys. It was about stopping the bleeding. Season ticket renewals were tanking. The Bills needed a marquee signing to stem the tide. It was fortunate TO just happened to be that player.

[BLZFAN4LIFE]

you're right...

 

The Bills don't need a legitimate #2 WR to stop double-coverage on Lee Evans, or to keep 8 men out of the box, or to open up the slot, or to add a viable red-zone target.

 

It's all about marketing and selling jerseys.

 

Do you lay awake at night thinking this stuff up?

 

... so I suppose T.O. doing interviews in Toronto and sitting court-side at a Raptors game was in order to keep 8 men out of the box and free up LE, and had nothing to do with marketing the Toronto transition eh? God, I swear with the intelligence level of most people on this board, it could be mistaken for an elementary school special needs class.

[BLZFAN4LIFE]

That's why they initially targeted Coles. He was supposed to be the guy. He basically told the Bills to off.

 

 

 

It was not about selling jerseys. It was about stopping the bleeding. Season ticket renewals were tanking. The Bills needed a marquee signing to stem the tide. It was fortunate TO just happened to be that player.

 

Wow! someone who gets it! I'm not alone!

[Steely Dan]

 

What can they get for a pass rusher who can't rush the passer and falls for every change of direction play?

 

I think he could get 4 UFA picks for Buffalo.

 

 

Hey maybe you could trade Parrish, Kelsay, 28, and next years 6th to Detroit for 20 you'd have a pretty good chance of getting Pettigrew or Ayers there.

 

You are aware that Millen is no longer the GM there. Right?

 

I don't necessarily disagree with you, but I think if they were committed to winning this year and didn't dismantle their OL and create new holes which will now have to be addressed through the draft instead of filling previously existing holes, they could've been successful with TO. But now with rebuild mode upon us, what's the point? Trent won't survive behind whatever they put out there. It's just idiotic to begin rebuilding with a coach you know isn't going to be here. After a wasted season and a new coach, it kinda makes all these draft picks they're stockpiling useless, as they won't be "his guys" and don't know if they'll necessarily fit whatever system he'll bring with him. Then again, they'll probably keep DJ for "continuity."

 

Yeah, they shouldn't draft any guys for that reason!!

 

 

...So perhaps I shouldn't have said "T.O.'s signing had nothing to do with competing for wins". The fact is though, the move WAS primarily a marketing ploy. If you are unable to see that Ralph Wilson is more concerned about the bottom line than the win/loss column, you're not paying attention. Peters and Dockery, two of our best three O-linemen from last season, are gone. The whole left side of the line will have to be rebuilt, so the replacement roller coaster continues. If we don't successfully replace Peters and Dockery, as well as add depth, you could have 4 T.O.'s and it wouldn't make a difference. Trent will not find anyone from his back or on the sideline.

 

PLS SMD

 

You really don't have a clue do you? Look at the contracts recently handed out and that proves you wrong.

[BLZFAN4LIFE]

I think he could get 4 UFA picks for Buffalo.

 

 

 

 

You are aware that Millen is no longer the GM there. Right?

 

 

 

Yeah, they shouldn't draft any guys for that reason!!

 

 

 

 

You really don't have a clue do you? Look at the contracts recently handed out and that proves you wrong.

Like Jauron's 3 year extension??

Try again fool.

[Steely Dan]

Like Jauron's 3 year extension?? laugh.gif

Try again fool.

 

Thanks, that one contract proves your point. I've been handily defeated!!

[BLZFAN4LIFE]

Thanks, that one contract proves your point. I've been handily defeated!!

 

At least you are noble in defeat.

[In-A-Gadda-Levitre]

... so I suppose T.O. doing interviews in Toronto and sitting court-side at a Raptors game was in order to keep 8 men out of the box and free up LE, and had nothing to do with marketing the Toronto transition eh? God, I swear with the intelligence level of most people on this board, it could be mistaken for an elementary school special needs class.

nice smokescreen...

 

so, in your view of the world, they signed TO for 1 year to sell seats and merchandise, as well as help them to move the team to Toronto, and they don't desperately need a #2 WR to open up their anemic offense? Which, by scoring points, would jumpstart all of the supposed marketing woes?

 

I don't suppose it occurred to you that just maybe TO would immediately step in and solve their offensive production problems and maybe inject some money into the franchise at the same time? naw

[In-A-Gadda-Levitre]

That's why they initially targeted Coles. He was supposed to be the guy. He basically told the Bills to off.

 

 

 

It was not about selling jerseys. It was about stopping the bleeding. Season ticket renewals were tanking. The Bills needed a marquee signing to stem the tide. It was fortunate TO just happened to be that player.

ya, they had a critical need for a legitimate #2 WR, that's the point.

 

selling jerseys, selling season tickets, filling seats, creating buzz - choose your financial outcome...is the secondary benefit, not the primary.

[BLZFAN4LIFE]

nice smokescreen...

 

so, in your view of the world, they signed TO for 1 year to sell seats and merchandise, as well as help them to move the team to Toronto, and they don't desperately need a #2 WR to open up their anemic offense? Which, by scoring points, would jumpstart all of the supposed marketing woes?

 

I don't suppose it occurred to you that just maybe TO would immediately step in and solve their offensive production problems and maybe inject some money into the franchise at the same time? naw

 

 

Had the Bills not laid an egg in a snooze-fest performance against Miami in Toronto and not mishandled the extension of a career losing HC, they would have never pulled the trigger on the $6 mil. PR stunt that was the T.O. signing. Any benefits from his presence are secondary to the PR role that T.O. served. More smoke and mirrors by Ralph Wilson to keep the sheep interested just enough. Also see Marv Levy as GM.