Kelly the Dog Posted March 21, 2009 Share Posted March 21, 2009 Let's put it this way. Parrish averaged 15+ yards a return last year. For those not paying attention, Roscoe Parrish is the #1 PR of all time in the history of the NFL. The fact that he is back there, considering his average combined with all the punts that are short or OB because the other team doesnt want to punt the ball to Roscoe Parrish means an additional 30 yards a game. If you added 30 yards a game to a RB because of Roscoe Parrish, suddenly a 1000 yard rusher becomes a 1480 yard rusher. An 800 yard rusher becomes a 1180 yard rusher. And that has nothing to do with what he can do as a WR which is woefully underutilized by the Bills staff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted March 21, 2009 Share Posted March 21, 2009 Maybe the Bills will get a first-round pick for Peters, but he isn't worth it. And that's an opinion based on talking to people who happen to make trades and hammer out contracts for a living. A first round pick is quite the broad range, wouldn't you say? It makes me wonder if these experts would say that while he isn't worth a first, he is worth the first pick of round 2. I think it is hard to guage a trade value in this instance because teams almost never trade their blue chip blockers, let alone left tackles. Would you agree with this? I know that Leon Gray was traded about 25 years ago. Willie Roaf too, but I seem to remember that there were some ugly personal issues wrt Roaf. Maybe I'm wrong. But, the fact remains that these guys are generally thought of as too valueable to trade. Gil Brandt is pretty smart too. He said a few days ago that after the quarterback, the most important positions on a football team are the left tackle and a defensive end who can rush the quarterback from the right side, and that those two are inter-changeable in terms of value. LTs fly off the board. It appears that at least 2 will go in the top 5. They will earn more than Peters before ever playing a down. They might be better than Peters too, or not half as good. Philly has 2 picks in the 20s, and will not have access to the top rated OTs. Most if not all of the players that they want at LT might very well be long gone. A first, for what little my opinion is worth, wouldn't be so outrageous to them if they like him as a player, and think that they can sign him. In my respectful opinion, the Bills will either get a first round pick for Peters or better yet, be smart enough not to trade him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted March 21, 2009 Share Posted March 21, 2009 Yeah, you're probably right. My sources don't know football. They just work for NFL teams and stuff. What I tried to express in my chat was that I don't personally think Peters is worth a first-round pick when a team can use that pick to draft a franchise tackle because a few exist in this year's draft just like they did in last year's. I don't see why a team would take on a tackle who's coming off a shaky season when they can grab a younger player they can mold. Peters wants the type of money No. 1 overall pick Jake Long got, so why not just draft one yourself and pay him less? And, believe it or not, teams will look at where a player was drafted when considering trades. Even though Peters is a two-time Pro Bowler, he was an undrafted, converted tight end. Trade partners aren't going to bend over backwards to reward the Bills and take a headache off their hands at the same time. But it takes only one team to really, really want a player. Maybe the Bills will get a first-round pick for Peters, but he isn't worth it. And that's an opinion based on talking to people who happen to make trades and hammer out contracts for a living. Thank you for the response, and the intent behind my comment wasn't to try to downplay your knowledge, but as another poster mentioned, the area of disagreement would be in your gauge of what other interested teams would be willing to give up to get a player like Peters. I had said in an earlier response, that you were much more in tune with what was happening than any of us, I think we all pretty much know that. But, if there was a team with an interest, wouldn't they want to downplay it or keep it as much of a secret as possible? I would think it would be counterproductive to publicly show an interest for a good player, at the risk of getting into a bidding war with another team. You do have a good argument about a team drafting a tackle as opposed to dealing with a possible headache. But, I think we've all seen that many GM's are willing to give the benefit of the doubt if they believe they can get a premier talented player. Also, as one of the posters mentioned earlier, when you draft a player, you don't know what your going to get, in Peters, even though it is not a lock, you know that he can play at a high level for the simple fact that he has done it before, and that has to weigh in the mind of a GM. But, I hope you are right, I hope that other teams don't value him as high as you do, because if that is the case, then team's probably won't want to offer him the sort of money that he is looking for, which would make the Bills his best option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lets_go_bills Posted March 21, 2009 Share Posted March 21, 2009 The Bills aren't going to carry all these WRs into the season, so you have to figure they'd sooner trade Parrish and get something for him as opposed to just releasing Jenkins. It makes sense, he has value and the Bills FO must be high on Hardy and Johnson as long-term solutions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuckincincy Posted March 21, 2009 Share Posted March 21, 2009 94 career punt returns remain 2nd on club all-time list… needs 6 to tie team record-holder Jeff Burris (100) Club-record PR yardage figure remains at 1,312 (2nd: Jeff Burris, 1,045) 322 PR yds. this season ranks 8th in club annals … Parrish owns 3 of top 8 PR yardage seasons in team history Career PR avg. of 13.96 remains 1st in club history (min. 20 returns), over #2 Clifford Hicks (12.00 [41-492]) Season PR avg. of 15.33 ranks 2nd in team history (min. 15 returns), behind his club-record 16.30 in 2007 I try to refrain from making much comment on individual Bills players, since I so seldom see their games. I do "watch" on the CSB Sportsline and nfl.com "Game Day", however. That gives one a pretty good picture of trends throughout the game - including starting field positions for both clubs. Without the consistent edge the Bills' special teams deliver, I wonder what their record would have been the past few years. Dispensing with Parrish makes no sense to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted March 21, 2009 Share Posted March 21, 2009 That seems odd to me. No doubt that Tim is much more in tune with what is happening than us. But, I would be surprised, and not in a good way, if he were to only fetch a second rounder. If that is the case, no way in hell do we accept it. Again, let's remember, the Bills FO are holding all the winning cards here. He is Obligated to play out his contract. If he doesn't then he doesn't get payed, and he has all ready shown that he won't let that happen. Most likely Peters will accept the contract we offer him, because it will be a whole hell of a lot more than what he is receiving now. Both sides have some cards. Peters could make the Bills next two years hell. He could hold out, even into the season this year, in a year that Jauron desperately needs. He's already proven his willingness to hold out and to not mind being a PR nightmare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fingon Posted March 21, 2009 Author Share Posted March 21, 2009 Both sides have some cards. Peters could make the Bills next two years hell. He could hold out, even into the season this year, in a year that Jauron desperately needs. He's already proven his willingness to hold out and to not mind being a PR nightmare. What would he gain by holding out? If history is any lesson, he would play like crap the next few years. He would then be a 30 year old Tackle who hasn't played well in 3+ years. No one will give him a big contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted March 21, 2009 Share Posted March 21, 2009 What would he gain by holding out? If history is any lesson, he would play like crap the next few years. He would then be a 30 year old Tackle who hasn't played well in 3+ years. No one will give him a big contract. That's a very good point Fingon. Then what would he have. He would have three straight hold outs, at a pay well below he was looking for, at the age of 30 with 3 mediocre years. Excellent point!! I absolutely believe we are holding all the cards here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted March 21, 2009 Share Posted March 21, 2009 http://www.stadiumwall.com/index.php?showt...0&hl=Roscoe Been sayin' it for awhile now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted March 21, 2009 Share Posted March 21, 2009 Yeah, you're probably right. My sources don't know football. They just work for NFL teams and stuff. What I tried to express in my chat was that I don't personally think Peters is worth a first-round pick when a team can use that pick to draft a franchise tackle because a few exist in this year's draft just like they did in last year's. I don't see why a team would take on a tackle who's coming off a shaky season when they can grab a younger player they can mold. Peters wants the type of money No. 1 overall pick Jake Long got, so why not just draft one yourself and pay him less? And, believe it or not, teams will look at where a player was drafted when considering trades. Even though Peters is a two-time Pro Bowler, he was an undrafted, converted tight end. Trade partners aren't going to bend over backwards to reward the Bills and take a headache off their hands at the same time. But it takes only one team to really, really want a player. Maybe the Bills will get a first-round pick for Peters, but he isn't worth it. And that's an opinion based on talking to people who happen to make trades and hammer out contracts for a living. That makes a great deal of sense -- thanks. If you have a choice between someone with both baggage and mileage who wants a ton of money as opposed to this year's Ryan Clady (for example), who would you take? I'd take Clady if given the choice - he's locked up for a number of years at a reasonable cost (more reasonable than what Peters wants) and is both younger and healther. Also, the point about not rewarding the Bills makes sense too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nucci Posted March 21, 2009 Share Posted March 21, 2009 The Bills aren't going to carry all these WRs into the season, so you have to figure they'd sooner trade Parrish and get something for him as opposed to just releasing Jenkins. It makes sense, he has value and the Bills FO must be high on Hardy and Johnson as long-term solutions. Would you keep Jenkins over Parrish? If so, why? Who is the more productive player? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paup 1995MVP Posted March 21, 2009 Share Posted March 21, 2009 Mcgee won't be returning kicks much longer, he is getting too old to do it, and thats one reason why McKelvin was brought in. McKelvin won't be returning Kicks, Punts, and play CB What has Fred Jackson done as a return man that would make you think that the Bills should make him a full time guy? Trading Parrish, who is one of the top returners in the league, should not be shopped unless they are getting something big in return, not just some mid to late draft pick. He is too valuable on ST's to just give away because the bills signed TO for one year. Have you watched Fred Jackson return punts and kickoffs? EVERY TIME he touches the ball he makes people miss and gets a sizable return. I suggest you open your eyes when we are receiving a punt or kickoff. He definitely can make things happen on a regular basis. We should be able to get a third for Roscoe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Quint Posted March 21, 2009 Share Posted March 21, 2009 Mcgee won't be returning kicks much longer, he is getting too old to do it, and thats one reason why McKelvin was brought in. McKelvin won't be returning Kicks, Punts, and play CB What has Fred Jackson done as a return man that would make you think that the Bills should make him a full time guy? Trading Parrish, who is one of the top returners in the league, should not be shopped unless they are getting something big in return, not just some mid to late draft pick. He is too valuable on ST's to just give away because the bills signed TO for one year. Averaged 16.5 yds/ punt return on 7 returns this season. Not a very proven guy, but there's no doubt that he's good with the ball in his hands. Plus we've got McKelvin in case Jackson gets hurt or needs a breather, especially in the first few games if Marshawn is suspended. Bobby April has proven that it doesn't matter who is back there, we're going to have a good to excellent special teams unit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robkmil Posted March 21, 2009 Share Posted March 21, 2009 I doubt McKelvin is going to return punts, kicks, and start at CB. Freddy Jackson did well returning punts when given the opportunity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted March 21, 2009 Share Posted March 21, 2009 Yeah, you're probably right. My sources don't know football. They just work for NFL teams and stuff. What I tried to express in my chat was that I don't personally think Peters is worth a first-round pick when a team can use that pick to draft a franchise tackle because a few exist in this year's draft just like they did in last year's. I don't see why a team would take on a tackle who's coming off a shaky season when they can grab a younger player they can mold. Peters wants the type of money No. 1 overall pick Jake Long got, so why not just draft one yourself and pay him less? And, believe it or not, teams will look at where a player was drafted when considering trades. Even though Peters is a two-time Pro Bowler, he was an undrafted, converted tight end. Trade partners aren't going to bend over backwards to reward the Bills and take a headache off their hands at the same time. But it takes only one team to really, really want a player. Maybe the Bills will get a first-round pick for Peters, but he isn't worth it. And that's an opinion based on talking to people who happen to make trades and hammer out contracts for a living. To clarify my original question: Tim, I was in no way taking a shot at you, your work, or your sources. I understood that your chat expressed your opinion of Peters trade value, and as such I was only questioning that anyone's opinion on these things is unquestionable as was sort of implied. For example, I have no doubt that John Clayton, Chris Mortenson, etc. have many, many NFL sources and they absolutely do get story breaking leads at times. Yet they are human and far for perfect and their opinions are not always correct. The question I posed was perhaps a subtle point: it is not simply a matter of who you know -- it is about who you know and what he/she is willing to divulge. Thank you for taking the time to chat with the fans here. I respect your opinion and enjoy your articles and posts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted March 21, 2009 Share Posted March 21, 2009 Bobby April has proven that it doesn't matter who is back there, we're going to have a good to excellent special teams unit. That's the kind of thinking that caused a rift in St. Louis. April very much cares who is on his squad, and requires real talent to make it go. If the Bills start short-shrifting ST, I would expect April to find another team, in short order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dog14787 Posted March 21, 2009 Share Posted March 21, 2009 Let's put it this way. Parrish averaged 15+ yards a return last year. For those not paying attention, Roscoe Parrish is the #1 PR of all time in the history of the NFL. The fact that he is back there, considering his average combined with all the punts that are short or OB because the other team doesnt want to punt the ball to Roscoe Parrish means an additional 30 yards a game. If you added 30 yards a game to a RB because of Roscoe Parrish, suddenly a 1000 yard rusher becomes a 1480 yard rusher. An 800 yard rusher becomes a 1180 yard rusher. And that has nothing to do with what he can do as a WR which is woefully underutilized by the Bills staff. I would like to think Bobby April's opinion would be included on any trade talks concerning Roscoe Parish. Naww, that little rascal isn't getting away that easily Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted March 21, 2009 Share Posted March 21, 2009 Would you keep Jenkins over Parrish? If so, why? Who is the more productive player? I hear what your saying, but that is a misguided argument. Of course Parrish has more value to a team than Jenkins does, and of course Parrish has been more valuable. But that is not the argument. Would you agree that Lee Evans, T.O and Josh Reed have been more productive and a good chance that they are going to be the 1,2 and slot receiver? Not to mention that you have Hardy and Johnson waiting in the wings. So really where does that leave Parrish as a receiver? He is the odd man out. So basically he is getting payed more than $2 Million a year to be our punt return. Mcgee can still return kick offs, right? I hope you dont have one of those silly views like some others that say he is too old to do that. So McKelvin could be an option as a punt returner right? after all he did have 7 punt return TD's in college, that is what he was more known for, more so than his kick return.s Even if you didn't have McKelvin returning punts, Freddy Jackson with a 16.7 yard average showed that he can do the job right? So my question to you is, since he has little value as a Wide Receiver, specially with the signing of T.O, and a more than capable punt return options in Jackson and McKelvin, Is he worth more than $2 Million a year for us? Also, wouldn't he be best served for us, now that we don't have a big need for him as traid bait? It just seems logical to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HereComesTheReignAgain Posted March 21, 2009 Share Posted March 21, 2009 I doubt McKelvin is going to return punts, kicks, and start at CB. The opponent will only be kicking off once per game this season! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uticaclub Posted March 21, 2009 Share Posted March 21, 2009 remember the extension we gave him, pretty much untradeable for a punt returner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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