Ozymandius Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 Chris Ellis - (C- ) (6'4", 263, 4.71) I think this says it all. Charged with obstructing an officer in late September 2006 and Virginia Tech suspended him for the Georgia Tech game as a result. Underwent shoulder surgery to repair torn labrum in right shoulder in 2003, slowed by shoulder injury during 2006 season, he missed 2007 spring practices after undergoing shoulder surgery and his durability is a concern. This kid has bust written all over him. He might be another Steve Entman who had a lot of talent but was out of league quickly due to injuries. At best he projects as a situational pass rusher and I think more should be expected of a 3rd round pick. Linkage Actually, an effective situational pass rusher would be well worth a 3rd round pick. Want to get off the field on 3rd downs? Get a good pass rush. In actuality, Ellis played the run well enough in college (especially backside pursuit) to at least hope that he could one day be a starter even. Derek Fine - (A+) (6'2", 251, 4.849) 'Nuff said. This is the FB they need. Except that the Bills picture him as a TE. http://www.buffalobills.com/blog/index.jsp?post_id=3384 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steely Dan Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 How about subtracting KC's best player, which is how they got those extra picks and seemed to have such a good draft. If we would have traded Jason Peters we could have had a better looking draft on paper, too. I think you've hit on something here. We could trade our best 2 players each year and get some great draft picks. That way we could win the draft every year! Actually, an effective situational pass rusher would be well worth a 3rd round pick. Want to get off the field on 3rd downs? Get a good pass rush. In actuality, Ellis played the run well enough in college (especially backside pursuit) to at least hope that he could one day be a starter even. Except that the Bills picture him as a TE. http://www.buffalobills.com/blog/index.jsp?post_id=3384 I disagree. The third round should pull out a starter or a guy eventually capable of becoming a starter. My main concern with him is his injury problems. I'll bet dollars to donuts that he has a shoulder injury this year. Well that changes the grade then. They already have an above average blocking TE that size on the roster. I highly doubt this guy can supplant Royal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obie_wan Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 I wouldn't say it's HUGE when you have Bell who can play LT I really hope that front office does not think that a 7th round project is the answer THIS year at LT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozymandius Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 I gave it a B. Some of the picks people have an issue with, I actually like. - I like Chris Ellis, as I thought we needed to add a passrush prospect. - Even though Fine is white, he has some upside as he performed well at the combine in quickness drills. He was a team captain and good intangibles guy. - I like Corner because our zone scheme could use some guys with good hands and ball skills. I think Cover 2 teams should use mid-round picks like this for their corners, and I would've been okay even if he were the only corner we drafted. - Omon could be a steal. I like getting players who thoroughly dominated and might be underrated because of weak competition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozymandius Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 About Omon, I also subscribe to the theory that if a player has a long youtube video, he must have some talent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 I really hope that front office does not think that a 7th round project is the answer THIS year at LT. no, they probably think the guy they have groomed for 3 years and re-signed to a contract is their answer at LT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Miner Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 I'm really struggling to see how this was a good draft for the Bills. We start off by picking an undersized returner that played against weaker competition in college who we HOPE will be able to come in and replace a first year starter by injury in Greer. Next we draft a tall receiver with decent speed who runs poor routes and has trouble getting off the line. Two important areas for a receiver IMO. Then we draft a walking suspension at DE instead of addressing a serious area of concern at TE. Then we draft another DB who is a project, instead of addressing a serious issue of concern at TE. The we draft a slew of ST'ers and future practice squad players, and probably some who will never make it that far. We went into the draft with glaring holes at WR, TE, , CB, C, backup O-line, backup D-line, and backup LB. We tried to address 2 out of the first 3, but I'm not sure we really came away with sure things at either position. I'm skeptical our #11 CB will be that much of an improvement over the CB's we already have. It seems like we drafted a McGee clone. I'm very skeptical that more than 1 or two of these guys will be productive starters for the Bills in 3 years. My gut feeling is the the Bills FO dropped the ball in this draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ieatcrayonz Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 I grade it a C. No, a B. No, a CB. That's it. It was a CB draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UticaBill Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 Some questionable choices considering the needs and stated wants, but they also did fine some players, so it still makes us better... and deeper.... so I'll give it a B that little stumble in rds 4-5 can make it a B+ or a B- depending how they work out. Hardy will be the #2, but somehow I think Josh Reed will be the better receiver this season at least.... and there is no vertical TE to stretch underneath... but that DEFENSE looks all shiny and new! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 I grade it a C. No, a B. No, a CB. That's it. It was a CB draft. when crayonz is making the most witty posts, you know its draft day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oneonta Buffalo Fan Posted April 28, 2008 Author Share Posted April 28, 2008 I really hope that front office does not think that a 7th round project is the answer THIS year at LT. Peters is the answer at LT remember. Bell would be a good bach up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 They went into the draft with four major needs and filled three of them with very good prospects in the first three rounds. McKelvin and Hardy obviously should start soon, but I feel Ellis also has the talent to develop into a quality starter as well. Unfortunately, I think that the fourth major need, a quality receiving TE who could provide Edwards with a target deep over the middle, was the biggest need on the team and I'm skeptical of the player drafted. They also failed to acquire a secondary need, that of a replacement for Fowler. I like the remaining day 2 picks quite a bit. Failing to fill the biggest need this offseason cuts them down quite a bit. I give them a C for addressing need, A for acquiring talent. Overall, its a B/B+ kind of draft, at least on paper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Jabber Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 I wish we could have picked up one of the top TE's in the draft, but we had other pressing needs, and I feel we accomplished those by picking up McKelvin & Hardy. We needed help in the red zone, and having a 6'6" WR to throw to will definitely help out. I still think Schoumann has potential, and would like to see more of him. If Robert Royal can't pull it together this year, then I would like to see him out of here. I'm glad we picked up a DE in the 3rd round, I haven't been thrilled with Kelsay so hopefully he'll have some competition now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKC Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 I would have liked to see a higher TE taken....but other then that I thought we drafted very well. It remains a hole- and I think there's plenty of evidence that we won't get to the top before we add a talented TE- but we would not be realistic expecting to be a dangerous playoff team this year. Overall I'd say that #1 we didn't fall for making the terrible error that drafting a #11 WR would have been, and we will improve our third down defense by sitting down the worst of our 07 corners one way or another on that crucial down. Help at CB will end up giving our pass rush package that extra half second that disrupts the opposition, and that leaves us crossing our fingers that our thinnest roster spots outside of TE (OL/S/DT) don't suffer a key injury. We got a little better in FA, and we got a little better over the weekend. A healthy season could give us some promising progress against a very weak schedule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 It remains a hole- and I think there's plenty of evidence that we won't get to the top before we add a talented TE- but we would not be realistic expecting to be a dangerous playoff team this year. Overall I'd say that #1 we didn't fall for making the terrible error that drafting a #11 WR would have been, and we will improve our third down defense by sitting down the worst of our 07 corners one way or another on that crucial down. Help at CB will end up giving our pass rush package that extra half second that disrupts the opposition, and that leaves us crossing our fingers that our thinnest roster spots outside of TE (OL/S/DT) don't suffer a key injury. We got a little better in FA, and we got a little better over the weekend. A healthy season could give us some promising progress against a very weak schedule. I have pretty much the same view...especially the part about a healthy season. The day one picks should be immediate upgrades, and I'm particularly happy about getting Hardy. Ellis should help the pass rush rotation and the ST should be better. But the whole house of cards could collapse if we get hit with the injury bug on the O-line. Dr. Cappuccino better have a few more miracles up his sleeve. 'A' for day one, 'C-" for day two... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horus Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 I'm really struggling to see how this was a good draft for the Bills. We start off by picking an undersized returner that played against weaker competition in college who we HOPE will be able to come in and replace a first year starter by injury in Greer. Next we draft a tall receiver with decent speed who runs poor routes and has trouble getting off the line. Two important areas for a receiver IMO. Then we draft a walking suspension at DE instead of addressing a serious area of concern at TE. Then we draft another DB who is a project, instead of addressing a serious issue of concern at TE. The we draft a slew of ST'ers and future practice squad players, and probably some who will never make it that far. We went into the draft with glaring holes at WR, TE, , CB, C, backup O-line, backup D-line, and backup LB. We tried to address 2 out of the first 3, but I'm not sure we really came away with sure things at either position. I'm skeptical our #11 CB will be that much of an improvement over the CB's we already have. It seems like we drafted a McGee clone. I'm very skeptical that more than 1 or two of these guys will be productive starters for the Bills in 3 years. My gut feeling is the the Bills FO dropped the ball in this draft. They went into the draft with four major needs and filled three of them with very good prospects in the first three rounds. McKelvin and Hardy obviously should start soon, but I feel Ellis also has the talent to develop into a quality starter as well. Unfortunately, I think that the fourth major need, a quality receiving TE who could provide Edwards with a target deep over the middle, was the biggest need on the team and I'm skeptical of the player drafted. They also failed to acquire a secondary need, that of a replacement for Fowler. I like the remaining day 2 picks quite a bit. Failing to fill the biggest need this offseason cuts them down quite a bit. I give them a C for addressing need, A for acquiring talent. Overall, its a B/B+ kind of draft, at least on paper. see Im not the only one that thought this way..I might have over-reacted..no I say I did over-react...I would have graded this much higher if they had just taken Rucker or Finley in the 3rd...I think its just because Ive been waiting for years for Buffalo to take a quality TE and they keep letting me down..I figured this would be my year...lol I change my grade to a B+/A- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiderweb Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 Those of you who say we didnt need DB's after picking McKelvin......obviously Jauron wants bodies so he can go into camp/preaseason, then come out with the best defensive backfield he can possibly field.... Bottom Line we got beat on to many 3rd and longs....and we needed to sure up our secondary... with McKelvin and Corner we now have enough there to come outta camp with a very solid secondary.... Most of the issues the Bills had with third and long (obvious passing downs) was the frustrating lack of a decent pass rush. As it's been already said many times, check out the Giants as to what an effective pass rush can do for you. It seems that even though the Bills have had one of the All-Time great pass rushers (BRUUUUUCE!), it seems the Bills still don't give this part of the game anywhere near enough attention. Nothing beats third and long like a ack by the Bills "D". Pickings were slim at DE, but I did have hope..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steely Dan Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 when crayonz is making the most witty posts, you know its draft day Did you actually read that? Peters is the answer at LT remember. Bell would be a good bach up. I think he'd be a better Mozart up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
In space no one can hear Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 Draft Grade for Buffalo? First Day = A Second Day = F Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oneonta Buffalo Fan Posted April 28, 2008 Author Share Posted April 28, 2008 Draft Grade for Buffalo? First Day = A Second Day = F I was not an F today. We got a lot of depth now and we basically rebuilt our special teams which some of you see to forget is one of our units. C at worst. I'd say solid B. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozymandius Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 see Im not the only one that thought this way..I might have over-reacted..no I say I did over-react...I would have graded this much higher if they had just taken Rucker or Finley in the 4th...I think its just because Ive been waiting for years for Buffalo to take a quality TE and they keep letting me down..I figured this would be my year...lol I change my grade to a B+/A- Well, they did take Fine in the fourth. There's no reason to believe Rucker or Finley are any better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oneonta Buffalo Fan Posted April 28, 2008 Author Share Posted April 28, 2008 VOTE FOR THE BILLS!! http://espn.go.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
In space no one can hear Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 I was not an F today. We got a lot of depth now and we basically rebuilt our special teams which some of you see to forget is one of our units. C at worst. I'd say solid B. My opinion has only been solidified knowing that you, Mr. Lobotomy , disagrees with it. Carry on............ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oneonta Buffalo Fan Posted April 28, 2008 Author Share Posted April 28, 2008 My opinion has only been solidified knowing that you, Mr. Lobotomy , disagrees with it. Carry on............ I know I'm not the only one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 no, they probably think the guy they have groomed for 3 years and re-signed to a contract is their answer at LT, as long as he stays healthy Fixed. Goodnight, Johnboy.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExWNYer Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 I think instant evaluations of drafts are fruitless, but who were the four trolls who graded it an 'F'??? Seriously. Brilliant analysis. McKelvin & Hardy alone would prevent your conclusion. Two top-end players who fill immediate needs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Miner Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 I think instant evaluations of drafts are fruitless, but who were the four trolls who graded it an 'F'??? Seriously. Brilliant analysis. McKelvin & Hardy alone would prevent your conclusion. Two top-end players who fill immediate needs. I have trouble calling either of those two "top-end". I didn't give this an F, but I didn't give it an A either. Do they fill immediate needs? I hope so. I wasn't all that excited about any of the WR or CB's in this draft personally. So to me, getting the best of the class doesn't mean a whole lot. I hope I'm wrong and they turn out to be great, but we'll see. The CB we drafted to me looks an awful lot like what's already on the team, and the WR we drafted hopefully puts in a lot of work here in the preseason, because I think he has a whole lot to learn to become a good pro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 see Im not the only one that thought this way..I might have over-reacted..no I say I did over-react...I would have graded this much higher if they had just taken Rucker or Finley in the 3rd...I think its just because Ive been waiting for years for Buffalo to take a quality TE and they keep letting me down..I figured this would be my year...lol I change my grade to a B+/A- Trust me, you don't want to know what I think of the overall direction of this offseason with so much concentration on one phase of a team that was hideous in two. While I really like the guys they added in the draft as individual players, as well as those they picked up last month, I'm far from convinced that the sum of these additions is going to make a significant difference in terms of wins and losses in '08. I hope I'm wrong about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deep2evans Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 We start off by picking an undersized returner that played against weaker competition in college who we HOPE will be able to come in and replace a first year starter by injury in Greer. I'd just like to point out that Ware and Umenyiora were the last 2 defenders to come from Troy, so that argument seems to hold very little weight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HurlyBurly51 Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 Peters is the answer at LT remember. Bell would be a good bach up. Bell will not be ready for at least 2-3 years, if at all, hence a development prospect. Dude bench presssed 225 9 times - not good for an OT to say the least! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HurlyBurly51 Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 It remains a hole- and I think there's plenty of evidence that we won't get to the top before we add a talented TE- but we would not be realistic expecting to be a dangerous playoff team this year. I'm hoping Royal will be good enough for '08, and maybe Courtney Anderson surprises us. I was not happy to see Cleveland jump up to grab Rucker. If this draft has one nitpick, that would be mine. We should've been more aggressive to ensure we landed that need at that point in the draft. But day one ensured us no worse than a grade of B IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tcali Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 A. This was a great draft. I know some of you were critical of our second day but we got some serious depth now AND we basically rebuilt our special teams. Not only that we addressed our key issues and we have some seriously talented players now. I can care less if ESPN (not including Chris Berman) give us a low grade, this was a great draft and I can't wait for the season! I would rate this draft an A....not because we got what we wanted ideally(which was a passrushing stud)...but because we got the best players we could for what was available. The stud D linemen were gone by our pick....and the best CB avaailable was out there. So smart move there. And we didnt pull the potential bonehead move of the year by drafting a WR early on....phewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww. Ellis at DE...how he developes could go a long way into showing how well the Bills do this year.---But even if he doesnt develope that well we have set ourselves up nicely for 09 by plugguning most of the non DE holes--so that we can heavily focus on DE for 09.--Unless of course Trent still plays like a wuss...then we are screwed cuz its back to the QB drawing board then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEAST MODE BABY! Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 We start off by picking an undersized returner that played against weaker competition in college who we HOPE will be able to come in and replace a first year starter by injury in Greer. Troy played 3 SEC teams this year including Georgia and they also played Oklahoma State. The most McKelvin gave up to an individual receiver in 2008 was 30 yards...TOTAL. Last year he held Calvin Johnson to 2 catches for 9 yards. People may not like our draft this year, but please stop with the "weak competition" red herring with regards to McKelvin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 Troy played 3 SEC teams this year including Georgia and they also played Oklahoma State. The most McKelvin gave up to an individual receiver in 2008 was 30 yards...TOTAL. Last year he held Calvin Johnson to 2 catches for 9 yards. People may not like our draft this year, but please stop with the "weak competition" red herring with regards to McKelvin. no doubt. DeMarcus Ware and Osi on the Giants both have ripped in the NFL- so Troy State puts out some pretty good NFLers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 I was not happy to see Cleveland jump up to grab Rucker. If this draft has one nitpick, that would be mine. We should've been more aggressive to ensure we landed that need at that point in the draft. But day one ensured us no worse than a grade of B IMHO. I agree. They should have been more aggressive in the 3rd and 4th rounds and used their extra picks to jump up and get guys who they appear to have been targeting--but lost by standing pat, which I suppose is the basis for this comment: “Some of it broke very well. Some of it we wished it would have broken differently.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 I agree. They should have been more aggressive in the 3rd and 4th rounds and used their extra picks to jump up and get guys who they appear to have been targeting--but lost by standing pat, which I suppose is the basis for this comment: “Some of it broke very well. Some of it we wished it would have broken differently.” Yeah, when I heard that comment, it definitely made me think they had a TE targeted higher than they actually picked one. You certainly can't complain with how they filled the other three major needs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 If the question is asked in a light-hearted way and the grades given are for fun ONLY (and I find that hard to believe given the vitriol around here) then by all means have some fun folks. However, if the question is asked in all seriousness, then ANYONE who DOESN'T grade this draft as INCOMPLETE doesn't know the first thing about the process. Sorry if that's harsh for some of the thinner-skinned among us but it's the truth. I don't mean to offend. GO BILLS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabattBlue Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 Bottom line...The Bills can't afford to "miss" on picks in the 1st 3 rounds as they continue to struggle with breaking out of this 10 year period of mediocrity. If McKelvin & Hardy turn out to be productive starters and Ellis can become an effective situational pass rusher(at the very least),the draft should be considered a success. It's icing on the cake if any of the remaining picks turn out to be anything more than career backups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramius Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 We start off by picking an undersized returner that played against weaker competition in college who we HOPE will be able to come in and replace a first year starter by injury in Greer. Lets see... 2006 Troy football schedule... FSU, Ga Tech, Nebraska 2007 Troy football schedule... Arkansas, Florida, Okla. St., Georgia yup, so much for your asinine "weaker competition" theory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 Lets see... 2006 Troy football schedule... FSU, Ga Tech, Nebraska 2007 Troy football schedule... Arkansas, Florida, Okla. St., Georgia yup, so much for your asinine "weaker competition" theory. And look at what he did against the competition in those 7 games! Nine yards given up to Calvin Johnson? When he was just KILLING Div I competition all that year? Now I haven't seen any tape from that game against Ga Tech and I'd be interested to see if it was a case of Tech just running all over them and not having to throw. And if that's not the case I'd like to see how Troy St. rotated their coverage to take him out of the game. But if McKelvin is mostly responsible for Johnson's numbers that day I just don't think you can ignore that. GO BILLS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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